dont talk about serving your country . there are several hundered thousand pakistanis living abroad not serving the contry. these thug/bandit/plunder audit firms (according to you) are only in pakistan.
well honestly i think its the government the most to blame than ACCA or ICAEW for allowing these 2 bodies to conduct their porgrammes in pakistan. y have they been allowed to operate in pakistan in the first place??? to dupe students???? if students r being duped then who is to blame?? these organisations or those who have allowed these organisations to provide courses
when u already have ICAP??
you talk of future of accountancy in a country with a population of 172,800,000 and only 4000 ca's serving. this figure includes both ca's working inside and oustide pakistan.
ask that HR person whether u will get a job if u further do CA(icap) or ICAEW. better you and other ACCA students like u should write to ACCA and complain about the "sleepy" management of ACCA in Pakistan. they dont seem to be doing their job and are ofcourse drawing salaries.
if u want to serve the country better then join the army. its the best way to serve pakistan right now. the army needs more recruits than ever before.
Assalam-o-Aliqum!
[p]Mroneflower
I dont know what is your goal for blamming icap.
I think when people jealous from some one for some reason if
one have alot of money a big palace having hot wife like katrina kaif having boing for forign business tours of vactionla tours having limousine car of any well known manufaturer like mercedes,rolls royce,cheverlet,BMW and a helicopter for (like) northern areas pakistan but icapians i am sure thta none of icapian have nothing i mention above so why are you so jealous from icapian and icap.
[p]No.2 your behaviour and which you write in your post show that icap is one of the best accountancy body.
I dont know about your mentle situation so i cant say some thing to you
Regards choclatey
Muhammad Amir
My first cousine qualified ACA from ICAEW in 1992 and when he came back to Pakistan his starting salary was 70,000 plus car in 1992-93. My two friends qualified ACCA from London and worked only one or one and half yr in London when they went back to Pakistan in 2004-2005 one got 70,000 with car and second got 80,000 with car.
My broter who did MBA from Pakistan he never studied out of Pakistan his starting salary was 35,000 in mobolink. Mobolink finance director who is ICAEW member is getting 22 lac plus car a month. Yes he has so many yrs of experience but still he is getting this amount.
My one friend in CSS and works in police last time when I went to Pakistan he gave me respect only becuase I am qualiied Chartered Accontant(ACCA).
You said that I(khalid) will not get job in Pakistan. You are wrong and i kinow my market in Pakistan. I do not know why you are saying all this. May be audit firms does not pay more, actually this is problem with asian employers in audit firms. Even in London asian audit firms do same and that is why they cannot find employee,people work in asain firms in London for couple of months and leave.
Y you want to work in audit firm in Pakistan. In Pakistan People say that if you have 3 to 4 yrs audit experience then in industry you will get much more after having audit firm experience for 3 to 4 yrs.
I have not understood this logic, means you work for small money in audit firm in HOPE you will get better money in industry later. Dear if you start working in industry from day one then they will pay you good money from day one. Suppose you join industry from day one and they pay you say 30,000 per month (they will pay you this amount for sure) and after having 3 yrs experience your salary will be same what qualified accountant with 3 yrs audit experience will get in industry.
I am sorry to say but audit firms partners in Pakistan are misguiding new students so that they get cheap labour. If ACCA and ICAEW do not have value then ICAP is nothing.
ICAP students and members also get peanunts in audit firms in Pakistan. ICAP is thinking to authorised firms in industry to train CA students if it will happen then you will see Aidit firms position in Pakistan. Remember ICAP must do it as ICAEW has alraedy done it and everyone knows ICAP blindly follow ICAEW.
Try to understand what is going on in Pakistan, ICAEW and ICAP signed MOU recently. ICAEW signed it cause it wants to increase its membership and ICAP signed it for two reasons. First ICAP wants to show that it has voice in world which is not correct cause you this degarding MOU, secondly ICAP wants to arrange cheap labour (newly qualiied ACA) for FCAs.
You said <b>I recently met with an HR personnel of one of the Big 4 firms and he really confused me about the future of accountancy and for this reason now I am deciding to leave accountancy forever.</b>
Remember industry cannot be run without accountant and if accountancy proession does not have future in Pakistan means in future there will be no banks, mills etc in Pakistan that is what you want to say. If we take HR personnel statement then its means ICAP member will also not have future in Pakistan, there will be no audit firms in Pakistan (as audit firms only depends on industry) and eventually this HR personnel will also loose his job, that is what he is saying. they are liars.
Govt of Pakistan has set min wage of 6,000 which is for those with NIL qualiication, if audit firms are giving this amount to qualified accoutant then I have nothing to say. Remember they first discourage new accountant and say audit firm experience is must then they pay this amount. They do same thing with ICAP people. Try to understand game. Actually ICAP students and newly qualified accountants are also victim of this.
Do not worry about people and ICAP members in Pakistan they are worried about their own future. Do not worry about them it is normal policy of Pakistani natioanl.
Do not worry its just shows dark future of our nation. My 4 friends who are ACCA and working in London got UK Indinite stay and I do not think they will come back to Pakistan. My position is diferent as my mother wants me back, but I can also do same. If my these 4 friends will not come back to Pakistan then who will ber loser, obviosuly Pakistan and its economy because of policies.
I persoanlly know ACCA affliciate who did ACCA in pakistan and got 35,000 in first job in Habib bank.Do not worry about them they are liar. Go and check thread <b>ICAP HUMILATING ITSEFL </b> started by me and see ICAP people lies. Rabia can also tell you how much ICAP and its people lies.
Remember there are only 700 ACCA members and 11,000 aliciate in Pakistan.
Ask ICAP newly qualified how much he is getting in audit firm.
I have already said in <b>ICAP HUMILATING ITSEFL</b> thread that ICAEW brand in Pakistan will be diluted cause ICAEW has started condecting its exams in Pakistan. My this prediction is proving correct like what HR personnel in BIG 4 told you.
WE do have class system in our society and status-co will do everything to maintain this class system.
Click on link below and you will find even ICAP newly qualified accountant are looking jobs outside Pakistan.
http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=6512
Last thing after passing ACCA all 14 papers one does not become ACCA qualiied, to be ACCA qualified one need to pass all ACCA examinations plus need to have three yrs experience. Same is true or ICAEW and ICAP.
My friend its fight of maintaining class system in Pakistan.
If you go for CSS (my father was CSS and now retired) then you will have to take money out of poor people pocket and you will not have any value outside Pakistan unless Govt sponsor you outside Pakistan. This is the reason my father did not let me to do CSS. Remember nowadys its a world of Muti-national companies. Anyway you will understand these things after sometime and having experience.
ICAP is just loosing its grip in Pakistani market and that is why they even started propaganda against ICAEW and ACCA with more power.
Only in UAE there are about 31,000 ACCA members are working, in UK there are about 60,000 ACCA members, about 120,000 ICAEW members, in USA there are about 350,000 CPA even in India there are about 130,000 members o ICAI(India) and there are still jobs there for accountant.(I am not saying nowadays as its credit crisis, but situation will be alright in a yr). And if 4000 ICAP members, 3000 ICMA members and 700 ACCA members are too much in Pakistani economy, then you can guess condition of this economy.
In the absence of eletricity, gas etc how one can run industry and if no industry no audit firms. PIA has been loss making organisation.
Khalid
Dear choclatey
Muhammad Amir does not say HR personnel told him about ACCA future in Pakistan. HR personnel sad to him that Accountancy proession future in Pakistan is dark. ICAP is included in accountancy profession in Pakistan.
When we have people like choclatey in our socity how can we rise. One more this, ICAP students normally belongs to poor class that is why 6,000 salary is enough for them where ACCA students in Pakistan alraedy got money that is why 6000 is nothing for them. I never wanted to mention this thing, but ICAP people are forcing me to mention all things about them.
I request all ICAP people please do not force me more. PLEASE
Khalid
Dear mary
I have no idea what exemption (if any) will be given to someone who has passed module d of icap. You need to check with ICAEW.
Khalid
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rabia-k</i>
<br />minhas in karachie there are around 17 firms providing ICAEW training . please visit this link for the addresses
http//www.icaewfirms.co.uk/directoryresults.asp?searchtype=location_int&firmcountry_int=105&firmtown_int=2676&submit=Search
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Rabia
In another thraed minhas said as ACCA can be completed in 3yrs that is why it is useless and easy. I do not know what kind of advise can be given to these people.
by the way PHD from MIT can be completed in 2 yrs. ALLAH helps this nation.
Khalid
I have also not understood one thing, that now propaganda against ICAEW, ICAEW is ully recognised by ICAP. Is ICAP plan to reduce ICAEW exemptions in future.
Khalid
Dear mroneflower
By the way what and where is MIT? Also, what is this PhD thing? Could you please let us know? I am just kidding... Keep trying...
My dear have you ever heard an Urdu proverb, "naqqar khanay main tooti (parrot) ki awaz". You are simply breaking your head with "janoo germans". Dear, its a shell created by people who have vested interests in accounting profession in Pakistan. They are more of a pressure group than a professional association. Their self interests are more important then free competition in economy. They have worked hard to create smoke screens/ falacies through aggresive marketing or propaganda in last 45 years. Now you want to shake them and show them mirror? There, people guage professional qualifications through number of years to complete. I can simply smile...
4000 unparallels are doing accounting job for country of 160 million. Thats why people laugh at the state of our nation.
Please ignore my unrelated comments.
Regards
@ Miss Rabia, you have over reacted on my post, truth is always bitter. Its very easy to write posts and analyze the situation of country like Pakistan from UAE while sitting in comfortable chair but those who live here in Pakistan and have some market exposure are not jugglers. It is very easy to blame motherland Pakistan but very difficult to serve it from the depth of your heart. I don't know who told you that 4000 CAs are not enough for 172,800,000 population. Do you know about the current situation of country? Its easy to write posts while sitting in UAE but for Pakistanis, the current situation is a real catastrophe. You have raised the issue of SAWAT in this thread, which is totally off the topic.
@ Khalid (aka Moron Flower), This is 2009 neither 92/93 nor 04/05. I am sorry to say that people like you measure everything in terms of currency notes and returns and mind it, it is not easy for everyone to leave his motherland, people and parents. Mr. Khalid, Task oriented people never like to work in Industry, those who really want to develop their skills, they do not even think about Industry or Banks or other financial Institutions, early in their careers. You have created so much hullabaloo but all of your points were UAE, USA and UK oriented. I am not talking about these countries, I have presented the situation for those who want to work and live in Pakistan. By the way, how much commission ICAEW paid to you?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My one friend in CSS and works in police last time when I went to Pakistan he gave me respect only becuase I am qualiied Chartered Accontant(ACCA).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I salute you sir! Pay my regards to your friend
Assalamo Aliqum!
Toronto_boy
dont worry we ignorall your comments
I dont know about any policy of icap to provide ca cource for parrots as you say that "Nakar khanay mai totti ki awaz kon sonta hai"
But i will try to check ACCA GLOBAL site that they offered cources for Parrtos.If icap can provide alowed parrots to join icap then
i am sure to say that 4000 members for 160 million increas.
We beleive in quality not in quantity.That is why the monopoly of CA remains .
regards
choclatey
<font size="6"></font id="size6"><font color="green"></font id="green"><b></b>Listen all mroneflower is a parrot (Totti) so dont mind his comments because parrot say only things which he ratta and he dont understand that what is he saying
Regards
choclatey
<font size="6"><font color="green">Totti chori kao gay</font id="green"></font id="size6">
<font size="6"><font color="maroon">Choclatey</font id="maroon"></font id="size6">
dont mind mroneflower
i dont know y u brought in "serving ure country issue" in the first place the best way to serve ure country is to serve in the army.
u say there is no future for accountancy profession. there is not much of a future for other profesions either.
uae is not that far away from pakistan,i know the current situation is not good , but ofourse not indepth.
u blame acca squarely for ruining ure career and ask others not to join it in pakistan. writing on this forum will not stop students from joining acca in pakistan. so u should do some extra effort. like i said before y have ACCA &ICAEW been allowed in pakistan in the first place.
SWAT was an example that i gave, after seeing whats going on there on media. i am not raising an issue. since u feel its off topic i have removed it from my post.
simply writing on this forum will not stop students from joining ACCA in pakistan. you will have to do a lot more probably take this issue to the national level.
Dear Amir,
I have all my sympathies with what you have faced. I don't wish you to lose your career just for the sake of the words uttered out by some one related to HR. You finally concluded what I was telling you when you were at an early stage. Still, I am least glad to read your words.
Listen buddy, ACCA is not a bad designation. It has cross border acceptance either directly or through MRAs. You know everything has its own attributes. Whenever I spoke, I made it clear that my words are Pakistan specific. You are very right in differentiating Pakistan from elsewhere and focusing on the issues which a middle class person, however efficient he is, has to face. I must place on record that being from middle or poor class is no de-merit and being from elite ones is no merit when we talk about human rights for opportunities. Khalid's comparison of Rs. 6,000 for middle class and elite class itself is representing a very disturbing, humiliating (when we see his other posts) and rigid thought. He says that others are making classes and are following class system. He is habitual of cracking such jokes and alleging the others for the things which he himself is habitual of doing. I have been explaining the three broad categories of ACCA students and Khalid proved that he is from one of such category which I specifically pointed out. I have no doubts now that why he opted ACCA. He has explained his own way.
All human beings are equal and must be respected regardless of whatever they earn and whatever amount is substantial for them. I avoid getting too personal and I also understand that every one could have so many honestly cropped up resources, still I wish to mention that one's own cultivated wealth by whatever means cannot undermine the importance of others, their issues and their preferences. I wish we don't go that deep on this topic.
So Amir,
It's not necessary that you must get a career what you dreamed for at the outset. One has to put in the efforts. One has to sacrifice. The people who are talking to the contrary and against the firms are those who could not face the tough time and escaped on the strength of their wealth. How can they understand or agree to the facts. The sons of beurocrats and army generals can get good jobs even if they are simple B.A. or M.A. They don't need to undergo tough times. We don't have any objection on them as well because we know what they are and how they have been doing the things. I have seen so many such examples, even in my own family, which I should not quote. We cannot compare such half boiled eggs with the general population of our country. This is a fact so no offence should be deduced.
Now what I have to advise you is that, don't get desperate at this early stage. Join the firm if you wish to do so. (I don't say it is a must). I know currency notes are not a big attraction for you. See the market for some time and learn what you could not learn so far for being more focused on academic side. Don't deviate. I once again say, don't deviate. Every new field and every new sector will bring so much sour in it and so much unacceptable. This is a world not the heaven, mind it. I love to face tough times, and feel playing better in such situations. I think you may also have this quality. Keep on doing what you planned for. Join a firm and keep on making the effort. I don't ask to avoid debating with some one but I must tell you that what you have felt or faced is not a matter of concern for them. They can never understand what you are saying more specially they never predicted that one day you will be saying this. Rest assured you don't need to get deviated.
Rabia,
Amir has concluded what I had been pointing out a number of times. You see Amir is doing ACCA and he was the one big opponent of whatever I posted here on this topic. Now you can understand that, specific to Pakistan, there are some issues with ACCA. Mind it, ACCA is not working in positive direction. Your qualified people can only do what Khalid is doing.
Here a man called all forum members as Janoo Germans. I know this is quite easier to utter out USA, Canada stuff when sitting outside Pakistan. Would it be good if any forum member would degrade him? Janoo German's one quality is that he utters out only a few memorized sentences and cannot even understand that world does not come to an end at Canada even if we see it in view of its specialized location on the globe. This is the habit of the people who fly out to consider their-selves superior. They just forgot the way they flew. I don't mean it for any one specifically.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
Muhammad Amir
So you did not study to make money. SO you are saying you did ACCA not to earn money but for some other reasons. Can you kindly disclose your reason. If your motive behind studying ACCA was not money then y r u complaining about 6,000 rupees. You should be happy to work in that amount. Please do not complaint. ICAP students also work in this money.
If you think qualiied people should not work in industry then I have nothing you say. You mentioned you are changing your field. Best of luck in your field. and if you think qualified should not work in industry, then plz do not complaint about money audit firm will give you.
I am not here to persuade anyone that ACCA or ICAEW is good qualification. If you dont like them you are FREE to move ahead. But please do remember there are people who are interested.
You wanted to serve your country so Rabia gave you right advise to join army, but you want to join police so that you can make money.
Anyway i hope you will never work in industry as quality people do not work there. i also hope not to see you again crying about money audit firms pay in Pakistan. So be happy in 6000.
Best of luck.
Khalid