09-16-2009, 08:19 PM
i am not convinced that ALL PAPERS of ICAEW r going to held in pakistan.I can give you the officer nameLAELA who can tell about this issue,she works at emile woolf karachi office.
09-16-2009, 08:19 PM
09-16-2009, 11:42 PM
[D] Aik aur aayaa beizzat hone.
09-17-2009, 12:05 AM
Mazhar
I don't ever 'recommend' any one to do ACCA because in my view it does not yield good results at its own, at least at Pakistan. If I am wrong, simply visit the market (since you are an ACCA) and check the yield. So, this is so simple for you to understand.
Secondly, I don't say ACCA should not go for ICAEW's ACA. Rather, I believe this will enhance their marketability. Rabia has her own views but I don't say ACCA should not go for ICAEW.
Thirdly, the discussion does not raise any question on sufficacy of ICAP's CA. This CA doesn't need another designation for having good returns specially at Pakistan. If you are an ACCA you must be feeling it at this stage. This has been reflected indirectly in your last post as well.
As regards to MRAs, these are always good if entered into on real evaluation basis. This is a plus point for any designation regardless of how good or bad it is at its own. However, illogical MRAs based upon an intent of enhancing the revenues or numbers, in my view, are contributing nothing but to a decrease in quality. We are witnessing it from last four five years.
Having more than one qualifications is not a negative thing. People do it for diversifying their exposure and increasing the acceptability under different set of circumstances. However, this should be taken as a plus point and NOT as a compulsion. In my view currently finding some other designation has some how become a compulsion for ACCAs, at least at Pakistan.
I don't know if dozens of ICAP CAs are rushing for ICAEW's CA. You may be knowing more on this matter. In my view so far a very meager number (may be far far lesser than a general expectation) of ICAP's CAs has opted for ICAEW's three papers. Major reason is that they don't need it as compulsion. I believe such number will increase when MRA will be compatible and logical. Thus to cause reasons for doing so. ICAEW is having discussions for such developments with ICAP people.
The enthusism I discussed is largely found in ACCAs, CIMAs, and fresh students. ICAP's CAs may be interested for qualitative reasons but so far there has been winessed no haste or rush.
If you are talking about any ones who are claiming exemptions and getting registered, mind it, this is merely for saving British Pounds which are currently not chargeable. You will have to check how many will be appearing for exam.
At the end I must advise you to keep the topic to your queries. If you wish to read CA/ACCA debatesn you can study all previous threads. None of your logics will change the situation. If you feel otherwise, you can check market.
Regards,
Kamran.
I don't ever 'recommend' any one to do ACCA because in my view it does not yield good results at its own, at least at Pakistan. If I am wrong, simply visit the market (since you are an ACCA) and check the yield. So, this is so simple for you to understand.
Secondly, I don't say ACCA should not go for ICAEW's ACA. Rather, I believe this will enhance their marketability. Rabia has her own views but I don't say ACCA should not go for ICAEW.
Thirdly, the discussion does not raise any question on sufficacy of ICAP's CA. This CA doesn't need another designation for having good returns specially at Pakistan. If you are an ACCA you must be feeling it at this stage. This has been reflected indirectly in your last post as well.
As regards to MRAs, these are always good if entered into on real evaluation basis. This is a plus point for any designation regardless of how good or bad it is at its own. However, illogical MRAs based upon an intent of enhancing the revenues or numbers, in my view, are contributing nothing but to a decrease in quality. We are witnessing it from last four five years.
Having more than one qualifications is not a negative thing. People do it for diversifying their exposure and increasing the acceptability under different set of circumstances. However, this should be taken as a plus point and NOT as a compulsion. In my view currently finding some other designation has some how become a compulsion for ACCAs, at least at Pakistan.
I don't know if dozens of ICAP CAs are rushing for ICAEW's CA. You may be knowing more on this matter. In my view so far a very meager number (may be far far lesser than a general expectation) of ICAP's CAs has opted for ICAEW's three papers. Major reason is that they don't need it as compulsion. I believe such number will increase when MRA will be compatible and logical. Thus to cause reasons for doing so. ICAEW is having discussions for such developments with ICAP people.
The enthusism I discussed is largely found in ACCAs, CIMAs, and fresh students. ICAP's CAs may be interested for qualitative reasons but so far there has been winessed no haste or rush.
If you are talking about any ones who are claiming exemptions and getting registered, mind it, this is merely for saving British Pounds which are currently not chargeable. You will have to check how many will be appearing for exam.
At the end I must advise you to keep the topic to your queries. If you wish to read CA/ACCA debatesn you can study all previous threads. None of your logics will change the situation. If you feel otherwise, you can check market.
Regards,
Kamran.
09-17-2009, 12:17 AM
Mazhar
If you feel my comments a product of HUT DHARMY, I advise you to develop an isolated understanding based upon closed eyes and keep on feeling pleausre for it.
No body will interfere in having such peace of mind.
It's not my concern, but I know for manys peace of mind has no linkage with their pocket.
Mujahid,
I like many of your posts but would like to request you to avoid negative remarks.
Regards,
Kamran.
If you feel my comments a product of HUT DHARMY, I advise you to develop an isolated understanding based upon closed eyes and keep on feeling pleausre for it.
No body will interfere in having such peace of mind.
It's not my concern, but I know for manys peace of mind has no linkage with their pocket.
Mujahid,
I like many of your posts but would like to request you to avoid negative remarks.
Regards,
Kamran.
09-17-2009, 09:02 AM
good discussion going on here )
Mr.Kamran, i respect you because of the quality thats very clear from your posts.
I know how you always say we should check the market and see for ourselves that our dreams are going down the drain ( ACCA students ). That only stands correct for those who think they will beat the ICAP C.As, that would never ever happen( and i am not talking about expections).
Market i believe is not that bad as long as you dont keep your expectations TOO high, that will hurt. Apart from that, after C.As, i believe its the ACCAs who are doing well, considering ACCA hasnt been around for as long as ICMA or others.
Anyway. You ve been indirectly pointing towards some qualifications as they are harming this profession by MRAs ... yet its pretty clear taht you dont think C.A ICAPs going for C.A ICAEW is the same. That sir, i find a little biased.
I know this is off topic but i would like to know what you think about what i said. I am young, studying and consider myself just above average as far as intellectual is considered so i am open to your views, advices....anything that may help.
thanks.
Mr.Kamran, i respect you because of the quality thats very clear from your posts.
I know how you always say we should check the market and see for ourselves that our dreams are going down the drain ( ACCA students ). That only stands correct for those who think they will beat the ICAP C.As, that would never ever happen( and i am not talking about expections).
Market i believe is not that bad as long as you dont keep your expectations TOO high, that will hurt. Apart from that, after C.As, i believe its the ACCAs who are doing well, considering ACCA hasnt been around for as long as ICMA or others.
Anyway. You ve been indirectly pointing towards some qualifications as they are harming this profession by MRAs ... yet its pretty clear taht you dont think C.A ICAPs going for C.A ICAEW is the same. That sir, i find a little biased.
I know this is off topic but i would like to know what you think about what i said. I am young, studying and consider myself just above average as far as intellectual is considered so i am open to your views, advices....anything that may help.
thanks.
09-17-2009, 09:07 AM
Also, my corporate reporting teacher, ACA ICAP came from Bahrain, works at PWC there...i asked him to tell us about what we could expect in the future (us ACCA students), he told me most of the people working at PWC Bahrain are ACCAs. I know just because its like that in Bahrain, its everywhere in the world, but it just tells you that there are many other places where you stand a good chance to a pursue a great career.
09-17-2009, 10:50 AM
Dear Accite,
I use to say, "I never recommend ACCA". My recommendation is based upon my understandings which can be different from others and can also be fair as well as mis-directed. It neither provides a guarantee nor is a compulsion. You know it is a public forum.
I know many ACCAs who are among the best accountants, are well settled and have, with the passage of time, become a source of inspiration for upcoming professionals.
Here the issue is not of personalities or individual success stories. Rather, we have to consider all categories of students who don't know what seems to have been understood by you.
Every one doing ACCA feels he is doing CA. Families believe and develop same understanding. Parents keep on investing in their "future" and eventually they find the outcome is not what has been predicted. So, ACCA ultimately proves to be quite different for the people who develop wrong expectations.
That's why whoever (in Pakistan) asks me, finds the same reply. "I don't recommend ACCA". Of course decision is not mine in any case.
Now coming to Bahrain's issue. Middle east is and has been the heaven for every one invariably. A friend who was CA INTER (as well as ACCA) and was considered indifferent to his work by two employers with whom he worked could not complete CA and kept on struggling for long eventually went to UAE and is now working as director in a firm of accountants. We know he has no improvement at all. That's why I feel quality is being affected. Firms use to hire cheaper work force with some mentionable designation so they might have been prefering ACCAs at Bahrain. I also am of the view that middle east and UK are good places for ACCAs though not the best. Reasons are enormous in which detail I don't wish to go.
However, my comments for ACCA are mainly focussed on Pakistan's perspective and you will see mentioning of Pakistan every where on all threads in all my posts. Here situation is different, and has to deteriorate further in coming days. I don't feel it is a point yet to be proved.
The ones who appropriately discount the future expectations to have a realistic present value in comparison to CA must be the wise persons and would be on safe side in coming days. This is simply like a realistic assessment made by MBA (finance) or M.Com. Etc. I also feel ACCAs are better when compared to MBAs or M.Com.
As far as MRAs are concerned I am not against them. The days are coming when an International Accountancy Qualification will emerge (I believe it would not be ACCA) and cross border worth would be comparable. I also believe that basis of MRAs can be influenced by a number of factors. However, where MRAs are entered into for merely enhancing the revenues or increase the numbers then nothing will preserve the quality in the longer run.
I have recently seen 3 cases where ACCAs have applied for ICAEW membership on fictitious grounds. They used influence to get the signatures of lead and sub refrences (mentors) about the career development. In the long run this will increase ICAEW numbers and revenues but affect its quality considerably.
As far as ICAP is concerned I personally don't object the contents of MOU with ICAEW although I believe it is again unrealistic. However, I also feel that end of times has not come and things always keep on improving. At least I will not opt for it unless it is made realistic enough. Why I will not do so; because it's not a condition to my career. Why I will ever think to do is simply to enhance the membership base which carries attractions in generality.
Regards,
Kamran.
I use to say, "I never recommend ACCA". My recommendation is based upon my understandings which can be different from others and can also be fair as well as mis-directed. It neither provides a guarantee nor is a compulsion. You know it is a public forum.
I know many ACCAs who are among the best accountants, are well settled and have, with the passage of time, become a source of inspiration for upcoming professionals.
Here the issue is not of personalities or individual success stories. Rather, we have to consider all categories of students who don't know what seems to have been understood by you.
Every one doing ACCA feels he is doing CA. Families believe and develop same understanding. Parents keep on investing in their "future" and eventually they find the outcome is not what has been predicted. So, ACCA ultimately proves to be quite different for the people who develop wrong expectations.
That's why whoever (in Pakistan) asks me, finds the same reply. "I don't recommend ACCA". Of course decision is not mine in any case.
Now coming to Bahrain's issue. Middle east is and has been the heaven for every one invariably. A friend who was CA INTER (as well as ACCA) and was considered indifferent to his work by two employers with whom he worked could not complete CA and kept on struggling for long eventually went to UAE and is now working as director in a firm of accountants. We know he has no improvement at all. That's why I feel quality is being affected. Firms use to hire cheaper work force with some mentionable designation so they might have been prefering ACCAs at Bahrain. I also am of the view that middle east and UK are good places for ACCAs though not the best. Reasons are enormous in which detail I don't wish to go.
However, my comments for ACCA are mainly focussed on Pakistan's perspective and you will see mentioning of Pakistan every where on all threads in all my posts. Here situation is different, and has to deteriorate further in coming days. I don't feel it is a point yet to be proved.
The ones who appropriately discount the future expectations to have a realistic present value in comparison to CA must be the wise persons and would be on safe side in coming days. This is simply like a realistic assessment made by MBA (finance) or M.Com. Etc. I also feel ACCAs are better when compared to MBAs or M.Com.
As far as MRAs are concerned I am not against them. The days are coming when an International Accountancy Qualification will emerge (I believe it would not be ACCA) and cross border worth would be comparable. I also believe that basis of MRAs can be influenced by a number of factors. However, where MRAs are entered into for merely enhancing the revenues or increase the numbers then nothing will preserve the quality in the longer run.
I have recently seen 3 cases where ACCAs have applied for ICAEW membership on fictitious grounds. They used influence to get the signatures of lead and sub refrences (mentors) about the career development. In the long run this will increase ICAEW numbers and revenues but affect its quality considerably.
As far as ICAP is concerned I personally don't object the contents of MOU with ICAEW although I believe it is again unrealistic. However, I also feel that end of times has not come and things always keep on improving. At least I will not opt for it unless it is made realistic enough. Why I will not do so; because it's not a condition to my career. Why I will ever think to do is simply to enhance the membership base which carries attractions in generality.
Regards,
Kamran.
09-17-2009, 12:52 PM
Mr Kamran,you are a good person as for as my observation is concerned,But infact what u r preaching that simply ICAP CA is something and ACCA is just nothing then I will not go with your comments.
Thousands of Pakistani ACCA members,students and AFFILIATES are earning for themselves for their families and for their country on the basis of their ACCA.
They are doing something for the nation whereas what CA of ICAp r doing they are just providing the tax consultancy to the companies and helping them in saving tax(Sorry if my words hurt your feelings)
You will also accept this. What ICAP members r doing for their country except giving it a loss .
Go ahead and talk to Molana Rafie Usmani,He can guide u what is the difference between serving the nation (Which is being done by ACCA students and Members) and what is eating your nation . What is being done by CA`s of ICAP.
Thousands of Pakistani ACCA members,students and AFFILIATES are earning for themselves for their families and for their country on the basis of their ACCA.
They are doing something for the nation whereas what CA of ICAp r doing they are just providing the tax consultancy to the companies and helping them in saving tax(Sorry if my words hurt your feelings)
You will also accept this. What ICAP members r doing for their country except giving it a loss .
Go ahead and talk to Molana Rafie Usmani,He can guide u what is the difference between serving the nation (Which is being done by ACCA students and Members) and what is eating your nation . What is being done by CA`s of ICAP.
09-17-2009, 01:51 PM
Salam,
people phoenix is not replying to e-mails??
so, how am i suppose to conform whether they offer all the papers of ACA??
anyone?any suggestion?
do reply!!
people phoenix is not replying to e-mails??
so, how am i suppose to conform whether they offer all the papers of ACA??
anyone?any suggestion?
do reply!!
09-17-2009, 02:47 PM
dear professionals/students i want some guidence.....
me doing MBA-finance(3rd sem) from a recognised university having AVG ranking in market.... my story is this that in 2005 i started doing CA from skans isbd i gave 3 attemps at that time i was able to pass only 2 papers of module A and 1 of B..... seeing that i left it and started doing Bcom got 65% in B com and now doing MBA...
my Age is 22 currently... i am missing that time alot though MBA is good degree but CA is CA... its toughness and hardwork is still helping me its 3 years now... i wana go back in orignal professional field... my quesition is that what u guys suggest me... cuz dil nai manta MBA mae 3.7+ CGPA hey per u know i cannot be like MBAs cuz i ve passed time with CA students and my attitude dos't match with MBAs me just like a bolt from the blue here... plz help me i also wana go abroad maybe UAE etc to get job... from where i need to start after doing MBA. cuz i have experience of CA toughness .... somebody told me about CFA i just want a genuin guidence beliving that u ppl are intact with professionals can guide me better ... wating u ur response...( know about ICMA that it gives examptions but wana do something lively in market)
regards
ATIF
me doing MBA-finance(3rd sem) from a recognised university having AVG ranking in market.... my story is this that in 2005 i started doing CA from skans isbd i gave 3 attemps at that time i was able to pass only 2 papers of module A and 1 of B..... seeing that i left it and started doing Bcom got 65% in B com and now doing MBA...
my Age is 22 currently... i am missing that time alot though MBA is good degree but CA is CA... its toughness and hardwork is still helping me its 3 years now... i wana go back in orignal professional field... my quesition is that what u guys suggest me... cuz dil nai manta MBA mae 3.7+ CGPA hey per u know i cannot be like MBAs cuz i ve passed time with CA students and my attitude dos't match with MBAs me just like a bolt from the blue here... plz help me i also wana go abroad maybe UAE etc to get job... from where i need to start after doing MBA. cuz i have experience of CA toughness .... somebody told me about CFA i just want a genuin guidence beliving that u ppl are intact with professionals can guide me better ... wating u ur response...( know about ICMA that it gives examptions but wana do something lively in market)
regards
ATIF
09-17-2009, 03:17 PM
Mazhar,
I am not here to prove a point to you. Your opinion is independent and must be based upon your experience and observation, so is mine.
I no where said ACCAs don't earn or cannot earn. Even B.Com people earn and in some cases earn very well. I have so many times elaborated why do I have somewhat different comments about ACCAs. However, this thread is not meant for ACCA/CA debate which has already been well debated without any conclusion. You can visit those threads if desire.
Serving of nation altogether is a different concept. Your reference of serving the nation by settling down abroad is hilarious. I don't accept majority of Fatawas given by Maulana's which is my own concern but just to remind ULEMA have given quite adverse Fatwa about settling down abroad for earnings. However, it's again not the subject matter so let it be avoided.
If you need any objective discussion, I am always available. Irrelevant discussion should be avoided now onwards.
Regards,
Kamran.
I am not here to prove a point to you. Your opinion is independent and must be based upon your experience and observation, so is mine.
I no where said ACCAs don't earn or cannot earn. Even B.Com people earn and in some cases earn very well. I have so many times elaborated why do I have somewhat different comments about ACCAs. However, this thread is not meant for ACCA/CA debate which has already been well debated without any conclusion. You can visit those threads if desire.
Serving of nation altogether is a different concept. Your reference of serving the nation by settling down abroad is hilarious. I don't accept majority of Fatawas given by Maulana's which is my own concern but just to remind ULEMA have given quite adverse Fatwa about settling down abroad for earnings. However, it's again not the subject matter so let it be avoided.
If you need any objective discussion, I am always available. Irrelevant discussion should be avoided now onwards.
Regards,
Kamran.
09-17-2009, 05:25 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Osama Rules</i>
<br />Salam,
people phoenix is not replying to e-mails??
so, how am i suppose to conform whether they offer all the papers of ACA??
anyone?any suggestion?
do reply!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
if they don't reply to your emails then you should give them a call!!
all info is available on their website, you should browse it thoroughly.
at present they are providing tuition for professional stage exams and the technical case study.
Knowledge level papers are being offered under the CFAB banner
http//www.phoenixft.com/id5.html
<br />Salam,
people phoenix is not replying to e-mails??
so, how am i suppose to conform whether they offer all the papers of ACA??
anyone?any suggestion?
do reply!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
if they don't reply to your emails then you should give them a call!!
all info is available on their website, you should browse it thoroughly.
at present they are providing tuition for professional stage exams and the technical case study.
Knowledge level papers are being offered under the CFAB banner
http//www.phoenixft.com/id5.html
09-17-2009, 10:11 PM
Ok mr KAMRAN ACA I quit this forum saying that U r GOODman and please try to all students of PAKISTAn regardless of the qualification and degree which they want to pursue. U can be of help to all, my best wishes r with you and the sons of my mother land the one and only Pakistan.
Pakistan Zinda Bad
Pakistan Zinda Bad
09-18-2009, 02:55 AM
Thanks for your reply Mr. Kamran, appreciated.
A.
A.
09-18-2009, 06:51 AM
Salam,
doing ACA directly or through CFAB will take same amount of time so isn't it better to do ACA through this route??
this route will not be considered like doing ACA through backdoor,right??
do reply..
[8D]
doing ACA directly or through CFAB will take same amount of time so isn't it better to do ACA through this route??
this route will not be considered like doing ACA through backdoor,right??
do reply..
[8D]