Accountancy Forum

Hi everybody.
I have completed my A-Level studies and am now interested in doing Actuarial Sciences. I have got some info from this site like I will have to study by myself. What I want to know is that some of you guys mentioned that you can get a job as a trainee student in places like State Life. So I want to know when do they hire and what are their hiring criteria. Also, if you can tell me how to register for SOA and if there are any books available in Karachi for thier exams.
Anybody with any information please reply.

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Hi everybody.
I have completed my A-Level studies and am now interested in doing Actuarial Sciences. I have got some info from this site like I will have to study by myself. What I want to know is that some of you guys mentioned that you can get a job as a trainee student in places like State Life. So I want to know when do they hire and what are their hiring criteria. Also, if you can tell me how to register for SOA and if there are any books available in Karachi for thier exams.
Anybody with any information please reply.

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Sorry mate don't have much information directly on your queries, however, in general if you were looking to gain information about the profession, please don't hesitate to reply back.

ahsan

Seems nobody els has a clue either! anyways, thanks for replying. Can you at least tell me that which of the two, Institute of Actuaries(UK) or Society Of Actuaries(US), should I go for

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Hi everybody.
I have completed my A-Level studies and am now interested in doing Actuarial Sciences. I have got some info from this site like I will have to study by myself. What I want to know is that some of you guys mentioned that you can get a job as a trainee student in places like State Life. So I want to know when do they hire and what are their hiring criteria. Also, if you can tell me how to register for SOA and if there are any books available in Karachi for thier exams.
Anybody with any information please reply.

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hi Faraz,
youre at the right place buddy, i can provide you with all the info you need regarding actuarial sciences. have you been to beanactuary.com ? it's a very informative site with a lot of links to other websites like those of the ASOA and IoA.
well, to start with, the first thing you really need to be sure about is your relationship with mathematics. if youre very good at it, you can go ahead with this profession, if youre not very into it, then it won't be such a good idea and don't try to get in just for the money there's in it. there's a lot of money in many other professions too.
There are 2 types of courses or streams to study actuarial sciences; you can get a degree in the subject from a university or become an actuary through the Institute of Actuaries (England) or the Society of Actuaries (US). the Institute and society routes are pretty tough and very long and people have to study on their own for the most part but on completion of the courses candidates become members and actuaries. In Pakistan there is no university offering courses in actuarial sciences at undrgrad or grad level. the Univ of Karachi planned on starting it last year but dropped it due to the lack of students. The SOA and IoA conduct their exams in pakistan like in many other countries, but the students, as a standard procedure have to prepare on their own. some firms that are recognized by the SOA and IoA are allowed o train students and employ them as trainees and assist them with studies etc. Sidat Hyder Morshed Management consultants in Karachi are one such leading firm in Pakistan. the senior pertner there, Mr. Omer Morshed is a chartered accountant and an actuary as well. Akhatr & Hasan Actuaries are another such firm. since actuarial science was convetially used in the insurance business, many leading insurance companies hire and train students and in Pakistan the largets, SateteLife insurance has a programme where it hires fresh Alevel/intermediate passed students who have avhieved very high marks/grades in math, and they register with the IoA and take their exams and as they pass each stage, are provided a better position etc.
the choice between SOA or IoA would vary from person to person. the IoA has a tougher entrance criteria with high requirements. The SOA is a bit relaxed on that side. But at the final stages, until some time ago, the SOA had a requirement for final stage students to visit the US in order to complete their membership requirements. moreover some ppl say the SOA method of examination is more modern and better from the students' viewpoint.
the books and study material can be had from the tiny actuarial students community there is in karachi, or for that matter all over pakistan, and is not much of problem and moreover the SOA and IoA also provide a lot of material to their students.

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Hi everybody.
I have completed my A-Level studies and am now interested in doing Actuarial Sciences. I have got some info from this site like I will have to study by myself. What I want to know is that some of you guys mentioned that you can get a job as a trainee student in places like State Life. So I want to know when do they hire and what are their hiring criteria. Also, if you can tell me how to register for SOA and if there are any books available in Karachi for thier exams.
Anybody with any information please reply.

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hi Faraz,
youre at the right place buddy, i can provide you with all the info you need regarding actuarial sciences. have you been to beanactuary.com ? it's a very informative site with a lot of links to other websites like those of the ASOA and IoA.
well, to start with, the first thing you really need to be sure about is your relationship with mathematics. if youre very good at it, you can go ahead with this profession, if youre not very into it, then it won't be such a good idea and don't try to get in just for the money there's in it. there's a lot of money in many other professions too.
There are 2 types of courses or streams to study actuarial sciences; you can get a degree in the subject from a university or become an actuary through the Institute of Actuaries (England) or the Society of Actuaries (US). the Institute and society routes are pretty tough and very long and people have to study on their own for the most part but on completion of the courses candidates become members and actuaries. In Pakistan there is no university offering courses in actuarial sciences at undrgrad or grad level. the Univ of Karachi planned on starting it last year but dropped it due to the lack of students. The SOA and IoA conduct their exams in pakistan like in many other countries, but the students, as a standard procedure have to prepare on their own. some firms that are recognized by the SOA and IoA are allowed o train students and employ them as trainees and assist them with studies etc. Sidat Hyder Morshed Management consultants in Karachi are one such leading firm in Pakistan. the senior pertner there, Mr. Omer Morshed is a chartered accountant and an actuary as well. Akhatr & Hasan Actuaries are another such firm. since actuarial science was convetially used in the insurance business, many leading insurance companies hire and train students and in Pakistan the largets, SateteLife insurance has a programme where it hires fresh Alevel/intermediate passed students who have avhieved very high marks/grades in math, and they register with the IoA and take their exams and as they pass each stage, are provided a better position etc.
the choice between SOA or IoA would vary from person to person. the IoA has a tougher entrance criteria with high requirements. The SOA is a bit relaxed on that side. But at the final stages, until some time ago, the SOA had a requirement for final stage students to visit the US in order to complete their membership requirements. moreover some ppl say the SOA method of examination is more modern and better from the students' viewpoint.
the books and study material can be had from the tiny actuarial students community there is in karachi, or for that matter all over pakistan, and is not much of problem and moreover the SOA and IoA also provide a lot of material to their students.

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Yes I agree with TCA but would like to comment on some parts of his writing.

1. I got the impression that he wanted to say, (and I may be wrong, but that's how I percieved it) that the university degree and institute membership are substitutes and you can decide which one to go for. However, this is not the case. Although, the highest degree that could be attained from an university is Masters in Actuarial Management but even that only allows upto 13 exemptions (out of 15 for IOA). So, in order to get the Fellowship, you still need to clear 2 papers. Moreover, for IOA you also need 3 years of relevant work experience together with a graduate degree, which fortunately need not to be in a mathematical descipline, if A Level Mathematics is attained with Grade A.

2. The writer also suggested that a trainee actuary need to have a good grasp of Mathematics. I would say he/she should have flair of Statistics, as I myself studying at undergraduate level ACtuarial Science and my peers are finding the Statistics much harder than the Mathematics contents.

I think Faraz mentioned that he studied A Levels, so if he has done Mathematics AND Further Mathematics, and got double A garde, then he should be OK with a career in Actuarial Profession.

3. Regarding Faraz'a original query that which awarding body to choose, I would say you need to plan your future beforehand. If you are intending to work in North America, I would go for SOA, for obvious reasons. However, in case of Europe, I would prefer IOA. For Pakistan, I am not so sure, since I don't know much about the preferance given inside Pakistan.

DT

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Hi everybody.
I have completed my A-Level studies and am now interested in doing Actuarial Sciences. I have got some info from this site like I will have to study by myself. What I want to know is that some of you guys mentioned that you can get a job as a trainee student in places like State Life. So I want to know when do they hire and what are their hiring criteria. Also, if you can tell me how to register for SOA and if there are any books available in Karachi for thier exams.
Anybody with any information please reply.

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hi Faraz,
youre at the right place buddy, i can provide you with all the info you need regarding actuarial sciences. have you been to beanactuary.com ? it's a very informative site with a lot of links to other websites like those of the ASOA and IoA.
well, to start with, the first thing you really need to be sure about is your relationship with mathematics. if youre very good at it, you can go ahead with this profession, if youre not very into it, then it won't be such a good idea and don't try to get in just for the money there's in it. there's a lot of money in many other professions too.
There are 2 types of courses or streams to study actuarial sciences; you can get a degree in the subject from a university or become an actuary through the Institute of Actuaries (England) or the Society of Actuaries (US). the Institute and society routes are pretty tough and very long and people have to study on their own for the most part but on completion of the courses candidates become members and actuaries. In Pakistan there is no university offering courses in actuarial sciences at undrgrad or grad level. the Univ of Karachi planned on starting it last year but dropped it due to the lack of students. The SOA and IoA conduct their exams in pakistan like in many other countries, but the students, as a standard procedure have to prepare on their own. some firms that are recognized by the SOA and IoA are allowed o train students and employ them as trainees and assist them with studies etc. Sidat Hyder Morshed Management consultants in Karachi are one such leading firm in Pakistan. the senior pertner there, Mr. Omer Morshed is a chartered accountant and an actuary as well. Akhatr & Hasan Actuaries are another such firm. since actuarial science was convetially used in the insurance business, many leading insurance companies hire and train students and in Pakistan the largets, SateteLife insurance has a programme where it hires fresh Alevel/intermediate passed students who have avhieved very high marks/grades in math, and they register with the IoA and take their exams and as they pass each stage, are provided a better position etc.
the choice between SOA or IoA would vary from person to person. the IoA has a tougher entrance criteria with high requirements. The SOA is a bit relaxed on that side. But at the final stages, until some time ago, the SOA had a requirement for final stage students to visit the US in order to complete their membership requirements. moreover some ppl say the SOA method of examination is more modern and better from the students' viewpoint.
the books and study material can be had from the tiny actuarial students community there is in karachi, or for that matter all over pakistan, and is not much of problem and moreover the SOA and IoA also provide a lot of material to their students.

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Yes I agree with TCA but would like to comment on some parts of his writing.

1. I got the impression that he wanted to say, (and I may be wrong, but that's how I percieved it) that the university degree and institute membership are substitutes and you can decide which one to go for. However, this is not the case. Although, the highest degree that could be attained from an university is Masters in Actuarial Management but even that only allows upto 13 exemptions (out of 15 for IOA). So, in order to get the Fellowship, you still need to clear 2 papers. Moreover, for IOA you also need 3 years of relevant work experience together with a graduate degree, which fortunately need not to be in a mathematical descipline, if A Level Mathematics is attained with Grade A.

2. The writer also suggested that a trainee actuary need to have a good grasp of Mathematics. I would say he/she should have flair of Statistics, as I myself studying at undergraduate level ACtuarial Science and my peers are finding the Statistics much harder than the Mathematics contents.

I think Faraz mentioned that he studied A Levels, so if he has done Mathematics AND Further Mathematics, and got double A garde, then he should be OK with a career in Actuarial Profession.

3. Regarding Faraz'a original query that which awarding body to choose, I would say you need to plan your future beforehand. If you are intending to work in North America, I would go for SOA, for obvious reasons. However, in case of Europe, I would prefer IOA. For Pakistan, I am not so sure, since I don't know much about the preferance given inside Pakistan.

DT

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DT,
youre right, i forgot to mention that going for a grad degree and going for the SOA or IoA is NOT the same. thanks for pointing out. they are 2 diff routes for studying the subject but are not equal.

DT, where are you studying for your degree? what year are you in and how's it going? i wanted to ask you, how many exemptions does a bsc honours in actuarial science get from the total exams of the IoA? and how many with the SOA? with a masters you said it's 13 out of 15 with the IoA. how may with the SOA?

thanks!

DT,
youre right, i forgot to mention that going for a grad degree and going for the SOA or IoA is NOT the same. thanks for pointing out. they are 2 diff routes for studying the subject but are not equal.

DT, where are you studying for your degree? what year are you in and how's it going? i wanted to ask you, how many exemptions does a bsc honours in actuarial science get from the total exams of the IoA? and how many with the SOA? with a masters you said it's 13 out of 15 with the IoA. how may with the SOA?

thanks!

[/quote]

TCA, I am studying BSc. Actuarial Science at the London School of Economics, London UK and this agree allows you to get upto 9 exemptions from the IOA, depending upon your progress / degree classification. On a safer side, you need a FIRST CLASS degree to get 100 Series Exemptions.

MSc. in Actuarial Management from University of Kent, UK and City University, UK, are the ONLY two courses in the whole UK, to my knowledge, that would allow you to get exemptions from the 300 Series exams of the IOA. Again, this depends upon your progress.

Since, I study and hoping to embark my practical Actuarial Career in the London / UK, therefore, I donot have much information about the SOA. I think you should get such information yourself, since you appreciated the fact that you have all the insight into the profession / routes, in your first post in this thread... lol

No seriously, I think you should get the required information from the SOA directly. I am afraid, I don't have any contacts there. If you need any information, re IOA, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Re how is it getting on, I think the course is implicitly quite tough enough, since not only we need to get good marks but we also look for getting exemptions as well, which yet alone is quite hard to achieve.

DT

Thanks for all the info you guys. TCA, it would be great if you could give me the contacts and/or addresses of the training organisations you mentioned.

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Thanks for all the info you guys. TCA, it would be great if you could give me the contacts and/or addresses of the training organisations you mentioned.

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FTG, I am glad that you find our insight useful.

Just a piece of advice however, please seek information from a more credible source and please don't JUST rely on TCA, since he has shown rather proved that some slackness in his knowledge.

NO..................., TCA and FTG, this was just a JOKE. I hope neither of you would mind. Having said this, I would advice TCA and others, including myself, to avoid using SWEEPY STATEMENTS that they know all the information of any thing. The fact is only ALLAH knows every thing. If you have any doubt, could anybody answer me what is your future tomorrow, in TRUE sense. I doubt any body would be able to tell me 100% accurate answer. (I am assuming you don't get flooked)

DT

lisetn..can ne of u plz tell me the website of institute of actuaries?secondly i wanted to know that if i wanna go to uk...n i wanna get admission in ioa, then whats the procedure. also ne idea that if i study actuarial sciences from ioa, then how long will it take to bcum an actuary..and wats their criteria for the admission? there was this guy..he was in ioa..i think..dun remember his name..if u could help me out here..id be grateful..please reply soon

Idealist

Faraz The Great, if you are free it does not mean everyone is free, you roam around all the day playing Laser Tag, other people have very less time the addmission deadline In Tabanis for CA is 15th March and you dont know what will be our starting point, do your work quickly,

I want to know that what is the aspect of Hala & haram and the influence of Sood (interest) in actuary, does being an actuary mean that you will work in a firm where the revenue is generated from Sood(Insurance Company)...

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lisetn..can ne of u plz tell me the website of institute of actuaries?secondly i wanted to know that if i wanna go to uk...n i wanna get admission in ioa, then whats the procedure. ..and wats their criteria for the admission? there was this guy..he was in ioa..i think..dun remember his name..if u could help me out here..id be grateful..please reply soon

Idealist
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Answers to your questions one by one,

1. Website of Institute of Actuaries, www.actuaries.org.uk

2. "secondly i wanted to know that if i wanna go to uk...n i wanna get admission in ioa, then whats the procedure" - It depends on your academic background plus credentials. I would elaborate on this once also you tell us your academic / industrial background.

3. "also ne idea that if i study actuarial sciences from ioa, then how long will it take to bcum an actuary" - The institute's average is just over 6 years. However, theoratically you could qualify for IOA in 3 years to infinity many years.

4. "and wats their criteria for the admission" - The minimum entrance requirements are Maths A Level at Grade B, along with a second A Level in any subject with Grade C, and an English GCSC with Grade C, together with 2 other GCSEs in any subject at Grade C.

The vast majority of entrants to actuarial profession (95%)possess a degree.

5. "there was this guy..he was in ioa..i think..dun remember his name..if u could help me out here..id be grateful.." - not sure who were you referring there. I, myself is studying Actuarial Science at the London School of Economics, London, UK, so if you need any further assistance regarding your career endeavours, please don't hesitate to contact.

Ahsan

Edited by - derivativetrader on Mar 09 2004 045640 AM

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lisetn..can ne of u plz tell me the website of institute of actuaries?secondly i wanted to know that if i wanna go to uk...n i wanna get admission in ioa, then whats the procedure. also ne idea that if i study actuarial sciences from ioa, then how long will it take to bcum an actuary..and wats their criteria for the admission? there was this guy..he was in ioa..i think..dun remember his name..if u could help me out here..id be grateful..please reply soon

Idealist
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Somehow someway I missed this thread... Anyways... For IoA you should check out www.actuaries.org.uk.... For getting an admission for a bachelors course of Actuarial Sciences (Academic Degree) visit the London School of Economics website (www.lse.ac.uk)...

Please bear in mind, the BSc. in Actuarial Sciences is different from the 'modular' course of IoA which is a 'Professional Qualification' rather than an 'Academic Degree'... However as both are courses of Actuarial Sciences, a student of BSc. in Actuarial Sciences is awarded exemptions from IoA and SOA as well... But the exemption schemes for both are different.

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Faraz The Great, if you are free it does not mean everyone is free, you roam around all the day playing Laser Tag, other people have very less time the addmission deadline In Tabanis for CA is 15th March and you dont know what will be our starting point, do your work quickly,

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Apocalypse,

What are you doing here then? If you have other things to do, good for YOU. I think people come on to this forum with seroious help on their career endeavours, and hence, we should appreciate their level of knowledge and MUST NOT use the kind of language / attitude that, unfortunately, you have just used.
Having said this, I don't have any intenstions for fight or argument, as I feel that a very foolish and not so descent way of behaving with people.

Ahsan

First of all Mr.DT i addressed FTG in my reply (who incidently happens to be my friend since last seven years), even if you think that I addressed you then wont you like to anwer my query about halal&haram in acturial sciences.

hoping for a much relevant reply.

Apocalypse

farazthegreat

derivativetrader

farazthegreat

thecharteredaccountant

derivativetrader

thecharteredaccountant

derivativetrader

farazthegreat

derivativetrader

idealist

Apocalypse

derivativetrader

sumaaan

derivativetrader

Apocalypse