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Zaid Hamid Escaping

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Printed on: Apr 17 2014

Topic:


Topic author: awaisaftab
Subject: Zaid Hamid Escaping
Posted on: Mar 04 2010 09:40:14 AM
Message:

See the folloving video Mr. Zaid Hamid is ESCAPING without giving the answer of questions raised by the ulemas of Almi Majlise Tahafuze Khatme Nabuwat Pakistan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaNN_5-t6xA&feature=related

Replies:


Reply author: padphoosilimdakar
Replied on: Mar 04 2010 10:43:44 AM
Message:

Yeh Zaid Hamid Muslim hai ya Qadiyani(Ahmadi)?


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 04 2010 11:29:16 AM
Message:


Dear to get full information about Zaid Hamid See the following links.



http://www.scribd.com/doc/23672211/Zaid-Hamid-s-past-present-a-research-work

http://www.azzab.com/172/reality-of-zaid-hamid/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUyshh4G-QU

Yousaf Kazab was a person who claimed of prophethood in 90's


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 04 2010 9:18:20 PM
Message:

Hi Everyone,

For the purpose of clarity I have to inform you that Zaid Hamid (Qadiyani Ahmadi,) is not this Zaid Hamid. Just thinking someone non-Muslim just because of resemblance of name is unjustified. We may disagree with the opinion of someone but we don’t have a right to issue certificate of Kufr-o-Ilhad. For God sack stop this nonsense now.

Giving verdict about someone, without giving him an opportunity of being heard, is totally unjustified. I enjoyed this fish market. If this is the condition of our so called Ulema, then we should not complaint from people who are burning other people alive.

May Allah guide us,

Regards,


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Mar 04 2010 9:51:46 PM
Message:

Kia yaar, afsos sad afsos

Awais Bhai, aap achay khasay parhay likhay banday ho aur samjh bhi rakhtay ho. Kisi musalman kay baray main bina tahqiq iss tarha ki baat ko aagay barhana kia buhtaan tarazi nahi hay?

Aap nay achay khasay links laga dyay. Main nay pahlay link par hi youtube par click kia aur Zaid Hamid ka ya interview clip aaraha hay. Ab aap issay suno aur batao kay kisi ki zaban say khulay iqrar kay baad bhi ussay non-muslim kahnay ya oskay baray main aaysi negative links laganay ki Islam main kia saza hay.

Maaf karna bhai, magar aik hadees kay alfaaz main aadmi kay jhota honay kayliay itna hi kafi hay kay wo bina tahqiq baat ko aagay barha day (I forgot exact words).

Pahlay aapnay aik hadees likhi thi, aur phir wapas lay li. Ab aik sakhs jo khul kar Khatim un Nabeen ka iqrar karraha hay oskay baray main iss tarha kay links bina tahqiq??

Pl. see following link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvlTCt6Kxzo&feature=related

Afsos sad afsos...

Hamari sab say bari (big) mushkil yah hay kay har sakhs ko doosray kay Islam ki buhat fikar hay.

Thik hi to har taraf say maar par rahi hay hamain. Aur khud hamaray ander jo sab say baray musalmaan hain wo baqi munafiqeen kay har roz galay kaat rahay hain.

Kia yaar. Kia log hain ham bhi.


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Mar 04 2010 9:56:25 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Greatkhans


Giving verdict about someone, without giving him an opportunity of being heard, is totally unjustified.



Respected Greatkhans and others

On the same youtube link that Awais provided above, I have found following link too, in which this Zaid Hamid is openly accepting our last Prophet (SAW) as last Prophet.

So, now what is the punishment of this biggest "buhtan"??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvlTCt6Kxzo&feature=related

Regards



Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 04 2010 9:57:37 PM
Message:

Zaid Hamid is emotionally disturbed man and lives in a state of over excitement. I (personally) feel him affected by some disorder. I know lots of people are inspired of his exciting but baseless or at least aimless speeches.

As far as our so-called "Ulema" are concerned, GreatKhan's words "fish market" are quite suited to their condition currently.

Regards,


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 04 2010 10:10:13 PM
Message:

There was a time when muslims were striving to convert others to Islam.

Now we always keep looking how some one can be kicked out of this Islamic circle.

Result is so clear as some one explained keh hamein har jaga kyun maar par rahi hai.

The one who declares a muslim as non-muslim is sort of "munaafiq" by his-self.

Hazrat Ali Karam-Allah wajho killed a kaafir who read Kalma right when the sord was at his neck, considering and believing that Kafir read the Kalma merely to save his life and not with the faith. Prophet PBUH when came to know said, no one who says KALMA should be considered kaafir/non-muslim (and killed) since we cannot see inside some one's heart. (Mafhoom and not exact words).


People can be wrong and we may be criticisng them; but crossing such a limit is ridiculous.

Regards,


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Mar 04 2010 10:40:37 PM
Message:

Dears

I don't know this person Zaid Hamid. I just saw some of his programs on TV, youtube, or websites. With all my limited knowledge, I got the impression that he is quite reckless and overly ambitious person, may not be suitable for position of responsibilities.

However, I am quite pissed off at general habit of our masses to place tags (generally qadyani tag) on opponents. We are very eager to ask and find about everyone else's religion and soon put "fatwa-e-kufar" even on people who openly accept our Prophet (PBUH) as last Prophet.

Alas!


Reply author: shani420
Replied on: Mar 04 2010 11:02:51 PM
Message:

Brothers,
Who was or is this "Yousuf kazzab"?(I am not talking about Zaid Hamid or his so-called asociation with Yousuf).


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 04:46:50 AM
Message:

Hi Kamran,

These are your excellent remarks which truly represent our condition:

quote:
Originally posted by kamranACA

There was a time when muslims were striving to convert others to Islam.

Now we always keep looking how some one can be kicked out of this Islamic circle.




Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 10:21:39 AM
Message:

Dear All

Unfortunately we always disregard ulemas of our religion. Yeh ulema hi hain jin ki waja se hum aj musalman hain in boriya nashinon ne har jaga aur har ilaqe main deen ki shama jala k rakhi huye ha.Allama Iqbal Jab spain se ho ker wapis watan aye to unhon ne kha k ae hindostan k musalmanon in ghareeb musalmano k bacho ko deen ki taleem hasil kerne do inko in k hal pe chore do ager yeh mulla na raha to jante ho kia ho ga jo hoga wo main apni ankho se dekh ker aya hun. Jis trah Spain main sirf qurtaba aur alhamrah musalmanon ki nishanian baqi reh gaye hain hindustan main bhi sirf lal qila aur Qutub Minar hi muslamanon ki nishanian reh jain gi.

Qudurat ullah Shab ne shab name main baree achi batain likhi hain wo likhtay hain yakh basta sard raton main razayeeon main lipte ijsam ko kabhi is bat pe herat nhn huye k sakht sardi main itni pabandi se fajir ki azan aur namaz kis trah ho jati hai. Garmion ki chalchalati garmion main khas ki tatian laga ker bhetne wale yeh bhool gay k sakht garmi aur chalchalati dhoop main kon itni pabandi se azan aur namaz ka intizam kerta ha. Yeh Mullah hi ha jis ne khaeen deen ki shamma, khaeen dia aur khaeen ek chingaree jala ker rakhi huyee ha.(There may be a difference of words in above quotations of Allama Iqbal and Qudarat Ullah shab because I have no written quotation right now)

Ulemah k bare main sun lain yehi Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) k gulshan k phool hain. Inhi k dam se aj hum musalman hain. In logon ne uloome qurania aur uloome nabuwat ko apne seenon main basaya.

Let us come on real discussion. Zaid Hamid has influenced a large number of youngsters. He got popularity from his TV program which went on air from TV One or News One. When some objections were raised that he was a very active follower of Yousaf Kazzab many youngster asked from him about yousaf Kazzab. He replied that Yousaf Kazab was a sufi (this statement he give before youngsters who meet with him at his residence in Chaklala Rawalpindi). Now after very long debate and denying his linkages with Yousaf Kazab he has admitted his relation with yousaf Ali Kazzab.
See the following link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPzYmT4cudU&feature=related

@ Toronto Boy

Dear main ne kisi k khilaf kufar o ilhad ka fatwa sadir nhn kia. Kia ap mujh ko bata saktain hain k main ne yeh kidher likha ha k Zaid Hamid Kafir ha ??? ya yeh k wo mulhid ha?? Dear main ne tamam videos dekhne k bad yeh post ki ha in main wo videos bhe shamil hain jo zaid hamid ki support main upload ki gayeen theen.

Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) ki ek hadees ha Jis ka mafhoom ha K qayamat k qareeb bare bare fitne namoodar honge in fitne main ek admi subah ko momin ho ga aur sham ko kafir ho ga (Allah Kami Beshi maaf farmay)
Is liay fitnon se hosheyar rehna chaye fatwa dena muftion aur ulema ka kam ha hum main se koyee is bat ka ahal nhn ha

Han mujh se ghalti huyee k main ne ek hadis baghair verification k post ker d imager zaid hamid k upper to Jayeed ulmae ikram ne eitrazat kiay hian .Ager ap ulema ikram ko qabile taqleed ya pervi k laiq nhn samjhte to ek kitab ha” Fitanay yousaf kazab” jo ghalban 1999 main likhi gayee thee yeh ek advocate ne likhi ha Yousaf kazzab k hawale se . Us waqt to koyee Zaid hamid ko janta tak nhn tha. Is kitab main zaid hamid ka nam mutadid jagho pe arha ha.

Ab zaid Hamid sahib Lahore High Court k faisle ko ghalat qarar de rahe hain aur us pe bode aitrazat ker rahe hain aur is faisle ko Judicial Murder qarar de rahe.Qun na in baton ki base per un k upper toheene idalat ka muqadma chalaya jay (waise to idalty faisle k bad us pe eitraz ho sakta ha is pe toheeene idalat ka muqadma nhn ban sakta but zaid hamid superior judiciary k qabile izat judges k khilaf inthayee gandee zuban use ker rahe hein). Ab zaid hamid logon ko qanooni moshigafion main uljhana chata ha

Ager kisi shash k nazriat pe aitraz hota ha aur us k valid evidences bhee mojood hon to us ko chayee k wo apni wazay safayee pesh kare k wo apne mazi k nazriat se taib ho chukka ha aur Allah Tala se apne gunahon pe maufi mang chukka ha. mager zaid Hamid abhi bhe kehte hain k Yousaf Kazzab bohat bara sufi tha. Is ka kia matlab ha.?? Kal ko koyee qadiani uthe ga aur revolutionary thoughts ka parchar ker k kehe ga k Nauzu billah min zalik Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani bohat bara sufi tha. Is surat main hamare pas kia jawab ho ga.???

Point to be noted that Yousaf Kazzab ko saza high court ne sunayee thi Ulamae Ikram ya Federal Shariat Court ne nhn sunayee thee. Yeh high court thi jis ne Yousaf kazab ko jail main qaid kia tha ulemah ne us ko le ja ker Jail main qaid nhn kia tha.

Mazahab ap tamam logon ka niji mamla ha due to my busy schedule I am not able to indulge in any long discussion. Zaid Hamid has admitted his link with yousaf ali Kazab. Is k ilawa har roazz you tube pe ek videio zaid hamid ki support ya mukhalfat main post ki jati ha. Jis ko haqiqat janne ka shouq ha wo you tube pe ja ker apna shouq pura ker sakta ha.

Fitnay Yousaf Kazab Kitab net pe mojood ha


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 10:49:43 AM
Message:

@Greatkhan

Dear ap to Karachi main rehte hain Almi Majlise Tahafuze Khatame Nabuwat walon ki ek bohat baree masjid karachi ki kisi main road pe ha shaid sadar k as pas whan ap jain aur apne sawalat ulema k samne rakhain.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 11:13:09 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by shani420

Brothers,
Who was or is this "Yousuf kazzab"?(I am not talking about Zaid Hamid or his so-called asociation with Yousuf).




Shani

Yousaf Kazzab ne 90's main nabuwat ka jhoota dawa kia tha. Is waja se us per muqadma chala aur Pakistan K constitution k mutabiq jurm sabit hone per Lahore High Court k ek poore bench ne us ko Sazay Maut sunayee. Zaid Hamid us waqt yousaf kazab k sath sath tha aur har Peshi pe idalat main pesh hota tha. Yousaf Kazab ki family ki hifazat ki zimedari Zaid Hamid ki security company ko sonpy gayee thi. But sazay maut pe amal se phele he ek sachay aashiqe Rasool (SAW) ne jail main yousaf kazab ko qatal ker k Ghazi Alamdin Shaheed ki yaad taza ker di.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 11:19:32 AM
Message:

Abhi tak kisi aalime deen ne zaid hamid k khilaf kufar ka fatwa nhn dia ha balke usse sirf explaination mangi ha


Reply author: ACCAite
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 11:23:25 AM
Message:

yeh humaree fitrat hai, we will raise fingers at people like Zahid Hamid. Fact is, we need people like him. Just tell me one thing and this question is directed to those who are saying ill things about him, is he spreading anything that shouldnt be? does he want us all to unite and stand up and be aware of things we shouldnt? Asal main with time we will progress towards negativity so a person like Zaid Hamid is bound to be criticized by many, specially our own people who are happy with Zardaris and the likes.


Reply author: ACCAite
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 11:26:30 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kamranACA

Zaid Hamid is emotionally disturbed man and lives in a state of over excitement. I (personally) feel him affected by some disorder. I know lots of people are inspired of his exciting but baseless or at least aimless speeches.

As far as our so-called "Ulema" are concerned, GreatKhan's words "fish market" are quite suited to their condition currently.

Regards,





oh yes we are inspired for sure, i believe most of us have our eyes closed and the truth is just too bitter so we are all in denial and hence the comments as DISORDERS.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 11:46:34 AM
Message:

Phele ye video mulahiza fermalain phir koyee comments pass keriay ga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPzYmT4cudU&feature=related

Zaid Hamid accepted his links with Yousaf Kazzab and advocating yousaf kazzab jo ke nabuwat ka jhoota dawedar tha Kia aj hamary ghairate emani mar gayee ha k hum ek essay shaksh ki himayat ker rahe hain jo ek Jhoote Nabuwat K Dawedar ka sathi tha balke abhi bhee uski himayat ker raha ha.Mere bhaion aqeede Khatame Nabuwat pe tamam makatibe fikar k ulema mutahid hain Khudara is masle ko apni ana ka masla na banain . Almi Majlise tahafuze khatame Nabuwat main tamamb firqon k ulema shamil hain ya wo Majlis k programon main shirkat kerte hain. Ghaltian Hum sab se ho sakti hain mujh se bhee ho sakti ha hatta k main ne ek unathentic hadees quote ker di mager ap ne dekha k main ne apnee ghaltee tasleem ker li maulvi lakh bure sahi mager yeh maulvion ka masla nhn yeh mere aur ap k eman ka masla ha.


Yad rakhain Aqeeday Khatme Nabuwat deen ki asas ha hazaron shaba (RAJ)jhote nabion k khilaf jhad kerte huy shaheed hue. Hozoor (SAW) k duniya se perda farmane k bad bohat se logon ne nabuwat ka jhoota dawa kia. Hazrat Abu Bakar Siddiq (R.A) ne in KAZIBEEN k khilaf jhad kia.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 1:49:39 PM
Message:

Dears

Zaid may not be saying wrong things but his state of mind is not correct. Saddam Hussain, when used to talk against USA was not doing incorrect things but uski state of mind nay pooray Iraq kay muslims ke lutya he dabo daali.

So, do listen him and get inspiration but judge every thing with your own mind to refine the things and arrive at what is practical and what is not.

Regards,


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 2:16:28 PM
Message:

See the link

http://www.scribd.com/doc/27862534/Judgement-of-Yousuf-Kazzab-Blasphemy


Reply author: Muhammad Amir
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 10:44:30 PM
Message:

Syed zaid zaman hamid is the current Imam of Ummah. Every muslim should prepare himself for Ghazwatul Hind and this man will be the one who will lead forces that will conquer India.

Watch this lecture of Hazrat Ameer Muhammad Akram Awan (Khalifah of Hazrat Allah Yar Khan - Naqshbandi Owaisi[R.A]).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtAwcnaDVZc


GHAZWA-E-HIND THE FINAL SHOWDOWN

www.ghazwatulhind.com

http://loungeofamir.blogspot.com/2009/10/ghazwa-e-hind-final-showdown.html

http://loungeofamir.blogspot.com/2009/10/akhand-pakistan.html


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 05 2010 11:41:39 PM
Message:

:)

People can figure out why I mentioned the name of Saddam!

BTW now we are used to read/listen such comec things. I hope it will take too long to rescind Ghazva (Naoozbillah) against our own selves initiated by us. Doosron ke fikar baad main karein gey.

Regards,



Kamran.


Reply author: MRS
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 12:46:36 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kamranACA

:)

People can figure out why I mentioned the name of Saddam!

BTW now we are used to read/listen such comec things. I hope it will take too long to rescind Ghazva (Naoozbillah) against our own selves initiated by us. Doosron ke fikar baad main karein gey.

Regards,
Kamran.



Agreed 100%

No one has right to pass judgement on someones faith its between allah and that individual.

with due respect to all members when ever i hear zaid hamid i cannot stop laughing . it is unbelievable that we have these kind of people who are dreaming of conquering other areas where as their own back yard is on fire.

Wake up guys, its a new world now.


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 08:26:27 AM
Message:

Hi Awais,

I read the book and I have so many concerns that if I write , it gonna take a day. Watch this video impartially again over again and listen what he is saying. You would find your answers.


Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 09:34:29 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Greatkhans

Hi Awais,

I read the book and I have so many concerns that if I write , it gonna take a day. Watch this video impartially again over again and listen what he is saying. You would find your answers.


Regards,

GREAT KHANS




Hi Great Khan

Umeed ha ap eman ki behtreen halat main honge.
Hazrat kuch din phele apne Seyed Maududi (R.A)Ki kitab ka hawal dia tha kitab ka naam tha "sunnat ki Aini Hesiyat". Is se mujh ko andaza huwa k ap ne Maududi (R.A) ki bohat sari kitabon ka mutala kia ha. Ap farma chuke hain k ap ghalban 1998 main kisi top financial position pe the us zamane main to mera Matric bhee nhn huwa tha. Ap ki theriron se andaza hota ha k ap ek wasee ul mutala shakhs hain.Jab k main ap k muqable main bohat junior hun.

Ap ne yaqinan qadianiat k khilaf threek k bare main bohat kuch parha hoga. Muqadma bhawalpur ka zikar bhe suna ho ga Jis main Hazrat Mualan Anwar shah Kashmiri (RA) idalat main khud pesh huye. Us case k bare main bhe suna hoga jis main Maulana Atta Ullah Shah Bkhari (R.A) Justice Kiyani ki idalat main pesh hue.

Apne zikar kia tha ek dafa k Maulana Maududi (R.A) ko Maslay Qadiyaniat likhe ki waja se maut ki saza huyee thi.

In baaton se qatay nazar ulema aur maulana maududi (R.A) qadiyanion ka kuch nhn bigar sake

Ab atay hain us waqay ki traf jis waqay se qadiyaniat k taboot main aakhri keel thuki. Waqaya yeh huwa k Punjab University k students ek tour pe ja rahe thay. Train Jub RUBWAH station pe ruki to IJT k karkun station pe uter ae aur unhon ne "Rehbar o rehnuma Mustafa Mustaf aur Khatimul Ambia Mustafa Mustafa "k pur josh nare laga ker station ko ser pe utha lia. Beherhal thori dair main wo log chalay gay. Is zamane main Rabwa main qadiani bohat strong the un ki ek deshat gard musallah tanzeem bhee the Al-Furqan k nam se. Is waqay k bad qadiyanion k khalifa ne us waqt k Prime Minister ko phone kia aur sari suratehal batayee aur apne shadid guse ka izhar kia. Prime Minister Sahib ne us qadiani ki dil joyee ki aur kha k "wapsi per un larkon ki Tange TOR DENA". Wapsi per jab train rabwa station per ruki to musallah qadiyani ghundon ne train pe hamla ker k bohat se talba ko buri trah zakhmi ker dia. Is k bad Hazrat Maududi ki jamat k karkun saron pe kafun bandh ker roadon pe nikal aye sath hi Almi Majlis Thafuze Khatme Nabuwat wale bhee un k sath mil gay. Us k bad doosre firqe aru tablighi jamaat bhee anti qadiani movement main shamil hogayee aur hukumat ko waqt per gaya. Aage ki tafseel se ap bakhoobi waqif hain.

Zaid Hamid k case main bhee waqiat kuch isi sequence main ro numa hue. Huwa yeh k zaid Hamid IJT ka karkun reh chuka tha jab wo Karachi ki NED University ka student tha. TV pe us k programs dekh ker Jamiat aur Jammat-e-Islami k log Aalmi Majlise Tahafuze Khatme Nabuwat k ulema k pas phonch gay aur gawahian( Evidences) din k ye wohi shaks ha jo YOUSUF Kazzzab ka mureed tha aur yeh k yeh wo zaid hamid ko achi trah jante hain qn k yeh JI aur IJT se wabista reh chuka ha.

Mere bhayee ap karachi main rehaish pazeer hain whan se do mashoor akhbar nikaltain hain "JISARAT" aur "Umat" . Jisarat Maududi sahab ki jamaat ka akhbar ha is main zaid hamid k khilaf beshumar mazmoon publish hue ap un mazamin ka mutalla farma sakte hain.

ek link main yahan de raha hun jis pe ap Jisarat k ek article ka jo zaid hamid k khilaf tha mutala farma sakte hain

http://www.makepakistanbetter.com/Why_how_what_forumU.asp?GroupID=11&ArticleID=6335

Jzakallah


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 11:11:00 AM
Message:

Piyaray Awais Bhai,

Main apkay mutalay ka ahtram karta hoon. Pehlay tashi kardoon kay main nay 1988 ki baat ki thi. Mujh per Allah ka aaj bhi bohat karam hai. Main khud numai pasand nahi karta lihaza apnay baray main bila zaroorat nahi likhta. Aur nahi bila zaroorat logoon say ulajhta hoon.

Yaqenan manay Molana ki tamam kutub ka mutalah kiya hua hai us kay ilawa mainay classic Islamic literature ka bhi mutalah ki hua hay. Us ki bina par main ye kah raha hoon kay aik alim-e-din koa mudabir, mufakir aur tahmul pasand hona chaiyae nakay jazbati. Agar koi shakhs maray samnay yae kahta hay kay wo musalman hay aur Aik Allha, Rasool, Khatam-e-nabowat, (Eman-e-Mufasil) per yaqeen rakhta hay to main us ko challenge nahi karoon ga kiyoon kay Allah sab say bahtar ilm rakhnay wala hay. Yae hi baat Zaid hamid kah raha hay. Har shakhs ko apna difa karnay ka pura haq hasil hona chahiyae. Ab main ap ko aik waqiya sunata hoon.

Rao Farman Ali apni kitab main likhta hay. Jab Z.A Bhutto ko phansi ki saza hui too tamam mamalik kay sarbrahan nai raham ki appeal ki. Indra Gandhi nay Zia ko phone kiya aur darkhast ki kay Bhutto ki saza ko umer qaid main tabdeel kar diya jay. Zia nay jawab main kaha kah hum apni ala adalatoon kay fasaloon ka ahtaram kartay hain, Indra nay kaha kah Mr. Zia main bohat achhi tarhan say waqif hoon kah Indo-Pak main adalatoon kay fasalay kis tarhan say hotay hain. Zia is kaha kah jub ap yae janti hain to kiya ap chahti hain kah wo phansi ka phanda main apnay galay main dal loon?

Molana Maududi ki saza bhi Pakistan ki aik adalat hi nay di thi. Yani fasala apki marzi ka hai to drust hay aur apkay khilaf hay to ghalat hay. Yae mantiq nahi chal sakti.

Ab aiyae, Zia Shahid ki taraf. In ki sural waloon say maray gharwaloon kay 50 sallon say talooqat hain. Wo kitnay sharif hain main bohat achhi tarhan say janta hoon. Is forum per kuchh likh nahi sakta. Ab Aiyae Umat Akhbar ki taraf. Main 1995 main Pakistan ki sab say bari distribution company ka Director Finance tha. aik din maray pas phone aya kay ap Rs.200,000.00 ka chque bhijwadain ap ki company ka ishtahar kal chap raha hay. Yae phone UMAT Akhbar say aya tha. Main nay pucha kay bhai ishtahar ham nay to nahi diya. Agar Apnay cheque nahi bhijwaya to kal say ap ki company kay khilaf khabrain lagni shuroo hou jain gyi. Mainay us say kaha kah jo karna hai kar loo main cheque nahi bhajoonga. Dusray din hamara khilaf khabar lag gai. Main nay UMAT per Sind High Court may Rs. 100 million ka dawa dair kar diya kiyoon kay hamari sari products International Brands thay. Baad main UMAT nay muafi mang li. Ab ap khud andaza kar saktay hain UMAT akhbar ka. Yae suni sunai baat nahi hay ,ara apna tajarba hay.

Bhai maray, agar is tarhan hum har aik ko kafir qarar datay rahay to wohi hoga jo aaj app dekh rahay hain, Shia, Duobandi, baralwi, zikri, Qaidiyani sub aik dusray kha khoon bahatay rahain gay aur tamam masajid wiran ho jaingy. Loog musjid main janay say bhi khoufzada ho jain gay. Muzhabi bardasht aur rawadari say hi hum kisi ko apni baat bahtar toor par samjha saktay hain.

Mujhay umeed hai kay ap samajh gay houngay.


Regards.

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 11:25:46 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Greatkhans

Piyaray Awais Bhai,

Main apkay mutalay ka ahtram karta hoon. Pehlay tashi kardoon kay main nay 1988 ki baat ki thi. Mujh per Allah ka aaj bhi bohat karam hai. Main khud numai pasand nahi karta lihaza apnay baray main bila zaroorat nahi likhta. Aur nahi bila zaroorat logoon say ulajhta hoon.

Yaqenan manay Molana ki tamam kutub ka mutalah kiya hua hai us kay ilawa mainay classic Islamic literature ka bhi mutalah ki hua hay. Us ki bina par main ye kah raha hoon kay aik alim-e-din koa mudabir, mufakir aur tahmul pasand hona chaiyae nakay jazbati. Agar koi shakhs maray samnay yae kahta hay kay wo musalman hay aur Aik Allha, Rasool, Khatam-e-nabowat, (Eman-e-Mufasil) per yaqeen rakhta hay to main us ko challenge nahi karoon ga kiyoon kay Allah sab say bahtar ilm rakhnay wala hay. Yae hi baat Zaid hamid kah raha hay. Har shakhs ko apna difa karnay ka pura haq hasil hona chahiyae. Ab main ap ko aik waqiya sunata hoon.

Rao Farman Ali apni kitab main likhta hay. Jab Z.A Bhutto ko phansi ki saza hui too tamam mamalik kay sarbrahan nai raham ki appeal ki. Indra Gandhi nay Zia ko phone kiya aur darkhast ki kay Bhutto ki saza ko umer qaid main tabdeel kar diya jay. Zia nay jawab main kaha kah hum apni ala adalatoon kay fasaloon ka ahtaram kartay hain, Indra nay kaha kah Mr. Zia main bohat achhi tarhan say waqif hoon kah Indo-Pak main adalatoon kay fasalay kis tarhan say hotay hain. Zia is kaha kah jub ap yae janti hain to kiya ap chahti hain kah wo phansi ka phanda main apnay galay main dal loon?

Molana Maududi ki saza bhi Pakistan ki aik adalat hi nay di thi. Yani fasala apki marzi ka hai to drust hay aur apkay khilaf hay to ghalat hay. Yae mantiq nahi chal sakti.

Ab aiyae, Zia Shahid ki taraf. In ki sural waloon say maray gharwaloon kay 50 sallon say talooqat hain. Wo kitnay sharif hain main bohat achhi tarhan say janta hoon. Is forum per kuchh likh nahi sakta. Ab Aiyae Umat Akhbar ki taraf. Main 1995 main Pakistan ki sab say bari distribution company ka Director Finance tha. aik din maray pas phone aya kay ap Rs.200,000.00 ka chque bhijwadain ap ki company ka ishtahar kal chap raha hay. Yae phone UMAT Akhbar say aya tha. Main nay pucha kay bhai ishtahar ham nay to nahi diya. Agar Apnay cheque nahi bhijwaya to kal say ap ki company kay khilaf khabrain lagni shuroo hou jain gyi. Mainay us say kaha kah jo karna hai kar loo main cheque nahi bhajoonga. Dusray din hamara khilaf khabar lag gai. Main nay UMAT per Sind High Court may Rs. 100 million ka dawa dair kar diya kiyoon kay hamari sari products International Brands thay. Baad main UMAT nay muafi mang li. Ab ap khud andaza kar saktay hain UMAT akhbar ka. Yae suni sunai baat nahi hay ,ara apna tajarba hay.

Bhai maray, agar is tarhan hum har aik ko kafir qarar datay rahay to wohi hoga jo aaj app dekh rahay hain, Shia, Duobandi, baralwi, zikri, Qaidiyani sub aik dusray kha khoon bahatay rahain gay aur tamam masajid wiran ho jaingy. Loog musjid main janay say bhi khoufzada ho jain gay. Muzhabi bardasht aur rawadari say hi hum kisi ko apni baat bahtar toor par samjha saktay hain.

Mujhay umeed hai kay ap samajh gay houngay.


Regards.

GREAT KHANS



Greatkhan

Yeh ap k apne khayalat hain main inka ehtram kerta hun.Mager main in se ikhtilaf ka haq rakhta hun.

Regards,

Awais Aftab


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 11:29:00 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Muhammad Amir

Syed zaid zaman hamid is the current Imam of Ummah. Every muslim should prepare himself for Ghazwatul Hind and this man will be the one who will lead forces that will conquer India.

Watch this lecture of Hazrat Ameer Muhammad Akram Awan (Khalifah of Hazrat Allah Yar Khan - Naqshbandi Owaisi[R.A]).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtAwcnaDVZc


GHAZWA-E-HIND THE FINAL SHOWDOWN

www.ghazwatulhind.com

http://loungeofamir.blogspot.com/2009/10/ghazwa-e-hind-final-showdown.html

http://loungeofamir.blogspot.com/2009/10/akhand-pakistan.html



Muhamad Aamir

Mujh ko yeh jan ker dili khushi mehsoos huye k ap Hazrat Maulana Akram Awan sahib se aqeedat
Rakhte hain. Maulana ek bohat bare sufee hain un k murshid Maulana Allah yar (R.A) ki bohat khidmat hain .Maulana Akram Awan Sufi Silsile “Silsalay Awaisia” se wabista hain. Mera chota bhai un se mil chuka ha. Maulana ki masjid manara main ha. Manara Islamabad se thore hi fasle pe ha. Mera bhayee manarah main 2 din qayam ker k bhee a chukka ha aur Hazrat ki zaat se faiz hasil kia.

Mere Bhai Aamir. Ghazway hind berhaq ha. Kaseer ahadeese nabwia is mouzu pe mojood hain. Mere Nabi ki baat jhooti nhn ho sakti hum ko in baton pe hansna nhn chaye. Ghazway hind berhaq ha. Hazrat shaba ghazway Khandaq main khandaq khod rahe the k ek pathar agay jo toot nhn raha tha APP (S.A.W)ne is pathar pe teen zerbain lagain her zerb pe AAP (S.A.W) Kisi baree saltanat k musalmanon k hathon mustaqbil main fatah ki khushkhabri sunate Ap (SAW) ne room aur iran k fatah ki khushkhabri sunayee in ko sun ker to shaba bhee thore se heran ho gay mager un ko yaqin tha k Hozoor (SAW) se barh ker sahi pesheen goyee ker ne wala duniya main na peda huwa ha na ho ga. Kufar to in fatah ki pesheen goyian sun ker ek doosre se hansi mazaq kernel age k yeh musalman hamare dar aur khof se khandaq khod rahe hain khane ko in k pass ha nhn (Huzoor SAW ne aur sahaba ne khndaqain khodte waqt pait pe pathar bandhe hote thay bhook ki aur faqay ki shidat ki wajah se)aur batain ker rahe hain yeh bari bari super powers k fatah kerne ki. Lekin Chashme Falak ne wo manzar dekha k Room,Iran aur Qaisar O Kasra pe musalmanon ki hukumat qaim hoyee. Inshallah wo din door nhn ha jab Delhi k lal qile pe islam ka subz hilali percham dobara lehray ga. Puri duniya bhee ager yeh kahe k yeh deewane ka khawab ha to bhee main is baat ko manne k liay tayar nhn hoon. Puri duniya ghalat ho sakti ha mager mere Aqa,mere Nabi (SAW) ki baat ghalat nhn ho sakti.

Lekin zaid Hamid pe hum kis taraha bharos ker sakte hain. Ap Hazrat Ameer Maulana Akram Awan (DB) ki yeh video dekhain jis main unhon ne kaha k zaid hamid Yousaf Kazzab ka sathi tha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3Xj4TrzKM

Please see the video


Abu Daud ne Huzoor (S.A.W) ki ek hadees bayan ki ha jis ka mafhoom peshe khidmat ha

“Aap (SAW) ne farmay qayamat k qareeb Tareek Raat k Tukron ki trah Fitne Namoodar Honge In Fitnon main Ek Shaks Subah ko Momin Ho Ga Sham Ko Kafir Ho ga. Sham Ko to Momin Ho ga Mager Subah Ko Kafir Ho ga. (Yeh Hadees ka Mafhoom Ha Allah Kami Beshi Maaf Farmay)

Ek Aur jaga in fitnon k bare main yeh bhee farmaya k ye fitne logon ko apni taraf khench lenge jo inki taraf dekhe ga.
Ek jaga upper quote ki gayee Hadees main yeh izafa bhee ha

“Admi bhot thore mall k peechay apne eman ko bech dega.” (again mafhoom)

Allah ham sab k eman ki hifazat farmay

Ameen

Jazakallah

Awais Aftab


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 12:03:03 PM
Message:

@Great Khan

Ap ko Qadiayanion ka Zikar musalmanon k firqon k sath nhn kerna chaye tha. Is se koyee ghalat matlab le sakta ha wese bhee qadiani musalman nhn hain. Deobandi, Brelvi, Ahle Tashih, Ahle Hadis sub pakkay thakkay musalman hain.Jo log ek doosre ko kafir qarar dain unki gardanain utar lena chayain.

@All

Islam k daire ko itna bhee wasi na karain k is main Qadiyani,Pervaizi aur Lahori group bhee sama jay. Main Zaid Hamid k reference main nhn keh raha. Zaid Hamid K khilaf koyee fatwa nhn aya ha us se sirf explaination mangi ja rahi ha.

Mera is topic pe long discussion ka koyee irada nhn tha. Mager yeh topic bharta ja rha ha ap tamam logon se guzarish ha k ap log apne tor pe tehqiq karain Zaid Hamid k bare main. Haqiqat ka khud hi pata chal jay ga.Ager kisi ko mujh se koyee sawal kerna ha to wo mujh ko email ker sakta ha. Ager yeh topic mazeed challa to bohat se masle aur ikhtilafat uthainge.


Reply author: MRS
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 3:57:34 PM
Message:

Its very common in our country to pronounce the verdict of kufer if some one disagrees to your point. My humble request to all be rational and try to see other side of story...
regards

M.Rizwan

Countering Pakistani terrorists’ anti-India propaganda

By Maulana Waris Mazhari

(Translated from Urdu by Yoginder Sikand)

For almost two decades now, self-styled jihadist outfits based in
Pakistan have been engaged in a war against India in Kashmir. This war
of theirs has no sanction in Islam, which does not allow for proxy
war, and that too one declared by non-state actors. It is an explicit
violation of all Islamic principles. These outfits, which have
considerable support inside Pakistan, see the conflict between India
and Pakistan over Kashmir as a religious struggle, and they wrongly
describe it as a jihad. They regard their role in Kashmir as but the
first step in a grand, though completely fanciful, plan to annex India
into Pakistan and convert it into what they style as dar- ul-islam,
the Abode of Islam. But what they finally dream of establishing, or so
they boast, is Muslim hegemony throughout the entire world.

I have used the term ‘hegemony’ here deliberately, for radical Muslim
groups in Pakistan and in the Arab world have been indelibly
influenced and shaped by the hegemonic designs of European colonialism
in the past and Western imperialism today, and, in some senses, are a
reaction to this hegemonic project. They seek to counter Western
political supremacy and replace it by what they conceive of as Islamic
political supremacy. In my view, this approach is in sharp
contradistinction to Islamic teachings. The term ghalba-e islam, the
establishment of the supremacy of Islam, used in the context of the
Quran and the sayings of the Prophet (Hadith), refers not to any
political project of Muslim domination, but, rather, to the
establishment of the superiority of Islam’s ideological and spiritual
message. This, in fact, was the basic crux of the mission of the
Prophet Muhammad. However, the term has been distorted at the hands of
the self-styled jihadists, who present it as a project to establish
Muslim or Islamic political domination over the entire world.

War against India

Today, as the case of the Pakistani self-styled jihadists so
tragically illustrates, many of those who claim to be struggling in
the cause of Islam themselves work against Islamic teachings by
deliberately or otherwise misinterpreting them. This is the case with
their misuse of the term jihad in the context of Kashmir in order to
win mass support for themselves. Needless to add, this is a major
cause for growing anti-Islamic sentiments among many non-Muslims.

The dispute between India and Pakistan over Kashmir has been lingering
for more than half a century. A major hurdle in the resolution of this
conflict is the self-styled jihadists based in Pakistan, who insist
that the conflict over Kashmir is an Islamic jihad and that,
therefore, war is the only solution. They claim that participation in
this so-called jihad has become a farz-e ayn, a duty binding on all
Muslims, and some of them, most prominently the dreaded Lashkar-e
Tayyeba, even go so far as to claim that the war in Kashmir is nothing
but the ghazwat ul-hind, the ‘war against India’ which is mentioned in
a saying attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. By this they want to
suggest that waging war against India is an Islamic duty, something
prophesied by the Prophet Muhammad himself.

What is the actual meaning and implication of the statement attributed
to the Prophet regarding the ghazwat ul-hind, which the Pakistan-based
self-styled jihadists regularly refer to, and grossly misinterpret, in
order to whip up anti-Indian sentiments and seek what they wrongly
claim is Islamic sanction for their deadly terror attacks against
India, in Kashmir and beyond? Before I discuss that, I must point out
that the statement attributed to the Prophet regarding the ghazwat
ul-hind is found in only one of the sihah sitta, the six collections
of Hadith reports of the Sunni Muslims—in the collection by al-Nasai.
This statement was narrated by Abu Hurairah, a companion of the
Prophet. According to him, the Prophet prophesied a battle against
India. If he (Abu Hurairah) got the chance to participate in this
battle, Abu Hurairah said, he would do so, sacrificing his wealth and
life. If he died in this battle, he said, he would be counted among
the exalted martyrs. According to another narration, related by the
Prophet’s freed slave Thoban, the Prophet once declared that there
were two groups among the Muslims whom God had saved from the fires of
Hell. The first would be a group that invaded India. The other group
would be those Muslims who accompanied Jesus (after he returned to the
world). A similar narration is contained in the collections of Hadith
by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Baihaqi and Tabrani.

Explanation

Because this hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind mentions India, and is
marshaled by self-styled Pakistan-based jihadists active in Kashmir,
it marks the Kashmir conflict out as clearly distinct from other
conflicts elsewhere in the world between Muslims and others. These
self-styled jihadists regularly invoke this hadith, trapping people in
their net by claiming that if they were to die fighting the Indians in
Kashmir they would be saved from hell and would earn a place in
heaven. This claim, false though it is, is regularly and constantly
repeated, as is evident from a host of Pakistani websites and
periodicals.

Let me quote a revealing instance in this regard. Recently, I came
across the August 2003 issue of ‘Muhaddith’, an Urdu magazine
published from Lahore, Pakistan. It contains a 20-page article on the
ghazwat ul-hind, written by a certain Dr. Asmatullah, Assistant
Professor at the Islamic Research Academy of the International Islamic
University, Islamabad. The article represents a pathetic effort to
project the ongoing conflict in Kashmir as precisely the same ghazwat
ul-hind that the Prophet is said to have predicted. And it is on the
basis of this reported hadith of the Prophet that ultra-radical
Islamists in Pakistan talk about unleashing a so-called jihad,
extending out of Kashmir and to consume the whole of India. This is no
longer limited to just fiery rhetoric alone, but, in fact, is also now
accompanied by deadly terror attacks in different parts of India,
which Pakistan-based radicals wrongly style as a jihad or even as the
ghawzat ul-hind reportedly prophesied by the Prophet. It is striking
to note in this connection that in the above-mentioned article, the
editors of ‘Muhadith’ disagree with the views of the author,
expressing their differences in the form of a footnote. Yet, this
counter-view, as expressed by the editors of the magazine, is hardly
ever discussed or even referred to in Pakistani so-called jihadist
literature, indicating, therefore, that the rhetoric of the
self-styled jihadists is based less on proper scholarly analysis of
the Islamic textual tradition than on strident, heated emotionalism
and a deep-rooted hatred and feeling of revenge. This applies not just
in the Pakistani case. Rather, is a phenomenon common to almost all
so-called jihadist movements throughout the rest of the world.

The Pakistani self-styled jihadists, it would appear, have made the
hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind into a plaything in their hands in
order to entrap innocent people. It is quite possible that the
Pakistani youth who were involved in the recent deadly terrorist
attack on Mumbai were fed on this sort of poisonous propaganda and led
into believing that they might go straight to heaven if they waged war
against India. In India, the banned Students Islamic Movement of India
appeared to have backed the same wholly erroneous and unwarranted
interpretation of the hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind, following in
the footsteps of Pakistani radical groups. Mercifully, as far as I
know, no other Indian Muslim group or scholar worthy of mention has
adopted the ‘Pakistani interpretation’ of this particular hadith
report.

Tragically, the concept of jihad has been subjected to considerable
abuse and made to serve extremist ends by self-styled jihadists. This
started in the very first century of Islam itself, when intra-Muslim
wars were sought to be christened by competing groups as jihads. And
because of the distorted understanding of jihad championed by many
Muslims themselves, they labeled any and every controversy and
conflict with non-Muslims, even if it had nothing at all to do with
religion but everything to do with politics, as a jihad, as the case
of Kashmir well exemplifies. Another facet of the distorted
understanding of jihad by some Muslims are suicide-bombings, in which
innocent civilians are killed. Yet another is proxy war by non-state
actors, such as armed self-styled jihadist groups, which actually has
no legitimacy in Islam at all.

Scrutiny

Coming back to the question of the hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind,
some aspects of the report deserve particular scrutiny. Firstly, as
mentioned earlier, this report is mentioned only in the collection of
al-Nasai from among the six collections of Hadith which most Sunnis
regard, to varying degrees, as canonical. However, considering the
merits or rewards of the ghazwat ul-hind that it talks about, it
ought, one might think, to have been narrated by many more companions
of the Prophet. But that, as it curiously happens, is not the case.

Secondly, and this follows from above, it is possible that this hadith
report is not genuine and that it might have been manufactured in the
period of the Ummayad Caliphs to suit and justify their own political
purposes and expansionist deigns. On the other hand, if this hadith
report is indeed genuine—which it might well be—in my view, the battle
against India that it predicted was fulfilled in the early Islamic
period itself, and is not something that will happen in the future.
This, in fact, is the opinion of the majority of the ulema, qualified
Islamic scholars. And this view accords with reason as well. It is
quite likely that the ghazwat ul-hind that this report predicted took
the form of the attack by an Arab Muslim force on Thana and Bharuch,
in coastal western India, in the 15th year of the Islamic calendar in
the reign of the Caliph Umar. Equally possibly, it could have been
fulfilled in the form of the missionary efforts of some of the
Prophet’s companions soon after, in the reign of the Caliphs Uthman
and Ali, in Sindh and Gujarat. Some other ulema consider this hadith
to have been fulfilled in the form of the attack and occupation of
Sindh by Arab Muslims led by Muhammad bin Qasim in the 93rd year of
the Islamic calendar, which then facilitated the spread of Islam in
the country. This might well be the case, for the hadith report about
the ghazwat ul-hind contained in the Masnad of Ahmad ibn Hanbal, a
well-known collection of Hadith narratives attributed to the Prophet,
mentions that the Muslim army that would attack India would be sent in
the direction of Sindh and Hind.

Thirdly, this hadith mentions only a single or particular battle
(ghazwa), and not a series of continuing battles, unlike what the
author of the article in the ‘Muhaddith’, referred to above, echoing
the arguments of Pakistani self-styled jihadists, claims.

Fourthly, one must raise the very pertinent question of how it is at
possible that, in the face of the numerous attacks on India by Arab
and other Muslims over the last one thousand years, the more than six
hundred rule of Muslim dynasties that controlled most of India and the
rapid spread of Islam in the country in the period when they ruled,
any scope could be left to consider India a target of jihad in the
future. Furthermore, today India and Pakistan have diplomatic
relations and are bound by treaty relations. Hence, the proxy war
engaged in by Kashmir by powerful forces in Pakistan in the guise of a
so-called jihad is nothing but deceit, which is a complete
contravention of, indeed a revolt against, accepted Islamic teachings.

Fifthly, it must be remembered that it would have been very easy for
Muslim conquerors of India in the past, men like Mahmud of Ghazni,
Shihabuddin Ghori, Timur, Nadir Shah and so on, to present the hadith
about the ghazwat ul-hind and wield it as a weapon to justify their
attacks on the country. The corrupt ulema associated with their courts
could well have suggested this to them had they wished. However, no
such mention is made about this in history books. In the eighteenth
century, the well-known Islamic scholar Shah Waliullah of Delhi
invited the Afghan warlord Ahmad Shah Abdali to invade India and
dispel the Marathas, which he accepted, but yet Shah Waliullah, too,
did not use this hadith as a pretext for this.


Indian ulema

It is also pertinent to examine how some well-known contemporary
Indian ulema look at this hadith report. Maulana Abdul Hamid Numani, a
leading figure of the Jamiat ul-Ulema-i Hind, opines that this hadith
was fulfilled at the time of the ‘Four Righteous Caliphs’ of the
Sunnis, soon after the demise of the Prophet Muhammad, when several
companions of the Prophet came to India, mainly in order to spread
Islam. Mufti Sajid Qasmi, who teaches at the Dar ul-Uloom in Deoband,
is also of the same opinion, although he believes that it might also
refer to the invasion of Sindh by the Arabs under Muhammad bin Qasim
in the eighth century. On the other hand, Maulana Mufti Mushtaq
Tijarvi of the Jamaat-i Islami Hind believes that it is possible that
this hadith report is not genuine at all and that it might have been
fabricated at the time of Muhammad bin Qasim’s invasion of Sindh in
order to justify it.

Whatever the case might be, the misuse by radical groups of this
hadith report to spearhead war in Kashmir in the name of so-called
jihad and to foment conflict between India and Pakistan is tragic, to
say the least. It is nothing sort of a crime against God and the
Prophet. In their worldviews and in their actions as well, the
self-styled jihadist outfits seem to have gone the way of the
Khawarij, a group that emerged in the early period of Islam and who
were rejected by other Muslims. The Khawarij believed that they alone
were Muslims and that all others, including those who called
themselves Muslims, were infidels and fit to be killed. With reference
to the Khawarij, the Prophet predicted that they would depart from
Islam in the same way as an arrow flies out of a bow. About the
Khawarij the Caliph Ali mentioned that they take the word of truth and
turn it into falsehood (kalimatu haqqin urida beha al-batil). This he
said in the context of the Khawarij misinterpreting the Quran and
claiming that Ali and his followers were infidels who deserved to be
killed.

It is imperative, and extremely urgent, for Muslim scholars,
particularly the ulema, to take strict notice of, and stridently
oppose the radical self-styled jihadists, who are distorting and
misunderstandings Islamic teachings, following in the footsteps of the
Khawarij of the past, and spreading death and destruction in the name
of Islam. Jihad, properly understood, is a struggle to put an end to
strife and conflict, not to create or foment it, as is being done
today. The general public, particularly Muslims themselves, should be
made aware of the dangerous deviation of the self-styled jihadists and
the horrendous implications of their acts and views. In this regard, a
major responsibility rests with the ulema of India and Pakistan. These
days, ulema groups in India are very actively involved in organizing
conferences and holding rallies seeking to defend themselves and Islam
from the charges terrorism leveled against them. This is a very
welcome thing. However, they must also stridently speak out against
and clearly and unambiguously expose and denounce the self-styled
soldiers of Islam who are promoting terrorism in the name of Islam. At
the same time, it is also urgent to promote re-thinking of some
medieval notions of jihad, such as that of offensive jihad, which does
not actually have any Islamic legitimacy. This is essential for
Muslims to live in today’s times and to come to terms with democracy
and pluralism. Simply verbally defending Muslims and Islam from the
charges of terrorism is, clearly, not enough. Nor is it adequate to
simply condemn terrorism in very general terms. The truth is, and this
cannot be disputed, that today there is also a pressing need to
unleash a ‘jihad’ against the self-styled jihadist outfits themselves.
And in this jihad, undoubtedly, the ulema and Muslim intellectuals
have a central role to play and a major responsibility to shoulder.

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Maulana Waris Mazhari, a graduate of the Dar ul-Uloom at Deoband, is
the editor of the Delhi-based ‘Tarjuman Dar ul-Uloom’, the official
organ of the Deoband Graduates’ Association. He can be contacted on
w.mazhari@gmail.com
(Source: http://www.twocircles.net/2009jan24/countering_pakistani_terrorists_anti_india_propaganda.html )


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 5:00:58 PM
Message:

Great Khans

I really appreciate your last post where you have nicely discussed a part of history, its logical comparison and some facts about so-called newspaper. BTW, I also know such newspapers in depth so could not help laughing. These newspapers (which don’t contain any news) are in fact published for blackmailing purposes; and you have rightly pointed it out with a real life example.

We Pakistanis (probably all third world people) have a problem of declaring the others as nefarious, sinful, malicious and kaafirs etc MERELY, if something logical is questioned or if the basis of some belief or disbelief is inquired. A simple difference of opinion with our so-called Ulema (who are normally parrots) on some controversial issue can make you to be grouped in the category of non-muslims and kaafirs; and the very first category you would be grouped in is Qadiyani or Lahori etc. (Allah Reham Karey).

Our problem is that, we at large (including myself) don’t much know about our religion, our history, clear message of Allah, what historically has been practiced, how we evolved as a nation, what other nations conceived from us, what we conceived from others, what threats we have, what threats others have from us, what strengths of our religion and our nation (as Muslims) can be presented to others for converting them to Islam.

Majority does not realize that we don’t even know our complete history that is not far sighted. We don’t know in all details that what has been happening after the WISAAL of Prophet Peace Be Upon Him, and how our nation has been led to in subsequent times. What allegations “kaafirs” and “munaafeqeen” made and what are the exact replies. We simply know how to fire own properties and loot / destroy the assets of our own people while agitating against Denmark (or even against our own sub-sects) or to declare people like Rushdi as WAJAB-UL-QATAL or ban any stuff produced by our enemies (like Rushdi) in our country etc; but we don’t know what are the replies to the ill-mannered allegations of others like Denmark or Rushdi or others etc.

We don’t feel that firing out properties (doing other heinous things in its hide) banning what others say or publish and declaring others as WAJAB-UL-QATAL will not benefit us at all. Rather, it is and has since been portraying our wrong and ugly picture to others and is becoming a basis of hatred for us. We and our so-called Ulema don’t realize this. This is what we are.

We don’t believe in progression in the way we should, since we are the nation that carries the last message of Allah. We are so low, deteriorated, bifurcated, internally destroyed (due to lot of differences and deceptions), backward, ill-mannered, timid, technically / economically / financially / socially illiterate and outdated. Aur kamal yeh hai keh we never worry for it as a nation. Here “we” includes we and our so-called Ulema from whom we have to get the “light”; a ray of hope; and who presumably (I “personally” don’t believe in this presumption though, due to the class we have) are responsible to make the humanity better, improved, faithful, well mannered, united, progressive; so that finally the leaders of the mankind can be evolved.

……“Sabaq phir parh sadaqat ka, adalat ka, shujaat ka……
……Liya jaaey ga tujh say kaam dunya ke imaamat ka”……

We are too concerned for “DUNYA KE IMAAMAT” (that in fact is what Allah desires from muslims), but we altogether ignore the ingredients which make a nation to reach at such point.

These are definitely:-

“sadaqat”; I am sorry to say at the moment we as a nation are most fabricators and liars.

“Adalat”; we use to pull out our senior and independent judges by gripping at their hairs and ties; we are a nation where decisions are taken in the manner GREAT KHAN described in his post.

“Shujaat”; Yeh lafaz, if used for our nation (at this moment), tu iss lafaz ke tauheen hai. Shujaat requires research, technical advancement, development, education, openness, developing required strengths, and then coming up at the level jahaan Allah dushmano kay dil main hamara raob daal day. Certainly we are not living in the era of those who were like the stars. We have to do us at our own and Allah has given us every thing to do it.

How come we deserve to be IMAAMS (leaders / conquerors / winners / emperors) of the world so that Allah aur Allah kay deen ko implement kar sakain.

Ghazva-e-Hind tu zaroor ho ge; laikan kia zaroori hai keh ham jaisey jaahalon aur bay-amlon kay haathon say ho ge?

We can only do what we are seeing from ages; and even what we are seeing at this thread.

I just recall the “fish market”. Great Khans, nice words selected my friend.


Regards,



KAMRAN.


Reply author: rabia-k
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 5:43:20 PM
Message:

Qadyanis are kafirs, in fact ULTIMATE kafirs. they are a snake in the bush for Muslims.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 9:18:39 PM
Message:

Dear All

MRS I really appreciate your work. Your above post shows that you have made a lot of research work before writing it. It is really admirable. The reference quoted by you are valid the Religious Leaders whose names mentioned by you are famous. Your effort is admirable. Jis dour main ulemah-e-ikram ko Do Takkay k log kha ja raha ho us dour main ager koyee ulema ke hawale ya references quote kere to bari khushi hoti ha.


Dear difference of opinions is a healthy sign. There may be a difference in the interpretation of a saying of Holy Prophet (PBUH). We find difference of interpretation in Mujtahadeen, Aimay Arba,Salf Saleheen and even in Shaba (RAJ).

I am not Jehadi and I think Aamir is also not a jehadi.
.
Jhan tak kisi ko kafir ,murtad ya munafiq qarar dene ki bat ha to main FATWA FOBIA ka shaded mukhalif hun mager mere bhaion is ka yeh matlab nhn k kisi kafir ko bhee kafir na kha jay. Islami tarikh ka mutala karain kitne bare bare fitne runuma huy.
Khawarij, Firqay Batniy, Qaramtaa, Mutizila, deene ilahi qadiyaniat, perveziat .
Khwarij ka fitna Hazrat Ali k doure khilafat main runuma huwa Hazrat Ali ne in k khilaf alme jhad buland kia aur in ko qatal kia.
Mudabir,Mohtat aur thaday mizah k alme deen ka yeh matlab nhn ha k koyee jo marzi kerta rahe, kufriyat bagta rahe aur nabuwat k jhote dawe kerta rahay aur Maulana sahib Sumum Bukmum ki tasveer ban k bhaite rahain.
Ulema ne hamesha fitnon aur batil firqon aur nabuwat k jhoote dawedaron ke khilaf jehad kia ha.

I know very well about newspapers because of my job experience in advertising sector. But we cannot declare all proceeding of a case as invalid. The case of yousuf Kazzab was reported by many newspapers beside Khabrain and Ummat. We can’t say that all newspapers, reporting the case, were wrong, judiciary was wrong, advocates and Ulemah were also wrong. It is fabulous to believe that all efforts of ulema, advocates and judiciary was to design to hang a so called innocent SUFFI. It’s fabulous.

As far as case of Yousuf Kazzab is concerned I read some details of the case. verdict of the case came after fulfilling all legal requirements and it was according to Sharia and the constitution.


I have a different opinion about the judgment in the case,reffered by Great Khan, I think Superior Judiciary gave the decision on merit . The said bench of judiciary consisted on many honorable judges like justice Nasim Hussain Shah.

I observed that many members do not read completely the links that I quoted above. The list of ulema of all sects who were in favour of verdict in blasphemy case of yousaf Kazzab is following.

Deobandi

Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianvi - AMTKN
Maulana Muhammad Ismail Shuja Abadi - General Secretary - AMTKN
Syed Ata ul Mohsin Bukhari - Majlis e Aihrar Pakistan, AMTKN
Maulana Manzoor Ahmed Chinioti - MPA, AMTKN
Maulana Muhammad Abdul Majeed Deen Puri - Dar ul Ifta Jamia Uloom ul Islamia Binnori Town Karachi
Maulana Mufti Muhammad Naeem - Muhtamim o Sheikh ul Hadis - Jamia Binoria Site Karachi
Maulana Abdur Rehman Ashrafi - Jamia Ashrafia Lahore
Maulana Muhammad Aslam Sheikhupuri - www.darsequran.com, Jamia tur Rasheed
Maulana Qari Mansoor Ahmed - Jamia tur Rasheed
Maulana Azam Tariq - Parlimentary Leader - Punjab Assembly, SSP
Maulana Syed Wasi Mazher Nadvi
Maulana Fazlur Rehman - Ameer - JUI(F)
Maulana Samiul Haq - Ameer - JUI(S)
Hafiz Hussain Ahmed - JUI (F)
Qari Shabbir Ahmed Usmani - Central Secretary of Information - AMTKN Rabwah
Maulvi Faqir Muhammad - Secretary Information - AMTKN
Allama Aurangzeb Awan Islamabad - AMTKN
Maulana Munawwer Hussain Siddiqui - AMTKN
Khuwaja Khan Muhammad - AMTKN
Maulana Khan Muhammad - AMTKN
Aziz ur Rehman Jalandhry - AMTKN
Maulana Bashir Ahmed - AMTKN
Maulana Muhammad Hussain Nasir Sukkur - AMTKN
Maulana Jamalullah Al Hussaini Punnu Aaqil - AMTKN
Mufti Hafeez ur Rehman Tando Adam - AMTKN
Maulana Muhammad Nazar Usmani Hyderabad - AMTKN
Maulana Muhammad Ashraf Karachi - AMTKN
Maulana Muhammad Ali Siddiqui Quetta - AMTKN
Maulana Muhammad Ishaq Bahawalpur - AMTKN
Maulana Abdul Aziz Bahawalpur - AMTKN
Maulana Abdul Khaliq Rehman Sahiwal - AMTKN
Maulana Abdul Razzaq Mujahid Okara - AMTKN
Hafiz Muhammad Saqib - AMTKN
Maulana Qaisarullah Akhtar Gujranwala - AMTKN
Maulana Ghulam Hussain Jhang - AMTKN
Qazi Ahsaan Ahmed Rabwah - AMTKN
Syed Mumtaz ul Hassan Gilani Faisalabad - AMTKN
Qari Muhammad Ramzan - AMTKN
Qari Muhammad Ali - AMTKN
Maulana Muhammad Akram Tufani - AMTKN
Maulana Allah Wasaya - AMTKN
Maulana Khuda Baksh - AMTKN
Maulana Sarfaraz Khan - AMTKN
Maulana Syed Inayatullah Shah Sahab Bukhari - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Muhammad Tayyab - Ameer e Jamiat, Sheikh ul Quran - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Syed Ziaullah Shah Bukhari - Nazim e Aala Pakistan - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Ziaul Haq - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Qazi Asmatullah - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Allama Ataullah Shah - Nazim e Aala Punjab - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Sahabzada Ashraf Ali - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Qazi Muhammad Nakab - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Noor Ilahi - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Sahabzada Aziz ur Rehman - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Qari Khalil Ahmed Bandhyani - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Abdul Hai - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Abdul Razzaq - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Qari Abdul Aziz - Jamiat e Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah
Maulana Shams ul Haq - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Rafiq ullah - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Mufti Kifayat ullah - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Ghulam Rasool - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Tayyab - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Saif ur Rehman - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Yusuf - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Qari Yaqub - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Shafiq ur Rehman - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Khalid - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Faiz ur Rehman - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Hidayatullah - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Ziaullah - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Rooh ul Ameen - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Noor ul Wakeel - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Rafi ullah - Asha'at Tauheed wa Sunnah Karachi
Maulana Ahmed Muawiyah - Majlis e Aihrar e Islam
Chaudhry Zafar Iqbal Advocate - President - Majlis e Aihrar e Islam Lahore
Mian Muhammad Owais - Nazim - Majlis e Aihrar e Islam Lahore
Syed Muhammad Kafeel Bukhari - Majlis e Aihrar e Islam
Abdul Latif Khalid Cheema - Majlis e Aihrar e Islam
Qari Muhammad Yusuf Aihrar - Majlis e Aihrar e Islam
Mian Muhammad Owais - Majlis e Aihrar e Islam
Hafiz Ahmed Bakhsh Advocate - SSP Karachi
Sagheer Ahmed Sheikh - SSP Karachi
Mansoor Ali Babar - SSP Karachi
Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Nadeem - SSP Karachi
Muhammad Ilyas Zubair - SSP Karachi
Hafiz Zulfiqar - SSP
Professor Umer Hayat - SSP
Syed Inamullah Shah Bukhari - President - SSP Sahiwal
Qari Muhammad Ahmed Rasheedi - Vice President - SSP Sahiwal
Qari Manzoor Ahmed - SSP Sahiwal
Qari Muhammad Shafi Kazmi - SSP Sahiwal
Maulana Abdul Majeed - Sheikh ul Hadis - Jamia Islamia Babul Uloom Kerore Pakka
Mufti Abu Talha Zafar Iqbal - Jamia Islamia Babul Uloom Kerore Pakka
Maulana Taj Muhammad - JUI(F)
Hafiz Rasheed Ahmed - Ameer - JUI(F) Lahore
Hassan Farooq But - Secretary General - JUI(F) Lahore
Hafiz Nadeem Shehzad - Secretary Information - JUI(F) Lahore
Muhammad Idrees Upal - JUI(F) Lahore
Saifuddin Saif - Ameer - JUI(F) Lahore
Maulana Khalil ur Rehman Haqqani - JUI(S)
Ata ullah Qadri - Divisional Secretary - JUI(S)
Maulana Naeemullah Farooqi - JUI
Maulana Muhibun Nabi - JUI
Hafiz Muhammad Riaz Durrani - JUI
Qazi Nazir Ahmed - JUI
Abdul Qadir Roparri
Professor Shah Fareed ul Haq
Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Haideri
Maulana Iqbal Muhammad
Maulana Syed Gulzar Shah
Maulana Abdul Qayyum Nomani
Maulana Abdul Waheed
Maulana Muhammad Yaar
Maulana Mufti Abdullah Shaukat
Maulana Noor ul Ameen
Maulana Ghulam Rasool Bukhari
Maulana Muhammad Arif
Maulana Mufti Khalid Muhammad

Barelvi

Dr Muhammad Sarfaraz Naeemi - Jamia Naeemia Lahore
Maulana Shah Ahmed Noorani - JUP (Noorani)
Maulana Abdul Sattar Khan Niazi - JUP (Niazi)
Pir Aijaz Hashmi - Cenral Secratory of Information - JUP (Noorani)
Muhammad Saleem Qadri - Quaid - ST
Allama Kaukab Noorani Okarvi
Mufti Abdul Aziz - Dar ul Uloom Amjadia Karachi
Dr Mufti Ghulam Server Qadri - Jamia Rizvia Trust
Muhammad Afzal Qadri - Ameer - Minhaj ul Quran Sahiwal
Shah Fareed ul Haq - Vice President - JUP
Maulana Shoaib Qadri - JUP
Maulana Muhammad Hussain Lakhani - JUP
Pir Safdar Shah - JUP (Niazi)
Maulana Ayaz Niazi - JUP
Shabbir Ahmed Hashmi - Central Ameer - JUP
Sardar Muhammad Khan Laghari - JUP
Dr Abul Khair Muhammad Zubair - JUP
Qari Abdul Hamid Qadri - JUP
Engineer Salimullah Khan – JUP
Muhammad Siddique Qadri - Convenor - ST
Maulana Muhammad Noor Al Mustafa Rizvi - ST
Malik Azhar Sandela - President - Pak Sunni Tanzeem
Maulana Ahmed Baksh Sandela - Pak Sunni Tanzeem
Maulana Allah Ditta - Pak Sunni Tanzeem
Maulana Mushtaq Ahmed Karo - Pak Sunni Tanzeem
Badar Zahoor Chishti - Anjuman e Talaba e Islam Lahore
Abu Zafar Saeed - Anjuman e Talaba e Islam Lahore
Maulana Abdus Sattar Saeedi - Organizer - Milad Committe Multan
Maulana Muhammad Ramzan Naqshbandi - Milad Committe Multan
Maulana Ghulam Qasim Noorani - Khateeb - Jamia Anwaar Ghausia
Mian Amir Mehmood Naqshbandi - President - Jamiat e Ulama e Mashaikh Youth Wing
Sheikh Abdul Karim - Anjuman e Ghulaman e Mustafa Pakistan
Hafiz Muhammad Akbar Jatoi - President - Anjuman e Fidayan e Mustafa Pakistan
Amir Shahzad Siddiqui - Chairman - Anjuman e Fikr e Insaniyat
Qari Muhammad Ismail Sulaimani - General Secretary - Jamiat e Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Lahore
Maulana Jamil Ahmed Naeemi - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Mufti Muhammad Jan Naeemi - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Allama Shabbir Ahmed Azhari - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Maulana Abdul Haleem Siddiqui - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Qazi Noorani - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Maulana Mukhtar Ahmed Qadri - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Maulana Rajab Ali Naeemi - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Maulana Abdul Ghaffar Owaisi - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Maulana Wazir Rehmani - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Maulana Bashir ul Qadri - Ulama e Ahle Sunnat Sindh
Syed Hamid Ashraf Shah Jilani - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Allam Nasim Ahmed Siddiqui - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Allama Ashraf Gormani - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Allama Shabbir Ahmed Ghaffari - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Allama Riazuddin Qadri - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Allama Abdullah Tayyab - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Allama Qari Muhammad Siddiqui - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Allam Farhat ul Qadri - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Allama Saeed ul Hassan - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Qari Maqsood ul Islam - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Haji Muhammad Hanif Bilour - Tehrik e Awam e Ahle Sunnat Pakistan
Syed Irshad Ali - Tehrik e Fidaiyan e Khatm e Nubuwwat
Maulana Abdul Halim Hazarvi - Tehrik e Fidaiyan e Khatm e Nubuwwat
Maulana Abdul Ghaffar Owaisi - Tehrik e Fidaiyan e Khatm e Nubuwwat
Muhammad Usman Khan Ghauri - Tehrik e Fidaiyan e Khatm e Nubuwwat
Maulana Bashir ul Qadri - Tehrik e Fidaiyan e Khatm e Nubuwwat
Maulana Rajab Ali Naeemi - Tehrik e Fidaiyan e Khatm e Nubuwwat
Qazi Ahmed Noorani - Tehrik e Fidaiyan e Khatm e Nubuwwat
Shia
Maulana Muhammad Afzal Haider - Central Secretary General - Wafaq e Ulema e Shia
Alhaaj Muhammad Riaz Rizvi - Central Chairman - Tehrik e Ittehad e Millat e Islamia Pakistan
Maulana Kazim Raza Naqvi - Jamia Almuntazir Lahore
Munawwar Abbass Alvi - President - Sipah e Muhammad Pakistan
Allam Mushtaq Hussain Jaffery - Head - Tehrik e Huqooq e Jaffaria Pakistan
Mirza Yusuf Hussain (Shia) - Chairman - Muslim Muttahida Mahaz Pakistan

Ahle Hadis

Allam Zubair Ahmed Zaheer - Central Ameer - Jamaat e Ahl e Hadis
Mian Muhammad Jamil - Secretary General - Jamaat e Ahl e Hadis
Hafiz Muhammad Naeem Butt - Central Secretary Information - Jamiat e Ahl e Hadis
Hafiz Abdul Majid Butt - Jamat e Ahle Hadis Pakistan
Maulana Abdur Rehman Salfi - Ameer - Jamat e Ghurba Ahle Hadis
Muhammad Idrees Hashmi - Secretary - Jamat e Ghurba Ahle Hadis Punjab
Maulana Muhammad Saeed - Ahle Hadis Youth Force
Muhammad Shoaib Ansari - Ahle Hadis Youth Forum
Saifullah - Ahle Hadis Youth Forum
Zahid Ansari - Ahle Hadis Youth Force
Sajid Ansari - Ahle Hadis Youth Force
Zahid Tariq - Ahle Hadis Youth Force
Haji Abdul Qayyum - Ahle Hadis Youth Force
Maulana Abdul Ghaffar Firdousi - President and Khateeb - Markazi Jamiat e Ahle Hadis Khanewal
Hafiz Salahuddin Yusuf - Khateeb - Jama Masjid Ahle Hadis Madani Road Mustafabad Lahore
Hafiz Muhammad Asghar - Khateeb - Jama Muhammadia Masjid Ahle Hadis Shadbagh Lahore

Tanzeem e Islami

Dr Israr Ahmed - Tanzeem e Islami
Dr Ghulam Murtaza Malik
Major General Rtd M H Ansari - Tehreek e Khilafat, Tanzeem e Islami
Naeem Akhtar Adnan - Vice Nazim Nashro Ashaat - Tanzeem e Islami

Jamat e Islami

Hafiz Muhammad Idris - Ameer - JI Punjab
Maulana Abdul Malik - Sheikh ul Hadis - Jamia Mansoora Lahore, Jamiat e Ittehad ul Ulama
Sardar Maqsood Hussain Tahir - Press Secretary - JI
Liaqat Baloch – JI

Naushaba Ahsan - JI
Farzana Cheema - JI
Sajida Zubairi - JI
Muhammad Qadeer - Member - JI Azad Kashmir
Maulana Fateh Muhammad - JI
Munawwar Ali Khan - Ameer - JI Sahiwal
Sheikh Shahid Hameed - Ameer - JI Sahiwal City
Dr Anwar ul Haq - JI Sahiwal City
Dr Akram Sheikh - JI Sahiwal City
Mushtaq Ahmed Khan - Ameer - JI Hyderabad
Chaudhry Mehmood Ahmed - JI Sahiwal City
Dr Abdul Sattar - JI Sahiwal City
Rao Masood Ali Khan - Shabab e Milli
Shahid Bilal - President - Shabab e Milli Lahore
Muhammad Muawiyah - Deputy Secretary - Shabab e Milli Lahore
Muhammad Azhar Naeem - Incharge Media Cell - Shabab e Milli Lahore
Abdur Rehman Faisal - Shabab e Milli Lahore
Tahir Shah - Shabab e Milli Lahore
Amir Nawaz Khan Kirmani - Shabab e Milli Lahore
Rana Nazim Javaid - Shabab e Milli Lahore
Rana Nazim - Deputy Secretary - Shabab e Milli Lahore
Muhammad Shafiq Butt - President - Shabab e Milli Punjab Lahore
Amanullah Khan Sayyal - Shabab e Milli

This list is available on following link
http://smhumayun.blogspot.com/2009/06/united-as-one-muslim-ummah-against.html

Jzakallah


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 06 2010 11:55:10 PM
Message:

:)

This is called to play "beeen" in front of ..........

Kazzaabs are kazzaabs, whoever they are or they were.

Fitnon kay baarey main Ahaadees maujood hain, aur aaj kay daur main itna tajarba honay kay baad bhi if somebody is inspired of factual fitna tu let him be inspired. Kisi ko Allah gumrah kar day tu uska koi solution nahi.

In Maulaanaao ko kisi aur baat ke fikar kyun nahi? Awaam kee kiya haalat hai? Kitni jahaalat hai? Kitni ghurbat hai? How much helpless we are? How much outdated and backward we are? What we need to do to transform into a super power? What technological advancement we need? How we can transform into self sufficient and economically viable nation? How can we convert people to Allah's deen globally? How can we inspire others? How can we look as followable to others? How can we become role model? How can we eliminate social injustice? What we should do to fight back social evils? How can we unite the different sects? How can we bring different school of thoughts at one point? How many people die for hunger every year? How many invalid babies born and are thrown out by virgin moms for dogs? How can they be grown up and given a status in society? How this bay-rah-rawi can be controlled? How many kids sleep without taking meals, so on and so forth....

We have bundles of problems, evils, issues that are needed to be resolved; par kia zaroorat hai sochnay ke? Yahaan iss qaum kay 90 percent betay (at least) rishwat letay hain, kisi ko koi parwah nahi? Kiaa yeh fitna nahi? Yahaan har cheez main dhoka aur milaawat shaamil hai, kiaa yeh fitna nahi? Yahaan ham itnay faqeer hain keh aaney waali generations loans main dabi hui hain, yeh fitna nahi kia? Muslim *****s and character-less people hamaari generations kay liyey celebrities hain, yeh fitna nahi? Har ghar main nude movies aur dances dekhay jaatey hain, yeh fitna nahi?

Ham say diseases control nahi hoteen, ham apni minerals aur reserves ko explore karnay kay qaabil nahi, ham USA say ammunition maangtay hain paisa maangtay hain roti maangtay hain, ham har baar zaleel logon ko hukamran bana letay hain, ham dunya say 200 saal peechay hain, kiyaa yeh sab fitnay nahi?

Un fitno ke fikar khaaey jaa rahi hai jo mar khap bhi chukay hain. Important is that keh woh fitnay mar khap bhi chukay hain. And we are not leaving that saga so far. Kyun? Because zubaani jama-kharach ham ko aataa hai aur woh ham buhat zyada kartay hain. Bey-amal tu ham hain he tu baatein tu kar saktay hain na. So kar rahey hain.

Bhaai khud ko strong karo; fitnay apni maut aap mar jaaein gey. Look at more important issues and problems. Prepare yourself keh Allah tumhara khauf kuffar kay dil main daal day. Believe you me aisee stories repeat (pidar-e-man sultaan bood) karnay say kuch honay wala nahi. Amal aur harkat ke zaroorat hai. Vision is required and hard work is required.

Yahaan ham nay qaadiyanion ko kaafar qaraar dilwa diya National Assembly say; ho gai baat. Unki activities par nazar rakho (Govt's duty). Baat khatam. Yousaf kazzab ko khattam kar dia gaya: ok aagey barho. Kai kazzaab aaey hongay aur chalay gaey hongay. Jehad hua ho ga, baat khattam ho gai ho gee. Yeh tu on-going process hai, yeh hamesha chalnaa hai. Koi buraai nahi iss par ghaur karnay aur nazar rakhnay main; laikan guzray saanp ke lakeer kab tak peeto gey. Bhaai aagey barho. Kuch aur bhi karo yaa bass aqal yahaan aa kar khattam ho jaati hai???

Kiyaa alfaaz select kiye hain GREAT KHAN nay; still sounding well. Bitter but fact:

"Fish market"


Regards,


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 07 2010 12:48:41 AM
Message:


M.R.S. (RIZWAN)

Thank you very much for posting such an informative material. I really appreciate it.

Some time back, I expressed my views about Kashmir fight that was taken so negatively by our Maulana fellows.

Thanks God we still have sensible, knowledgable and followable truth speaking Ulemas. God bless this man Mr. Mazhari for speaking truth in these difficult times.

BTW did you notice, you mentioned one name of Aalim-e-deen, and some one clicking your idea copied a long list (just to do what you have done). Logon ko jitnaa marzi samjhaa lo par nahi. Khair anyway.

Of course Kashmir fight is not the Ghazwa-tul-Hind (even if the Hadees is not fabricated; which I personally believe is a genuine Hadees). This is regional and political issue. India keeps on destabilizing us and our agencies reply it similarly in Kashmir and other places.

I will post a link here if available (I hope it would soon be available at Youtube) where Haafiz Saeed flately refused to have any linkage with any Jehadi (terrorist) activity in India and Indian Kashmir, in an Interview with Kamran Shahid (express news).

The people who are referred to in the said Hadees are not supposed to get refuge by speaking even a mild lie. Naoozbillah.

Thanks once again.


Regards,



Kamran.


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 07 2010 09:38:55 AM
Message:

Dear Awais,

Please don’t worry about me. I don’t care what people will think about me, but I will speak the truth. I neither need any certificate for my eman from any person nor do I issue any certificate of Kufr-o-Ilhad about anyone who claims his eman. I don’t know what treatment will be with me on the day of judgement. May be my eman will be thrown on my face. I follow the saying of Umer (R.A) who said if it would be announced on the day of judgement that everyone has been sent to Jannah (Bkhashish) except one person, I will think that it is Umer ibne Khatab. We unintentionally say so many things which are “Shirk” . As you said” Mere Nabi ki baat jhooti nhn ho sakti hum ko in baton pe hansna nhn chaye.” My brother he was not your Nabi. He was Nabi Allah. Should I say that Awais is claiming “Alwahiyat”? I should gather some emotional people and raid at your home without giving you an opportunity that you don’t mean that. I have hundred of witnesses that you wrote this statement.

My brother, I 100% what Kamran wrote so I won’t repeat to save time so please treat his answer as my answer. However, I would add that real jihad will be done in our universities, colleges, research institutions, stock exchanges, hospitals, when we will fight against poverty, illiteracy, disease, unemployment etc. I am astonished to see that a person like you who was educated at world’s best institutions thinks like that so I should not complaint to those suicide bombers who have been educated like you.

I won’t teach you history but it is important to give you some highlights. All our Ulema are heir of Anbiya (SAWS). Allah said to Prophet “Hikmat aur danai kay sath un ko bulao”. Yae humara nabi hay jo dalil per baat karta hay, Mayray monin banday is Quran per anday aur behroon ki tarhan nahi tootay partay. So as our Ulema did in the past. First fitna after Musilima arose in the time of Imam Bukhari, which was “Zohada and contamination of Ahadeeth”. Iman did not issue any fatwa of Kufr, but he worked hard and brought the true dean in light. Then fitna-e-khalq-e-quran which Imam Malik defended, then Fitna was “Shaikh Abne Arabi, Imam Sayooti defended and defeated him with logics, wisdom and knowledge, then was the issue of “Mansoor Bin Hallaj”. It was also dealt with the same skills by Muhammad Bin Dawood Az-Zaaheri (It took him anout 20 years to decide the case), then Rafai fitna, Imam Ibne Timimiya defended Islam, then was Muta izalla, It was also defeated. In the recent history Fitna-e-Dean-e-Ilahi. Mujadad Alaf sani and Allama Rasheed Nanatovi defended it and revived dean. Most recently was fitna-e-Pervaziyat which was dealt with by Mulana Modudi and Molana Abdur Rahman Kilani. They did not issue any fatwa of Kufr. They did not kill anyone except “Mansoor Bin Halaj” who openly admitted that he is God. Even his sentence was not just an emotional act. He was given full opportunity of being heard and declare his “Barraat” and state decided to kill him not the people.

My brother, we should not adopt a Taliban approach. Be rational and see things critically (To see thing as they are in the light of wisdom and intelligence). Don’t be emotional and adopt Gardan mardo attitude. You know very well that how many times Blasphemy act has been abused (It does not mean that Act is wrong). I do not want to write too much on this issue because I always avoid discussing religion.
I pray that Allah bless us with Aqal-e-Saleem and lastly I will quote

Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: padphoosilimdakar
Replied on: Mar 07 2010 3:37:39 PM
Message:

Mera sawal topic say thora hat ke hai.Qadianion ka pakistan say bahir kya status hai.Kya saudiarab aur degar muslim countries na bhi inko non muslim declare kia hai ya nahi?


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 07 2010 7:39:15 PM
Message:

A few countries have declared them non-muslim (not Kafir, to be more precised) and I believe these include Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and South Africa (on request of Muslims) etc.

However, your question is valid, they are treated as Muslims in majority of the countries of the world because those countries follow the rule of calling any one what "such any one" likes to be called.

Others may also enlight further.


Regards,


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 07 2010 9:24:32 PM
Message:

The purpose of writing the thread was to alert the new generation about the past of Zaid Hamid. Hence Rawalpindi and Islamabad is the main hub of activities of Zaid Hamid so I felt a need to write about his past. I did it only for the safety of thoughts of young generation.

In Rwp and Islamabad local leader of one religious party and AMTKN are trying to unveil the face of Zaid Hamid before the young generation. A joint press conference of ulema and leaders of religious political parties is also recommended.

I know very well the problems faced by the nation. mera taluq ek parhe likhe deeni gharane se ha. Main koyee intha pasand 2 rakat ka maulvi nhn hun jo nay jamanay k taqazor se be behra ho ker thori se english seekh ker accountacy forum pe apnee deeny aur duniwi knoledge ka sikka jamane agaya ho.Jhalat ha,ghurbat ha is ke khilaf bhee jhad hona chayee but Duniya Mafia se qeemti cheez Eman ha. Iski hifazat bhee zroori ha. Every problem is discussed at proper place and every topic and issue its own importance.

Some people think about me that I get influence from others ideas in simple words they want to prove me a duffer but I have self respect for each and every Muslim. Bhayee ageer main itna hi duffer hun to meri baton ko kisi pagal admi ki bakwas samajh ker ignore ker dia kero. I don’t think this thread appropriate place to defend myself .Islam gives the right of self respect to every Muslim but hum thore se ikhtilaf per apne musalman bhaion kee izat or abroo ko halal ker k uske waqar ki dhajion ura detain hain.. Quran o Hadees ek Musalman ko qabile ezat qarar dete hum quon hote hais kisi dosre musalmain ki ezat ko halal qarar dene wale???

As far as difference in interpretation of Hadis of Ghazwatul Hind is concerned it is healthy difference. Mere bhaion ikhtilaf ko rehmat qarar dia gaya ha. Ek dafa ghalban Imam Shafai (RA) Imame Azam Sayedul Fuqqah Janabe Abu Hanifa (RA) k mazar pe hazir hue Imam ne fajir kee namaz main Qunoot-e-Nazila nhn parhi kisi ne poocha ke apne qunoot qun chore dee to Imam ne Kha k Sahibe Mazar ka ehtiram malhooz ha.

Greatkan I know k blasphemy act misuse huwa ha aur hamare musalman bhayee bohat jaldi ishtial main ajate hain. 1993 ya 1994 main ek hujoom ne ek hafize quran ko qatal ker dia ye hadsa Gujranwala main pesh aya tha but beside all facts I strongly believe that all legal requirements of blasphemy act was fulfilled before giving punishment to Yousuf Kazab. That’s why all leaders of JI also in favour of this decision. I think this is only religious party whose leaders and workers are equipped with both worldly and religious education.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 07 2010 10:23:32 PM
Message:

"Paagal aadmi ke bakwas", nice selection and no one needs to interpret anything.

BTW fish market carried similar meanings as well.

Aik muslim (woh jitna bhi mistaken ya emotional kyun na ho) ko degrade kiaa jaa raha hai, "Ulema nay explanation maangi hai", bhaai yeh Ulema kaun hain explanation maangnay waalay?? It's GOVT's job to do so. Religious board hai, religious ministory hai, qaanoon (getting better these days) hai, police hai; yeh Ulema kaun hain at their own explanation maangnay waaley?

The concept of taking law in hands and feeling our selves best muslim (in most cases Wali-Allah), authority at our own, khud he muddai, khud he judge, khud he police, everything; yeh kab jaaey ge. These so called Ulemas have given rise to incidents like LAL MASJID.

If any body feels Zaid Hamid is doing punishable thing, he should register his complain in Police with evidences. Yeh JI aur doosray sab kiyaa authority hain? Koi bataaey ga?? Dunya main kahin bhi aisee authority hai kisi kay paas. Saudi Arab ke example he lay kay saabit kar do?

We don't know anything, we don't know Zaid Hamid's heart inside, he did not EVER said apparently anything by which he can be thought to not having a belief on Khatm-e-Nabbuwat. Over excited hai woh, aur woh aksar loge hotay hain. We have experience and observation and every one among us can judge better. Bhaai jee forum pay aik muslim ko kyun gandda kar rahey ho. Yeh new generation khud jaan jaaey ge sab haqeeqat, tum zyada laaiq ho? Agar ho tu pehlay woh kar lo jis maain aaj tak phanssay huey ho. Who are you to post defamatory things and links about any one against whom nothing has yet proved. Baat kee jaa rahi hai self respect ke. Inn parrots ko tu totay ke tarah rattaa lagwaya hota hai yeh beychaaray itnay qaabil he hain.

If some body says that something factual was posted, tu bhaai je tab kyun cheekhain nikal gai theen jab GREATKHAN nay tumhara zaati kacha chathaa kholaa tha forum pay. Woh sab bhi tu haqeeqat tha. Agar tum kisi ko jaahil, naa laaiq, 6 saal say fail honay wala etc kaha jaaey tu takleef hoti hai na? You know why you felt pain, because every one has self respect aur wohaan zore kee lagti hai. Jitni tumko lagti hai utni he Zaid Hamid ko bhi lagti ho ge? So, think a hundred time before posting defamatory things about people unless these are proved.

Tumhara koi bara aalim thaa tu zaroori nahi keh tum bhi aalim ho aur tum ko bhi khulli chhutti mil jaaey mazhabi issues par logon ko zaleel karnay ke. Kisi body builder ka beta ya pota body builder nahi hota merely for the reason that his father or grand father was body builder. Aisaa hotaa hai tu tumko bhi aalim maan letay hain.

Tumko itni taufeeq nahi, keh GreatKhan kay sawal ka jawab he day detay. I believe we are no body to pull you to soil for anything but GreatKhan pointed out that "by mistake" you have said something that is specific for GOD. Khud tu saari post parh lee aur iss baat ko explain karnay takk ke taufeeq nahi mili. Chalay ho logon say explanation maangnay.

Allah ka khauf bari achi cheez hai, woh kia karo; aur khopri thanddi rakha karo. Koi mazhab kay issue par tumhaari bajaanay aa gaya naa tu phir kaho gey self respect affect ho rahi hai.

Mazhab ka thekay-daar mat bano; please.

Post some logical things and we will appreciate it.


Regards,


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 07 2010 10:26:26 PM
Message:

Dear Awais,

Have you been practicing what you are preaching? If someone claims that he is Muslim, why you are insisting him to declare him non-muslim? Kamran very rightly quoted incident of Hazrat Ali (R.A), did open his heart and see that Zaid Hamid is non-muslim? We just can’t assess someone the basis of the past. Do you know that who damaged Muslims in War of Ditch and Khazwa-e-Auhad the most, before “Eman”. It was Khalid Bin Al-Waleed and Akerma bin Abu Jahal. Later these were the people who fought for Islam and eliminate Fitna-e-Musilima. These were the people who shattered density of Iran and Roman Empire. Hinda (RA) the bitterest enemy of Islam, fought against Roman, when Islam soldiers, were losing the battle. For detailed reading see “Sword of Allah” by Col. Ikram. What you are saying is an illogical reasoning to defame Zaid Hamid.

As far as JI is concerned, it is also another big chapter. We all are well aware of these people. I don’t want to open this chapter because it would definitely hurt religious feelings of many forum people. At least I just can’t dare to discuss validity of any Hadeeth, because I don’t have in-depth knowledge of Quan and Sunna and Fiqah. I think our great scholars during the history of 1400 have done great work on this. You can refer to their work and they have discussed each “word”, I am not exaggerating, each word of hundred of thousand of ahadeeth. If you read Tafseer ibne Kathir, he discussed Bissmila on 4-5 pages. This is a master peace discussion.

I do not challenge your family back ground. I am just trying to make you understand because I know there were many prophet whose even family members did not accept Islam and father of Ibrahim (AS) was Idol maker.

Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 07 2010 10:51:59 PM
Message:

Hi Awais,

One more thing, please check the validity of any incident before you quote. Imam Abu Hanifa declared that it is HARM to pray in any MAZAR. Ulema-edeodand also declared the same based on that fatva. How he can do it himself. Please refer to book of Imam Abu Yousuf. I would be glad if you could give some reference of this incidence.

Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: ACCAite
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 09:48:05 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by MRS

quote:
Originally posted by kamranACA

:)

People can figure out why I mentioned the name of Saddam!

BTW now we are used to read/listen such comec things. I hope it will take too long to rescind Ghazva (Naoozbillah) against our own selves initiated by us. Doosron ke fikar baad main karein gey.

Regards,
Kamran.



Agreed 100%

No one has right to pass judgement on someones faith its between allah and that individual.

with due respect to all members when ever i hear zaid hamid i cannot stop laughing . it is unbelievable that we have these kind of people who are dreaming of conquering other areas where as their own back yard is on fire.

Wake up guys, its a new world now.



WAKE up guys this is a new world? where we would love to stay as we are or get worse? if this keep progressing we could become slaves. Perhaps you need to travel around more, look and read up more brother...if your ' OK ' with what you have at the moment....your seriously misguided.


Reply author: MRS
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 10:26:09 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by ACCAite

quote:
Originally posted by MRS
Agreed 100%

No one has right to pass judgement on someones faith its between allah and that individual.

with due respect to all members when ever i hear zaid hamid i cannot stop laughing . it is unbelievable that we have these kind of people who are dreaming of conquering other areas where as their own back yard is on fire.

Wake up guys, its a new world now.


WAKE up guys this is a new world? where we would love to stay as we are or get worse? if this keep progressing we could become slaves. Perhaps you need to travel around more, look and read up more brother...if your ' OK ' with what you have at the moment....your seriously misguided.



Thank you dear for being very lenient by using words “Seriously Misguided” others would have challenged my EMAN.

If you really believe that only way to change the current scenario is by declaring JIHAD then i can only pray for you.

By the way what do you mean by traveling? I have been to six courtiers and have seen much of Pakistan you must mention the place where I can seek the guidance.

Dear I am not a learned person but have enough courage to read Ibn-e-Kathir and have tried to understand the works of Ghazali and Tabri. If you can suggest any other sources I will be indebt to you but just passing generalized comments will not help me to seek guidance.

I hope you will be kind enough to help me in seeking guidance.

Regards

M.Rizwan


Reply author: padphoosilimdakar
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 10:55:05 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kamranACA

A few countries have declared them non-muslim (not Kafir, to be more precised) and I believe these include Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and South Africa (on request of Muslims) etc.

However, your question is valid, they are treated as Muslims in majority of the countries of the world because those countries follow the rule of calling any one what "such any one" likes to be called.

Others may also enlight further.


Regards,




jawab ka shukrya.I read on wikipedia page regarding Ahmadiya community that Pakistan is the only country that has officialy declared qadianis as non muslims.Is lye main nay yeh sawal kia.


Reply author: padphoosilimdakar
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 11:04:32 AM
Message:

Awaisaftab aap nay pervaiziat ka zikr kya.Yeh konsa religion ya sect hai?


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 11:31:04 AM
Message:

ACCAite

The thing which you wish to point out (or which I feel you wished to) is understandable and yes it exists every where. We have to find out its roots; simply bluffing that we will crush India and Flag Dehli etc etc is inhuman and insensible in the time you are living at.

If you have travelled, I guess you should have learnt the reasons as to why we are ill-mannered, backward, outdated, dependent, and so on. Some other nations might be much ill-mannered when compared to us but our deficiency gets more highlighted when we are dependent upon them in every field of life.

We need to correct ourselves instead of gathering people against India or others. Correcting ourselves starts from correcting myself.

I wonder what you find wrong in it if we people laugh at Zaid Hamid. He is over excited, over emotional and a bit dumb minded which is reflective from the soultions he use to provide.

Personally I dont have any issue with him; however, he sometimes provide recreational opportunity, if we listen his views.

Regards,


KAMRAN.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 11:34:11 AM
Message:

GreatKhans

Have you ever seen "parrots" who are taught and trained how to speak?


Regards,


Reply author: ACCAite
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 1:19:59 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kamranACA

ACCAite

The thing which you wish to point out (or which I feel you wished to) is understandable and yes it exists every where. We have to find out its roots; simply bluffing that we will crush India and Flag Dehli etc etc is inhuman and insensible in the time you are living at.

If you have travelled, I guess you should have learnt the reasons as to why we are ill-mannered, backward, outdated, dependent, and so on. Some other nations might be much ill-mannered when compared to us but our deficiency gets more highlighted when we are dependent upon them in every field of life.

We need to correct ourselves instead of gathering people against India or others. Correcting ourselves starts from correcting myself.

I wonder what you find wrong in it if we people laugh at Zaid Hamid. He is over excited, over emotional and a bit dumb minded which is reflective from the soultions he use to provide.

Personally I dont have any issue with him; however, he sometimes provide recreational opportunity, if we listen his views.

Regards,


KAMRAN.




Kamran Saahab,

Over the India issue i dont agree with you, i dont say crush them right away or on the other extreme as you are, totally blaming ourselves. Sir, are we not aware of the fact that India can never be our friend? are they really our well wishers? i mean i hope you dont think that way. Eventually, only war will settle it...i hope not but it just seems to be the fate of India - Pak relationship. Looking at history, whats happening currently and how future is shaping...i dont think we can prepare ourselves just by blaming entirely ourselves Sir.

Regards


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 2:32:44 PM
Message:

Tu bhaai jee naa karo khud ko blame; and live a peacful life with the "khayaali pulaaos" people like Zaid Hamid prepare for you. You know I am not concerned with what he says or people influenced by him feel.

It's your sweet will. Mashallah every one can make a better judgement and take his own decision.

Regards,


Reply author: ACCAite
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 3:19:35 PM
Message:

Will do so, atleast i wont be shocked when after years of JEE SIR JEE SIR and improving myself i find out indian airforce fighter jets all over my heads.

regards


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 4:53:45 PM
Message:

ACCAite

If we will "improve" ourselves on all fronts then Indian jets will think one million times before crossing the boundary line; and if they will do they will in fact be crushed. Why don’t we see any material attacks on Germany, France, Switzerland, China, South Korea, Malaysia, Japan and all such countries (and others that are atomic power); is it for the reason that they have taken a lead to crush their neighborers? How many neighborers have been crushed by each of them? I guess none! Here we cannot quote examples of world wars since it has no linkage with the current days situation.

We are an atomic power, we have every thing as a base which any nation in the world requires for taking off. However, without correcting ourselves and doing what is required of us to do, we will end up in nothing but what we have seen in recent incidents and what we are observing all around.

I hope you might have heard the Joke regarding some lethargic Sardars who attacked their neighborhood village just anticipating that such neighborers will eat out their sugarcane that was YET TO BE CULTIVATED, on the inherited land; and who were asking the neighborers during fight "HORE CHOOPO".

Brother, there is no sense in "we will crush India" or similar slogans; This is nothing but self-deception. Check out critically what we are and what claims we make. This is what makes people to laugh.

Strengthen yourself, do what is needed to do at your part, keep your eyes and minds open, be a progressive nation, eliminate your own differences and hatreds, kill illiteracy and illiterate Mullah culture, kill dishonesty and transferring of responsibilities, curb out social evils, curb out nudity and unnecessary following of so-called advanced nations as well, unite your own people, love your people and culture, broaden your own mind and heart to accept others, take care for your own Flag that is at the moment a difficult task within our own country, bring in your own funds invested in Swiss banks instead of begging others to invest here, pay correct amount of taxes, bring in the system where peoples' money will not be mis-utilized for your ministers and officials, strengthen your economy to be self sufficient, bring in place the qualified, educated and committed people, develop effective and honest research institutions, bring in independent and honest judicial system (not merely judiciary), establish social justice ...........so on and so forth.

This is not something that can be achieved over-night. You need to refurbish your nation and systems as a whole from scratch. God has gifted us every thing but we are not up to the level where Allah hamara khauf hamaarey dushmano kay dil main daal day. And this is not gonna happen unless we remove our deficiencies.

Yes, ‘crush India slogans’ we are seeing and hearing from roughly 30 years; and this is nothing but a mad man’s dream. You need not to crush any one. Every one has a right to live his own life and have his own faith. If some one destabilizes you, then reply him in similar manner; but remember; beggars are not the choosers. Bring your self where no one dares to destabilize you. Bring in unity of your own people first of all. You in fact need to establish yourself. This is the only thing we require.

If you have different views or you find some other course of action practicable, I don’t mind at all. I said, every one can Mashallah think better and find better solution. Agreeing by others is not required in all cases.

Regards,



KAMRAN.


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 9:21:45 PM
Message:

Hi Kamran,

It was in truth a wonderful comment “Parrots” that exactly describes the situation. Actually this is a very old shop of “Islam” to sell hate against India, America and Israel and emotionalizing people in the name of Islam for their own benefits. They never bother to do any self assessment. It has become our second nature that to blame these countries instead of acknowledging our own responsibilities. If you see our behaviors, we are in the front line when it is matter of “Kill or die”. We emotionalize other by fastening “Kafan” on the heads of infants with “ALLAH HUAKBER”. But when it comes to information, knowledge, science, technology, ethics, morality etc, we hide our faces. We have to look towards other nations for these attributes. I remember, Dr. Ghulam Murtaza Malik a great scholar, once said that if our love one is sick and we desperately need a medicine, we go to pharmacy. The pharmacist say there are two medicines one is by Jewish company for Rs. 1,000.00 and the other is made by Alhaj, namzi, suami sheikh bala bala, forRs.500.00. What do we do? We don’t by product made by Alhaj sahib because we know the product is not good and buy product of Jewish company because he is selling the right product. Rassul Allah said “Har quam kay liya eik imtihan tha, Muslamnoon kay liya mal imtihan hay (My words). Now we have made “wealth our god”.

Have you even seen, people who sell vegetables and park their stall (Thala) in front of their houses and sit at the corner of the street and advise Obama how to resolve world economic crises whereas are they are not able to resolve their own economics, they tell America how to settle Afghan & Iraq issues and don’t meet with their own siblings for years. I call them “Shiday”. These shiday resolve almost every problem of the world but except their own problems. You may see these “Shiday” everywhere in our society. Some Shiday are Thakaydar of Islam. They have never read Quran, Hadeeth, Fiqah, history, science, technology etc and issue certificates of “Kufr and termination of Nikah”. They don’t have a sharp knife in their houses and chant slogans destroying India, America and Israel. They forget what Israel did in 1957, 1963 and 1973 with allied Islamic forces. They don’t know the number of PhDs in science in technology in Tel Aviv University is 10 times more than the PhDs in entire Muslim world.

In the glorious era of Islamic kingdom, we were also supreme in science, technology, art, literature, etc. We can do that now too. But we need to plan for next 50 years, and stick to that plan with great commitment, devotion, and dedication and achieve our target.

Please pray that may Allah bless us with Aqal-e-salim (Amin),

Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 9:33:13 PM
Message:

These are interesting figure compiled by: Extracts of speech by; Hafez A.B Mohamed: Director-General, Al Baraka Bank.

Why made muslim's weak?


Demographics:

o World Jewish Population. 14 million
o Distribution: 7 m in America
5 m in Asia
2 m in Europe
100 thousand in Africa
o World Muslim Population: 1.5 billion
o Distribution: 1 billion in Asia/Mid-East
400 M in Africa
44 M in Europe
6 M in the Americas
o Every fifth human being is a Muslim.
o For every single Hindu there are two Muslims
o For every Buddhist there are two Muslims
o For every Jew there are 107 Muslims
o Yet the 14 million Jews are more powerful than the entire 1.5 billion
Muslims

Why?

Here are some of the reasons:

Movers of Current History
o Albert Einstein Jewish
o Sigmund Freud Jewish
o Karl Marx Jewish
o Paul Samuelson Jewish
o Milton Friedman Jewish




Medical Milestones
o Vaccinating Needle: Benjamin Ruben Jewish
o Polio Vaccine Jonas Salk Jewish
o Leukaemia Drug Gertrude Elion Jewish
o Hepatitis B Baruch Blumberg Jewish
o Syphilis Drug Paul Ehrlich Jewish
o Neuro muscular Elie Metchnikoff Jewish
o Endocrinology Andrew Schally Jewish
o Cognitive therapy. Aaron Beck Jewish
o Contraceptive Pill Gregory Pincus Jewish
o Understanding of Human Eye. G. Wald Jewish
o Embryology. Stanley Cohen Jewish
o Kidney Dialysis Willem Kloffcame Jewish

Nobel Prize Winners
o In the past 105 years, 14 million Jews have won 180 Nobel prizes
whilst 1.5 billion Muslims have contributed only 3 Nobel winners

Inventions that changed History
o Micro- Processing Chip. Stanley Mezor Jewish
o Nuclear Chain Reactor Leo Sziland Jewish
o Optical Fibre Cable Peter Schultz Jewish
o Traffic Lights Charles Adler Jewish
o Stainless Steel Benno Strauss Jewish
o Sound Movies Isador Kisee Jewish
o Telephone Microphone Emile Berliner Jewish
o Video Tape Recorder Charles Ginsburg Jewish

Influential Global Business
o Polo Ralph Lauren Jewish
o Coca Cola Jewish
o Levi's Jeans Levi Strauss Jewish
o Sawbuck's Howard Schultz Jewish
o Google Sergey Brin Jewish
o Dell Computers Michael Dell Jewish
o Oracle Larry Ellison Jewish
o DKNY Donna Karan Jewish
o Baskin & Robbins Irv Robbins Jewish
o Dunkin Donuts Bill Rosenberg Jewish

Influential Intellectuals/ Politicians
o Henry Kissinger , US Sec of State Jewish
o Richard Levin, PresidentYaleUniver sity Jewish
o Alan Greenspan , US Federal Reserve Jewish
o Joseph Lieberman Jewish
o Madeleine Albright , US Sec of State Jewish
o CasperWeinberger , US Sec of Defence Jewish
o Maxim Litvinov , USSR Foreign Minister Jewish
o DavidMarshal , Singapore Chief Minister Jewish
o Isaacs Isaacs, Gov-GenAustralia Jewish
o Benjamin Disraeli, British Statesman Jewish
o Yevgeny Primakov, Russian PM Jewish
o Barry Goldwater , US Politician Jewish
o Jorge Sampaio, President Portugal Jewish
o Herb Gray, Canadian Deputy - PM Jewish
o Pierre Mendes, French PM Jewish
o Michael Howard, British Home Sec. Jewish
o Bruno Kriesky, Austrian Chancellor Jewish
o Robert Rubin , US Sec of Treasury Jewish

Global Media Influential
o Wolf Blitzer, CNN Jewish
o Barbara Walters ABC News Jewish
o EugeneMeyer , Washington Post Jewish
o Henry Grunwald, Time Magazine Jewish
o Katherine Graham , Washington Post Jewish
o Joseph Lelyeld, New York Times Jewish
o Max Frankel, New York Times Jewish

Global Philanthropists
o George Soros Jewish
o Walter Annenberg Jewish

Why are they powerful? why are Muslims powerless?
Here's another reason. We have lost the capacity to produce knowledge.

o In the entire Muslim World (57 Muslim Countries) there are only
500 universities.
o In USA alone, 5,758 universities
o In India alone, 8,407 universities
o Not one university in the entire Islamic World features in the Top
500 Ranking Universities of the World
o Literacy in the Christian World 90%
o Literacy in the Muslim World 40%
o 15 Christian majority-countries, literacy rate 100%
o Muslim majority - countries , None
o 98% in Christian countries completed primary
o Only 50% in Muslim countries completed primary.
o 40% in Christian countries attended university
o In Muslim countries a dismal 2% attended.
o Muslim majority countries have 230 scientists per one million Muslims
o The USA has 5000 per million
o The Christian world 1000 technicians per million.
o Entire Arab World only 50 technicians per million.
o Muslim World spends on research/developmen t 0.2% of GDP
o Christian World spends 5 % of GDP

Conclusion:
o The Muslim World lacks the capacity to produce knowledge.

Another way of testing the degree of knowledge is the degree of
diffusing knowledge.

o Pakistan 23 daily newspapers per 1000 citizens
o Singapore 460 per 1000 citizens.
o In UK book titles per million is 2000
o In Egypt book titles per million is only 17

Conclusion:
o Muslim World is failing to diffuse knowledge

Applying Knowledge is another such test.

o Exports of high tech products from Pakistan is 0.9% of its exports.
o In Saudi Arabia is 0.2%
o Kuwait , Morocco and Algeria 0.3%
o Singapore alone is 68%

Conclusion.
o Muslim World is failing to apply knowledge.

What do you conclude? no need to tell the figures are speaking
themselves very loudly we are unable to listen

Advice:

Please educate yourself and your children. always promote education,
don't compromise on it, don't ignore your children's slightest
misguidance from education (and please, for God's Sake, don't use your
personal contacts or sources to promote your children in their
education; if they fail, let them and make them learn to pass; b/c if
they can't do it now, they can't ever).
We are World's biggest and strongest nation, all we need is to
identify and explore our ownselves. Our victory is with our knowledge,
our creativity, our literacy...And nothing else.


....Wake up...!


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 10:46:24 PM
Message:

GreatKhan

I wish I could meet you some time. You made my day; believe you me we rarely meet such a mature, sensible and truthful person.

Accept my thanks and gratitude for being considerate, truthful and blunt.

I appreciate your analysis (even if it is of some one else; as you explained) and figures produced.

One thing; please check the figure of 3 Nobel Prize winners among Muslims. I doubt one out of three was Qaadiyaani. So, there may be a need to reduce this figure to 2 instead of three.

A few million qaadiyanis could have produced one nobel prize winner and we are planning to crush India, Israel and US regardless of being the worst and most illiterate and outdated in the universe. Kamaal kay loge hain ham bhi.

I am of strong view that we cannot make any dream come true unless we correct ourselves and do what all other nations which have supermacy have done over the ages.

Allah never changes any one's condition unless they wish to do so at their own and make all required efforts as well.this message is also given in Holy Quran. It's not merely something said by Iqbal.

Believe you me "parrots" cannot understand it.


Regards,



Kamran.


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 08 2010 11:32:28 PM
Message:

Hi Kamran,

Thanks for your appreciation. You are right that Allah never changes any one's condition unless they wish to do so at their own and make all required efforts as well. You are also very right to point out one of the noble prize holders. In fact your analyses were also so accurate that I said these are my analysis. I am happy to see that we are on the same page.

I would also like to highlight one more thing that is very important to me. Kahtay hain kah hijaroon kay ghar eik bacha pada ho gaya aur unhoon nay us ko choom choom kar mardiya. Almost this is the same situation with our nuclear program. There are about 11 nuclear powers declared or undeclared, and many more have capability to assemble it, in the world, but no one of them made it as controversial as we have made our program. Our Govt. is also using a suicide approach. Even in very small matters we boost that we will use our arsenals on India. This is a rubbish approach. It is nothing but a deterrent for balance of power. Naturally we did not make them to put in showcase; everyone knows that we or any other country may use it when it is a matter of survival, but we need to be sensible and responsible while we are discussing it. I am afraid that hamaray kuchh nadan doust us ko choom choom kar na mardain.

Regards,

GREAT KHAN


Reply author: Dard
Replied on: Mar 09 2010 01:23:00 AM
Message:

Great information and analysis! Thanks Greatkhan
Can you please check about any muslim country not being in the top 500 universities of the world? University of Lahore claims to be. And i heard Quaid-e-Azam university is in the top 500 too? Is it true?


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 09 2010 06:54:53 AM
Message:

Hi Dard,

According to data of January 2010 there is slight improvement in Saudi Universities which is as under:

King Saud University ranks 199
King Fahd Abdul Aziz University of Petroleum ranks 404
King Abdul Aziz University ranks 496

Pakistani universities are not even in top 1000 universities.Lahore University of Management Sciences ranks 2078 which is the best university in Pakistan.

Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: Dard
Replied on: Mar 09 2010 08:53:51 AM
Message:

Thank you GreatKhan sir
If i ask further about this university thing it will lead to out-of-topic discussion. Hence i am initiating another topic about universities: Why are not Pak universities in top 500?


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 09 2010 09:13:13 AM
Message:

I have never claimed that I am a religious scholar or Aalim. The purpose of thread has fullfilled the purpose was to alert the people not to declear anyone a non-muslim.Main ne kisi ko kafir qarar nhn dia aur na hi main is baat ka haq rakhta hun ke kisi ke eman aur islam k bare main fatwa doon.
Greatkhan Ap k sawalon k jawab main zroor donga lekin zara mahol thanda hone dain, I think you understand.


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 09 2010 09:55:53 AM
Message:

Hi Awais,

My view point and I think that Kamran is also on the same page, is that we should think big, resolve petty differences, broaden our hearts and open minds, admit & analyze our weaknesses, take rational measures to remove them, and do something for the well being of our nation by imparting education, eliminating illiteracy and poverty, rendering better health services, clean drinking water, women endowment,doing true research etc.

I would be waiting for your responses however, "Aslaf hi hadiya ukhar nay say koi faida nahi ho ga". Although I would like to discuss each line of your response in the light of history. But I would suggest you to discuss about today and about the future of our next generation.

Regards,

GREAT KHAN


Reply author: MRS
Replied on: Mar 09 2010 11:10:10 AM
Message:

Well said Great Khan

The punch line for me is....

quote:
Originally posted by Greatkhans

Hi Kamran,

They never bother to do any self assessment.

Regards,

GREAT KHANS




Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 09 2010 11:28:49 AM
Message:

Dear Fellows

Can we post defamatory links and material about others (WITHOUT ANY FACTUAL PROOF) in order to alert the people?

What will happen if we start doing it about every one; specially the ones who “serve their purpose” by posting such stuff?

I believe if one needs “self respect”, he should take very much care for others’ self respect as well.

Regards,


KAMRAN


Reply author: explosivetruth
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 12:25:55 AM
Message:

All brothers and Sisters , Plz read this document about zaid hamid and u ll come to know so many answers of ur questions,,, follow this link plz
http://www.scribd.com/doc/27896180/Reply-to-Zaid-Hamid-s-defend-of-Yusuf-Kazzab


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 12:59:30 AM
Message:

Fish market.

Here comes another.........


Regards,


Reply author: Schuaeb
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 06:57:08 AM
Message:

The nobel laureate referred to as Qadyani was a Pakistani as well! Thing to be happy about is that where a few million qadyani's have produced a nobel laureate at least 17 million Pakistanis also have done the same. Though surely something not to be complacent of. As Iqbal said nahin he na ummeed Iqbal apni kasht-e-vairan se, though I often wonder on what ground he was not na-ummeed.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 09:17:18 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by explosivetruth

All brothers and Sisters , Plz read this document about zaid hamid and u ll come to know so many answers of ur questions,,, follow this link plz
http://www.scribd.com/doc/27896180/Reply-to-Zaid-Hamid-s-defend-of-Yusuf-Kazzab



Nice contribution.


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 09:21:24 AM
Message:

Hi Scheaeb,

Iqbal also said what Kamran referred from Quran:

Khuda nay ajj tak us qaom ki halat nahi badli
Na ho khiyal jis ko ap apni halat badalnay kha

@Awais,

Congratulation, you got a companion.

Qais jangal may hay akayla mujhay janay do
Khoob guzray gi jo mil jaingay diwana do

Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: shani420
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 11:14:15 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Schuaeb

The nobel laureate referred to as Qadyani was a Pakistani as well! Thing to be happy about is that where a few million qadyani's have produced a nobel laureate at least 17 million Pakistanis also have done the same. Though surely something not to be complacent of. As Iqbal said nahin he na ummeed Iqbal apni kasht-e-vairan se, though I often wonder on what ground he was not na-ummeed.




Abdus Salam was a Pakistani but he didn't won Nobel prize solely.He shared this Nobel prize of Physics with Sheldon Glashow and Steven Weinberg(it was their joint research) in 1979.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 12:57:07 PM
Message:

MAIN TO AKELAY HI CHALLA THA JANIBE MANZIL
LOG ATAY GAY QAFLA BANTA GAYA!!!!!!!!!!!!

PL CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG


Reply author: yasir_live
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 1:25:56 PM
Message:

Great Khan And Other Contributors of this thread!

Sher-o-Ishaar ka Jawaab Ikhlaqan Sharo-Shaieri main hi hona chaiyay!

Regards,


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 2:54:33 PM
Message:


Though not straightforwardly linkable but the poetry I read makes me to write;

Tu nay dekhi hai woh peshaani, woh rukhsaar, woh hont!

Zindagee jin kay tassawar main lutaa de ham nay!

Tujh pay uthi hain woh khoyee hui saahar aankhein!

Tujh ko maloom hai kyun umar ganwa dee ham nay!!!


Regards,


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 3:06:36 PM
Message:

Dears

Iqbal, as a human being, was a common man having all attributes of a common human being. This is what his son has also confirmed time and again and this is what we learn by looking at the history.

I know no body is saying here; but just wish to clarify that unlike majority of us feel, he was not among the Wali-Allahs. He was as normal as many of us could be.

Yes; in his literary work and thought he was extremely amazing though I believe he got so much inspiration from Maulana Roomi in building up the basic design of his idealogy.

I also have reasons to believe that the concept of "Khudi" specifically expressed in his "Baal-e-Jibraeel" was inspired and borrowed from the concept of "Ana-al-Haq" of Hussain Bin Mansoor Hallaaj.

If some one objects it irrationally, he should make a comparative study of "Al-Tuaaseen" written by Hussain Bin Mansoor with Baal-e-Jibraeel.

Yet, he was a great poet and his work will remain alive for ever and keep on inspiring the generations to come.


Regards,



Kamran.


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 6:11:46 PM
Message:

Hi Yasir,

Shaar I wrote is a symbolic one. Dewana doesn't mean "Paranoid”. It means that having same views or “Hamkhiyal”. I know our new generation also has some lacking in Urdu literature. However, sticking to the main issue, my view is still vivid clear that instead of splashing mud on each other and issuing fatawas of Kufr-o-Ilhad, we should focus to understand the demands of the time that is rebuilding of our moral characters and enhancing education to revive our nation as progressive, modern, and glorious nation once again. Again it doesn’t mean that we should depart from our religion, culture, traditions and values. We have been fighting fruitlessly for last hundreds of years. If you go in the recent history of subcontinent, so called Ulma declared Printing Press, Laud speakers, radio, television, etc “HARAM”. But at the end of the day, these things have become an integral part of our life. I strongly believe that education is the only gateway of prosperity, progress and well being.

Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 10:10:40 PM
Message:

Great Khans

You mentioned "dewana"; and some one here said others should consider his sayings as "paagal aadmi ke bakwaas".

Here I don't know why but a link appears between Dewana and Paagal. If the meanings of these both words is taken to be same then a unified conclusion can be arrived at.

What you are saying is a thing which looks the only practicable solution to every one who is not a part of fish market and who is not a parrot.

However, I regrettfully call your attention that these parrots being taught by you have expired the age of learning; and any thing told by you will not be understood by such parrots.

Regards,



Kamran.


Reply author: Dard
Replied on: Mar 11 2010 11:47:10 PM
Message:

Janaab e Aali(everyone), kindly don't argue in this way by using words like "parrot". Everyone can have difference of opinion, which should be respected


Reply author: Greatkhans
Replied on: Mar 12 2010 08:31:28 AM
Message:

Hi Kamran,

I agree that some people can never understand and sometime they understand but reject things intentionally. Very few people know that Abu Jahl was one of the key critics of literature at that point of time but still he was Abu Jahl, because he rejected “Risalat of the Prophet” knowingly and willingly. Our job is to deliver the truth; acceptance or rejection is everyone choice. I am an ordinary man, even prophets could not make people understand and their nations destroyed by the curse of Allah the Almighty. We are fortunate that we are Umah of the Prophet so we have not been destroyed, but we have been indulged in the slavery of other nations.


History is the best teacher so once again I would like to open the window of the history. When Ganges Khan invaded Baghdad and started slaughtering Muslims, these so called Ulma were having Manazaras and discussing that how many angels could sit on the top of a needle? When Halako Khan invaded Baghdad and massacred Muslims, an old lady stopped her horse and said, you are brutal and there would be curse of Allah on you. Halako said, oh lady, in fact your Khalifa was brutal, and I am the curse your Allah promised with you.

When Tamoor Lang conquered IsPhahan, he issued a general amnesty for those who won’t fight. One emotional iron smith delivered an emotional speech and gathered a few hundred people who started fighting with Tamoor’s army. As a result some 130,000 people were massacred because of his stupidity. This is one of the greatest massacres of the history. Don’t go too far, in 2001 Sofi Muhammad gathered thousands of tribal people in the name of Islam and left for Kabul to help Talibans. When Northern Alliance entered into Kabul, Talibans left these helpers sleeping and fled from Kabul. The next morning, Northern Alliance killed thousands of our tribal people.

I would ask these emotional people, YAR INDIA KAY CHAKAR MAIN MARWA MAAT DANA.


As far as stanza is concerned, it is really misfortunate that some people don’t understand poetry. I would conclude on another comic stanza,

Khila kar bhunay titar jan dali tanay murda main
Terae hotel ka bara Ibn-e-Marium hua jata hay

It doesn’t mean that bara has been Jesus, it means that he has got such qualities.

@Dard, Kamran is right. If people don't use their mind and speak someone else words are called parrots. Yae totay woh hi boltay hain jo rataya jata hay.

Regards,

GREAT KHANS


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 12 2010 5:44:53 PM
Message:

Dard

Parrot is not to be taken in the meaning of parrots as "bara" cannot be considered Iban-e-Maryam.

It is a symbolic word and means what have been explained by GreatKhans.

When you see people declaring each other as "kaafir" or non-muslim or provoking others to do so; when you see people looting own shops and firing own properties for something filthy done by Denmark; when you see people writing indecent unproven stuff about others and yet talking about "self respect"; and when you see people discussing how many angels can sit on a needle then remember you are seeing "parrots".

I hope you will understand.


Regards,



Kamran.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 13 2010 10:34:28 AM
Message:

I don't want to use any harsh word on this thread where Ahadees are quoted. I never give value to personal attacks issues are more important for me. If one thinks that I am discussing non-issues then he or she should not contribute on this non-issue. Why they are increasing value of a non-issue by continuous posting of long replies. I am responsible for my own acts no one should take care of my acts. I will never permit to anyone to interfere in my core personal matters it is my headache that how much time I take to qualify ICMA. As far as the authenticity of material posted by me against zaid Hamid is concerned I think it is authentic and valid and don’t have any need to get certificate of its authenticity from anyone.


As far as the self respect of Zaid Hamid is concerned see his recent videos in which he used very rough language against our Religious Scholars and Ulemas. He categorically used the term of “Do
Takkay K Maulvi” for Ulema. Finally I don’t want to enter in any battle of words I have respect for every member of the forum and expect same from other members.



Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 13 2010 10:36:12 AM
Message:

On Thursday March 11, 2010 Maulana Saeed Ahmed Jalalpuri, along with his son and son-in -law, killed by some terrorists in Karachi.
(Inna Lillahe Wa Inna Elehe Rajeoon)
He was coming back from mosque. He was the leader of Aalmi Majlise Thafuzze Khatme Nabuwat. May Almighty Allah shower his countless blessings on Maulana Saeed Ahmed. He gave the replies to religious queries of people in “Daily Jang”in column entitled as “Apke Masail Aur Unka Hal”. Before his death he gave the answer of allegation put on him by Zaid Hamid. He said that he is ready to go in any court on reopening of the case of Yousuf Kazzab.

Awais Aftab


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 13 2010 2:46:36 PM
Message:


Dears

I don't wish to probe for which Maulvis, Zaid Hamid said "do takkay kay maulvi", but am sure that there are a number of Maulvis who may fall in such category. That’s what has been named as fish market stuff by one of our fellows. However, I feel such "Do Takkas" are not a worth in such a period of high inflation. It may be two thousand takkas (or more) at least in current scenario.

Every sort of people can be found in every group and category and considering that some of the Maulvis may also be affected by the social evils is not a Taboo. Certainly they are also common human beings. However, defaming some one “BY NAME” is illicit, critical, unjust, soiled, and beyond the moral values unless there is a proven material and unless if the person being defamed has his-self provoked some one to do so.

Certainly we are not discussing noble people of Allah (including Ulemas) who are not finding their livelihood by using the name of Islam. Certainly we are also not a judge to any ones’ faith, character, or belief. This is what this whole thread has been endeavoring to prove and this is what “parrots” don’t understand.

BTW no one mentioned anything specifically about ICMA (which I hope is not an abbreviation used for any qualification in the world) with reference to any forum member on this thread. Is it some chore ke daarhi main tinka sort of issue?

When some one feels that “he is responsible for his acts”, he should learn and understand that “every one” including Zaid Hamid is also responsible for his acts and no one allowed such “some one” to post derogatory stuff about any one merely on the basis of unproven allegations. I wonder why people (may be of “do takkas or more) ignore the fact that they are neither a judge on any one, nor an authority to “call for explanations” from any one. If they have complaint for anything they can register their complaint with law enforcers. Any thing to the contrary is Jahalat; is destructive; and is aimed at taking of laws in hand, and provokes the people for unrest and destabilization of society. This has continuously been deteriorating the mankind generally and our religion and cause specifically. We must learn to be a disciplined, literate, enlightened, and focused nation without losing our cause and our faith; and there are very logical and moral modalities to do so. The teachings of Holy Quran, Ahaadees and Uswa-e-Hasna are collectively a best light which can show us the righteous path and a best treasure which we have for all the times. Muslims should be the most learned and logical among all the religions and all the nations. Alas, at the moment this is not the case; and a sheer example of this we can also see at this thread merely by reading some of the initial senseless posts.

A nice question; why lengthy posts are submitted to the forum? The ICMA fellow (which I hope is not a designation or qualification any where) should understand that it is not his importance that makes the others to do so. If he wishes to get relieved of continuous replies, he should do the needful. Otherwise this is a public forum and this carries all the meanings which I don’t wish to explain at the moment. If need will arise, I will deliberate it as well to the extent of my understanding.

Regards,



KAMRAN.


Reply author: Dard
Replied on: Mar 13 2010 8:05:19 PM
Message:

I know what parrots in this context meant
If this Zaid Hamid is the same person who SUPPORTED that guy who claimed naboowat, then he should have been punished right away!!!


Reply author: MRS
Replied on: Mar 13 2010 11:05:34 PM
Message:

Just want to share a piece of information.

According to Today’s edition of Dawn, Mr. Zaid Hamid has been nominated in murder of Mr.Saeed jalalpuri. FIR is registered by his followers.

Needless to say this will enhance his popularity and will get more media coverage.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 13 2010 11:33:00 PM
Message:

Dard

We are not a judge to "ifs" and "buts"; and we are not morally permitted to impose such allegations on a person who openly accepts Khatam-e-nabuwwat.

We are also not carrying any authority to ask for "explanations" and "decide" any one's case.

If any of us has any complaint he should do what is required from a responsible citizen instead of defaming any one without a solid reason. A sincere and desciplined citizen should forward/register his complaint about any one at right forum and right level taking the support of law.

Yousaff Kazzaab's claims don't make every one punishable who had have any link with him. A man is responsible for his own deeds; and his friends circle, his relataives and siblings or others cannot be punished merely for the reason of such deeds. If this is done, this would be most unjust and inhuman act.

Zaid, what I know, has never advocated any false prophet claimant in such a capacity and for such a claim. And he has openly told every one that he has fullest belief on Khaatam-al-Anbiyaa P.B.U.H. So, it is shameful to allege a muslim in this way.

We know conspiracies have never left our nation; and it is quite customery to raise such an issue to defame any one specially the one who wishes to stand against the "customery" mullah mindset (that is called parrots). The public that follows such created mobs are real idiots. Such idiots have even killed a Hafiz-e-Quran merely for doubted blasphemy that was in fact unproven and a baseless allegation. Such idiots fire out police stations and national assets as has been done recently at Faisalabad. Such idiots rob our own peoples shops when Denmark acts something soiled. So it's imperative to discourage such destructive approach

Majority of blasphemy cases in Pakistan are malicious, ficticious and based upon personal issues. No one ever comes forward to hang the ones who make false allegations. This is what actually happens.

You know this Zaid Hamid (who is over ambitious and over excited) has called some Mullahs as "do takkay kay maulvi", so "parrots" were quite expected to dig out some burried skeltons, modify them for their own cause and after mispainting prove to Zaid that "you see what we are and what we can do".

These parrots are too harmful and dangerous. They are habitual of declaring every one as "Kaafir" (not even "non-muslim", rather "kaafir") who opposes their idiotic mentality. Pakistan has lead to a situation (where we are) simply because nation has always thought them to be a ray of hope.

May Allah save every one from "sharr" and keep every one in his greatest "panah".


Regards,



Kamran.


Reply author: MRS
Replied on: Mar 13 2010 11:40:18 PM
Message:

As already mentioned i am no fan of Zaid Hamid infact on the contrary i consider him as a person suffering from psychological disorder. But i have found some thing on internet which seems relevant to the subject of this thread so i am pasting the information below.
-----------------------------------


Dr Israr Ahmed’s statement on “Syed Zaid Zaman Hamid” as reported BY ZAID'S WEB-SITE:

http://pakistankakhudahafiz.wordpres...ng-zaid-hamid/

“We appreciate their support for the cause of Khilafate Rashida and Riba free economy. We also respect their opinion on our Natioanl Security Strategy policy and our strategy to carry this mission forward. We truly appreciate their sincere and clear stance on these issues.”

Dr Israr Ahmed’s Actual Press Release:

http://i43.tinypic.com/s62lpg.jpg

I will only translate bits as I am very busy but if someone wants a FULL VERBATIM TRANSLATION it can be arranged…

Zaid Hamid Saheb met Dr Israr Ahmed and his views on the future of Pakistan and resurgence of Islam were appreciated by Dr Israr Ahmed. Shortly thereafter there was a convention on “India’s aggressive stance and the role of UN Security Council” in which Zaid Hamid was also invited.

After the convention it was brought to our attention that Zaid Hamid’s personality is dubious because of his links with Yusuf Khadaab and the court case in which Yusuf Khadaab (Yusuf, the Liar) was awarded the death penalty was brought to our attention, we were unaware of it previously.

When Zaid Hamid Saheb was originally queried about the matter he initially denied all links but afterwards his views came to light that there were many lies attributed to (Yusuf, the Liar) which were not true BUT Zaid Hamid denied any knowledge and connection of his ideologies which he held in his last days.

To us, if a Muslim repents of his previous thoughts and also announces his dissociation with the person who espoused and propagated these false ideologies then such a person should be willingly accepted as a member of the Islamic Ummah BUT his ideas and thoughts SHOULD BE JUDGED according to the Qur’aan and the Sunnah for the foreseeable future. In order to ascertain the present thoughts and ideologies of Zaid Hamid a delegation from Tanzeem-e-Islami met him and he clearly said:

1) He believes in the Finality of the Prophethood of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) an curses all claimants to Prophethood

2) Furthermore , curse of Allah (SWT) be upon those are guilty of blasphemy upon Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam)

3) He had associations with “Yusuf Ali” but he disassociates himself from the beliefs and ideologies of Yusuf Ali’s last days

Our delegation requested him that he should clearly pronounce and publicise his three statements on his website and his FACEBOOK page and he accepted the reasons for it. If he does we will be grateful.

We would like to ABSOLUTELY MAKE IT CLEAR that as far Zaid Hamid’s views are concerned on establishment of Khilafah, prohibition of Interest/Usury, US/Hindu/Zionist agendas we generally agree with him.

But we disagree with the Pakistani Government policies adopted after 9/11, Lal Masid/Jamia Hafsa (Military) operation, Swat/Malakand/Tribal (Military) operation and we consider them extremely serious and deadly for Islam and Pakistan and we also disagree with the mixed gatherings and consider them to be at odds with the demands and requirements of Islamic Shariah.


Reply author: Muhammad Amir
Replied on: Mar 15 2010 02:52:29 AM
Message:

Zaid Hamid condemns the murder of Maulana Sayeed Ahmed Jalalpuri.

http://pakistankakhudahafiz.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/brasstacks-press-release-murder-of-mufti-jalalpuri/

Dr. Israr Ahmed sets the record straight regarding Zaid Hamid.

http://pakistankakhudahafiz.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/dr-israr-ahmed-sets-the-record-straight-regarding-zaid-hamid/



Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 15 2010 4:44:46 PM
Message:

Yousuf Kazzab's case have 2 aspects first is legal and second is Sharayee
The books and records which I have been continuously consulting to examine linkage between Zaid Hamid and Yousuf Kazzab is as follows:

1. YOUSUF KAZZAB BLASPHEMY CASE by MR. MOHAMMAD ISMAEEL QURESHY
Sr. Advocate Supreme Court of Pakistan
2. Rehber k Roop Main Rehzan by Maulan Saeed Ahmed Jalalpuri Shaheed
(In this books he quoted statement of Maulana Ismail Shujabadi that Zaid Hamid had been appearing in court in almost all legal proceedings of Blasphemy case of Yousuf Kazzab. Maulana Ismail was a party in the case and the case was filled by him against yousuf Kazzab. He is eye witness of the fact that Zaid Hamid was supporter of Yousuf Kazzab.)
3.Fitne Yousuf Kazzab by Arshad Qureshi (Arshad Quraishi was an ex-mureed of Yusuf Kazab and due to this association he knew all the important characters of this Fitna including Zaid Hamid on a personal level. Arshad Quraishi later converted back to Islam and did Tauba and then started the struggle against this false prophet)
4. Audio recording of the yousuf Kazzab which is available on following link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUyshh4G-QU

This recording is valid proof because it was the part of legal proceeding and record of court in Yusuf Kazzab’s Blasphemy case
Dear fellows just here the audio recording two times you will find a resemblance in the voice of Zaid Hamid and the person who is being introduced by yousuf Kazzab as SAHABI (Naauzu Billah Min Zalik). Just focus on the style of pronouncing the words S.A.W.
Besides all this material Zaid Hamid has accepted his link with yousuf Kazzab.
The above books were written almost one decade ago but in these books we find name of Zaid Hamid at many places. So no one can say that name of zaid Hamid was induced to exploit him. At that time no one knows about Zaid Zaman Hamid.
Hence the blasphemy case of Yousuf Kazzab has both legal and Sharayee aspects so the books written by a religious scholars and a senior advocate of supreme court provide enough evidence to prove link between yousuf Kazzab and Zaid Hamid . Beside it all Maulana Isamaeel Shujabadi is the eye witness of the facts that Zaid Hamid was supporter of Yousuf Kazzab and appeared at each hearing with Yousuf Kazzab.
Now in the availability of such a huge material and the statements of zaid Hamid in which he accepts his link with Yousuf Kazzab if some one says that I wrote this thread without any evidence then it is not reasonable and beyond the facts

Hence the link of Yousuf Kazzab and Zaid Hamid is obvious so it was necessary to bring his past before people. If anyone has been remained follower of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani and who starts delivering speeches and lectures in media then it will necessary to get explanation from him regarding his past.

Zaid Hamid had been denying his link with Yousuf Kazzab until after great criticize he disclosed the fact to some of his followers but advised them don’t to say anything about it. But despite his advice a second year student of medical who was present at the moment recorded all the film or story and uploaded the same on You Tube. After this incident the student was bitterly threatened by zaid Hamid and his supporters.This incident and uploading did not leave anyway for Zaid Hamid to accept his link with Yousuf Kazzab.

What were the hidden aims of zaid Hamid this is only known by Allah or Zaid Hamid.

An indecent question was raised regarding the authority of Ulemas to get explanation from Zaid Hamid .

Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) ka irshad ha K Ulema Deen K waris Hain

Today the authority of ulema of the time is challenged by some people on tomorrow some gentleman will ask about the authority of the Ulema , who ran anti qadiani movement . After some time some other person, eager to develop friendly relation with Bhatat Mata, will ask very innocently that why Hazrat Mujadid Alfe Sani challenged “Deen-e-Ilahi”

Dear fellows jis trah ek medical k maslay pe bolnay ka haq ek doctor ko ha ek qanooni masle ki tasrih ek mahir wakeel ya judge ker sakta ha isi tarah sharyee aur deeni masail kee tasrih ka haq sirf ulema ko ha. Jis trah ek mariz ka ek medical ki book parh k doctor se behas kerna bewaqoofi ha, ek eise shakhs ka jo engineer na ho kisi engineer se engineering ke kisi masle main ulajhna nadani ha isi trah hamara deen k mamlat main ray zani kerna kam ilmi ha.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 16 2010 3:48:20 PM
Message:


A great piece of dubious, confused and illiterate work.

The poster does not recognize the difference of his baseless allegations on a man (who openly expresses his fullest faith and has proven it to some of real Ulemas as well) with the anti-qadiyani tehreek.

I believe this whole drama is played to defame Zaid and to take avenge of "do takkay kay maulvi" spoken by him. One fails to understand that FAITH is a matter between Abad and Allah; it has no linkage with a case where some one Naoozbillah makes fictitious claim of Prophet-hood or the one who openly follows him and practice what such person asks to. As far as such a case is concerned, necessary steps may be required; BUT not at the end of street hysterical and illiterate maulvis; rather, by law makers and law enforcers. (From maulvis I don’t mean noble people of Allah).

The case being referred about Qadiyanis has already been discussed at length (on other threads). ………[Mujhay pata thaa yeh bhaag kar isi mislay ke example day ga because I knew his mental level.}……… Our problem is that, we don’t know the facts and base our knowledge on one sided view point. I am and was of clear view that it was an achievement of Bhutto who represented the elected LAW MAKERS. It was by no way an achievement of Mullahs or street wanderers. If some one wants to know what exactly the situation of Ulemas was during the proceedings at NA and at the time when they were called to express their views at NA, he should study the factual proceedings of the NA or some reliable unbiased material. Every muslim sect, at that time, was non-muslim (Naoozbillah) as per definition provided by other sect; so Qadiyanis were almost left intact by the Ulemas and a new debate was started. Ulemas could not even agree to offer their prayer behind a single imam during such proceedings. Unfortunately it is our written and recorded history. There was a huge gap in the definition of “Muslim” finalized by every one. There is a long detail and I know I am dealing with some literally illiterate. It was the wisdom, forbearance, understanding of the legal issues and methodologies and leadership abilities of Z.A. Bhutto which rescued the dwindling vessel of our Ulemas, saved the nation from anarchy and which eventually succeeded in providing a solution. Every one can study it in depth and come to some unbiased conclusion.

I only credit Z. A. Bhutto for this milestone; and this is not a baseless credit. So, like civilized nations the matter was resolved by Law Makers and Law Enforcers. Feeling odd about some Fitna (if it really is there) and agitating against it is not against the norms of an educated set up. One can agitate, register his complaint at law enforcers, go to courts and even ask law makers to ponder on. Posting unproven indecent personalized stuff on websites is too criminal, too indecent and too illiterate. Any generalized linkage between a noble man and a murderer or criminal does not mean that the noble man is Naoozbillah murderer. Same is the case here to which the empty box does not wish to pay attention. (I am recalling the DOODH KA DABBA written by a member of this forum). The sons of very noble men of Allah have done too filthy things in their lives and vise versa. Just look at the son of Hazrat Nooh A.S. and so many other such examples.

If Zaid is openly saying that he believes in Khatam-e-Nabuwwat, it’s biggest sin to keep on trying to prove him follower of Yousaf Kazzab. Allah ko jaan nahi deni tum nay bhaai. Who will save you from the curse of Allah when on judgement day Zaid’s faith will come forward and stand in front of you to inquire why did you provoke people against the truthfulness of his faith? And why did you tried to prove him a follower of Yousaf Kazzab? Tumko tumhaarey family ulema nay sab samjha diyaa yeh aqal nahi dee?

I believe there is no compulsion in faith as has clearly been mentioned in Holy Quran.

“La-Ikkrah-ha-Fiddeen”.

To my understanding even if some one has faith on Yousaf Kazzab (Naoozbillah) in his own private life and does not affect the muslims society, he is not to be questioned and he is free to carry on his own belief. Yet, if some one has been affected he should adopt a proper recourse for the solution.

I am still of the confirmed view that no Aalim (if he is aalim) or Mullah has any authority to call for (at his own) any explanation from the other unless such other gives it a due regard and do so at his sweet will.

As far as poor example where professional fields are compared with being a person who knows Deen is concerned, it is the most incorrect belief and erroneous comparison. Islam did not come to make out Panddits (Naoozbillah) who will take care of it and all others should rest in peace. Islam is the only practical religion that asks every one to learn the Deen, Holy Quran and Uswa-e-Hasna and practice it in real life scenario. I wonder if a selective muslim category went to fight against Kuffaar in all the historical Jehad. The most incorrect thing that we are doing is to make out a specific category called “Maulvis” who has a mushroom growth and are becoming Imaam Masjid every where and are ruining the people. No one knows how educated (even religiously) they are and on what specific agenda they are working and how good is the level of their own faith and their own practice of Deen. I need not to discuss this issue is much detail since every one knows it by heart.

Bhayya, acquisition of knowledge sab par farz hai and we are asked to acquire knowledge from birth to death. Yes, if some one has greater knowledge we should seek knowledge from him. This is the role of an Aalim and nothing else (in this specific case); and this process is intended to make every one Aalim and a practical muslim. Don’t make it something on the line of concepts existing in other religions like Church was derived in Christianity. Please keep Islam intact and for every one.

What is Aalim? Or Ulema? Who makes them or declares them as such and how they are designated? Why they feel they are “Aalims” or “Maulana”? Do any of us know the real answers to these questions? I would like to learn the Ahaadees and their references from Sahi books if some one wishes to call attention to them. I am afraid people will delete or edit their posts if I do so.

Further, one asked us to “leave such matters for Aalims and don’t try to discuss them”. So, my question is ‘ARE YOU CONSIDERING YOURSELF AS AN AALIM SO YOU ARE DISCUSSING IT”; if yes let us know and I will white wash you based upon your own posts where you have done blunders. I told you that a body builder’s son cannot be a born body builder. ….[If one doubts he should open his eyes and read the scientific findings where the tail of a pair of rats was cut and found that their descendants even then born with tails.]…… "Hamara Deen k Mamlat main ray zani kerna kam ilmi ha"...... kiya line likhi hai. It speaks well about the writer. Bhayya tum ko raaey zani kartay phir rahey ho? bataao gay zara????????????????? Empty boz....doodh ka dabba....

Notwithstanding the above, I am a worldly man and believe to have a very limited religious and worldly knowledge. Yet, I believe that if it is a civilized society then hysterical things are not afforded by it. I believe no one in personal capacity is allowed to take law in hands or make compulsory inquiries from others. Yes, if some one is affected he should adopt a civilized course of action.

I believe Ulemas have a nice role in society and they should have fullest right to play their effective role. They should disseminate the “knowledge” and not the “hatred” among others, provide solutions of the problems and point out all social evils along with best solutions based upon ILAM, for the betterment of mankind. Teaching a few Madrissa students and making them Parrots is not going to serve any purpose except what we are seeing now a days.

Regards,


KAMRAN.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 16 2010 4:34:57 PM
Message:

Now a days the topic of Zaid Hamid is a topic on facebook ,youtube and different forums and blogs.
I observed that majority of people supporting zaid Hamid are not his supporter in real these guys are only doing this to express “Ulema Dushmani”., These people are telling the language of Qadiani Lobby and NGO. Baseless objections are made on Blasphemy Law. These people are so called broad minded who support operations against Mosques and Madrasas. These people remain silent on the issue US terrorism in Afghanistan, Iraq and all over the world but jhan Mullah aur Moulvi ka zikar aye ye Rutubul Nissan ho jate hain ulema dushmani main. This is not enmity for Mullah rather it is Islam Dushmani in real.

Yeh log Pakistan ko bhee Turkey ki trah ki secular state banana chate hain.

Some people don’t know about the struggle of Ulema of all sects against Qadianiat . This was the pressure of ulemas that the National Assembly declared Qadianies as Non-Muslim. Hundred of people lost their lives during this movement. Those have knowledge of history know very well that who gave the suggestion of “Tnage Tor Dena” to the Caliph of Jamaate-e-Ahmadia “. All ulema were unanimous at the issue of Ahmedies but some people want to mislead other and misinterpret the history.

As far as Zaid Hamid issue is concerned to us k to apne supporter bhee uska sath chore chuke but maghrib nawaz, deen se be behra aur ulema k dushman medan main reh gay hain.

Deen Main ray zani aur cheez ha aur ulema ki ray ko bayan kerna aur cheez ha but some people do not make a difference in these two different things because to satisfy their ego.

As far as personal attacks are concerned these are increasing day by day. Ab mere liay Sharayee Hujat puree ho chuki ha. Now the person (s) involve in personal attacks will be dealt strictly and in same manner but not at that thread.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 16 2010 9:18:21 PM
Message:

My dear Hujjat Tamam Mashraq Nawaz fellow

A person of your mentality cannot say anything else except blaming others for broad mindedness and maghrab nawaz etc because you run short of words when something comes on facts. You and people of your mentality have lead this nation to a level where nothing but anarchy has to be faced by the people of Pakistan and by the generations to come. You and people of your mentality could not produce anything for the well-being of the nation, religion and any one except for portraying and enhancing differences and hatreds. One of the live example of this is depicted by you on this thread.

So manys like you have been making big claims and have been claiming the so-called WARAASAT of religion; but when things come on to a proof or test you guys run away from the contest. There are one hundred thousand examples of recent history where your likes have done this and badly affected the religious sentiments of those muslims who have followed your mindset. You poors have only one point in your JHOLI regarding Qaadiyanis to provoke peoples against others, continue your bluff (paagal aadmi ke bakwaas), create unrest, propagate baselessly for every second issue and defame others who believe you are "do takkay kay maulvis".

People like you never think that the destruction is caused by the ones who were quite recently your heroes and to whom you brains still support and appreciate. Just check any hysterical incident any where in Pakistan; I bet in 90 percent plus cases it would have been caused by you MASHRAQ NAWAZ pure muslim, anti-NGO bala bala mentality. Can you point out any single area where your mentality has proved constructive or has done something for the generations to come or for the well being of the people of your country or for Abaad-ullah? We have all utmost social evils in this country, social injustices, problem of education, water, food, health, uncontrollable diseases, poverty, unemployment, interest based dominating capitalist economy, protocol environment, outdated-ness, begging to others, pending tax reforms, pending land reforms, inequality of distribution of wealth, corruption so forth and so on. Why these never sound to your brains (Mullah brains) as Fitnas or something that can and is affecting us? You know why? Because all such Mullahs are empty on such issues. What they can do is to allege others as qaadiyanis or Yahoodi lobby, or maghrab nawaz or NGO supported etc. For heavens sake! Do you ever realize that the people who had ever been playing in the hands of these lobbies were ever from among you. Taaliban currently are the core example of this fact to whom still people like JI and others are supporting morally failing to condemn even a single of their destructive inhuman act. I believe it is the time that public should realize what you are and what you have always been. Aik qaadiyaaniat kay maslay ko lay kar tumhara islaam khatam ho jata hai (Naoozbillah) aur Dukh ke baat yeh hai keh aaj tak unkaa bhi kuch nahi kar sakay ho. Out of Pakistan they are still Muslims every where. This tells you how efficient you are. The pigeons who close their eyes on seeing a cat.

Zaid Hamid is never supported for any of his idea. I at the very outset said that he is an over ambitious, over excited and over emotional person and to me he does not appear to have any practical solution even on the matters for which people listen him. I believe he had been and is yet a brain like you and your likes so I had or have no intimacy with him at all.

The issue is only of defaming a man who openly accepts his faith on all ingredients of Emaan and Islam merely for the reason that he called people like you as "do takkay ka". A person who is making big points on religious issues for show off and is time and again claiming "FAKHAR" on being "aulaad" of some so-called Ulemas (Pidar-e-mann sultan bood) should think a hundred times before writing such affected mentality bluffs.

Muslims are not allowed to make such severe allegations without PERSONALLY verifying the facts of the case. Merely basing one's view on what others are saying is no verification. It's blindness and is a characteristic of "parrots".

As far as “dealing strictly” is concerned; I would only say abhi baray ho jaao; khailnay koodnay ke umar guzar jaanay do. Warna people will say ..........(left intentionally)....

Regrets are due to all readers for botherance. Non-sense has to be replied with a bit harsh words.


Regards,


Reply author: rabia-k
Replied on: Mar 16 2010 11:32:07 PM
Message:

once upon a time a bunch of foul mouths even accused allama iqbal of being a qadyani.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 16 2010 11:47:31 PM
Message:

Rabia

These foul mouths have their place in society. After all social evils have to prevail.

They can fabricate whatever they wish because they have nothing else to do and have no way to find out any prominance.


Regards,



Kamran.


Reply author: ausmanpk2001
Replied on: Mar 28 2010 12:15:16 AM
Message:

When Zaid Hamid is openly saying that he believes on khatm-e-nabuat then WHO are you to say that he is a non muslim. Ulema are ignoring whatever he's saying & just keep on repeating their broken record.
When a person says that, how can you judge his heart & say that he's wrong?????????????????????????


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 28 2010 2:17:13 PM
Message:

Usman

"He" has to lay down in Zaid Hamid's graves so he is trying to lay down in his heart and mind as well.

Just to correct, Ulema are not calling Zaid as non-muslim; yes "parrots" and fish market stuff is doing so.

Now, unfortunately we have "parrots" in abundance that are the nearest available fish market on which people depend for "hundreds" of "online" fatawaas.

You have to decide on what "ulema" and "aalim" mean in fact. Big tummy, long beared and a cloth on shoulders does not make some one an aalim. So please differentiate.

Aalims don't disgrace others for no justification. Yeh do takkay kay maulvi he kar saktay hain "aalim" nahi.

Regards,



Kamran.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 29 2010 3:54:37 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by ausmanpk2001

When Zaid Hamid is openly saying that he believes on khatm-e-nabuat then WHO are you to say that he is a non muslim. Ulema are ignoring whatever he's saying & just keep on repeating their broken record.
When a person says that, how can you judge his heart & say that he's wrong?????????????????????????





Usman In sawalon k jawab do

1 Zaid Hamid Yousuf Kazzab ko kazzab qun nhn kehta?

2. Zaid Hamid Yousuf Kazzab se apna relation qun chupata rah? Phir jub medical k ek student ne uski videos youtube pe upload ker deen tab us ne kha k mera Yousuf kazzab se taluq tha. Is munafaqat aur jhoot ka kia matlab ha?

3. Zaid Hamid yousuf Kazzab k case main qun us k sath pesh hota raha?

4. Zaid Hamid abhi bhee yousuf Kazzab ki himayat qun ker raha ha?

5. Zaid Hamid ka yeh bayan record pe ha k Yousuf Kazzab bohat bara wali tha ?


6. Zaid Hamid ne kha k Abdur Rehman Asharfi, Dr.Israr Ahmed aur Mufti Ghulam sarwar Qadri Yousuf Kazzab ko sahi musalman kehte the. Is baat ki tasdiq in teenon ulema ne ker di ha k wo yousuf kazzab ko Kazzab aur jhoota samajhtay thay (I can provide the links on which the explaination of these ulema is available).Kia Zaid Hamid ne qoum se jhoot nhn bola aur wo bhe khatme nabuwat k mamle main?

7.Kia khatme Nabuwat jaise mamle main hum itne bare jhoot ko ignore kerdain?

8. Kia Zaid Hamid ke itne bohat sare jhoot hum ignore ker dain?

9.My brother "Actions speaks louder than words". Zaid Hamid ek taraf to yeh kehta ha k wo khatme nabuwat pe eman rakhta ha dosri taraf wo yousuf kazzab ki musalsal himayat qun ker raha ha?

10. Ek taraf tamam musalman deobandi,brelv,shia aur ahle hadis is baat pe mutafiq hain k yousuf Kazzab ne nabuwat ka jhoota dawa kia tha dosri janib zaid Hamid kehta ha k Yousuf Kazzab bohat bara sufi tha. Kia Akela Zaid Hamid sacha ha baqi sare firqe jhoote hain?
(Yad rahe Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) k ek farma ka mafhoom ha k Musalman kabhi gunah ya burayee pe mutafiq nhn ho sakte)

11. Yeh fiqha aur shariat ka usool ha k ulema aise shaks se jis ka aqeeda mashkook ho explaination le sakte hain. Hum is authority ko challenge kerne wale koun hote hain?

12. Zaid Hamid ko kis ne non muslim kha? Show me the proof

In sawalon ka jawab enayat farmain


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 29 2010 4:08:14 PM
Message:


Come with concrete answers. But keep it in mind kuch arse bad ham sub ne apni apni qabar main chalay jana ha
Na whan internet ho ga na computer whan per hamaray eke ek amal ka hisab ho ga. Yaqinan ager zaid Hamid k bare main hum achi ray nhn rakhtay to is ka hum se sawal nhn hoga . Mager jub ke hum main se koyee musalman zaid hamid ko apna leader samjhay to us se kal baroaze Qayamat Allah ya Allah k nabe ne yeh pooch lia k tum ne us shaks ko apna leader aur imam qn banaya jo ke jhote nabi ka sathi raha to us waqt hamare pas kia jawab hoga.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 29 2010 11:34:07 PM
Message:

Dears

I think Yousaf Kazzab was not even worth to be researched upon and we know Allah is best judge to every one's interior and faith. However, we have historically read the incidents of people who were on right path but at some moment diverted and lost the faith entirely.

So, there is no meaning to find out what a person was, previous to commiting something unacceptable. We have the very first example of Azazeel (Iblees) to understand this simple concept.

At the time when some one was not clearly on incorrect path, people typically remain unable to vouch for the future incidents and events that have to be associated with such person. At that time if some one misjudges such a person, and afterwards, corrects his understanding, he cannot be alleged with such things.

Although I believe to "ask for a clarification from some person" is a sole right and power of muslim Government and not of Maulvis (and even Ulemas), I yet attach high importance to the verdict of Dr. Israr's people after finding facts about Zaid. They have cleared him after a social and civilized discussion.

As far as the concept that "yeh fiqah aur shariat ka asool hai keh ulema....aisay shakhs...say clarification maang saktay hain" tu its strange that basis and logic of such "asool" is never found and discussed. Rather, people don't even discuss what I asked about the word "aalim" or "ulema" etc. Anyway, I know this is a baseless self assumed asool if we are in a muslim country and civilized society.

BTW no one here is following Zaid at all. Rather I believe he is also a misdirected over emotional man who will learn the facts of life with the passage of time or will end up doing similar idiotic things. However, at the same time I believe he does not deny the faith and importance of faith on Khatm-e-Nabbuwat.

At the end, I wish to express my perplexed state of mind made up after seeing a link the poster of which himself says he does not want to comment on it. If he does not want to comment then why he posted it. Is he indirectly preaching "their" message by doing so. Such people by doing these things are infact harming the faith of readers and don't just realize it. Bhaai agar post kia hai tu explain karo aur logical reply bhi do. Yaa phir logon ko misdirect mat karo indirectly.

Ajeeb loge hain, Rushdi ke book ko reply nai kartay, uskay qatal ka fatwa dey detay hain. And this indirectly helps him becoming a figure and winning Robinhood title etc and spreading Rushdi's name even to those who were not aware of himand his work. Yahaan link post kar kay unka message un tak bhi pohanchaa dia jin tak kabhi nahi pohancha aur jawab denay ke baari par kehtay hain "I don't want to comment". If you don't want to comment then are you their agent who is posting their links? Allah ka khauf karo yaa aadat he nahi rahi?

BTW qabar ke baat ke tu forann qabar yaad aa gai. Copy tu ham zaroor kartay hain. Aur karein bhi kiaa?

Sara zore laga diya aik muslim ko kazzab ka follower saabit karnay par, phir sawal yeh hai keh usko kaafir/non-muslim kab kaha? Kiaa saadgi hai. Issi tarah ke saadgi misdirected Pakistani Taaliban main bhi hai.

Kamaal hai bhayya.



Regards,


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 30 2010 11:00:06 AM
Message:

Dears,

In religious discussion I try my best not to present my personal ideas and thoughts. Secondly I avoid my best not to make a religious issue a problem of my ego. Thirdly, point scoring and to win the field of religious discussion has never been my aim. I take much care in religious discussion because as these types of discussions proceed some people (not on this forum) make them the egoistic problem and pass such statement k Rooh Kanp Jati Ha aur ye khadsha paida ho jata ha k aglay banday ka eman aur Islam mutasir na ho jay. (This is a general statement and not about any forum member)


Look at this statement
“I yet attach high importance to the verdict of Dr. Israr's people after finding facts about Zaid. They have cleared him after a social and civilized discussion”.
Look at this statement
Although I believe to "ask for a clarification from some person" is a sole right and power of muslim Government and not of Maulvis"



Dr. Israr ki ray ha “kisi shaksh ko kazzab yani jhoota Madayee-e-Nabuwat Qarar Dena ya Na Dena Islami Hukuma ka Kam Ha Aur Islami Hukumat /Sharayee Nizam k Na Hote Huye Ulema-E-Ikram Ki zimedari Ha".

See the link :

http://www.tanzeem.org/announcements/zaid%20hamid2.pdf

(Jis mulk main hukumat Shamay Risalat k parwaon pe Khatme Nabuwat ki tehreek chalane pe golain barsay. Qadianiat k khilaf likhne pe ulema ko sazay mout sunay jay (Maulana Maududi and Maulana Abdul Sattar Niazi)Air Force ka chaq o choband dasta Jamate ahmadia k khalifa ko guard of honour pesh kare whan pe ulema ko kia moon main unglian dal ke bheta rehna chaye?? Yousuf Kazzab ko Ulema Court main lay ker aye bad main isi court ne us ko sazay mout sunay? Where was the Govt Of Islamic Republic of Pakistan at that time ?? Ulema believ in peacful movement they filed cases against Ahmedies in courts of law during british rule our religious scholars presented before British coruts (Attaullah shah Bukhari and Maulana Anwar Shah Kashmiri)regarding these cases. Ager Ulemah us waqt medan main na ate to aj qadianion ki tadad kayee gunah ziada hoti. Socialism/communism ka muqabla kis ne kia ??? Jab Punjab University main communist students Allah Tala K Alamti JANAZAY nikal rahay thay (Astaghfirullah) to kon medan main aya ? Pervaizion aur Munkireene Hadeen ko kis ne Nath Dalee?? Kuch log kehte hain k ulemah ne bus inhi 3/4 moqon pe kirdar ada kia qun ke in logon k khayal main ulemah ko dosron ki islah kerne main aur kafir qarar dene main bara maza ata ha. Read the history of war of Independence 1857 us waqt 13000 ulemah ko shaheed kia gaya.)

Whether it will be decided by Ulema or LAY man that what is the authority of Ulemah . Yeh usool to aj k nhn balke qaroone uoola (1st Hijry and after) ke Ulema aru Aimay Ummat k tarteeb diay huy hain. Including Aimay Arba Kia nauzubillah min zalik hum Aimay Arba se ziada deen ki samajh boojh rakhtay hain.

Dears, humary halat to yeh ha k hum ko 1 hadees Urdu main bhee puree trah yad nhn hoti (including me). Mager hamary jurat dekhain k hum discuss ker rahay hain ulemah ki authority, very amazing. Ap logon ne shekh- Ul-Hadees ki term suni hogy ek Sheikh Ul Hadees ko Hazaron k hisab se hadeesain Sanad k sath yad hoti hain. Yeh hazaron ka word main ne waise hi use nhn kia. Ap Ulema se pooch sakte hain . Meri ek sheikh ul Hadees se mulaqat huyee chand sal phele, baton baton main unhon ne batay k un ko 1500 se ziada hadeesain sanad k sath yaad hain zair /zabar ki ghalti k baghair. Baz Ulemah aesay bhee hain jin ko 3000/4000 se bhee ziad hadeesain yad hain.Pakistan main is waqt taqreeban 15,000 se ziada Sheikh Ul Hadees Mojood hain.
Ek aur baat jo Ulema Hadees parhte hain unki ek Sanad hotee hai k kis ne kis se Hadees parhi yeh sanad "Shajray Nasb" type ki hoti ha yani kis Alim ne kis se hadis parhi us Alim k ustad (teacher) ne kis se hadees parhi and so on. Main ne ek Aalim ke yeh sanad dekhi unki yeh sanad Hazrat Muhammad (S.A.W) tak jati ha. Afsoas aj hum deen se be bhera ho ker in ulema pe tanqeed ker rahay hain. Ulema k baghair mere bhayon hum ek qadam agay nhn chal sakte.
Ager koyee kehta ha k chall saktain hain to ek sawal ka jawab de. Bhains ka doodh hum sub use kertay hain Punjab k villages main is ka gosht bhee use kia jata hai.
Ap main se koyee hadees dekhay jis may behains ko halal janwar qarar dia gaya ho.


Hamari Halat to yeh ha k hamary apne subject per bhee command nhn ha kia koyee CMA/CA mojood ha jis ko IAS/IFRS,CO, ITO yad ho. Our practicing members keep soft copies of IAS/IFRS in laptop and P.C’s to make opinions. But we insist that we have authority to decide what is the authority of religious scholars. 4 hadesain urdu main yad nhn, gusal, wozoo ,warasat, nikah, talaq k masail pata nhn aur chaplain hain ulema ki position define kerne.

It is requested to all members if any one wants to debate me on this topic please come with concrete and specific points and give answers of above asked 12 questions beside questions asked by me in this post. If anyone belief that Zaid Hamid is vicim of any mental disease then he should not comment on this thread regarding authority of ulemas and relating issues. Otherwise other forum members will consider him as a follower of Zaid Hamid. I will again say come with conrete aurgoments.

Ager meri kisi baat se kisi ki dilazari hoyee ho to main mazrat chata hun.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 30 2010 1:16:39 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by ausmanpk2001

When Zaid Hamid is openly saying that he believes on khatm-e-nabuat then WHO are you to say that he is a non muslim. Ulema are ignoring whatever he's saying & just keep on repeating their broken record.
When a person says that, how can you judge his heart & say that he's wrong?????????????????????????




Dear Usman

Main ne jo link dia tha wo is liay dia tha k qadiani kesi strong dalilain detain hain apko mustanad aur authentic hadeeson k hawalay nazar arahay honge aur mera irada tha aur ha k main is link ko delete kerdonga. Jub min ne likha tha k khud parho aur natija nikalo to iska matlab tha k common sense rakhne wala banda bhee parh k andaza ker sakta ha k wo is arguments ka jawab nhn de sakta aur har kisi k pas arguments hote hain . Second purpose yeh tha ke qadinai bhee kehte hain k wo Aqeeday Khatme Nabuwat aur Islam pe eman rakhte hain. Mujh ko pata tha k is ko ek shaks zaroor negative sense main lega. I am preaching qadiayaniat shabash kia statement ha. Yar kuch khuda ka khof karo.

The purpose of providing the link to show that how Ahmedies give arguments. Anyone like Zaid Hamid can give arguments. Kia hum main se koyee bhee yeh jo article ha “Ahmadies are true Muslims” is ka jawab nhn de sakta. Kia is article main bhee usi qisim k arguments mojood nhn jo zaid Hamid aur us k supporters de rahe hain. I am not declaring Zaid Hamid as Non-Muslim. Baat samjhani thi k qadiani bhee kesee dalail dete hain. Ap kisi qadiani se discussion karain aesee dalilain dega ka ap ko lag pata jay ga. Lekin is ka jawab ulemah de sakte hain aur dia ha. Main is ka jawab qun doon. Is ka jawab wo de jo yeh kehta ha ulemah kee koyee authority nhn aur ulema k bare main negative remarks deta ha. Bhayee jab tum ulema ko value nhn dete to phir apnee knowledge barhao aur us muqam pe phoncho k dushmanane deen ko munh tor jawab de sako Jab deen ka Kakh ilm nhn aur kisi aalim ko nhn mante to qun khama Kahyee main Mufti e Azam ban rahe ho. The purpose of providing link was only that k “HAQ KA MEYAR KASRATE DALAIL PE NHN HA”. Ap ek dalil dainge agla banda 10 arguments dega.

At one place a person says
"Although I believe to "ask for a clarification from some person" is a sole right and power of muslim Government "
Another place he says
Ajeeb loge hain, Rushdi ke book ko reply nai kartay, uskay qatal ka fatwa dey detay hain


Salman Rushdi K qatal ka fatwa sab se phele Hujat-ul-Islam Hazrat Imam Khumeni ne dia tha yeh Iran Ki Govt ka moqif tha aur muhtrahm phele hi Islamic Govt ki authority tasleem ker chuke hain.(lakin statements ki contradiction show kerti ha k muhtram ka poora zor medan marne per aur discussion ka winner banne pe ha ya . Dosri baat kisi baat k bare main pata hi nhn ha na salman Rushdi k bare main na shetani ayat nami kitab k bare main bas daleelain deni hain). Yani kena ka matlab yeh huwa ke Ulema, Iran aur Saudi Arab ki Governments sub ko salman Rushdi K issue pe khamosh rehna chaye tha. Dosre lafzon main har kisi ko kufriat ki ijazat ha aur ager hukumat kuch na kare to Ulema ko bhee khamoshi se bhete rehna chaye.


Jhan tak Salman Rushdi ki bakwas k jawab dene ka taluq ha to ager ap ke buzurgon ko koyee galian de to ap uska “Tehqiqi aur Ilmi Jawab” nhn denge balke uski gardan tor denge.(Asal main log deni mamlat ko bhee apni ana ka masla bana lete hain bare afsoas ki baat ha jo shaks yeh keh raha ha k salman Rushdi ki bakwas ka jawab dena chaye tha usko shaid ye tak nhn pata k salman Rushdi ne apnee kitab Shetani Ayat main Kia bakwasat keen hain kia in bakwasat ka jawab dia jay ??? Afsos Daleel baray Daleel)


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 30 2010 1:36:27 PM
Message:

Dear All
Please don't take this discussion as personal issue. Don't initiate further issues and don't raise irrelevant questions. Be specific and be precise, if possible.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 30 2010 2:23:37 PM
Message:

This is the answer of "Ahmadies are True Mulims"

http://www.irshad.org/info_m/writings/moududpq.php


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 30 2010 8:28:05 PM
Message:

Dears

I doubt yeh shakhs paagal ho gaya hai. Again came with the words about ulema's authority (who in fact are not ulemas) but failed to prove his point by beating about. Rather, even failed to tell what is "ulema" or "aalim" in fact; how they can call theirselves as aalim as weoftenly see.

As far as Zaid Hamid's issue is concerned, tu agar koi paagal ho jaaey and due to unsound mind feel that others are his followers then it makes no difference. Mainay tu pehlay he bataya hai keh in "parrots" ke itni he auqaat hai. Iss say zayada kar bhi kia saktay hain.

Rahi baat qadiyanion ke tu woh tu credit hai Z. A. Bhutto ka, jo kisi ka baap bhi uss say nahi lay saktaa. Warna every man who knows this story knows very well where our so many Ulema were leading the whole endeavor to. I have already told the story. No need to dig out the burried bones again.

When you will post link without comments then its only a misdirecting destructive thing unless it provides both views.

Rahi baat Dr. Israr ke tu I am too clear that even he or his fellows don't have an authority to ask clarification; I just quoted their finding and attached importance to that finding; jis kay baawajood aik paagal aadmi kee "-----" band nai hui. (Deliberately not mentioned). I have been mentioning and am again mentioning that no aalim has such authority. Aur "aalim" bhi woh jo khud ko aalim kehtay hain. Aksariyet khud apnay naam kay saath "maulana" likhti hai. Aur woh aalimjin ke aksariyet Allah kay kalaam aur Islam kay naam par rozi talaash karti hai.

Certainly a few qualitative real Ulema are not being discussed.

Rahi baat Rushdi kee tu betaa jee how you dumb know that I am not aware what he wrote in his book? Simply like you don't regard our Govt as Islamic, I also don't regard the action of a Govt valid that is illegal, illogical, unjust, extra judicial and that indirectly is promoting the name of a Dajjaal like Rushdi (even if it is done by a Govt).

You can capture him, run a case against him, and penalize him provided tumhaari itni auqaat ho. Otherwise qatal ka fatwa khud muslims ka apnaa mazaaq hai. Baat ka jawab hai nahi aur qatal kar do. Kia zehan paya hai.

Aik sawal ka jawab he day do; uss aurat ko (yaa uss jaisay logon ko) muslims nay (fatah Makkah) kay baad kyun qatal nahi kia jo Prophet PBUH kay ooper dust ke tokri gira deti thee (Naoozbillah). Hazoor PBUH kyun uskaa paani bhartay rahay? Hinda ko qatal kyun nahi kia Fatah Makkah hotay hee? I know "parrots" ke samajh main nahi aaey ga?

"Parrots" does not even know that Rushdi's book has been replied effectively by some one muslim but unfortunately kisi Iran aur Saudi hakoomat nay uski projection nahi kee jitni honi chaahiyay thee. Rather due to dumb mind efforts they promoted the book of Rushdi. Just like a link has been posted in previous posts. Kisi "ulema" ko taufeeq nahi pari ho ge keh uss book ko bhi parh lain. This is what such so-called "ulema" means.

Paani main madhaani khud daal kay bethay hain saahib aur doosron ko talqeen kartay hain specific rehnay kee.

Hadeeson kee ta'daad kia word "parrots" kay against ginwaai hai? It's amazing effort. Bhayya ta'daad say kia hota hai. Tehqeeq bhi karo aur samjho bhi. I am sorry to say but just to remind that rattaa tu "perrots" bhi acha lagaatey hain.



Regards,


Reply author: Osama Rules
Replied on: Mar 31 2010 06:38:11 AM
Message:

Salam,

I just want some views on this:

Islam says that it is our duty as muslims to fight against anyone who claims enemity against Islam openly.So this mean that we have to do all we can to make sure that guy/gal gets what he/she deserves!

Ofcourse first all legal means must be tried but what to do if they seems not to be working??

I hope I am not being a thread hijacker here!

Regards.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 31 2010 12:29:41 PM
Message:

Osama

You will be the biggest destroyers if you will try to take law and authorities in your hands and if you will do extra judicial emotional things.

You will do nothing but Naoozbillah promote hatred of people against Islam; the people who can be converted to Islam and towards whom it is our duty to convey a good message of Allah.

This will harm the cause of Islam and we have seen results of such idiotic things. In Rushdi's case, we were affected and victims but due to our negative efforts and destructive approach the whole world is standing with Rushdi now. Although all kuffar is one nation, still we don't know how to present a valid case to safe gaurd the interest of muslims and Islam. Hamaaray Ulema "Jamshed Dasti" jaisay hotay hain. Jamshed was protesting against a women rights law; media asked "have you studied the draft". He replied, "No". Yeh tu haalat hai.

One more thing; if law is not doing some thing and you will take avenge at your own, law and society will never treat you as innocent; rather you yourself become an equal criminal. Just apply same rule in case of murder where law does not punish the murderer. What will you be called if you will take avenge at your own and murder the other. You will be called a "murderer" as well, although you had a valid case and irrespective that revenge was your right.

We have to understand that we are living in the word of 21st century. You cannot get back to zamana-e-Jahliyat when all these things were sorted out by "might is right" formula specially when you are not a "MIGHT" as well.

"You" means and includes every one including me.

Here the matter of Zaid Hamid has been raised and all powers and authorities are being given to so-called Ulema (jo khud zyada-tar Jamshed Dasti hotay hain) that they should call for clarifications and they should decide his faith (that's totally a matter between Abad and Allah), that they are empowered to other necessary things.

Yaar Khuda ke panaah; can any one tell where from this term "Ulema" emerged and where Quran and Hadees and Law have given them such powers and authorities? Are we carrying a destructive approach? Tabaah karna hai sab kuch? Yeh saarey Maulvi kahaan say certified hain keh inkaa eemaan he theek aur salaamat hai? Har Maulvi (of one sect) doosray maulvi (of other sect) ko ghalat aur kaafir samjhta hai aur doosray kay eeman aur faith ko ghalat maantaa hai? Kaisay yeh sab khud theek ho saktay hain? Have people not seen recent incidents of Faisalabad where these "ulema" were going to destroy the peace for their own issues? Yeh Aalim hotay hain, Allah muaaf rakhay aisay aalimon say. That's why I say keh big tummy, long beared and a piece of cloth on shoulders does not make out an aalim. The ones who find their livlihood by selling Allah's Ayaat-e-Kareema have been cursed. I am sorry to say but majority of these so-called Ulema is doing similar things and to promote their economic activity keep on raising such issues.

Yahan shreef aur sachay logon ka woh haal hota hai jo Sarfraz Naeemee saahib ka hua; I just remind you that "sach" (truth) and "purity" is very very rare. Agar yeh galiyon main chalti phirti mil jaaey tu Muslims kee woh haalat kabhi na ho jo ab hai.


Every one has to be answerable for his acts and deeds, yeh kaun hain? Have they to lie in others's graves? Agar kisi ko koi issue hai yah fitna ka darr hai tu he should adapt proper justified course as was done in case of Yousaf Kazzab. Khud decision karna chaahay woh theek bhi ho, kisi Aalim, Maulvi ya meray jaisay kaa kaam nahi.

Yeh aik baat aqal main nahi aa rahi aur ham paani main madhani chala rahay hain to prove Zaid Hamid a kaafir and follower of Yousaf Kazzab because he called some maulvis as "do takkay kay maulvi". Zaid Hamid, who has time and again explained his firm belief on Khatam-e-Nabbuwat. Yaar aik Muslim kay saath kitna zulam hai agar "parrots" usko civil society kay saamnay kaafir bana kar khara kar dein. Woh parrots jo khud aik doosray ke nazar main kaafir hain. Allah ke panaah.

I hope my point is clear now.


Regards,



Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 31 2010 2:05:01 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kamranACA

Dears





Rahi baat Rushdi kee tu betaa jee how you dumb know that I am not aware what he wrote in his book? Simply like you don't regard our Govt as Islamic, I also don't regard the action of a Govt valid that is illegal, illogical, unjust, extra judicial and that indirectly is promoting the name of a Dajjaal like Rushdi (even if it is done by a Govt).






Dears you have seen the wording of this man. Pagal main nahin hun jab kisi shaks k pass koyee daleel na ho to wo dosre k bare main aol fol hi bakta ha. Jis shaks ko baat kerne ki tameez na ho us se ap kia expect ker sakte hain. Ek hat dhram, ana parast ulmah se na waqif shaks musalsal lamby lamby postain ker raha ha . Ek taraf to kehta ha k mera zaid Hamid se koyee tuluq nhn ha dosree taraf discussion ko long kerne k harbe istimal ker raha ha. Jub zaid Hamid se koyee taluq nhn ha to phir jao chill kero apna kam kare tumhe matlab.

Is shaks ki zehni halat ka andaza ap is k in alfaz se laga sakte hain

Rahi baat Rushdi kee tu betaa jee how you dumb know that I am not aware what he wrote in his book? Simply like you don't regard our Govt as Islamic, I also don't regard the action of a Govt valid that is illegal, illogical, unjust, extra judicial and that indirectly is promoting the name of a Dajjaal like Rushdi (even if it is done by a Govt).

Jab koyee ana parast hat dharam shaks koyee daleel nhn de sakta to wo aesy hi batain kia kerta ha.(Is tarah ka shaks apni khayali aur emaginary world main rehta ha aur apni is duniya main 130 Km/hour ke speed se car drive kerta ha)

Fatwa of Hazrat Ayatollah Ruhollah Imam Khomeini (R.A)

"I would like to inform all the intrepid Muslims in the world that the author of the book entitled 'Satanic Verses'. . . as well as those publishers who were aware of its contents, are hereby sentenced to death. I call on all zealous Moslems to execute them quickly, wherever they find them, so that no one will dare to insult Islamic sanctity. Whoever is killed doing this will be regarded as a martyr and will go directly to heaven."


Na tum islamic Govt's ko mante ho

Na Ulema ko mante ho

Na Ijmay Ummat ko mante ho

Na salf Saleheen ko mante ho

Na Aimay arba ko mante ho

Aakhir mante kis ko ho ???

Is shaks ne Imam Khumeni k fatway ka mazaq ura ker Na sirf Ahle Tashi Musalmanon ki toheen ki ha balke ittahade ummat ko bhee nuqsan phonchaya ha. Imam Khumeni sirf Ahle Tashi nhn balke tamam musalmanon k leader hain. Wo azeem imam jis ne america ki aonkhon main ankhe dal ker bat ki . Jo is saddy ka sab se bara inqilab le ker aya jo sari umer ittahade ummat k liay kam kerta raha aj ek shaks apni ray ko us azeem imam ke fatway pe tarjeeh de raha ha. Allah hum sab ki easy logon se hifazat farmay inhi ana parast secular logon ki wajah se aj ummat ikhtilaf ka shikar ha. Yeh log apni chmari bachane aur ulema se apni dushmani chukane ke liay musalmanon k ikhtilafat ko namak mirch laga ker bayan kerte hain. Muslamanon k tamam sects main 90% chzain mushtarik hain(sirf Fazail main ikhtilaf ha). Iran ki Govt her sal puri duniya ke tamam sects k ulema ko bulatee ha aur sab ulema ek imam ke pechay namaz parhte hain yeh ittahade ummat ka ek azeem manzar hota ha.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Mar 31 2010 5:39:08 PM
Message:

At one place Jamshed Dasti Part II writes

Yahan shreef aur sachay logon ka woh haal hota hai jo Sarfraz Naeemee saahib ka hua; I just remind you that "sach" (truth) and "purity" is very very rare. Agar yeh galiyon main chalti phirti mil jaaey tu Muslims kee woh haalat kabhi na ho jo ab hai.


Following is profile of Mufti Sarfraz Naeemi

* Mufti Sarfraz Naeemi was born on February 16, 1948.

* His father’s name was Mufti Muhammad Hussain Naeemi.

* He completed his Masters in Islamiat and Arabic from Punjab University.

* He won a gold medal in Arabic from Lahore Board.

* He was an active participant in Tehreek Nifaz-e-Nizam-e-Mustafa in the 1970s and the Tehreek Namus-e-Risalat in February 2006.

* In February 2006, Naeemi was arrested for taking part in the Tehreek Namus-e-Risalat.

* He was Nazim-e-Aala of Tanzeemul Madaris Ahle Sunat and Jamia Naeemia.

* He had four daughters and one son.

See his profile on following link
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009\06\13\story_13-6-2009_pg13_2


Sarfaraz Naeemi was the head of Tanzeem ul Madaris under Tanzeem Ul Madaris thousands of Madaris are working under Tanzeem ul Madaris ,it is second largest wafaq (board of Madrsas of the country)at other place a person puts false allegation on Ulema it means Mufti Sarfaraz Naeemi being secretary of Tanzeem Ul Madaris failed to bring revolutionary changes in madrsas.

Yar kuch soch samjh ker baat kia kero aqal ko hat maro



At a place Jamshed Dasti Part 2 writes

The ones who find their livelihood by selling Allah's Ayaat-e-Kareema have been cursed. I am sorry to say but majority of these so-called Ulema is doing similar things and to promote their economic activity keep on raising such issues.

Mufti Sarfraz Naeemi was the Mohtimim (Principal) of Jamae Naemeea Kia Nauzubillah wo is baat ki zad main nahin ate. Zahiree baat ha jis shaks ko sirf apnee chamree bachanee ho wo soch smajh k thora hi bolta ha.

At one place Jamshed Dasti Part II writes
Aksariyet khud apnay naam kay saath "maulana" likhti hai. Aur woh aalimjin ke aksariyet Allah kay kalaam aur Islam kay naam par rozi talaash karti hai.

The full name of Sarfaraz Naeemi is Maulana Mufti sarfaraz Naeemi. Why you write ACA with your name does it not show proud which is prohibited in Islam?? Kuch to aqal se kam lia ker


See the profile of Jamshaid Dasti he was neither an Aalim nor have any affiliation from any religious party. He submitted fake degree to Election commission. His degree was sent to Wafaq Ul Madaris for verification but Wafaq declared it fake. Jamshed Dasti was MNA of PPPP.

See his profile
http://www.pakistanileaders.com.pk/profile/Jamshaid_Ahmad_Khan_Dasti

Read the whole news
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/26-Mar-2010/Two-MNAs-MPA-resign-to-avoid-action-by-SC


At one place he writes

Dear

I don't comment on what Mr. Qari said but if you are a HAFIZ-E-QURAN, then you are best of all the people around, provided you also follow what you memorized.

Your parents are among the luckiest people. I wish my son be a HAFIZ-E-QURAN.

Regards,


Kamran.

See the link

http://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8561&whichpage=2

At other place he writes

Hadeeson kee ta'daad kia word "parrots" kay against ginwaai hai? It's amazing effort. Bhayya ta'daad say kia hota hai. Tehqeeq bhi karo aur samjho bhi. I am sorry to say but just to remind that rattaa tu "perrots" bhi acha lagaatey hain

What a big contradiction

Bhayee khuda ka nam lo medan marne ke liay har jaiz aur najaiz harba mat use kero.


Reply author: Boss
Replied on: Mar 31 2010 6:04:50 PM
Message:


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 31 2010 6:09:23 PM
Message:

Dears

Kuch zehni mareez aisay hotay hain jinko kuch bhi samjha lo baat unki samajh main nahi aati. Yeh bhi un main say aik hai.

It's good to listen that now he is following Imam Khumeni Sahib and as such has declared his-self among Ahl-e-Tashi. Chalo kuch tu saaf hua. BTW, what will happen if some one will quote here some of his bak bak about Ahl-e-Tashi? Kiyaa pata aise bak bak kar chuka ho jaisay Zaid Hamid kay baaray main karta phir raha hai? Iss tarah kay banday ka kia pata aanay waalay waqat main kia bhonkay. GreatKhans has already proved that his bakwaas is not supported by his acts.

As far as Khumeni Sahib is concerned, I do have lot of respect and honor for lots of political reforms he brought in. He has done the things which majority of muslim countries are missing severely and this can be well noticed if we conduct a comparative study of Iran with other regional muslim countries. USA related policy is one example.

Yet he was not a Prophet (Naoozbillah) and disagreeing something with his school of thought is by no means an offense or disgrace of his view point. In the matter of Fatwa against Rushdi, I don't agree with this Fatwa and I don't have fear of a cheap maulvi who is trying to provoke our Ahl-e-Tashi brothers to speak against me.

I am sure that we should reply the non sense of kuffaar and anti Islam mentality with logic. Logic ka matlab salees urdu main Daleel hota hai. This poor talks about Daleel aur khud Daleel say aisay bhaagtaa hai jaisay kisi kay haath main pathar dekh kar aik khaas janwar.

Imam Khumeni sahib ke due respect (for being a great leader and thinker) aur unkay followers kay sentiments ka honor azeez hai; iss main koi behas nahi. Har muslim ke izzat ka aik muqaam hai. Khumeni sahib koi maulvi nahi thay; rather he was a great scholar, thinker, social reformer and philospher. Yahaan cheap maulvi unka naam lay kar apni khaal nahi bacha saktay. I believe they (Ahl-e-Tashi) are also pure muslims and at times may be better than us or others. Yahaan tu loge un par bhi fatway issue kar detay hain "online". Main kisi paagal shakhs ke tarah logon par Kuffar kay fatway nahi lagata. Yeh kaam iss forum par sirf aik aadmi he karta hai. Yet I differ with this particular Fatwa and this is not a sin. I have a different view point and different stand on this matter.

Khumeni sahib ke baat say differ karna Gunah hai? Agar hai tu phir saaray non-shia musims gunah-gaar ho gaey? Hai na? Phir yeh paagal aik din Shia bhaaiyon ko sab kay khilaaf provoke karey gaa. Yahi iss ke zehniyet hai and I am telling since inception keh aisay destructive loge yahi kuch kar saktay hain. That's why iss tarah kay logon aur maulviyon say panaah maangi hai mainay.

Kiyaa paagal aadmi hai yeh bhi. Khud apni auqaat explain karta rehta hai.

I believe such things harm Islam and have affected our picture internationally; who can disagree that regardless of Fatwa none of followers of Khumeni Sahib or others could have harmed Rushdi even a bit. Ham nay sirf uski auqaat aur oonchi kar dee hai qatal ka fatwa day kar warna woh tha kia? Ham uska aik baal nahi tore sakay last decades main aur bayaan baaziyaan kari jaa rahay hain. This is what I am trying to explain. Kuch karnay k qaabil hon tu might is right waali baat bhi theek ho shaayed. Ham tu khud bhikaari hain. Haan agar Daleel say baat kee jaati tu shaayed Rushdi ko jawab dia jaa sakta tha but none of muslim leaders and countries have done so. Iss ka nuqsaan kisko hua aur isskaa faidaa kisko hua, sab jaantay hain.

Baaqi rahi Zaid Hamid ke baat tu "again betaa jee" woh tu main tumko nahi chhoroon ga. Yahaan sab nay tumhaari bakwaas ko reject kiaa hai par tum itnay hat-dharam ho kay baaz he nahi aatay. Aik taraf kehtay ho keh kaafir kab kaha doosri taraf zore lagaai jaa rahey ho usko kaafir banaanay par. Aur jo tumhaari ganddi khopri main keel thonktaa hai har uss shakhs ko tum Zaid Hamid ka follower banaay jaa rahay ho yaa jaisay tum nay Greatkhan ko kaha, qaadiyani banaaey jaa rahay ho. Allah ka dar tumhaaray ander hai he nahi. Pata nahi kis say islam parhtay rahay ho tum.

I have already said one or two months back keh koi bhi ghalat baat karo gey tu jawaab milay gaa. Aur tumhara problem yeh hai keh tum 99 percent ghalat baat kartay ho. Aakhir aik "parrot" aur karey ga kia?? Jo ratta hua hai wohi bolay ga na. Damaagh tu apply karna nahi; baat daleel ke karta hai.

I don't advise parrots yet it is better to mend your ways. Kaminee aur zaleel harkaat chhore do aur aik achay bachay ban jaao.

Har kisi ko kaafir kehna chhore do, muslims kay darmyan fasaad karwana chhor do (kyun keh fasaad karnay waalon kay baaray main bara sakht hukam hai Quran main) aur tumhaari last post sirf Shia Bhaaiyon ko provoke karnay aur fasaad karnay kay liye likhi gai hai.

Jahaan tak baat hai tumhaaray sawaalon ke tu jaani Islamic Govt ko bhi maantaa hoon other than something illogical done by them, Ulema (jo keh chand aik hain) ko bhi maantaa hoon, aur asal main Quran aur Hadees ko maantaa hoon jo Allah aur Allah kay Rasool PBUH ka kalaam hain.

Ikhtelaaf ka haq hai mujhay aur jo baat ghalat lagti hai us par teray jaisay.... "ghatya maulvi".... kay darr say chup nahi kia kabhi. Sach baat aur shahaadat chhupana gunah-e-azeem hai.

Parrots par mera koi yaqeen nahi aur Allah kee Ayaat-e-Kareema baich kar chand sikkay kamaanay waalon kay baaray main jo likha gaya hai uss par eeman hai mera.

I believe apnay kiyay ka jawab har shakhs nay khud dena hai aur kisi parrot nay meri qabar main nahi sona. And I believe Allah has not imposed any compulsion on personalized beliefs. Sab say bihat sirf Allah he janta hai.

Rahi baat teri tu bhool ja keh I will give up or surrender in front of your destructive posts. I am here for you.

Regards,


Reply author: shani420
Replied on: Mar 31 2010 6:19:24 PM
Message:

"PARROTS" aur ab "JAMSHED DASTI part 2"
This is getting personel.I wish 'Greatkhans' plays the role of arbitrator or intermediary once again.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Mar 31 2010 6:43:53 PM
Message:

Bakwaas say baaz nahi aanaa iss nay.

Sarfraz Naeemee sahib ko apni category main dheetaai ke had tak shaamil karnay ke koshish kar raha hai. Prove me a single disputed Fatwa issued by him? Yaad hay Lays chips ka muamla? Do you know how Naeemee sb was running his Educational Institute? He was certainly not among the ones who make money using Allah's name.

Jin "Ulema" ko tum un say mila rahay ho woh wohi hain jinko tum "aalim" saabit karnay pay tulay ho. I don't agree that they are Ulema.

Naeemee sb ka internet say profile jhat say dhoond laaey apni baat ka roab jamaanay k liye laikan damaagh ka istemaal nahi kia keh thori tehqeeq he kar loon. Just go to their institute and see how it is managed. Khud ka mazaaq nau banaao I again warn you. Issi liyay kahaa thaa keh ratta tu parrot bhi laga laitay hain laikan baat kee tehqeeq karo aur samjho tu baat banay gee. But I know you cannot do it.

Jahaan tak baat lafz "maulana" ke hai tu aqal say paidal aadmi, iss ka matlab samjkhnay ke koshish karo. Agar koi apnay naam kay saath "Fazil Arbi" ya "MA Islmic studies" ya "Ph.D" ya "Doctor" likhay tu koi issue he nahi. "Maulana" likhna mazaaq hai. "Hamaari Wilaayat karnay waalaa". Yaani khud ko he likha jaaey "hamaari wilaayet karnay wala". Tum jaisay dumb ko samajh nahi aaey ge, I know. That's why I said you are proving yourself none but a "parrot".

Puraani posts laanay kaa kaam shuroo kia bina sochay keh agar mainay aisaa kiaa tu logon ko emails kartay phiro gay "mujhay bachaao" "mujhay bachaao". Jaisay mujhay kee thee jab GreatKhan nay tumhaari baja daali thee.

Oye paagal hasti, Hadees aur Quran ka hifz apni jaga aur usko samjhna aur amal karna apni jaga. Hifz-e-Quran ke fazeelat tu proved hai aur supported hai Ahaadees say.

Jo loge Hadeeson kay researcher thay kabhi unki life ko parho agar fazool bak bak say time mil jaaey tu. Shaayed samajh aa jaaey.

As far as my post that you have quoted is concerned yes I firmly stand on my view that Hifz is a great thing but only when kuch seekh kar uss par amal bhi kia jaaey. Kuch cheezain standardized hoti hain unko sirf tabhi explain kia jaa sakta hai jab koi paagal aqal say paidal sawal poochhay. Tum jin aalimon ke baat kartay ho aur unki support main Hadeeson ke ta'daad ginwaatay ho unki harkaat bhi note karo aur dekho amal kitnaa hai.

AGAR AMAL NAHI TU PHIR RATTA LAGANA waisa he hai jaisaa mainay sorry kay saath bola tha. Nahi samjh aati baat ke tu fazool main damaagh kyun khapaatay ho betaa?

Baatein kaafi ghumaa phiraa leen tum nay; zara apni asal harkat ke taraf bhi aao usko na bhool jana. Tum nay aik aisay aadmi ko kaafir qaraar denay ke koshish ke hai jo har jaga eeman aur aqeeda-e-khatam-e-nabuwwat par apna iqraar khulay lafzon main kartaa hai.

Tumhaari auqaat tu sirf iss baat say clear ho jaati hai. Agar samjhtay ho keh nahi hoti tu tell me main mazeed explain karoon.


Regards,


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Mar 31 2010 10:24:46 PM
Message:

Dears

First of all I would request to all posters to please contain themselves to reason, logic, and debate only. Though everyone is independent of my request.

I was abstaining from this thread as I have mentioned earlier about habit of our masses to tag others. It happened here too, and I think Greatkhan left this thread because of the same thing too.

Infact, I would say that origin of this thread also lies in our collective habit of tagging others, which as I have said earlier neither as ordinary muslim we should do nor any State Law permits. However, if any of us have any problem with anyone else, then there are proper ways to settle it like filing a case in proper Court of Law. Very unfortunately, the responsible people among us who should have tried to bring us together actually caused division among us. Eventual result is this mob mentality in which we are progressing with rapid rate.

Dear Awais, mujhay aapkay iss thread aur reason say pahlay din say ikhtilaaf hay. Agar aapko ya kissi aur ko Zaid Hamid say koi ikhtilaaf hay to ossay setlle karnay kay liay kia yah internet par defamation compaign chalana aur logon ko Islam kay naam par oksaana kia thik tariqa hay? Phir agar ossay koi kam aqal jaakar koi nuqsaan pohncha day to phir os kam aqal ko aap "Aashiq Rassool (SAW)" bana dain gay.

Bhai mayray main sirf time ki kami ki waja say detail main nahi jana chahta, magar aapkay oper poochay gay swalat ka jawab dayna koi mushkil nahi hay. Bhai mukhtasran main sirf itna kahna chahta hon kay jab aik aadmi nay "khatum-un-nabeen" ka khulay aam aitraaf kia hay to phir oskay eeman "faith" kay baray main shak ka izhar karna aik doosray musalman kayliay na dini lihaz say aur na dunyawi lihaz say thik hay.

Mazeed baat yah kay agar "Yousuf Ali" nay waqai nabuwat ka dawa kia tha, aur yah thik tarha say saabit bhi ho jay, tab aysaay jhotay sakhs par mayri, ham sab ki, aur Allah ki lanat ho. Lanat Allah-e-alalkazibeen. Magar mayray bhai jab tak innsaaf kay tamam taqazay pooray nahi hotay, aur koi sakhs "kazib" saabit nahi hota, kia phir ossay "kazib" kahnay say bara zulm koi ho sakta hay jo aik muslaman doosray musalman par kar sakta hay? Mayray bhai cheezon ko straight follow karnay say pahlay independently soch to lia karo kay kia aysa karnay say koi ghlati to nahi ho rahi, kia kia blindly follow karna thik bhi hay? Kia jo reason di gai hay, kia wo samjh main bhi aati hay? Mayray bhai taleem ka maqsaad yah hay kay mamlaat ko samajhnay main aasaani rahti hay, ya phir agar koi mushkil mamlay ko koi doosra samjhay to ossay samajhna aasaan ho. Bhai aap to kafi parhay likhay ho, kam az kam aapka dini aur dunyawi ilm aik kam ilm ya illeterate say to zyada hi hay. Kia aapkay khyal main "Yousuf Ali" kay muaamlay main Dini aur Dunyawi lihaz say insaaf kay taqazaay pooray ho gay thay kia? Kia aapko hamari courts aur evidences, aur gawahaan ka haal nahi pata kia? Kia judge ka eeman iss level ka tha kay wo kisi doosray kay eeman ka faysala karsakay? Kia gawahan sahih-ul-aqeeda thay kia? Kis nay onko check kia tha? Phir agar insaaf kay taqazay pooray nahi hoay thay, to phir bhai kisi ko "kazib" kahnay ka jawab to dayna hoga, Allah kay samnay bhi aur oss shaks kay samnay bhi.

Bhai "qanooni mushagafi" kah kar daman nahi churaya jasakta, aur na hi cold blooded murderer ko naik naam banana chayay.

Kutch yahi maamlaa Zaid Hamid ka bhi hay. Buhat aaraam say aap aur buhat say doosray log, aik aysaay sahks kay faith par onglian otha rahay hain jo khulay aam "khatum-un-nabeen" ka iqrar karaha hay. Kia bhai aap dilon kay haal jantay ho?

Bhai jahan tak main nay parha hay, "yousuf Ali" ko session judge (Grade 18 or 19) ki adalat say saza-e-mot hoi thi. Awal to court of session judge is very initial level of court of law i.e. nor Supreme Court neither Federal Shariat Court. Kia jab tak ossay Supreme Court ya Federal Shariat Court say mujrim qaraar nahi dia jata, ossay "kazib" kahna jayaz hoga kia? Ya phir Pakistan main koi Centralized Religious Authority (like in Iran) mijod hay jiss nay oskay "kazib" ka fatwa dia ho. Apnay jo aalimon ki list likhi thi wo individual level par to kutch bhi kah saktay hain magar kia wo koi "Centralize Authority" ya State level authority hain? Kia Pakistan kay tamam firqon say taluq rakhnay walay muslims ka in aalimon ko mantay hain? Agar tamam fiqaheen aur firqon kay aalimon ka consensus mojod nahi hay to phir bhi "kazib" kahna kia durust hay? Ya phir agar apkay Molana Sahib nay kaha hay to aap kah rahay hain? Matlab yah kay kutch log "kazib" kahain aur kutch na kahain. Agar yah baat hay, to phir to yah aysi hi baat hoi kay har kisi ko doosray ko kafir kahnay ka haq hay kionkay oskay Molana nay agar kaha hay. Kamal hay bhai.

Phir proceedings kay doran ossay (Yousuf Ali) ko aik murderer nay qatal kar dia. Ab aap osay "Aashiq-e-Rasool (SAW)" kahtay ho. Mayray bhai, awal to abhi insaaf kay taqazay pooray hi nahi hoay thay, aur thori dayr farz karlain kay "Yousuf Ali" jhotay daway ki waja say "wajib ul qatal" tha bhi tab bhi kisi ordinary person ko ossay qatal karnay ki ijazat nahi ho sakti. Yah sirf hokoomat aur oskay "executioner" ka kaam hay. Agar kisi ordinary person nay qanoon haath main liya hay aur "Yousuf Ali" ko qatal kia to osay phir emotional murderer kahlana chayay aur osko bhi qanooni saza hona chayyay. Bhai agar har aadmi qanoon apnay haat main layga to phir anarchy hi hosakti hay, jo taqreeban tamam Islamic Societies main common hay. Talibann oski zinda misaal hain.

Bhai "chill" karna buhat aasaan hota hay. Thik baat ko kahnay kay liay kisi ka tarafdaar ya follower honay ki koi zaroorat nahi hoti. Haan yah hamaray maashray ka ulmiya zaroor hay kay ham sirf apnay doston, saathion, party etc. ki tarafdaari main sach ka saath chor daytay hain, aur blindly follow karnay lag jatay hain, apnay zahan say nahi sochtay kay kia thik hay aur kia ghalat. Yah jo reason di jarahi hay, kia wo dil aur dimagh ki sajh main bhi aati hay apni samjh ya aqal ki roshni main. Bhai "chill" karna har jaga thik nahi hota, agar ho to Pak Army ko bhi Waziristan say wapas aakar chill karna chayay.

Bhai main baar baar kahta hon kay mayra aapsay ikhtilaaf buhat hi bunyaadi hay. Awal to hamain kisi doosray ko defame karnay, oskay faith par shak karnay ka koi haq nahi hay, na dini lihaz say aur na dunyawi lihaz say. Har kaam ko karnay kay two ways hain, pahla thik tareeqa, aur doosra ghalat tariqa. Agar kisi ko Zaid Hamid say koi shikayat hay to ossay thik tariqa ikhtiyar karna chayay, nakay internet par defamation compaign chala kar. No one has any civic or religious right to run this kind of defamation compaign. If every one would practice this way to setlle issues, then no one can save us from anarchy. THOSE WHO ARE DOING IT ARE EITHER "NADAN DOOST" OR ACTUAL ENEMIES. Rallies nikalna, stikes karna, naaray maarna, jalao gherao karna, ya bay aqal log kartay hain ya asal dushman karwatay hain. Jo leader ya log aysa karain wo inhi categories say belong kartay hain.

Maghrib zada, secular, NGO zada, qadyani, ya phir kutch aur tag lagana buhat aasaan hay. Yah alfaaz kutch bay aqlon kay liay marfeen ka injection to ho saktay hain, illness ka cure nahi. Apni roti pakki karnay kay liay log kaysay kaysay tags istimaal kartay hain. Aur hamaray logon ka yah haal hay kay blindly follow karnay kay ilawa kutch nahi ata. Hamain sirf nachna aata hay, dugdugi chahay kisi (Molvi/ Zaid Hamid/ Politicians etc.) kay haath main bhi ho. Issi liay hamko sadyon say jaan boojh kar illeterate rakha jaa raha hay. Education tu intellectual independence lati hay, magar hamaray tu educated log bhi issqadar emotional hain kay koi bhi deen ka naam laykar kutch bhi karwa sakta hay. Agar yahi haal raha tu education bhi iss qom ka kutch nahi bigar sakti.

Alas!

Neither I am a follower of "Yousuf Ali", nor Zaid Hamid.

Regards


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 12:14:26 AM
Message:

Torontoboy

Let me call you with this name due to handicapped info although I believe one should be called with his original name.

Irrespective of the fact that we differ on many issues, I from the first day of reading your response on this thread, felt that sense has not yet died. I congratulate you and those who understand a thing which most of us emotionally forget to give even a try. Here is the example to speak truth knowing that people can directly raid on your faith and make you maghrab zada or NGO zada or Aalimon ka dusham or eventually Allah kay deen ka dushman (Naoozbillah).

We all know that no one has this right but our parrots have historically done this all without following any of the all logics that you have mentioned.

This particular man has ever been raising issues to create hatred on the basis of "languages", "cities" (as he did about Karachi and Karachiites, "ethnic groups", "muhajir, sindhi, punjabi issues, "sects" and "faith" etc. All the forum is evidence of his lame yelling on such issues. He does not even take care while posting wrong and doubtful Ahaadees which he subsequently deleted in a recent example.

A human can commit mistake and it is good if he realizes it. Although he has unprovokedly and unwarrantedly defamed Zaid Hamid, he knows by heart that his point of view is incorrect and fabricated since he does not accept what he is doing and a number of times has escaped from his own conclusion about Zaid.

Iss tarah kay loge chaahtay hain inka naam bhi naa aaey, aag bhi lag jaaey, moashara barbaad ho, aur tabaahi bhi ho jaaey. This is the way such people do their work. I am sorry to say that some where I read a story about Iblees who also follows same methodolgy.I am not calling him Iblees; just comparing the methodology.

A recent example is where he used the name of Imam Khumeni sahib to provoke Shia visitors of this forum against me because I don't agree with Khumeni sahib's general fatwa-e-qatal about Gustaakh Rushdi that also remained un-implemented for logical reasons.

In short, he is always in search of some opportunity to create some social or religious issue to promote Mob activity and hate generating debates.

Allah ke rehmat hai keh kuch loge aisay hotay hain jo hamesha iss tarah kay logon ko face kartay hain aur samjhaatay hain. You and Greatkhans are such examples here. Such people dare to do so because their faith needs not to be certified by Parrots and the ones like this hate generating machine.

People instead of seeing what our last and greatest Prophet PBUH has done and guided us to do and what Holy Quran asks us to do, har waqat "Ulema" "Ulema" kartay rehtay hain. Yaar jahaan ilam kam hai wohaan khud talaash karo, nahi pata chalta tu kisi ilam waalay (aalim) say pooch lo; laikan aalim ko Khuda tu naa banaao (Naoozbillah).

Aik Allah aur aik Rasool PBUH ke Ummat aik nahi hai. Kyun? Kabhi socha? Pehlay din say kaun thaa jis nay iss qaum ko taqseem kiaa aur 1400 saal karta raha. Koi nahi sochay ga.

Zaid jo bhi hai, laikan agar woh apnaa eeman khud bata chuka hai aur Khatam-e-Nabuwwat kaa Iqraar bhi kar chuka hai (as has also been evidenced by Dr. Israr sb's fellows as well) tu usko kaafir qarar dena yaa aisa karnay ke koshish karnaa yah defame karna ghalat aur na jaaiz harkat hai.

Allah ka khauf bari cheez hai.

Allah kay Nabi PBUH nay tu aik Kaafir ko jang kay dauraan qatal karnay kaa bhi notice liyaa tha because uss kaafir nay qatal honay say pehlay eeman ka iqraar kia tha.

Ham kiss azeem Nabi PBUH kay follower hain aur maray jaa rahay hain "ulema" "ulema" kartay huey ghalat baat par bhi.

I wonder agar aik religious aalim aur aik science kay aalim main koi faraq hai unless dono main say koi aik Taqwa main zyada achay muqaam par ho. Ab Taqwa main kaun bihtar hai yeh tu Allah he jaantaa hai. Pata nahi yeh "ulema" ke term eejaad kis nay kee thee. Aur Khud ko khud he "maulana" likhna aur kehna kaisay jaaiz ho gaya tha.

Like you, I also like to mention that I have all the due honor and regard for real noble men of Allah and the people of knowledge from whom we get light and a ray of hope. However, I believe every one tagged as "Maulana" may not necessarily be an aalim. Rather majority is not in that category I guess.

I also believe that calling and tagging and defaming a muslim as kaafir or making efforts for doing so is equally punishable and hatable.

May God help the starter of this thread to come out of a frustrated complex mental situation that makes him to post unnecessary hatred stuff against sects, religions, faiths, languages and ethnic groups so forth and so on. May God he realize his ill-doing to defame a muslim on the name of Yousaf Kazzab.

I expect nothing better from him though; since we know he has learnt nothing from all his previous experiences jahaan aik aik kar kay sab usko samjha chukay hain...aur buhat achay tareeqay say samjha chukay hain.

Anyway, "thanks" was due for speaking truth and standing on it firmly. It's not an issue of mine. Rather it is the issue of faith and unity of Muslims. An issue of stopping incorrect defamation and bluffing against a person who has openly expressed his faith.

Regards,


Reply author: shani420
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 12:31:21 AM
Message:

Salman Rushie's views
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profile/salman-rushdie-his-life-his-work-and-his-religion-419902.html


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 01:51:55 AM
Message:

Dear Shani

Rushdie, Tasleema Nasreen, German or Dutch newspaper publishers or Ahmadis kay baray main kisi ko koi shak nahi hay aur na hi inkay baray main koi do (two) rai hain. Ikhtilaaf sirf inkay treatment par hay, yani Mulims (Gov't and individuals) ka reaction kiss tarha ka hona chayay. Maslan apnay logon ki properties ko jala kar ham "dushman" ka konsa nuqsaan kartay hain? Aur kia aysi stikes, rallies, procesions ki call daynay walay bhi hamaray kia ham aam logon kay indirect dushman nahi hain kia? Kia death threats nay inn sab ka "rate" nahi barha dia, jo inka asal maqsaad tha. Kia yah sab karkay ham nay wohi nahi kia jo yah sab ham say karwa kar apni "cheap value and rate" main izafa karwana chahtay thay.

Bhai agar time milay to China or Iran ki diplomacy ko thanday dil say samjhnay ki koshish karna. China kay pass sab kutch hay aur pichlay 40 saal say hay magar wo kisi ko threat nahi karta. Aur Iran abhi sirf developmental phase main hi hay, aur bharkain Sultan Rahi ki hain. Nateeja ham sab kay saamnay hay. Shayad kisi jaga KamranACA nay Saddam ki misaal kafi achi di thi.

China, Iran, ya Saddam ki example samjhnay walon kay liay hain, kay iss tarhay kay problems ka treatment kiss tarha hona chayay. Warna phir apni kulhari aur apni hi taang hoti hay, ya phir khaya pia kutch nahi glass tora bara-anay (12 Anas).

Abhi Pakistan ki age sirf 63 years hay, awal din say bharkain marnay kay ilawa ham nay kutch nahi kia. Nateeja kia nikla, dunya ki har secret service hamaray ilaqon main apnay apnay game khail rahi hay. Kia ham kutch aaraam say nahi baith saktay thay kia?

Bahar haal main zara doosri taraf nikal gya tha. Now come to the point.

Shani and Awais bhai, internet age main search engine ko istamal karna koi bari baat nahi hay. Kisi ko bhi agar interest ho to wo Qadyanion ya Rushdie ya kisi aur kay baray main search karsakta hay. Magar iss tarha kisi ka bhi link lagana (including Zaid Hamid) oska "bhao barhana" hota hay. Specially agar aap osko bura aadmi samjhtay hain to iss say bachna chayay nakay market karna.

Regards


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 05:40:34 AM
Message:

Kamran

At-least three of us i.e. me, you, and Greatkhan have principle agreement on this issue of defaming Zahid Hamid and pointing fingers to someone's faith.

Over a period of time I have observed that in our country people have used religion to settle their score, to get objectives, and to save interests etc. To do this, they provoke general masses and ordinary people, who unintentionally, without thinking independently and critically, without knowing the ill intentions/ motives behind, start performing like pupets. Then pupets burn properties of other pupets and even kill each other. Many times it happens with the misuse of name of religion. Such pupet masses and some over zealous dumbs have caused great losses specially in current decade.

Zia era immensely misused religion to gain objectives. Successive gov'ts did not do much to control such so-called mazhab based political leaders. So, we have the result today. Now every common man has got the right to point fingers on someone else's Islam or religion. It has become a common business to exploit others on the name of religion. Worst result we are witnessing in our Northern province where such truck cleaners cum purified holy warriors are saying the rest of muslim nation 16 Karor "munafiq".

These are all shapes of exteremism, start from being suspecious about another muslim's Islam, and then goes to even kill him on the name of Islam. Asal tragedy to yah hay kay, qatil maqtool ko zibah karnay say pahlay kalma parhnay ka kahta hay aur khud bhi kalma parh kar aur Allah-o-Akbar kah kar churi (knife) chalata hay, ya suicidal bomb ka button dabata hay.

Un-educated logon ko tu rahnay dain, yahan tu parhay likhay log bhi itnay jazbaati hain kay bina sochay samjhay taqleed main lag jatay hain.

Regards


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 06:33:13 AM
Message:

Good points raised but I know will not affect a particular addressee.

Shani, as far as Jamshed Dasti II is concerned, this is the term I used to explain the approach of parrots. They search nothing, never apply mind, never find facts and come on to roads for jalao gheraao. Jamshed Dasti did similar thing when he opposed Women Rights bill in NA. Media asked him that he is opposing this bill, has he in fact read it thoroughly. He replied NO. Yahi haalat kuch parrots ke hai.

Ab iss bachay ka problem yeh hai keh he always clicks on others' terms and logics and straight a way start copying it. He is a copy cat you know. Har thread par kuch na kuch kisi na kisi ko copy karta hai and this has so many times been pointed out by me. So usage of term Jamshed Dasti is not his own thought; rather it is a copy cat harkat aur iss tarah ke harkaat say iss kee "parrot-ness" aur magnify ho jaati hai. You will soon see him finding some words similar to PARROTS or even COPYCAT. That's what he is upto.

Kisi ka naam lay lo bhaga bhaga search engine say information collect karta hai aur forum pay aa keh bara teer maarnay ke koshish karta hai. He just forgets keh naqal kay liyey bhi aqal darkaar hai. Aur woh uss main hoti tu 32 saal ka honay kay ba-wajood apna CMA he na qualify kar leta. I hope people must be remembering his personal particulars posted by GreatKhans.

Torontoboy has made a valid point that qadiyanis, Rushdi and Tasleema etc every one is know by people at large. Aakhir har baar inka naam lay lay kar kia saabit karna hai ham nay?? Jahaan ham tabah hain wohaan kabhi kisi Parrot ko fikar kartay dekha hai kisi nay?? Never! Ho he nahi sakta!! Bhaai jo garhay murday hain unkay baaray main buhat kuch kaha ja chuka hai, ab kaun see nai research karni hai. I agree with Toronotboy that yeh harkaat sirf unka rate bharhaa rahi hain. Aisay garhay murday jin ko dunya bhoolnay lagti hai, jin kaa naam mitnay lagtaa hai, woheen koi Parrot uth-ta hai aur koi aisee harkat kartaa hai keh woh garhay murday phir zinda honay lagtay hain. Aur iss baat ko parrots apnay eemaan ke taazgee samajhtay hain.

Believe you me Rushdi ko Robinhood banaanay aur well known karnay main sirf maulvi bhaaiyon ka haath hai. Warna woh tha he kia? Aik mamooli disputed bhatka hua writer? Aaj qadyaani 100plus countries main paaon jama kay bethay hain, kyun? Missions, websites aur dish channels khol chukay hain. Billions kay funds hain unkay paas; kyun? Aisaa kyun hua?? Solely yaaron kee apni harkaton ke wajah say. Aur ham jawan samjhtay hain keh ham nay pata nahi kaun see "nath" daal dee hai. (Yeh Nath issi parrot ka lafaz hai). Mujhay tu koi Nath nazar nahi aati. Out of Pakistan they are still muslims; even in Muslim countries. Aur Pakistan main bhi woh utnay he nazar aatey hain. Qauid-e-Azam kay wazeer-e-kharja say lay kar Ayub Khan kay wazeer-e-Khazana tak aur Parvez Musharraf kay Tariq Azeez say lay kar Zardari sahib kay Sohail Ahmed tak (generally reported names). Har jaga par. Taareekh kay har warqay par. Ab zyada samjhaao gey aur mazeed aaeena dekhaao gey tu kahen gay tum unki taraf-daari kar rahay ho ya jaisay GreatKhans ko keh bhi diyaa tha keh tum unkay follower ho. Khuda ke panaah. Yeh haal hai hamaari efforts ka aur soch ka aur Ulema kehlaanay ka bara shauq hai. Yousaf Kazzab ke he misaal lay lo. Mar khap gaya, loge bhool gaey, aadhay loge uska naam bhi nahi jaantay; par nahi!!! Hamaara maulvi (aur iss jaisay kuch aur) phir say uski bones nikaal laaey hain. Ussay zinda-o-javed Karnay ke koshish kar rahay hain. Kar lo baat. Ussko jab tak koi hero (Naoozbillah) na bana lain gey, aur jab tak aadhi dunya ko uskaa taa'ruf na kara dein gey tab tak araam thora he aaey gaa. Aur jab "mukammal araam" aa jaaey ga tab kahein gey yeh Ulema ka kaarnama hai.

Yaar kuch tu reham karo iss qaum par; kahin tu aqal aur patience ko use karo. Kuch tu proper planning say karo. Bheek saari dunya say maangtay ho aur baatein fitno ke kartay ho. Ham as a qaum sab say bara fitna hain. Iss baat ka kyun ehsaas nahi. New years par sharab aisay chalti hai jaisay europe ho, zanakaar sarkon par khulay aam ghoomtee hain, aksariyat bey-eeman aur dishonest hai, rishwat / corruption aam hai aur uskay bina aik kaam bhi nahi ho sakta, taleem aur ilaaj ab ghareeb aadmi ke bass ke baat he nahi rahay (aik 6000Rs salary wala aadmi apnay bachay ka Hepatitus B ka 16000Rs ka lab test kaisay karwa sakta hai; I personally saw such cases at Aga Khan Hospital), fuel/gas/power hamaaray paas hai he nahi iss liyey bheek kee aadat chah kar bhi nahi khatam kar saktay, paani hamara khatam ho gaya aur sab including so-called "Ulema" soey rahay, har dushman hamaaray mulak kay ander ghussa hua hai aur ham koi plan nahi rakhtay to deal with them, hamaari koi policy hamaari apni nahi, hamara koi faisla hamara apna nahi, kirdaar hamara aisa hai keh Iblees bhi sharma jaaey yaha loge qabron say dead bodies nikaal kar unkay saath bhi rape kar detay hain, zinda women ko qabron main ham dafan kar detay hain aur koi poochhta tak nahi aur baat khatam ho jati hai, kaari kar kay maar do kisi bhi aurat ko aur sab khush baash rehta hai, bhaai bhaai ka dushman hai baloch punjabi kay khoon ka dushman hai aur punjabi baloch ka, pathan Muhajir ka aur muhajir pathan ka (examples only) so on and so forth. Al-gharz ham sab main fitnay maujood hain aur ham sab uss nizaam ka hissa hain jo nizaam he fitna hai.

Jab tak har shakhs apnay zaati fitnay ko theek nahi kartaa kuch honay wala nahi. Nizaam kay fitnay bhi tabhi theek hongay.

Jin baaton ko parrots fitna banaaey bethay hain woh zyada tar yaa tu Zaid jaisay logon ko sabaq sikhaanay kay liye taraashay gaey hein khud say (coz he called them do takkay ka) yaa phir khud numaai kay liye garhay murday ukhaarnay kee koshish hai.

Jo asal fitnay hain koi bataaey gaa inn so-called uelma kaa un kay baaray main kia khayaal hai? Aur unkaa kia hall paish farmaatay hain "ulema" hazraat??? Aur aaj tak kia progress kee hai in "ulema" saahibaan nay aisay fitno kay baaray main. Aur agar kee hai tu uska nateeja kia hai??? Kiyaa aisay fitno ko bhi Robinhood tu nahi bana diyaa apni kaawishon say; yaah unkay dish channel aur websites tu nahi khulwa deen???

Bhaai reham khaao logon kay haal par aur bass kar do tajruba kaariyaan logon kay faiths aur religious sentiments kay saath. Kuch theek nahi kar saktay tu kuch barbaad bhi na karo.

Issi tammana kay saath keh kaash yeh loge bhi damaagh use karnaa shuroo karein, I close down this post.


Regards,


Reply author: shani420
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 08:42:27 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Toronto_Boy

Dear Shani

Rushdie, Tasleema Nasreen, German or Dutch newspaper publishers or Ahmadis kay baray main kisi ko koi shak nahi hay aur na hi inkay baray main koi do (two) rai hain. Ikhtilaaf sirf inkay treatment par hay, yani Mulims (Gov't and individuals) ka reaction kiss tarha ka hona chayay. Maslan apnay logon ki properties ko jala kar ham "dushman" ka konsa nuqsaan kartay hain? Aur kia aysi stikes, rallies, procesions ki call daynay walay bhi hamaray kia ham aam logon kay indirect dushman nahi hain kia? Kia death threats nay inn sab ka "rate" nahi barha dia, jo inka asal maqsaad tha. Kia yah sab karkay ham nay wohi nahi kia jo yah sab ham say karwa kar apni "cheap value and rate" main izafa karwana chahtay thay.

Bhai agar time milay to China or Iran ki diplomacy ko thanday dil say samjhnay ki koshish karna. China kay pass sab kutch hay aur pichlay 40 saal say hay magar wo kisi ko threat nahi karta. Aur Iran abhi sirf developmental phase main hi hay, aur bharkain Sultan Rahi ki hain. Nateeja ham sab kay saamnay hay. Shayad kisi jaga KamranACA nay Saddam ki misaal kafi achi di thi.

China, Iran, ya Saddam ki example samjhnay walon kay liay hain, kay iss tarhay kay problems ka treatment kiss tarha hona chayay. Warna phir apni kulhari aur apni hi taang hoti hay, ya phir khaya pia kutch nahi glass tora bara-anay (12 Anas).

Abhi Pakistan ki age sirf 63 years hay, awal din say bharkain marnay kay ilawa ham nay kutch nahi kia. Nateeja kia nikla, dunya ki har secret service hamaray ilaqon main apnay apnay game khail rahi hay. Kia ham kutch aaraam say nahi baith saktay thay kia?

Bahar haal main zara doosri taraf nikal gya tha. Now come to the point.

Shani and Awais bhai, internet age main search engine ko istamal karna koi bari baat nahi hay. Kisi ko bhi agar interest ho to wo Qadyanion ya Rushdie ya kisi aur kay baray main search karsakta hay. Magar iss tarha kisi ka bhi link lagana (including Zaid Hamid) oska "bhao barhana" hota hay. Specially agar aap osko bura aadmi samjhtay hain to iss say bachna chayay nakay market karna.

Regards


Dear Toronto boy,
I never posted this link of Rushdie to create an issue.Rushdie ki bat chal rahi thi is may nay yeh likh dia.
Jahan tak Rushdie k rate berhne ka taluk hai to main nay aik TV program main khud suna tha AKBAR BUGTI ko yeh kehte k RUSHDIE was one of his favourite novelist.Allah jis ko jitna fame/notoriety dena chaye day day.
In neither of my post I have said Zaid as a Kafir.Mujhe to Zaid or even Yousuf k bare main pata hi nahi tha.Zaid ko TV peh dekha tha per interest nahi lia.If he claims to be a muslim then it is acceptable for me.Mery bala say to agar Rushdie bhi khud ko Muslim kehta hai to main kon hota ho object kerne wala ya use qatal kerne wala.But I have read Satanic Verses.It was heinous and odious.Beherhal woh aik Novel tha aur is ka literary jawab kia hoga meri samgh main nahin ata.I am against violence , chaye woh Benazir k marne per ho ya kisi sectarian larai per whatever.
I have spent a good part of my life in hostels and I know 3 qadianis personally.One of them currently in CA's C module.I know how they pray and how they portray their religion.One of them claimed to be a HAJJI.I believe them to be NON MUSLIMS.But woh khud yeh nahi kehte.Woh to hamain farigh ker dayte hain.
As far as China is,to agar ham as nation 63 years k hain to China bhi(as current Independent state) 61 years ka hai.Hum yahan ghalti per dat jatay hain aur phir us ko sahi sabit kerne per lag jate hain.Woh apni ghaltian suthartay hain.China to bara mulk hai , even Venezuela (Hugo Chavez) America ko ankh dikhata hai.Hum to yahan CA/ACCA peh lartay hain!


Reply author: shani420
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 09:08:32 AM
Message:

Kamran bhai,
Maine to "Jamshed Dasti part 2" Awais ki post main dekha to likh dia.
I didn't know k Awais is 32 years and about his CMA.
Aap nay apni post main jo Pakistanis ki burayan ginwai hai.I agree.Har job k lye sifarish,rishwat,zina etc.It is very common.
Qadianiat kafi phel rahi hai.Outside Pakistan ,specially in Africa ,inki ki kafi tadad ho chuki hai.India main bhi woh Case jeet ker Muslims main shamil ho gai.Bangladesh kab say unko Non muslim declare kernay ka keh raha hai magar kia nahin.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 4:05:04 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by shani420

Kamran bhai,
Maine to "Jamshed Dasti part 2" Awais ki post main dekha to likh dia.
I didn't know k Awais is 32 years and about his CMA.
Aap nay apni post main jo Pakistanis ki burayan ginwai hai.I agree.Har job k lye sifarish,rishwat,zina etc.It is very common.
Qadianiat kafi phel rahi hai.Outside Pakistan ,specially in Africa ,inki ki kafi tadad ho chuki hai.India main bhi woh Case jeet ker Muslims main shamil ho gai.Bangladesh kab say unko Non muslim declare kernay ka keh raha hai magar kia nahin.



Shani tum ne KUTNI ka lafz suna hoga yeh kutnian hamesha dosron kee toh main rehteeen Falana kia ker raha, falanay k ghar kia pakka ha. Falanee ki kitnee umer ha falana kitni jamatain parha ha. In ko bus dosron ki fikar rehti ha.

I don't have any interest in your age, academic/professional qualification ager kisi ne batadia to theek werna hamin kia zaroorat ha kisi ki Jasoosi kerne ki.
Ek shaks ne meree age 32 likhee ha ager zara aqal ho to forum per hee main ne ek baree Visible jaga pe apnee date of birth likhi thee great khna k member banne se bohat phele wo whan se dekhleta . Mager mujh ko pata ha k main abtak 1 dozen tak is ki contradiction logon k samne lachuka hun is ki kefiat kisi aese shaks ki huyee ha jo bohat barkain aur pharain marta ho mager uska sara bhanda beech chowk main phoot jay. Zahiree baat ha aesee soorat main is shaks ka demagh kam kerna chore deta ha.

Abhi tak yeh shaks ek contradiction ka bhee jawab nhn de saka.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 4:39:08 PM
Message:

Jamshaid Dasti Part II says about fatway Qatal of Imam Khumenie
Yet I differ with this particular Fatwa and this is not a sin. I have a different view point and different stand on this matter.


Dears Imam Khumenie se to wo ikhtilaf kare jo Ahle Tashi hone ki surat main Ayatullah ho ya Sunni hone ke sorat main Mufti ya sheikh ul Hadees ho. Tum kia tumhari auqat kia ek hadees ati nhn ha aur Hazrat farama rahay hain “main imam khumenie se ikhtilaf kerta hun salman rushdie k fatway pe” Kuja pidi kuja piddi ka shorba yeh monh aur masoor ki daal. Yeh to wohi baat hoyee k koyee ICOM ka bacha IAS’s /IFRS pe eitraz kare aur kahe main falane mamle pe IFAC se ikhtilaf kerta hun.

Jamshed Dasati Part II Says

Khumeni sahib koi maulvi nahi thay; rather he was a great scholar, thinker, social reformer and philospher. Yahaan cheap maulvi unka naam lay kar apni khaal nahi bacha saktay

Do you know about the term Ayattullah ?
Yar qun apna mazaq ban wa rahe ho ager kisi bat ka pata na huwa kare to search engine hi use kerlia kero. Lakin search engine use kerne k liay bhee thori aqal chaye hoti ha jo tumaharay demagh main nhn balke godon sorry takhnon main ha. Imam Khumenie got his education from Madrasa Hawza at Mashhad.
The degree/rank of Ayyatullah is granted in Fiqahe Jafria after a tough examination/studies to the persons who have qualified Darse Kharij (examination of Aalim in Fiqahe Jafria like Darse Nizamee of Sunniees).There are only few Ayyatullahs in Ahle Tashi of Pakistan according to information provided me by my Ahle Tashi friends and only some dozens in Indian Muslims.
Yeh shaks ek jaga kehta ha
It's good to listen that now he is following Imam Khumeni Sahib and as such has declared his-self among Ahl-e-Tashi. Chalo kuch tu saaf hua. BTW, what will happen if some one will quote here some of his bak bak about Ahl-e-Tashi?
Jab k dosri jaga likhta ha

“In the matter of Fatwa against Rushdi, I don't agree with this Fatwa and I don't have fear of a cheap maulvi who is trying to provoke our Ahl-e-Tashi brothers to speak against me.”

See the contradiction bhaion main ne to kabhi kisi sect k bare main baat nhn kee ager kee ha to suboot do jo shaks ilzam lagat ha burden of proof us pe hota ha. Ye shaks asal main Khud shia bhion ko mere khilaf bharka raha ha aur blame mujh ko de raha ha k main Ahle Tashi ko is k khilaf bharka raha hun.


At one place this mental patient writes

Naeemee sb ka internet say profile jhat say dhoond laaey apni baat ka roab jamaanay k liye laikan damaagh ka istemaal nahi kia keh thori tehqeeq he kar loon. Just go to their institute and see how it is managed

Have you visited any madras’s tum ko to yeh tak nhn pata k Sheikh-ul-Hadison ka nisab kia hota ha. Tum ek lakh jaga proof ker chuke ho k tum ko madrson k nizam, syllabus,exams, courses k bare main KUKH bhee nhn pata.

Mufti Sarfraz Naeemi was an Aalim and Secretary of Tanzeem Ul Madaris. Bataya bhee ha k Tanzeem Ul Madaris Kia ha prir bhee bat aqal main nhn ayee how we exclude a Aalim from the ulemahs who was the secretary of an organization under which thousands of Madaris are working.
It is amazing for all who have knowledge of madrsa education that Jamshed Dasti part II says
Hadeeson kee ta'daad kia word "parrots" kay against ginwaai hai? It's amazing effort. Bhayya ta'daad say kia hota hai. Tehqeeq bhi karo aur samjho bhi. I am sorry to say but just to remind that rattaa tu "perrots" bhi acha lagaatey hain

At another place he writes

AGAR AMAL NAHI TU PHIR RATTA LAGANA waisa he hai jaisaa mainay sorry kay saath bola tha. Nahi samjh aati baat ke tu fazool main damaagh kyun khapaatay ho betaa?


Allah ki panah “Takhasus Fill Hadees” k syllabus ka pata nhn balke yeh term hi pheli dafa suni ha aur batain dekho. Yani “Takhasus Fill Hadees” main is jahill shaks ki aqal k mutabiq sirf hadeesain ratwayee jatin hain. Allah k bande Sahe Satta ke sari kitabain to Darse Nizamee k students shroo k salon main hi parh lete hain. Bhaye Mustashriqeen bhee islam pe tanqeed likhne se phele poori tehqiq kertain hain ager tanqeed ka shoq ha to thori see research k bad kero

Aur ek baat tumhare bête ko Hifz kerwane k liay kia farishtay asman se nazil honge . Balke shaid tum ko pata na ho jo log hifz kerwate hain wo to 99% sirf Qari aur Hafiz hote hain unhon ne to Darse Nizami bhee nhn kia hota na wo fazil arabi hote hain. I know k kuch Moderate and progressive /secular log bhee apne bachon ko hifz kerwatain take un k NATWAN kandhon pe bhet k Janat main ja sakain.

Jo batain tum ker rahe ho unse zahir hota ha k tum ne ajtak kisi tafseer kia kisi deni kitab ka bhee mutalla nhn kia. Jaisa k Ayatullah ki term pe main ne tumharee jahalat sabit kerdi. Jab tak insane khamosh rahe uski jhalat choppy rehti ha jab zuban kenchi ki trah chalna shuroo ho jay to sab ko pata chal jata ha k agla banda kitne pani main ha.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 4:43:44 PM
Message:

Dear Toronto Boy I will talk with you on Saturday or Monday.

Filhal baqi questions ko choro see the following links and just give answer of Q-6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjcCn6kIAF0&playnext_from=TL&videos=Y9nXB6btsCI&feature=sub

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ONXg1_AZ7s&feature=related

http://www.tanzeem.org/announcements/zaid%20hamid2.pdf

Kia 3 Aalim jin main se Dr. Israr ko mere khayal main sabhi mante hain jhoot bol rahe hain ????? Kia Akela Zaid Hamid Sacha ha.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 7:10:45 PM
Message:

Lo jee dobara aa gaey phir say. So, he confirmed abhi tabiat ke saffaai aur honi baaqi hai. Abhi aafaaqa nahi hua!!

Barkhurdar,

Apni umar kay 32 saal ka aik dam say dukh hona shuroo ho gaya and you felt a bit disgrace when your failure personality is discussed but you feel no botheration in keeping on posting bakwaas stuff about others including Zaid Hamid. Kuch sharam karo. Apni baat say khud he koi sabaq seekh lo.

Meray baarey main jo bhi likho uski logic bhi samajh main aati hai. Kisi teray jaisay bey-aqal maulvi ko koi "GHATYA" ya "Do Takkay ka"¨ likh kar uski tail par paaon rakh day tu who aur karey ga kiya. "Hushhhhhhhh" tu keh he diya hua hai tumko. Ab yeh sab tu karo gey hee.

Jo contradiction tum nay dhoondh rakhi hain un par sab tum par hanstay hain. Aik aqal ka andha Zaid Hamid ko kaafir qaraar denay par tula betha hai, aur munaafiq itnaa hai keh jab bhi pooch kehta hai ¡§mainay kab usko Kaafir qaraar diya¡¨. Betaa apni contradiction theek kar sab say pehlay. Jin ko tum contradiction kehtay ho who tumko contradiction iss liyey lagti hai kyun keh tumhara DABBA (ooper waali manzzal) khaali hai yaa kuch aur bhara hua hai uss main.

Agar apni zaat par taras hai tu aqal say socho kia bakwas kartay ho. Aik bhi baat ke tumko samajh nahi, Arbi kay chandd lafaz RATT liyay hain, kuch self-made designations yaad kar liyey hain aur chalay ho roab jhaarnay apni naatawaan jahaalat ka. BTW tum par koi bhi hansay tumko kia faraq parta hai. Tum par tu loge pehlay bhi hanstay thay; we have all the threads alive where your DURGAT has been made time and again by invariably all members. Who sab ghalat thay aur aik tum theek ho Mashallah.

Imam Khumeni sahib ke baat baar baar karo gey bhi tu apni he zaat ko gandaa karo gey. Kuch cheezain aisee hoti hain jo nafrat bharhaati hain. Tum ko aqal ho iss baat ke tu sharm say doob martay because you are already well known for your hate creating yelling aur ruknaa mushkil hai tumhaaray liyey. Mujhay koi aur bhi poochhay gat u main mazeed detail main bata doon ga keh mujh ko PERSONALLY Khumeni sahib say kia kia ikhtelaaf hai. Ikhtelaaf rakhnaa jaaiz hai aur iss main koi gunah nahi. Tum kiya talaash karnaa chaahtay ho iss baat main?? Mujhay tumhaaray saath aur kai aur "ulema" kay saath ......(jo Arbi kay designation ratty hain tum nay).... bhi ikhtelaaf ho saktaa hai. Tum ya who Naoozbillah Farishtay hain ya Prophets hain (Naoozbillah) jo unsay ikhtelaaf nahi ho saktaa??

Aaj tak yeh tu bata nahi sakay "Ulema" kahaan say derive kia hua lafz hai aur baseless discussion kiyey jaa rahay ho. Kia iss kay baarey main search engine say kuch nahi milaa?? Ab ikhtelaaf tu aik doosray say sab ko hai aur ho sakta hai. Iss baat par tum jaisaa ghatya insaan kisi kay eemaan ka fatwa dey gaa kia? Kahaan likhaa hua hai keh kisi "maulvi", "aalim" ya "Ulema" say ikhtelaaf nahi ho saktaa??? Bataao gey zara??? Kyun Khuda banaaey jaa rahey ho chand Maulviyon ko (Naoozbillah).? Abb asaan feham baat par bakwaas jaari rakho gey tu kia ho ga? Damaagh hai ya bhuss bhari hui hai???? Abhi bhi kehtay hai "main nonhaa qaaqaa hoon kisi ko uksaa nahi raha kisi kay khilaaf". Teray jaisee cheez 100 saal bhi pipe main daal do waisee hee rehti hai. Tum ghatya logon kaa tu kaam he yahi hai, chand ratti rattaai baatein dhoondho, logon ko provoke karo aur aag laga do moaashray main aur aman tabaah kar do. Kai loge tumhain sharam dilaa chukay hain par tumko hoti tu aati na.

As far as your non-sense about my words that Khumeni Sahib was not a maulvi is concerned, even by putting in all your efforts you could not hide your immense JAHAALAT. Aur kehtay ho maina yeh saabit kar diyaa mainay who saabit kar diyaa. Betaa tum nay sirf yeh saabit kiyaa hai aaj tak keh tum bay panaah jaahil aur fasaadi tabiat kay maalik ho. Tumhara koi bhi thread uthaa lo, pehlay say aaaj tak, 99% cases main yahi kuch dekhnay ko milay gaa. Oh jaahil aadmi, I said "Khumeni sahib koi maulvi nahi thay; rather he was a great scholar, thinker, social reformer and philospher". Tumhara damaagh agar "scholar" ka matlab nahi samjhtaa to "Ayetullah" ka kahaan say samjhay ga?? Kyun bila-waja ka zore lagaa rahay ho aisee baat par jo tumhaari aqal say bari hai??? Search engines ka stuff tumko aqal nahi dey saktaa; main he nahi aur loge bhi samjha chukay hain tumko. Jhatt say gaey Khumeni Sahib ke talaash main aur baat banaanay ke nakaam koshish kar lee. Yeh saabit kia hai tum nay??? Yahi kuch apnay CMA main bhi saabit kartay ho issi liyay baray laaiq maanay jaatey ho.

Tumhaari expected bak bak (about Ahl-e-Tashi) ka zikar iss liyey kia keh tum say kuch bhi bay aqal harkat expect ke jaa sakti hai. Gham na kar zindagee pari hai abhi. I will tell you whenever you will yell about them on this forum. Time mil gaya tu zara teri puraani harkaton par bhi nazar daura kay dekhoon gaa. Kyun? Because you are a fool who can say anything about any one. Kabhi aalimon ke aulaad ban jaatey ho, kabhi pothohaari khoon daurnay lagta hai tumhaarey ander, kabhi buhat suljha huaa act karnay kee nakaam koshish, kabhi buhat bara economist ban jaaney ka drama aur kabhi manager accounts (jisko yeh nahi pata keh uski company ko kaunsay standards apply hotay hain). Kia ho tum?? Kuch bhi kar saktay ho. Damaagh naa ho tu jo marzi karo.

Madrissay ka syllabus! Kia baaat hai. Bhaai jin madrisson say teray jaisay nikaltay hain unki end product tu nazzar aa rahi hai, ab syllabus ko dekh kay kia kuch nai baat saamnay aa jaaey gee?? And yes, while saying something about ¡§Parrots¡¨ I am neither referring the real noble men of Allah nor a few quality educational institutions. Ab Allah ka nizaam tu chal raha hai naa aur Inshallah chaltay rehna hai. Har koi teray jaisa Jaahil tu nahi. Na he saarey madrissay teray jaisay ¡§parrots¡¨ produce kartay hain. Yahaan baat teri category ke ho rahi hai; don¡¦t mix it up. Agar yeh sirf teri category ka maumla na hota tu main Sarfarz Naeemee sahib ko refer na karta. Kuch tu aqal kar yaa "bay-aqal" honay kaa certificate lay rakha hai?

Takhasus-Fil-Hadees, Mashallah kia baat ke hai bhaai sahib nay. Tum ko pata hai? Chalo maan letay hain. Tum (aur tum jaison) nay kiyaa ukhaar liyaa hai aaj tak pata honay kay baa-wajood??? Agar samjho tu yahi aik sawaal hai. Aik Islmic country main dunyaa kee har buraai peak par maujood hai; aur tum bethay raho issi khushi main keh tumko Takhasus-Fil-Hadees ka pata hai. Kia approach hai. Mujhay Quran say zara yeh Lafaz nikaal kay parhaao please, meharbaani ho gee? Agar Sahi Hadees books say parha do tub hi shukriya. :) Koi naik kaam bhi kia karo. Sirf doodh ka dabba sarak par ragarnay ke awaaz he nikaaltay rehtay ho (a compliment given by "Spectrum" to you).

Aik aur baat, logon ko tu buhat kuch kehtay phir rahay ho; khud ke khabar bhi hai kuch? Tum ko kaun see authority hai mazhabi muamlaat par logon ko defame karnay ke??? Kaun say MUFTI ya Sheikh-ul-Hadees ho tum??? Pidar-e-man sultaan bood kay chakar main fatway diyey jaa rahay ho kiaa??? Abhi end par pohancho tumhaari auqaat wohaan mazeed waazeh ho jaaey gee keh tum ho kiaa.

Hamara dukh yeh hai keh aksar auqaat jo banda kisi aur field main nahi chaltaa who mazhab par qismat aazmaai shuroo kar detaa hai, aur phir sab ka ¡§Ulema¡¨ ban beth-taa hai apnay aap hee. Sab dost ird gird nazar daal kay dekh lein, khud he pata chalay gaa keh Parrots kaisay produce hotay hain. Buhat kam loge hotay hain (I know aisay loge bhi hain; and I have good luck of being in their company) jo qualitative educational back ground rakhtay hain aur religious studies ko adapt kartay hain. Otherwise, aksariyat who hai jo kisi aur field main nahi chal sakti, har taraf say nakaam hoti hai and at the end choose religion to make it their Takhta-e-Mashq (Naoozbillah). Yeh banda iss cheez kee aik misaal hai. Abb iss say aap kia expect kar saktay hain? Yahi joy eh kar raha hai.

Your following lines are showing what you are? Koi bhi parh lay sirf yeh he kaafi hain tumhaaray munh par bey-aqali aur takabbar ke mohar lagaanay kay liye. You said:

...............I know k kuch Moderate and progressive /secular log bhee apne bachon ko hifz kerwatain take un k NATWAN kandhon pe bhet k Janat main ja sakain..............

Abb iss say zyada tumhaari zehniyat kahaan clear ho gee? Shukar hai kuch logon ko itnaa tu darr hai keh jannat main jaanaa asaan nahi. Tum jaisay aqal kay andhay nay kiyaa jannat ka ticket katwaya hua hai???????????? Hamein bhi dekhaao zara, ham bhi deedar kar lain uss ticket ka. Kis aalim kee aulaad ho jis nay tumko itni aqal bhi nahi dee????? Kyun unki matti paleed kar rahay ho. Iss say zyada zaleel harkat tum kiaa kar saktay ho? Allah kay Nabi PBUH nai aik sawal kay jawaab main khud apnay baaray main arshaad farmaya keh who apni naikiyon ke wajah say nahi, Allah ke rehmat say Jannat main jaaein gey (Mafhoom of a Hadees). Yeh Hadees ham jaison ko samjhaanay kay liyey he farmaai gai thee. Aur hamara aik Ghatya "Parrot" samjhta hai uss nay ticket ya license liya hua hai jannat ka. Kia ajeeb-ul-khalqat cheez hai yaar yeh bhi. Mainay bila-waja issko bay sharam nahi kaha. Yeh khud saabit kartaa hai har baat. Khuda ka khauf kar aur apni bakwaas par Tauba kar. Kyun apna emaan tabaah kar rahay ho sirf apnay jhoot ko paani denay kay liyey?

You know tumhaari issi aik baat par tumhaarey eeman kay baarey main tumhaarey he jaisay "Ulema" say "Fatwa" haasil kia jaa saktaa hai. Tum bihtar jaantay ho Fatwa tu mil he jaaey gaa. Aur who Fatwa agar main laaa kar yahaan copy kar doon tu kiaa haalat ho gee tumhaari. Doob kay mar jaao gey agar zara bhi sharam hui tu. Kyun keh Fatwa ka charhchaa tu khud kar he chukay ho. Mukar tu saktay nahi ho. But I know tumko sharam hai he nahi.

Tum nay sahi kaha jab tak insane khaamosh rahey uski jahaalat chhupi rehti hai. Tumhaari above harkat nay tumhaari jahaalat sab par khol khol kay bayaan kar dee hai. Zara bhi sharam hai tu Kuffaraa adaa karo iss Takkabar ka aur Fazool tareen baat ka aur Allah say muaafi mango. Tumhaarey haq main ab yahi bihtar hai.

BTW mujhay pata hai tumko sharam tu nahi aani.


Regards to all readers,


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Apr 01 2010 8:50:58 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by awaisaftab

Dear Toronto Boy I will talk with you on Saturday or Monday.

Filhal baqi questions ko choro see the following links and just give answer of Q-6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjcCn6kIAF0&playnext_from=TL&videos=Y9nXB6btsCI&feature=sub

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ONXg1_AZ7s&feature=related

http://www.tanzeem.org/announcements/zaid%20hamid2.pdf

Kia 3 Aalim jin main se Dr. Israr ko mere khayal main sabhi mante hain jhoot bol rahe hain ????? Kia Akela Zaid Hamid Sacha ha.




Awais Sahib

Mayri post ka maqsaad app say bahas karna nahi hay, aur nahi lambi lambi post karkay apna ya readers ka waqt zaya karna hay.

Haan iss tamam soorat-e-haal main jo mayri samjh main aya wo main nay pahlay bhi byan kia tha aur mazeed byan kardia hay. In essence, mayray khayal main iss tamam maslay ki haysiat storm in a cup of tea say zyada nahi hay. Agarcha dosray muslims par iss tarha ki onglian othanay kay buhat bhayanak natayaj nikaltay hain. Yahi baat main samjhanay ki koshish karraha hon. Iss tamam exercise say sirf intishaar payda hosakta hay jo pahlay hi buhat zyada hay aur mazeed barh raha hay. Iss baat ka andaza iss baat say bhi lagaya jasakta hay kay sirf chand dino kay under iss muaamlay ki aaar main (mayray khyal main) kisi teesray fareeq (3rd party) nay aik jayad aalim ko Qatal kar dya hay aur oska ilzam aik doosray muslim (Zaid Hamid) par jaaraha hay. Nateeja kia hay, Pakistan aur muslims kay dusman apni apni dushmania iss maslay kay pichay nikaal rahay hain.

Agar iss baat ko mazeed aagay barhaya gya to aagay bhi yahi nataij niklain ga.

Mayray khyal main mayra point of view readers par kafi clear ho chuka hay. Agar main nay mazeed zaroorat samjhi, interest aur time hoa to mazeed likh donga.

Wassalam


Reply author: swagutt
Replied on: Apr 02 2010 12:16:15 PM
Message:

"""""There was a time when muslims were striving to convert others to Islam.

Now we always keep looking how some one can be kicked out of this Islamic circle.

Result is so clear as some one explained keh hamein har jaga kyun maar par rahi hai.""""


Very well said Mr. Kamran realy appreciate what you have pointed Out!! :)


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 02 2010 1:22:32 PM
Message:

Dear

Allah ke rehmat hai keh sharaafat, ikhlaaq aur ikhlaas waaley loge aaj bhi zinda hain; aur woh aalim bhi jin ko Allah ke wilaayet haasil hai. Allah ka deen tu kaamil hai aur Allah ka nizaam bhi chalna hai, the issue is about what we are and what are those on whom general public largely base its faith considering them as ilam wala.

Yahi so-called "ilam waaley" hain jo pooray Pakistan ka aman tabah kar rahey hain, directly or indirectly. Logon ko sar-e-aam koray maartay hain, goliyaan barsaatey hain, bomb phortay hain, Jannnat kay ticket detay hain, sar-e-aam Muslims ke gardanein kaat daaltay hain aur uss par fakhar kartay hain, 17 crore logon ko munaafiq aur wajab-ul-qatal kehtay hain, aur poori dunyaa main Muslims ko gandda kar rahey hein.

Yahi Islaam kay thekadaar hain jo har kisi ko kaafir qaraar detay hain, samjhaanay par bhi baaz nahi aatey, logon kay eemaan par ungliyaan uthaatay hain, aur self-asssumed authorities ka parchaar kartay rehtay hain (jo inn jaahilon ko kahin na Islam nay dee hai naa Qaanoon nay).

Allah say duaa karein keh Allah muslims ko iss tarah kay jaahilon say panaah ata farmaaey aur sahi raastay par chalnay ke taufeeq ata karey.

Regards,


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Apr 02 2010 5:19:09 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Toronto_Boy

quote:
Originally posted by awaisaftab

Dear Toronto Boy I will talk with you on Saturday or Monday.

Filhal baqi questions ko choro see the following links and just give answer of Q-6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjcCn6kIAF0&playnext_from=TL&videos=Y9nXB6btsCI&feature=sub

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ONXg1_AZ7s&feature=related

http://www.tanzeem.org/announcements/zaid%20hamid2.pdf

Kia 3 Aalim jin main se Dr. Israr ko mere khayal main sabhi mante hain jhoot bol rahe hain ????? Kia Akela Zaid Hamid Sacha ha.




Awais Sahib

Mayri post ka maqsaad app say bahas karna nahi hay, aur nahi lambi lambi post karkay apna ya readers ka waqt zaya karna hay.

Haan iss tamam soorat-e-haal main jo mayri samjh main aya wo main nay pahlay bhi byan kia tha aur mazeed byan kardia hay. In essence, mayray khayal main iss tamam maslay ki haysiat storm in a cup of tea say zyada nahi hay. Agarcha dosray muslims par iss tarha ki onglian othanay kay buhat bhayanak natayaj nikaltay hain. Yahi baat main samjhanay ki koshish karraha hon. Iss tamam exercise say sirf intishaar payda hosakta hay jo pahlay hi buhat zyada hay aur mazeed barh raha hay. Iss baat ka andaza iss baat say bhi lagaya jasakta hay kay sirf chand dino kay under iss muaamlay ki aaar main (mayray khyal main) kisi teesray fareeq (3rd party) nay aik jayad aalim ko Qatal kar dya hay aur oska ilzam aik doosray muslim (Zaid Hamid) par jaaraha hay. Nateeja kia hay, Pakistan aur muslims kay dusman apni apni dushmania iss maslay kay pichay nikaal rahay hain.

Agar iss baat ko mazeed aagay barhaya gya to aagay bhi yahi nataij niklain ga.

Mayray khyal main mayra point of view readers par kafi clear ho chuka hay. Agar main nay mazeed zaroorat samjhi, interest aur time hoa to mazeed likh donga.

Wassalam



Dear Toronto Boy

No Aalim of any sect support so called Terhrik e Taliban Pakistan this is on record that even Mullah Umer and former leaders of Talban led Afghan Government have clearly denied any link with Tehrik –e-Taliban Pakistan beside it the ex official of Taliban led govt. also criticized the suicide attack by Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan. The unanimous opinion of Ulema has come which declares suicide attacks as against the teachings of Islamic. Gen. Hameed Gull and Gen. Hamid Navaz, ex interior minister, have opinion that India and Israel were involved in swat beside it many intelligence reports are the proof of this fact. During Swat operation armed forced caught many people who were non-Muslims. Kuch dead bodies jo mili hain fighters ki wo circumcision k baghair theen. The illiteracy, unemployment, poverty were major causes of Swat trouble. The foreign intelligence agencies use these social evil and exploit the religious sentiments of local people beside all the drown attacks by U.S forces played work of oil on fire in then prevailing situation.
There is need of analysis of foreign policy regarding U.S and Afghanistan and U-Turn in Afghan policy of Pakistan after 9/11. I don’t want to say anything for or against Taliban Govt. but example of Iran is before us. Although Iran Govt. has reservations and conflicts with Taliban Govt. but Iran did not become the part of that exercise rather Irani Govt. and people had a desire of winning of war by Taliban.
(which was much difficult in then prevailing situation)
Simple America conquered Afghanistan after US control at Afghanistan India established relation with karzai Govt. The political analysts were raising issue of establishing number of high commissions by India in Afghanistan . These high commissioners were involved in the swat valley. How some non trained people can fight for many months with the most disciplined army of the world??. How these so called Taliban had got such heavy weapons ???

Ek waqay swat k hawalay se likh don hamare muhale k madarse main ek larka parhta ha jis ka taluq swat se ha us k eek relative swat ki ek masjid ke Imam hain. Imam sahib ne ek bar Jume k khutbe main swat k Taliban pe tanqeed kee sakht alfaz main. Raat ko un Aalim ka saga Bhanja jo Taliban ka saathi tha aya aur bare muadib andaz main arz kia k” Mamoon Jan kal Sabah Fajir kee Namaz ke baad apko Zebah ker dia Jay ga”. Beherhall raton raat jerga munaqad hua aur bohat sare mouzizzeen ko beech main dala gaya tab un aalim ke jan bakhshy huyee.

As far as Zaid Hamid is concerned no one kicks a dead dog have you seen his program at Minare Pakistan in which only few dozens people could be seen including camera men. I think this issue has resolved bulk apne mantaqi anjam ko phonch gaya. After all my reservations about him I don’t think Zaid Hamid as Non Muslim.


At this thread I was compelled to use rough language ( by continuous personal attacks for last two months)I am ignoring personal attack for last two month not only at this thread but also at many other threads. This fact will be acknowledged by all of you that I am showing patience for many months but my tolerance was seemed as my weakness. Many people (i.e Ajnabi,Great Khan,Dard, Schuaeb,ysir,tariq sohail and June 23 a.m) pointed out misbehave of a member but all efforts were remain fruitless. After all in future I will try my best to avoid rough language.

Dear Toronto Boy

Difference of opinion apni jaga main ap k opinions ka ehtram kerta hun differences to family members k dermian tak hote hain lekin ikhtilafe ray ko zati dushmanion main tabdeel nhn kerna chaye. Mazee main mere ap k sath bohat achay taluqat rahay hain we never involved in personal attack on each other but at this thread main ne observe kia ke apne baaz jaghon pe thoree sakht zuban use kee. Anyhow I expect a good relation with you in future.


Thanks and warm regards,

Awais Aftab


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 02 2010 6:14:23 PM
Message:


Dears

Last post of this man used a bit of sense although the purpose of thread was disputed, biased, senseless and derogative.

I have already suggested that "achay bachhay ban jaao tu sab theek hai"; aur agar nahi bano gey tu durgat tu pehlay bhi bani hai (kai aik members say) aur mazeed banti rahey gee. Chaahey koi baat tumhaari weekness ho ya strength iss say koi faraq nahi parnay wala.

Jab jab iss kay saath misbehave hua hai uskay peechay iskee koi nihaayet ghatya harkat maujood thee. Buhat saari examples main dey chuka hoon where he has opened his mouth about Karachiites, Sects, Languages, etc for no reason and no provocation and one example where he has indirectly declared to have a ticket or license of heavens showing immense Takabbar and jahaalat. One example is of this thread where he left no stone unturned to defame a muslim. At another place he tried to soil the faith of our fellow GreatKhans after which he has almost given up appearing on the forum. So, buhat saari misaalein hain. Agar yeh apna analysis khud karey aur aainda aisee harkaat say ijtenaab karey tu koi issue he nahi hai.

Yes, I have already cautioned him keh koi aur isske ghalat harkat point out karey ya na karey, main zaroor karoon gaa because he has been given margin of errors so many times. Isko yeh misbehave samjhta hai tu samjhtaa rahey. Jo iskay khayal main misbehave point out kar hukay hain woh tu khud time and again iski tabiat saaf kar chukay hain ghatya baaton ke wajah say. Uss baat ke misaal yeh kabhi nahi dey gaa. Khair kiyaa detail main jana; sab ko ilam he hai isskaa.

Torontoboy has very well said that har baat par “chill” nahi kia jaa sakta; and I personally believe some one must take a step to answer the non-sense because it has already been destroying our society extremely.

So, hoping to see him “acha bacha” in his next posts; I too close down this topic. However, I am here if some need will arise.

Regards,


KAMRAN.


Reply author: MRS
Replied on: Apr 02 2010 7:28:05 PM
Message:

These were the words of George Bush after 9/11

“ Either you are with us or you are with them”

This is a mindset of a rigid person and no doubt the same mindset can be found in abundance in our country. That’s why any one who disagrees with them is labelled as agent of an Israeli or Indian lobby. These so called self appointed custodians of Islam has been given free hand to declare any one disagreeing with them as kafir. One try to talk with reasoning and they will catch your words twist it and display a meaning which was never meant by one. To prove their point they will even borrow the point of view of their rivals just because it meets their objective. They give status to the scholars of Islamic jurisprudence equal to the Prophet and their understanding cannot be challenged. You have no right to disagree with them. All you are allowed is to remain silent. They have killed many innocent people in the name of Blasphemy even the likes of Dr. Israr Ahmed were not spared and has been virtually banned on most of the channels just because he spoke a truth which we are not ready to buy.

They are not ready to accept that one can be neutral and argue on merits rather than on personal liking and disliking. They say if you are not against Zaid Hamid then you are with him.

They have destroyed the entire society in last sixty years and are still dreaming of conquering the entire world. Their house is on fire and they are arguing who has set it on fire. They are in minority but their views are imposed on majority as majority has been kept uneducated so that they cannot ask questions. In fact asking questions on Islam is discouraged so that we keep on repeating what has been told to us. They know if we start thinking then their business will be over.

Shame on those who use religion to satisfy their ego. No point in arguing with them leave them at Allah’s disposal he will treat them accordingly.

Regards

M.Rizwan


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Apr 02 2010 8:17:09 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by MRS

These were the words of George Bush after 9/11

“ Either you are with us or you are with them”

This is a mindset of a rigid person and no doubt the same mindset can be found in abundance in our country. That’s why any one who disagrees with them is labelled as agent of an Israeli or Indian lobby. These so called self appointed custodians of Islam has been given free hand to declare any one disagreeing with them as kafir. One try to talk with reasoning and they will catch your words twist it and display a meaning which was never meant by one. To prove their point they will even borrow the point of view of their rivals just because it meets their objective. They give status to the scholars of Islamic jurisprudence equal to the Prophet and their understanding cannot be challenged. You have no right to disagree with them. All you are allowed is to remain silent. They have killed many innocent people in the name of Blasphemy even the likes of Dr. Israr Ahmed were not spared and has been virtually banned on most of the channels just because he spoke a truth which we are not ready to buy.

They are not ready to accept that one can be neutral and argue on merits rather than on personal liking and disliking. They say if you are not against Zaid Hamid then you are with him.

They have destroyed the entire society in last sixty years and are still dreaming of conquering the entire world. Their house is on fire and they are arguing who has set it on fire. They are in minority but their views are imposed on majority as majority has been kept uneducated so that they cannot ask questions. In fact asking questions on Islam is discouraged so that we keep on repeating what has been told to us. They know if we start thinking then their business will be over.

Shame on those who use religion to satisfy their ego. No point in arguing with them leave them at Allah’s disposal he will treat them accordingly.

Regards

M.Rizwan




Rizwan jab behas end pe ha to yeh koshish honee chaye k mazeed uljhao na peda ho .Aap ne bhee to Ulema ke hawalay se bat kee thee Ghazway Hind k uper . Zahiri baat ha k sare ulmah to ek jaise nhn hain. Ap ne Dr. Israr ka zikar kia ha mujh ko moujooda mamle ka achi tarah ilm ha. Main Dr. Israr kee bohat izat kerta hun but ager hum Dr. Israr ke current mozu pe behas karainge to waqayee ek na khatam hone walee sectarian larayee shroo ho jay gi.

Its a request k behas ko samethnay kee koshish kerain jo ikhtilafat Ulema 1400 main khatam nhn kersake,halanke unke pas baherhal hum se ziada ilm tha, hum kis trah khattam ker saktain hain. Ab app yeh poochaygay k main ne yeh thread shru qun kia to iska jawab ha k Is thread ka maqsad sirf Zaid Hamid k bare main information dena tha.

Waise bhee ab Zaid Hamid Qissay Pareena ban chuka ha aur is thread ka maqsad pura ho chuka ha.Main ne ap se request kee hai agay mamla ap k hath main hai.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Apr 02 2010 8:19:02 PM
Message:

Har kisi k pas zuban ha aur do hath bhee hain koyee jo chay likh sakta ha koyee dosra usko rok nhn sakta we don't know personally about majority of members. Whenever I will feel k mere sath misbehave huwa ha main dobara moonh tor jawab donga. Koyee kisi ghalat fhemi main na rahe. Yahan ek do dafa hi iskee main ne class li to tabiat saaf ho gaye . Mager ab yeh galion pe uter aya. Jis ko log itnee izat dtain hain aur bhayee bhayee kehtay hain usne apna Bud Batin logon k samne sabit ker dia. Galion har koyee de sakta ha net pe ap kisi ka kuch nhn bigar sakte. Hum logon ne mukhtalif logon aur members k zehan main khake banaye hue hain yeh khake hum uski zuban k istimal aur jo alfaz woh use kerta ha unke base pe banatain hain. Ek banda jo galian de raha ho us k kirdar, social background ,professionalism k bare main log kia ray rakhain gay mujh ko batane kee zaroorat nhn ha. Abhi ek thread chall raha tha IQ k hawale se wahan aisay aisay personal attack huy k sharam aati ha but administration has not taken any action. Kehne ka maqsad yeh ha k koyeee galion main bohat agay nikal sakta ha koyee khas restriction nhn ha but logon ko pata chal jata ha k yeh banda kitna ghatiya ha. Log tarle to dalain gay ap k agay but ap logon ke nazron se gir jain gay. Ho sakta ha k mere kuch views ghalat hon lekin main ne kabhi gali ka jawab gali se nhn dia qun k meri tarbiat isi tarah huyee ha.


Jhan tak durgat ki baat ha to in mohtram ko great khan ne ek dafa whaila admi bhee keh dia tha lekin yeh bardasht ker gay. Qun k is ko pata tha k great khan iski mazeed kia durgat bana sakta ha. Pracs , Mroneflower aur dosron ne jo durgat banayee ha mujh ko pata ha.Main un k link yahan de sakta hun lekin yeh gatia harkatina ghatia log hi kerte hain Mere samne yeh is liay chora ho raha ha qun k is ko pata ha k main gali ka jawab gali se nhn deta is ka andaza is ko Is recession Really Here wale thread pe huwa.

Jhan tak Karachi walon kee baat ha to mere dil main un se koyee bughaz ya nufrat nhn ha yeh log hamare liay qable izat hain qun k in k buzurgon ne deen k liay hijrat ki. But Karachi walon se is baat pe iktilaf ha k wo jo claim kerte hain k Karachi pure mulk ko 70% revenue deta ha. Lekin is tarah ka ikhtilaf mujh ko qoumparst sindhion aur pathanon se bhe ah. Ap log ager dekhna chate hain ke Karachi k mamle pe behas kis tarah shroo huyee to thread dekh lain “Is recession really here”. Us thread pe baat challi thee ehle zuban kee k kon urdu ka ahle zuban ha is ne bhee apne remarks diay aur main ne bhee taqreeban same remarks diay lekin kuch arse bad ek member aya Spectrum usne meri simple see post ko reply ker k seedhi seedhi Punjab ko galian deen jawaban main ne bhee kuch sakht posts keen bad main yeh spectrum musalsal galian deta raha. Great Khan ek senior shaks hain mager unka kirdar bhee whan pe kuch positive nhn raha. Asal behas kee jar Spectrum tha jo yahan pe mess create ker k chala gaya mera sakht moqif great khan kee waja se nhn tha balke spectrum kee waja se tha mager great khan ne bhee bad main kafi sakht discussion huyee. Whan log itna agay barh gay thay k ek sahib ne ek video ka link de dia is video main Pakistan Army ko Indian army ke samne Dhaka main surrender kerte huy dikhaya gaya tha aur back ground main Pakistan ka qoumi Tarana baj raha tha. Is video ko dekh ker mujh ko inthayee afsoas huwa balke ap keh sakain hain main zehni tor pe hil ke reh gaya.
Jald hee mujh ko ehsas ho gaya k jo kuch ho raha ha ghalat ho raha ha main ne apnee tamam posts delete keen baghair kisi pressure ke aur great khan se request kee k app bhee apnee posts delete ker dain mager unhon ne koyee response na dia. Main ne admin se request kee mager whan se bhee koyee jawab na aya.( Mere liay jo cheez masla ker rahi thee wo galian theen jo Punjab ke Khilaf likhee gayee theen. Werna abhee bhee spectrum sahib ke wo qaseeday whan mojood hain jo unhon ne meri shan main kahe mujh ko to yeh shaks bhee galian de raha ha mager main ne kisee ko nhn kaha k is ko pressurize kero Is k ilawa mujh ko dar tha k kisi bhee waqt dobara shaded kisim kee jang saktee ha Punjabi Muhajir k mamle per) Akkir main jab kuch na ban saka to main ne is ko mail kee jis ka zikar yeh koyee 100 dafa ker chukka ha us waqt main is k bare main samajta tha k yeh Punjab se belong kerta ha. Mail is liay kee thee k jin posts main Punjab k khilaf batain hain unko delete kerwaya jay .Main to discussion se nikal aya tha apnee sari posts delete ker k mere liay kia tension thee ager mujh ko apne khilaf likhe gayee batain delete kerwanee hotin to spectrum ki galian abhi bhee mojood hain main unko delete kerwane k liay bohat kuch ker sakta tha mager main ne kabhi apnee zaat k liay koshish nhn kee. Anyhow mera is ne meree request pe ek kaam kia baat beshak Punjab kee thaee but request main ne hee kee thaee iss Ahsane Azeem k liay main iska shukria ada kerta hun. Mager yeh abtak 100 dafa us mail ka dhandora peet chukka ha. Ager is ko shoq ha to wo mail yahan baqida ek thread banay acha sa title rakhay aur whan paste ker de mujh ko koyee eitraz nhn ha.


Ye shaks jab arbitrator k tor pe us thread pe meree request pay aya to is ne whan likha tha ke yeh saree larayee action reaction or reaction action kee wajah se huyee. Yeh bat is ne sahi kahi thee

Main ne yeh saree explaination is liay dee ha ke yahan propaganda kia ja rah ha ke main ne ethnics kee buniyad pe fasad berpa kerne kee koshish kee thee. Asal jang spectrum ne shroo ke thee meree jis post k reply main Punjab ko galian deen theen wo post taqreeban same to same is shaks kee post ke tarah he thee jo is ne whan kee thee. Ager mujh ko lasani fasadat kerwanay kee koshissh ka mujrim qarar dia jata ha to phir is ko bhee dia jay. Beherhal main isko ilzam nhn de raha na Great khan ko asal fasad ke jar Spectrum tha.

Han ek baat reh gayee CA walon kee asal main is ko asal chur mugh se isi liay ha k is k khayal main mujh ko CA walon se sakht dushmanee ha. Dears professional competition apnee jagah but main CA’s k liay koyee bughaz nhn rakhta. Mere kayee friend CA.s hain. Main to aesay aesay logon ko janta hun jo big firms main higher officials hain. Ager kisi ko andaza kerna ho to mery post purh le Code of Corporate Governance pe aur mukhtalif jaghope jo information main ne likhi hai wo mujh ko ACA’s ne hee dee thee ACA’s bhe wo jo big four k sath hain. Mere bohat sare teachers jinhon kee main dill se izat kerta hun CA’s hain.

Chalo man latin hain thoree dare ke liay ke tum ne jo misbehave kia uska jawaz tha but yeh misbehave to uswaqt bhee nazar aata ha jab mujh ko is forum ka member banay huyee juma juma 8 din huy tha. What was the logic of that misbehave. This Question should must be replied on some logical basis.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 02 2010 10:18:01 PM
Message:

MRS,

My brother, we must thank to almighty Allah that has made the persons who have learnt to speak truth even in the era about which Prophet PBUH's prophecies make it too clear that truth speaking will be too difficult.

Obviously, we all are seeing and have been witnessing where have we been landed and how the religion is being used for assuming authorities, judging faiths, declaring muslim/non-muslim, declaring others maghrab zada, NGO zada and buying/selling heavens licenses.

I believe in this era it is inevitable to face illiterate mindset, reply their negativities coherrently and to develop courage to curb out their evil activities.

I appreciated your posting the detailed analysis about Ghazva-e-Hind (written by an aalim-e-din) and I also appreciate your true concern about the ugly face of so-called leaseholders of Islam.

Keep on posting things of wisdom and true justification.


All other readers,

Baat Punjab ke ho ya Sindh ke no body here wishes to act against the common well being of our country Pakistan and as such all provinces and ethnic groups are brothers to each other.

However, jab bhi aik aadmi ko mauqa milay aur woh ethnicity basis par apna zehar ugalna shuroo kar dey tu loge uski trouser utaar he detay hain. Yahi iss "parrot" kay saath hua. Iss main na Spectrum ka qasoor thaa aur naa Greatkhans ka. Ab agar aap jee bhar kay zehar ugal lain, bakwaas kar lein, aur phir mujhay bachaao mujhay bachaao cheekhtay phirain tu loge aap ko kia kahein gey??

Kuch cats and dogs (and also one insect) yahan thay jin ko sirf aik aadmi nay face kiaa and eventually those cats and dogs reached to their conclusion. Every one knows that when you are to save something, you have to face the hardships and inconveniences specially jab wasta cats and dogs say para ho; iss samajh say baalaa tar shakhs ko zara time lagay ga samjhnay main. Majority of those cats and dogs was thoroughly proved as liers and fabricators and their face was shown to public at large. Aisay logon kay lawyers ko bhi aakhir andaza ho gaya tha keh unkay clients jhootay hain aur bakwaas kartay hain. Abb yeh naya uthaa hai cats and dogs ka lawyer, ya representative.

Ohh bhayya kuch aqal say kaam lo. Proven aur dhatkaarey huey liers kee baat karo gey jo jhootay designations use kartay thay aur 2 accounts say message post kartay thay khud ko sacha saabit karnay kay liye tu un main he shumaar ho jaao gey. Apni rahi sahi patt bachaao, kyun apni izzat kaa lehaaz nahi tum ko??

Jahaan tak is kay reference kee baat hai tu yeh itnaa jaahil hai keh PRACS ka naam bhi likh diyaa iss nay jo aik nihaayat reasonable aadmi hai and who is like my brother. Abhi aap khud andaza laga lain iski zehni haalat aur zehar ugalnay ke tendency ka. Kuch socha na samjha bass likh diyaa. Aaj tak yahi aik baat hai jo isko marwa rahi hai.


Tabiat ke saffaai ke baat karta hai. Yeh nadaan bhatka hua bacha karey ga he kiaa? Abhi aik umar chaahiyey isko sirf understanding clear karnay kay liye. Actually issko aaj tak samajh he nahi keh tabiat ke saffaai kisko kehtay hain. Kabhi apni izzat kaa ehsaas hua aur kabhi issko pata chala keh "sharam" kia hoti hai tu shaayed tab thora pata chalay ga issko iss baat kaa. (Mainay kaha tha topic close kar doon, laikan nahi). Aur yahi harkat iss nay hamesha ke hai. Spectrum aur GreatKhans ka naam leta hai yeh, abhi un main say koi bhi jawab denay aa gaya tu isskee patloon geelee ho jaani hai. Ab yeh kahey ga keh misbehave ho raha hai. Ohh bhayya unkay saamnay ghighee bandhi hoti hai tumhaari, aur ab pata hai woh nahi hain tu bharkain maar rahay ho.

Aik baat agar damaagh main aa sakay tu samajh lo, kaam aaey ge. Kisi illogical aur ghair ikhlaaqi baat kay saamnay sach ka saath dena aur uskay liye cats and dogs ke bhaaon bhaaon ke parwah na karna aur baat hai, AUR, apni persistent kam aqli, bey sharmi aur ghalat zehni kaifiyet ke wajah say bey izzati karwaaey jana doosri baat. Issi liye Jehad aur aam Laraai main buhat bara faraq hai jab keh nuqsaan tu dono taraf ka hota hai. (Just an example). Baat samajh jaao gey tu umar bhar kaam aaey gee, nahi samjho gey tu baqaol tumhaari bhaaoon bhaaon kay main waila aadmi tu hoon he, yaheen umar guzray gee tumhaari meray saath. Inshallah.

Qibla achi tabiyat waaley bhaai sahib farmaatay hain keh yeh ghatya harkat nahi kartay lehaza koi link post nahi karein gey. Mashallah kiaa cheez hain yeh. Zaleel harkatein jin ke wajah say yeh saari behas hai woh theen kiyaa? Zaid Hamid kay baarey mein link post karna. Kaun kaun saa link post nahi kiaa iss nay aik Zaid Hamid ko kaafir saabit karnay kay liye; aur itnay naik hain keh aisee "ghatya harkatein" tu yeh kartay he nahi. Kia baat hai.

Har shakhs nay issko iss thread par samjhaya hai par yeh baaz nahi ayaa and now like pigeon has closed his eyes and says iss thread ka maqsad pooraa ho gaya hai aur Zaid maazi ka qissa ban gaya hai. Piyaarey, Zaid ko jo nahi bhi jaantay thay woh bhi iss thread ke wajah say jaan gaey hain, jo usko pasand nahi bhi kartay, unhon nay bhi teri kareeh harkat kee wajah say usko support kia hai; aur tu kehta hai maqsad pooraa ho gaya hai.

Mainay aik post main detail say analysis diyaa thaa baaqi muamaalaat kaa bhi jahaan teray jaisay samjhtay hain unkaa maqsad pooraa ho chukaa hai. Zyada detail main jana chaahtay ho tu bata denaa.

Abhi doston say ijaazat, kal phir miltay hain issi jaga issi thread par, issi mauzoo par, non-sense ko face karnay kay liye aur suitable reply denay kay liye.


Regards,


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 02:46:47 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by awaisaftab
... Mazee main mere ap k sath bohat achay taluqat rahay hain we never involved in personal attack on each other but at this thread main ne observe kia ke apne baaz jaghon pe thoree sakht zuban use kee. Anyhow I expect a good relation with you in future.

Awais Aftab




Bhai Awais

Mayray dil main bhi apki janib koi kadoorat nahi hay. Main yahan yah wazah kardon kay main nay apkay yani "Awais Aftab" kayliay mayray khyal main intentionally koi sakht zaban istimaal nahi ki hay. Haan main iss general idealogy say zaroor ikhtilaaf rakhta hon jis ki waja say yah thread start hua. Agar phir bhi aap yah samajhtay hain kay main nay aapkay liay koi sakht alfaz kahay hon to mayri janib say maazrat qobool karain.

Kutch aakhri alfaz kay tor par main yah zaroor kahna chahonga kay kutch mamlaat buhat nazuk hotay hain jaysay zaat paat, lissan, aur deen-o-mazhab waghaira. Inn par kutch kahnay say pahlay kafi ghor karlayna chahyay khas toor par Deen kay baray main baat karnay say pahlay. Khas toor par ham muslims kayliay yah buhat aham maslaa hay.

Bhai mayray, mujhay yahan bhi aapsay ikhtilaaf hay kay sab Ulema nay suicidal attacks aur taliban kay khilaaf fatwa dya hay. Kam az kam mayri nigah say itni lambi list of Ulema's nahi guzri jinhon nay taliban kay khilaaf fatwa dya ho. Balkay mayray ilm aur samjh kay mutabiq to chand big ulema kay ilawa majority (including big mazhabi political leaders and a mazhabi political party) to talibaan kay darparda saathi hain, onhain moral support kartay hain, onkay liay rai-aamma hamwar kartay hain, onko aur khud ko aik hi sikkay kay do (two) rokh kahtay hain, kahtay hain kay sirf "zara sa" tariqay ka farq hay.

Mayray bhai, kia ham roz marrra main aik doosray kay baray main yah nahi kahtay kay falan tu wahabi hay, falan tu shea hay, ya falan punjabi/sindhi/pathan etc. hay. Bhai, yah sab batain deemak ki tarha hoti hain, deemak ki tarha amal karti hain, aahista aahista society main intishaar payda karti hain, bhai ko bhai say larati hain, muslim ko muslim ka dushman banati hain. Agar hamara aapas main yah haal hay tu aqliaton (minoroties) kay saath hamara kia sulook hoga. Ham sabko maloom hay kay ham onkay saath kia sulook rawa rakhtay hain. Bhai, kia as Pakistani tamam minorities ko equal rights nahi honay chayay. Kia ham practically equal rights daytay bhi hain onko apni individual day to day life main? Aap khud apnay aap say inn questions ka jawab thanday dil sochain.

Bhai, deen main tu narmi, tadabbur, aur tahamul hay. Iss waqt sub-continent (bar-e-sagheer) main total world muslim population kay taqreeban 50% muslims rahtay hain. Ham khud kahtay hain kay yahan Islam sufis aur arab traders nay phaylaya. Tu bhai kia onhon nay ghair muslims kay saath istarha ka sulook kia tha jaysa aaj ham apnay hi muslim bhaion kay saath kartay hain? Kia onhon nay dosray muslims kay 10 ya 15 saal puranay relations (baqool Kamran garay murdon say) ginway thay? Bhai, agar unn Sofia karaam aur arab traders ka aysa amal hota to shayad aaj ham main say koi muslim hi sub-continent main mojood nahi hota. Bhai kia ham aik doosray ki tangain hi iss tarha nahi kaat rahay hain? Kia ham doosron ko hansnay ka moqa nahi day rahay hain? Kia ham iss tarha kay baykaar muaamlaat main apni hi energies zaya nahi karrahay hain? Jabkay aaj hamain unity ki pahlay say zyada zaroorat hay, ham kia mazeed bikhar nahi rahay hain?

Bhai aaj ki dunya main mukhtalif tarha kay groups hotay hain, jinkay apnay apnay interest hotay hain, wo apnay apnay interests creat kartay hain aur protect kartay hain. Jab onkay interests par zarb parti hay ya tanqeed hoti hay tu wo bhi mukhalif party par directly aur "INDIRECTLY" hamlay kartay hain aur onko giranay ki koshish kartay hain, by hook or by crook. Bhai, hamaray mulk main illetracy pahlay hi buhat zyada hay. Kam az kam educated logon ko tu cheezon ko thora deeply analyze karna chayay. Aksar cheezain jiss tarha hamain roz-marra main dikhai dayti hain, aksaar waysi asal main hoti nahi hain, balkay onkay pichay koi aur baat ya maqsad chupa hota hay. Bhai kam az kam educated logon ko tu sabar say, soch samjh kar qadam uthana chayay. Ya phir Punjab kay village ki tarha jab kisi sakhs nay apnay neighbour say dushmani aur makhaasmat nikalni thi tu os nay village molvi ko jaakar kah dya kay osnay Naoozubillah Quraan jalatay daikha hay aur molvi sahib nay masjid kay loud speaker par chillana aur logon ko oksana shoru kardya aur phir os hafiz-quraan ko public lynching say shaheed kardya gya.

Kia Zaid Hamid kay muaamlay main bhi yahi kutch tu nahi horaha?

Bhai, Yosuf Ali kay muaamlay main bhi kam az kam Pakistan ki had tak hi Ijma-e-umat ya tamam firqon kay fiqaheen ka Ijmaa to karlaytay jo sab milkar kutch decide karta aur qom ka ospar consensus hota, phir osko akhri adalaat (Supreme Court ya Federal Shariat Court) tak lay kar jatay, wahan say faysla laytay, aur phir Gov't jo bhi saza dayti aur ospar amal karti. Bhai yah to Ulema ki zimmaydari thi kay "Yousuf Ali" ki "HIFAZAT" kartay aur logon aur awam ko samjhatay kay wo Naozubillah agar nabuwat ka dawaydaar hay to koi ordinary muslim ossay koi nuqsaan nahi pohancha day.

Aur hoa iskay bur-aks, kisi nay thik tariqa istimaal nahi kia, individual level par fatway barish ki bondon ki tarha tapaknay lagay, na hi tamam fiqaheen ka ijmaa hoa, na baat mulki insaaf ki aakhri adaalat tak pohanchi, aur aik emotional, short sighted, cold blooded murderer nay "Yousuf" ko Qatal kar dya. Khas kam jahan pak. Chalo qissaa hi tamam hua. Ab koi molvi hazraat kay khilaaf nahi bolay ga.

Bhai mayray, kisi ko non-muslim qarar dayna ya "kazib" kahna kia mamooli baat hay kia? Har baat kay kutch khas taqazaay hotay hain. Kia kisi makhsoos firqay ya chand firqon kay Ulema kay individual fatwon say koi bhi muslim ya dosray muslim firqay non-muslim qarar paa saktay hain? Bhai agar aysa hay tu phir sab ko aik doosray kay khilaaf talwarain otha layni chayay aur sab ko aik doosray ki gardan zani kardayni chahyay. Door ki baat choryay, issi waja say Para Chinaar, Hungo, aur FATA main yah sab ho hi raha hay. Aur ham sab big cities main rahnay walay aam muslims bhi dosron kay liay dilon main bughz liay baythay hain, farq sirf yah hay kay FATA main amal horaha hay aur ham karachi ya lahore main kar nahi paatay.

Bhai kahnay ka maqsaad yah hay kay "Yousuf Ali" ko kinaaray tak tu pohanchatay. Phir jab hujjat tamam hojati tu kisi ko ossay "kizaab" kahnay main koi shak ya diqqat nahi hoti.

Chalain agar tab nahi hoa to ab hi jo amal ho chuka osko thik karlain. Ab aap aur wo tamam dini hazraat jinko aik dafan shuda murday say Islam par koi aanch aati nazar aati hay, wo aagay aain aur kam az kam Pakistan kay tamam firqon kay aalimon say Yosuf kay muamlay par consensus develop karain aur koi collective result samnay lain. Oskay baad agar agar Pakistan ki Courts aur Law ijazat dayta ho to oskay case ko last court of law say decision karwain. Agar aysa nahi hota, tu bhai phir to log yousuf ali kay case ko bhi shak say daikhain gay aur Zaid Hamid par onglian othanay ko bhi ghalat kahain gay, kionkay jab aik bunyad (base) hi sabit (proved) nahi hay to oski bunyaad par khari imaraat (building) hi jhoti hay. Aur aysay logon ka maqsad sirf dosron ko dara dhamka kar, zor zabardasti, apni monoply banana, hat dharmi say apni baat manwana, aur apnay INTERSTS ko save karna hi hay. Warna phir aysay logon ka maqsad jo aik garay murday (long burried person) ko dobarah zindah karrahay hain, onka maqsaad sirf aaam musalmano ko darana hi hay kay jo bhi onkay khilaaf bolay ga wo usko aysi ibrat ki misaal bana dain gay. Agar inka yah maqsad nahi hay tu yah kisi kaam ko karnay ka aik thik aur jayaz tariqa-e-kaar kion ikhtiar nahi kartay? Kia iss tarha yah log aaam logon ko ya tu mushta-il karrahay hain ya phir harasaan nahi karrahay hain?

Bhai thik tariqay aur ghalat tariqay main baaz auqat sirf itna hi farq (difference) hota hay jitna nikkah aur muttaa main. Kaam aik hi hay, tariqa ghalat.

Mujhay educated logon say sirf yahi kahna hay kay apni affiliation ki waja say ghalat tariqay ko thik tariqay main khalat malat (mix-up) na karain aur na ossay support karain. Warna yahi hoga jo ho raha hay. Anarchy aur mazeed anarchy, intishaar aur mazeed intishaar. Natija, har shaks apna insaaf khud karnay lagay ga. Discourage karain iss approach ko aur har os approach ko jo distruction ki janib jati ho. Doosron kay eeman ko evaluate karna chor dain, ham main say kisi ko aysa koi deeni ya dunyawi haq nahi hay, aur nahi ham main ba-hay-siyat insaan aysi sallahiat hay kay ham dosron kay dilon main jhank sakain. Agar kutch aysay problems hon bhi jaysay Qadyanion ki tarha kay tu ossay settle karna buhat high level Ulema ka kaam hay jo unhain Ijmaa kay saath karna hoga. Warna muslims sirf bat-tay hi rahain gay.

Gen. Hameed Gul bhi Zaid Hamid ki tarha impractical batain hi kartay hain. Ya tu yah dono hazraat khud baywaqoof hain (jo yaqeenan ghalat hay), ya phir intihai chalaak jo aam Pakistanis ko apnay interests kayliay oksaatay aur mushta-il kartay hain. Yah Pakistanis kay India ya USA kay baray main sentiments ko exploit kartay hain. Aakhir Gen. Hameed Gul jitnay shad-o-mad say India's hand in Swat ki baat kartay hain utni hi taqat (power) say Taliban ki mukhalifat kion nahi kartay? Inhi jaysay elements phir Pakistani taliban jaysi terms laykar aatay hain aur kahtay hain kay Pakistani talibaan Afghan talibaan say seperate hain, jabkay Swat main taliban leader (I am forgetting his name) khud kahta hay kay wo Afghanistan main safe and sound hay. Gen. Hameed Gul ka saara zor sirf iss baat par hay kay riffle aur ammunition kahan say aaraha hay, jabkay ossay kon chalata hay yani taliban, tu onki wo koi burai iss shiddat say nahi kartay jaysi USA ya India ki kartay hain. Wo karain bhi kion, wohi to taliban kay creaters main shamil rahay hain. Ab taliban ko bura kahnay say zad to onpar bhi paray gi, aur anderoon-e-khana taluqat bhi kharab hongay. Ajeeb log hain ham bhi. Khoon aaasham wahshi kutttaay (wild dogs) bhi paltay hain aur chahtay hain kay wo kabhi ham par hamla bhi na karain.

Yahan main Kamran ki baat say bhi ittafaq karonga kay aaapnay un-intentionally Zaid Hamid ko market hi kardya hay yahan bhi. Ab daikhain mayri misal hi lain, main aap sab say koso door rahta hon aur Yousuf Ali ko tu main bilkul bhi nahi jantaa tha iss thread say pahlay. Zaid Hamid ko bhi chand baar TV ya websites par hi daykha tu tha magar mujhay oska naam (name) bilkul bhi maloom nahi tha kionkay ospar kabhi twaja hi nahi di. Magar iss sab kay baad dono kay naam aur kaam say aagahi hoi.

Umeed hay kay agar koi baat buri lagi ho tu ignore karain gay.

Wasalam

Note: Tamam bhaion say guzaarish hay kay aik doosray say unlock hokay aur thori leverage daykar agay barhain aur zati shukriyay ka moqa dain. Umeed hay aap iss zati guzaarish ko qabil-e-tawaja samjhain gay.


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 09:45:08 AM
Message:

Torontoboy Brother,

Now you will see some further links to prove kay "Ulema" have consensus on Yousaf as well Zaid, and that consensus is so-called Ijmah-e-Ummah.

Aap nay sach tu bolaa hai laikan ho sakta hai aap kay baarey main bhi aik post kisi thread par aa jaaey "parrots" ke taraf say. Aap ko waqat say pehlay zehni taur par tayyaar karney kay liye kuch rattay rattaaaey expected paragraphs:-

........................

When all authorities are vested with "Ulema", then supreme court or Federal Shariat Court does not make any sense. Why you are not aware of Ulema' authorities, vision and role?? Are you a true muslim? Or a Muslim first of all? Aap Yousaf ke aur Zaid ke tarafdaari kar rahey hein? Kiaa aap eeman ke sahi haalat main hain?? Kiaa aap unkay follower nahi?? Kiaa aap jannat main jana chaahtay hain jo yaqeenan aap jaisay haqeer maghrab zada logon kay liye aasaan nahi?? Tu phir aap woh karein jo ham kehtay hain. Apnaa eemaan explain karein sab say pehlay. Aap supreme court ko Ulema par fauqiyat kaisay dey saktay hain?? Aap tu maghrab zada lagtay hain, moderate/secular minded.

Abhi aap say "explanation maangi jaa rahi hai" aap kay eeman ka faisla nahi kia ja raha. Ab iss dauran koi parwana aap ko qatal kar dey tu Subhanallah.

Do you know "ulema" have the authority to call for explanation? Aap forann say pehlay Ulema kay qadmon main gir jaaein aur apnay kiye ke muaafi talab karein. Allah ka kia farman hai baad mein dekha jaaey ga laikan Ulema pehlay khud he nimat lain gey aap say. Aur aap ka wohi haal karein gey jo aap jaisay pehlon kaa kiaa hai.

Agar judges, commissioners aur police etc explanation maang saktay hain tu "Ulema" kyun nahi?? Bhaai khud socho?? Woh bhi aisay mulak main jahaan Govt khud sahi islaami na ho.

Lehaza aap girgara kar Ulema say muaafi aur bakhshish talab karein.

Iss post ka maqsad logon ko aap kee eemani haalat aur "fitna angaiz" baaton kay baarey main alert karnaa hai aur kuch nahi. Yeh koi Fatwa nahi. Bey shak ham nay saabit kar diya hai keh aap Yousaf Kazzab kay follower hain laikan phir bhi ham aap ko kaafir nahi kehtay. Bass logon ko alert kiaa hai ham nay. Aap foran explanation provide karein har Ulema ko.

Ab 3-4 pages ke behas kay baad (aur invariablly buhat say logon say jootay khaanay kay baad) ham keh dein gey keh iss post ka maqsad poora ho gaya aur aap maazi ka hissa ban gaey.

.......................


Allah muaaf rakhay "parrots" say. Yahaan kisi kaa eeman mehfooz nahi.


Regards,


Reply author: shani420
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 10:01:02 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kamranACA

Torontoboy Brother,

Now you will see some further links to prove kay "Ulema" have consensus on Yousaf as well Zaid, and that consensus is so-called Ijmah-e-Ummah.

Aap nay sach tu bolaa hai laikan ho sakta hai aap kay baarey main bhi aik post kisi thread par aa jaaey "parrots" ke taraf say. Aap ko waqat say pehlay zehni taur par tayyaar karney kay liye kuch rattay rattaaaey expected paragraphs:-

........................

When all authorities are vested with "Ulema", then supreme court or Federal Shariat Court does not make any sense. Why you are not aware of Ulema' authorities, vision and role?? Are you a true muslim? Or a Muslim first of all? Aap Yousaf ke aur Zaid ke tarafdaari kar rahey hein? Kiaa aap eeman ke sahi haalat main hain?? Kiaa aap unkay follower nahi?? Kiaa aap jannat main jana chaahtay hain jo yaqeenan aap jaisay haqeer maghrab zada logon kay liye aasaan nahi?? Tu phir aap woh karein jo ham kehtay hain. Apnaa eemaan explain karein sab say pehlay. Aap supreme court ko Ulema par fauqiyat kaisay dey saktay hain?? Aap tu maghrab zada lagtay hain, moderate/secular minded.

Abhi aap say "explanation maangi jaa rahi hai" aap kay eeman ka faisla nahi kia ja raha. Ab iss dauran koi parwana aap ko qatal kar dey tu Subhanallah.

Do you know "ulema" have the authority to call for explanation? Aap forann say pehlay Ulema kay qadmon main gir jaaein aur apnay kiye ke muaafi talab karein. Allah ka kia farman hai baad mein dekha jaaey ga laikan Ulema pehlay khud he nimat lain gey aap say. Aur aap ka wohi haal karein gey jo aap jaisay pehlon kaa kiaa hai.

Agar judges, commissioners aur police etc explanation maang saktay hain tu "Ulema" kyun nahi?? Bhaai khud socho?? Woh bhi aisay mulak main jahaan Govt khud sahi islaami na ho.

Lehaza aap girgara kar Ulema say muaafi aur bakhshish talab karein.

Iss post ka maqsad logon ko aap kee eemani haalat aur "fitna angaiz" baaton kay baarey main alert karnaa hai aur kuch nahi. Yeh koi Fatwa nahi. Bey shak ham nay saabit kar diya hai keh aap Yousaf Kazzab kay follower hain laikan phir bhi ham aap ko kaafir nahi kehtay. Bass logon ko alert kiaa hai ham nay. Aap foran explanation provide karein har Ulema ko.

Ab 3-4 pages ke behas kay baad (aur invariablly buhat say logon say jootay khaanay kay baad) ham keh dein gey keh iss post ka maqsad poora ho gaya aur aap maazi ka hissa ban gaey.

.......................


Allah muaaf rakhay "parrots" say. Yahaan kisi kaa eeman mehfooz nahi.


Regards,




Funny and amusing.
U sound a bit like Shaikh Rasheed here.Mustaqbil ka naqsha hi khench dia!


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 10:03:26 AM
Message:

Torontoboy

Jahaan tak aap ke appeal (given in a note) ka ta-aluq hai, woh sab kay liye qaabil-e-qadar hai.

Mainay tu pehlay bhi likha hai keh "yeh saahib" khud ko theek kar lein aur aainda "acha bacha" honay ka wada karein tu sab theek ho jaaey ga. At least tab tak jab tak yeh "acha bacha" bana rahey. However, issko yeh baat raas nahi aai.

Ab aap jaantay hain main tu hoon he wailaa aadmi, tu khud he bataaiye kia nateeja niklay ga??

Yeh kehta hai keh meri posts dekh kar meray professionalism aur educational background ke samajh aati hai. Issko shaayed yeh maloom nahi keh mental hospital kay doctor professional honay kay baawajood paaglon kay doctor bhi hotay hain. So, unko aisa karna he parta hai.

Aur yahaan issi thread par yeh khud ko khud he "paagal" aur apni baat ko "paagal aadmi ke bakwas" keh he chuka hai. Mind it, these are not my words.

Anyway, acha bacha ban jaaey tu koi issue he nahi.


Regards,


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 10:09:06 AM
Message:

Dear Toronto Boy,

Main keh chuka hun k ap k liay mere dil main bohat izzat ha. Apko mazrat kerne kee koyee zaroorat nhn ha.

Yousuf Kazzab pe tamam firqon ka ittifaq tha k wo Kazzab tha aur main ne ek list tamam Makatibe Fikar k Ulema kee aj se bohat phele paste kee thee jin main sub ulemah ke names shamil thay yani Deobandi,Brelvi,Shia,Ahle Hadees aur do deeni Jamatain Jamaat Islamee aur Tanzeeme Islami K logon k names bhee thay. Deobandi aur brelvi ulemah k moqif kee videos ke link bhee main ne yahan diay thay yani Maulana Abdur Rehman Asharfi aur Mufti Ghulam Sarwar Qadri. Anyhow main is masle pe mazeed kuch kehna nhn chata.

Jhan tak rate barhane kee baat ha aur Zaid Hamid ko market kerne kee baat ha to ager hum uska mazi qoum k samne nhn late to ho sakta tha k bohat se log us k jal main phns jate jis trah Mirz Ghulam Ahmed k aqaid ka bohat sare logon ko aj se 100 sal phele pata nhn tha jis ke wajah se lakhon log dolate emani se hath dho bhete. Punjab main log ziada mirza se is liay mutasir hue ke wo log Mirza k aqaid se na waqif thay. Anyhow is masle per bhee main apki ray ka ehtram kerta hun

Jhan tak Ikhtilafe Ummat kee baat ha is ka andaza mujh ko abhee Yousuf Ali aur Zaid Hamid ke issue pe huwa (is thread pe nhn balke apni personal life main). is k ilawa hamare ikhtilafat ko munkireen e hadees aur Qadiani hamesha cash kerwane kee koshish kerte rehtay hain. Jhan tak musalmanon ke firqon main ittahad kee bat ha yeh waqt kee zaroorat ha.

Jhan tak apke request ka taluq ha jo apne aakhir main kee ha main isi kee wajah se koyee jawabi post nhn likh raha.

Regards,

Awais Aftab


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 11:08:48 AM
Message:

Waysay iss maslay say qataa nazar, yah Muhammad Amir sahib kahan hain. Shuru main onki aik aadh post aai thi, magar oskay baad wo nazar nahi aay. Main iss thread kay start main onki janib say kafi posts expect karraha tha.

Baharhaal wo jahan hon, kush rahain. Aur agar yah post parhain tu apni khairyat say mutalaa farmain.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 11:29:04 AM
Message:

Thanks Brother


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 11:30:54 AM
Message:

Kamran

Thanks for alerting me. I appreciate it.

Regards


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 11:35:57 AM
Message:

Awais

Thanks to you too, to end this thread.

Regards


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 1:05:56 PM
Message:

Torontoboy

Yeh faqeer tu hai he logon ke khidmat kay liye, so jo sahi laga aap kay gosh guzaar kar diya.

Iss thread ka sirf aik he faaida hua. Yeh faqeer aur Torontoboy bhi kisi baat par aik point par nazar aaey.

Anyway. Be careful always as per my alert :)

Regards,


KAMRAN.


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Apr 03 2010 1:33:04 PM
Message:

Kamran

Kam az kam aik faiday wali baat tu apnay thik ki. Dunyawi muamlaat ki tu khair hay aur wo waysay bhi short term hotay hain, iss liay differences say koi farq nahi parta. Haan deeni muamlaat par correct stand zyada aham hay aur khas kar hamaray aajkal kay mulki haalaat main yah buhat base faraham kartay hain. Aur jaysa kay aaapnay pahlay kaha kay co-ordination ki zaroorat aaj pahlay say zyada hay.

Wassalam


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Apr 04 2010 12:28:57 AM
Message:

Lagta nahi dil mera iss ujray deyaar main

Kis kee bani hai aalam-e-na-paaeydar main!


Bhayya bari khaamoshi hai..........


Just kidding.


Regards,


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 11:25:47 AM
Message:

Asslam O Alikum,

Zaid Zman almaroof zaid Hamid pay yay Ilzam hay k wo aik aisay shakhs ka sathi hay jis ny Nabowat ka dawa kia ( Yousuf Kazab). Yousuf kay baray main kuch research krnay k baad pta chala k shaid us nay Nabowat k directly tu dawa nahi kia tha but indirectly apnay sathion ko Sahaba RA sy tashbeeh di n Zaid Hamid ko apna Khalifa mutakhib kia. Zaid Hamid ka kehna hay k agr usay yay maloom ho jay k Yousuf nay Nabowat k dawa kia hay tu wo pehla shakhs ho ga jo us pay lanat bhaijay. or wo yaqeen say kehta hay k wo Muhammad SW k akhri Nabi honay pay yaqeen rakhta hay or AP SW k bad Nbowat ka dawa krnay walay her shakhs ko jhota smjta hay.

Yay baat bhi sach hay k Yousuf nay apnay sathion ko Sahaba kaha ya smja or Zaid ka yay claim bhi sach hay ko us Yosuf nay Nabowat ka dawa nai kia bulkay wo aik sufi tha,tu phr msla kahan hay?

Is swal ka jwab hay jo yahan moojood akser logo ko nagwar guzray ga but suchi bat karwi tu hoti he hay.

Sufism / tareeqat( Mixture of Islam, Hebrew and Greek and Hindu Jogism concepts)
So called tazkia e nafs
Ashka e haqeeqat ki koshishain
Ihsaon o sullok k Silslay
Khanqahi Nizam
Allom e Maarifat
Ahwal e Kashf
Ana Al Haq k naaray
Wahdat ul Wajood ki karastanian
Ilhamat ka daway
Wajad n haal k tazkray
Raqs o Sama ki mehfilain
or ab Allah Ho Allah ho k tazkray.

Inna Lilah e wa Inna Ilayhay Rajeeon

Jb tak yay jhotay nizam Islam k nam per moojod rahain gay, Qadyan bhi ain gay Yousuf bhi ain gay or Zaid bhi, Qalandaron k mizaroon ka Haj bhi hoga, or log Jannati darwaz par kr k janat main janay ki koshish bhi krain gay. In tamam fitnoo ki Jar shuroo he Sufism sy hoti hay jo Nabowat ko haqeeqat main tu Khatam mantay hain laikin kbhi kisi Imamat k concept k through jari kr daitay hain Imam k name pay or kbhi kis Shaikh k name pay riwaj day daitay hain Maarifat n Siddiqiat k name pay.

Agr kisi ko ummat k ittehad waqai he pyara hay tu wo sirf usi baat pay ho skta hay jo sb k liay qabil e qubool hay . Qal Allah wa Qal Rasool Allah wa Sunnat Rasool Allah SW.

Allah mujy or sb Muslmano ko Allah k ihkamat or Muhammad SW k Irshadat per amal krnay ki taufeeq dain, or hr jhotay nizam sy mehfooz rakhain. Ameen.


Reply author: WARDAH
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 3:12:50 PM
Message:

mainy shuru sy topic ni prha ciapk but tumhari post ko prhny k liey thread khola.hope so k healthy discussion ho further more yahan py ta k mai b cheezon ko behter jaan or samjh sakon :) unees bees confussions k sath my mind is agree with ur post.


Reply author: yasir_live
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 3:33:36 PM
Message:


:)

Main kami bhai ki posts perhnay ataa raha hun iss thread main, As there are many of his posts in this threads. But I think abhi tak yeh thread kisi conclusion per nahi phonchi.

Regards.


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 4:56:55 PM
Message:

Or kbhi pohanch bhi nahi skti :-)

as Imam Shafi RA said jis nay kisi Sufiana zindagi fajar k wqt ikhtyar ki wo zohar tak apni aqal kho day gay or jo 40 din Sufi ki sohbat main reh gia uski aqal kbhi wapis nahi aa skti. n imam Ahmed bin Hanbal RA said : haris sufi k shar say bacho kiun k wo moseebat ki jar hay( Alfikr o sufi fee zoo al kitab wa sunnah, page 684)


Reply author: yasir_live
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 5:09:30 PM
Message:


Tu dear Phir hum Sufiana kalam kyun promote kartay han ??? Even iss forum per bhi iss say related kuch threads hain. Tum nay jo baat ooper wali post main likhi yeh kya kisi Authentic Reference say mili hay tumhain.

Regards.


Reply author: WARDAH
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 5:18:45 PM
Message:

yasir.....hd hai dear wo reference k sath hi bol raha hai ghor sy prho or tum phir......

ciapk.....reference jo tumny dia hai us py ikhtilaaf to ni kr skti mai.but janay tum kis kisam k sufia k liey keh rahay ho wrna islaam to in buzurgon ny b phailaya hai or Allah ny inko kiramaat b di thin.han but jaisay log tazeem krty hain wo triqa mujhy b theek nahin lgta ja k fateha khuani ki hd tk to thek hai but jo sjdy krny lg jatay hain or wastay dainay lgtay hain wo triqa logon ka mujhy b theek ni lgta........moreover jo malang hotay aisi kahanian to tumny b bohat prhi hongi jinko shayad mujzib b kehtay hain if i m not wrong exact word zehan mai ni arha.to hum ny bohat dfa daikha hai k raah chlty mai naa jaan na pehchaan apko wo kbhi koi aisi baat keh daitay hain jo waqai ho jati hai hum tb uski gehrai mai nahin pohnch patay then what was that?? plz thora us py b roshni daalna k waisay log un k drjaat ka kia mamla hai.

Regards,


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 5:39:37 PM
Message:

Dear Yasir,

Page reference dia hay brother, hum acha acha sufiana kalam likh daitay hain sath agr koi shirkia aqaid bhi aa jain tu kaha jata hay k ap Aishq e Haqeeqi or Aishq e Majazi k matlab nahi smj sktay. Mollana Jalal Ud Din Rumi k Sufiana kalam ka aik tukra paish krnay ko buhat dil chahta hay but Wardah or Deegar females ki mojodgi ki wja sy nahin kron ga. Further, Spirtula dance jo Rumi sahib ny introduce kraya hay ap nay akser daikha hoga sb loog aik dairay main ghom rahay hotay hain uski aik shkal sub continent main Dhmal ki shakal main moojod hay, wo link paste kr daita hun Khwateen say request k sath ko wo try na krain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMWRwtqwbGA&feature=related

@ Wardah

Hindu Jogism k baray main prha hay kabhi? un k pass b buhat say kamalat aa jatay hain wo bhi buhat krtab kr jatay hain unko karamat kahan jay ga? Anyhow Dajjal aay ga wo aik isharay say barish bhi brsay ga badal bhi ain gay phal bhi ugain gay tu kia us pay emaan lay ain gay ham sb?



Reply author: Ali RAZA
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 5:46:04 PM
Message:

I agree with the above post of ciapk.


Reply author: yasir_live
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 5:54:27 PM
Message:


Ciapk.

Dear abhi tu office main youtube block hay lakin raat ko ghar main check karunga yeh link. Yaar kya dance karna sahi hay chahay woh kisi roomi-shoomi nay hi kyuna introduce karvaya ho ??? Aur in malango ki asliat tu Sewan-Shareef main nazar ati hay Jahan inhon nay Charas k dhuain say aasmaan bhara hota hay.

Tu meray dost Ciapk, main nay yeh sab yahan saudi main tu nahi dekha itna ziada, I mean log Allah k batai hui taleem ko accept kartay hain bajai in Roomi-shoomi jesay maulanao k chakeron main perna. be-shak Mukammal tu hay sab kuch Jo Quran or Ahadees k zariyay hum tak phoncha.

*Koi ghalat baat agar main nay likhi hay tu intentionally nahi likhi.....So just correct me if I am wrong *

Regards.


Reply author: Anamz1
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 6:06:37 PM
Message:

@ Ciapk:

Your explanation has created a lot of confusions in my mind. Will you please explain and differentiate Auliya, Bazurgan e Deen, and Sufiyaah within the context of Islam. (Jin mai sy aksar bohat buland darjaat rakhny waloon ko tou bohat izzaht o tafheem bhe di gai hai Islam mai, according to our knowledge and our ancestor's knowledge) Please explain each category and its differences separately. Thanks.


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 01 2010 7:19:56 PM
Message:

Dear Yasir:

Main nahi kehta k Saudia main 100% Asal Islam hay laikin Allah ka khas karam hay k ajkal pori dunya main sb say ziada sahih shakal main Islam sirf Saudia he main moojod hay (Talking about Ulema of Saudia, not talking about Ayashi of Saudia Princes) baqi sub continent k logo k Saudia walay sahi Islam k baray main jannay k liay bhi ap youtube search kr lain buhat say so called Ulema k nazdeek tu Imam e Kaba k peechay nmaz he jaiz nai hay (Naooz BILLAH)isi liay k wo Auliya ko Auliya na mantay etc.

Dear Annumz.

Ayliya ka matlab hay Allah k dost, or koi bhi shakhs jis k baray main kaha jay wo buhat wali Allah hy yay daikha jay ga k us Wali k Toheed O Raslat k baray main kia aqaid hain or wo Allah k hukam or Muhammad SW ki sunnat pay kitna amal krtay hain. Agr kisi shaks ka koi bhi amal Allah or Allah k Rasool SW k hukam sy hat k hay tu wo Allah ka wali kaisay ho skta hay? wo shetan hay or apni jadogari sy Muslmano ko dhoka daita hay or sahih deen jo Allah or Allah k Nabi SW ny btaya or amal kr k dikha dia us say behka k apnay nizam ki taraf dawat daita hay jo jhot hay batil hay.

Ab meri is Ayliya ki defination main aik aik wali ko rakh k daikh lo jo fit ay wo wali jo na aay wo shetan. In the context of Zaid Hamid that he treats Yousuf as Sufi tu Sufiism k ander buhat say aqaid hain jo mushrikana hain but unko sugar quoted alfaz k sath paish kia jata hay bt ander main zehar hota hay. Ager Mirza Qadyani nay Nabowat ka dawa kia tu wo bhi isi sufisim k ander n agr yousuf nay bhi ager kia tha tu wo bhi sufism k ander moojod concepts k saharay. I will send you details.


Reply author: WARDAH
Replied on: Nov 02 2010 12:00:13 AM
Message:

mujhko b send krna ciapk i m despirately waiting......as anum ny jo pocha wo mairay mind mai b tha to mujhko b btana plz.or tmaam bhai log us link ka luby lubaab to byan krdo k hai kia atleast jo us mai kaam ki baat smjhani chahi hai ciapk ny wo to byan kro after watching as hum py to pabndi lgi hai :(


Reply author: yasir_live
Replied on: Nov 02 2010 02:10:59 AM
Message:


Wardah.

I wonder y Ciapk had share this link :) Anyways.......lub-e-lubab yeh hay k iss vedio main ek johnny liver ki shakal ka bunda kuch kawali type gaa raha hota hay........Aur uss k aas pass bhi Elay-melaay log bethay hotay hain hehehehe Aur ek hajoom hay logon ka jo bhangraay dal rahay hotay hain..........Itnay main ek chacha jin say hila-jula nahi jaa raha un ko godon main laya jata hay........khair woh bethay hotay hain k achanak say un k ander ki Tawaaif zinda ho jati hay Aur woh bhi bhangraa dalna shruu ho jatay hain yeh bhool kar k thori dair pehlay tak unsay chala bhi nahi jaa raha tha......hehehehehe Buss Dear yahin tak dakhi 3 min ki baki 4 min ki main nay nahi dakhi.........

Ciapk.

Dear I am sure, there must be any message for which u refer this link. kya message tha ???

Regards.


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 02 2010 09:37:52 AM
Message:

Dear Yasir, message is, k wo baba ji Noori Sarkar kehlatay hain jo Shahbaz Qalndar k mzar pay pay jatay hain or Dhmal ki shan main jo kuch wo byan frmatay hay wo Sufism main spiritual dance ( Rumi wala) ki jadeed shakal hay wo Sufism jis nay Islam ko buhat phailaya hay. Mujy yaqeen nahi hay k ap nay end tak na daikhi ho.:-)wo jo chacha hay wo bad main bhi khud nahi hil rahay bhai un ko hilaya ja raha hay, phr sy ghoor kro :-)


Reply author: yasir_live
Replied on: Nov 02 2010 10:58:55 AM
Message:


Abb phir say dakhun main ???? Bhai main dobara office main betha hun.......Aur un chacha main wesay bhi esa kya hay jo main dekhon :) Main nay wakai akhir tak nahi dakhi. Yaar mera in cheezon per yakeen nahi hay shayad isliay main dilchuspi nahi leta Dance-bhangray daal kar islaam pehlana.....pata nahi sahi hay ya nahi......

You know Zakir naik, woh sirf Quran ki ayaat sunatay hain Aur Ahadees Reference k saath. Aur Quran Aur Hadees ki khoobsurat or sachi baatain sun kar kai logon nay islam kabool kar lia.

Anyways tum kyun dakh rahay thay you-tube per yeh cheezain hehehehe.........Is ka matlab hay k tum dekhtay ho esi cheezain :)

Regards.


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 02 2010 12:33:26 PM
Message:

Hahahahaahah, Dear main aisi cheezain is liay daikhta hun or dikhata hun takay chehray pay shrafat k naqab dalay hoay Lambi Lambi darhee or rang brangay cholon main jhotay loog Moojood hain un ko expose kia ja skay or Awam ko saboot k sath btaya jay k wo kis Islam py chal rahay hain or is Islam pay chlnay wala kahan jata hay.

Bayshak, Islam do he cheezon ka name hay Allah ka hukam or Muhammad SW ka tareeqa jo hmain Sahihi Ahadis e Mubarika say milta hay, or agr in do cheezon say koi baat nahi milay tu Sahaba Kiram RA k Asaar.Is k illawa agr koi bat hay tu wo jhot hay, kisi bhi sorat main Islam nahi hay.

Infact, mera wo link post krnay ka maqsad yay hay k Islamic Spiritualistics k nazdeek jab wo Wajad ya Haal main hotay hain (jaisa k ap nay daikha) tu wo Majzoob ho jatay hain or is halat main kuch bhi keh daitay hain. Main sb ko wajad or haal ka haal dikha raha tha.

Fraoon nay kaha main khuda hun tu wo Allah ka dushman krar dia gia, Mansoor Hallaj nay kaha main he khuda hun tu usay kaha gia majzoobiat ki halat main or Ishq e Illahi main doooob kr bola hay lehaza wo Sardar or Ayliya ho gia.(us waqt k Ulema nay usay qatal ka fatwa dia or usay qatal kia gia) Bayzeed Bastami na bola Khudai ka wo bhi Majzzob ho ka Ayliya Allah ho gay, wahdat Ul wajood ki term ijaad ki gain k hr cheez khuda hay or khuda hr cheez hay ( Insan Hewan Jin Naooz Billah sb khuda hay or Khuda in sb main hai) Philosphana batain ghuma phira k alfaz ka radoo bdal kr k Allah ki wahdaniat ka inkar kia gia or Hindu ki tarah hr cheez k khuda honay ka dawa kia gia or abhi bhi kia jata hay. Laikin us pay koi nahin bolta jo jar hay jhotay Nabion ki paidaish ki. Halool ka aqeeda jis k mutabiq Shaikh itni bulandi pr pohanch jatay hain k Allah un k ander aa jata hay (NaoozBillah). Or kiun koi bolay ga? is hmam main sb nangay jo hain. buhat bray bray ulema k name aatay hain k unki books bhri hoi hain in aqaid say.

So, main nay yehe kaha hay deen kisi phalsphor ki chwloon ka name nai hay. Buhat seedha sadha name hay Allah k ahkam Allah k Nabi SW k btay hoay tareeqon py amal krnay ka. But, unfortunately, bri bri khankahoo k name atay hain bray bray Shaikh ul hadees expose hotay hay is liay is jr k baray main koi nahin bol raha tha jis ki waja say loog majzoob ho k kbhi khuda bn jatay hain or kbhi Rasool Naoozbillah.

NazoBillah mera question yay tha k Yousuf ka kia qusoor hay agr us nay majzoobiat main apnay sathion ko sahaba keh dia? Apko maloom hay k Khudai ka dawa krnay walon ki shan main yahan books likhi jati hain? Miraz Qadyan ka kia qusoor hay? Goher shahi ko agr apni tasweer chand main nzar aati hay tu uska kia qusoor hay ? yay sb tu sachay sufi hain Naooz Billah, Aur Khudai ka dawa krnay walay Shaheed e Sufia ( Allah ki Lanat aisay ishq e Illahi per or aisay qurb e Illahe per jo Khaliq or Makhlooq ka frq he mita day)

Ap nay shaid Fana Fillah, Baqa Billah, Haqeqat, or Tareeqat ki philosphy nahi prhi, yay sari terms or in k conceptes apko hindu yogism, vedanta, meditation, spirtuality ki sorat main apko hinduism, Christan, bud ism, Jewish, sb main nzar aa jay gi, do search on google n compare the concepts side by side, concepts same hungay but name change hungay, Ham Arabi main boltay hain wo apni apni zubano main or un logo ki bhi buhat kramat hoti hain you can check powers of hindu spirtulism on google.

Aam loog in sb kufr or shirk ki philoshion sy waqif nahin hain wo sirf kramat daikh k emaan lay atay hain. Allah hm sab ko Allah or Allah k Nabi SW k diay gay Islam pay zinda rakhay or mout day (Ameen)

Finally, I do believe k Spiritualistic powers mojood hain, laikin Islam say iska koi taluq nahi hay. For Example: Agar kisi ko hath daikhna aata hay usnay palmistry prhe hy or seekhi hay, ya kisi ko face reading aati hay or us nay prhi ya seekhi hay or experience bhi kia hay or wo face daikh k sb kuch bta daita hy, ya samnay wala kia soch raha hy jan laita hay, ya usay hypnotism aati hay wo zehno ko apnay tabay kr laita hay tu uska hr giz yay mtlab nahin hay ko Allah ka Wali hay. Same knowledges, spirituality koi bhi hindu, sikh yahoodi, muslim agr seekhay smjay tu tu us k pass buhat si supernatural powers aa jati hain layikin in powers ka religion say koi taluq nai hay. Yahan loog Allah ho ki zrbain lga k power hasil krtay hain n Hindustan main AUM ka mantra prh k. That's Separate science apart of religion and i think it as a Magic.


Reply author: WARDAH
Replied on: Nov 02 2010 2:55:27 PM
Message:

@ciapk....dimagh ki bti jla di tumny dear :) prh k kafi kuch chlny lg pra hai dimagh mai.n thnks tum bohat achy triqy sy clear krtay ho is py tumhari jitni b tareef ki jae km hai.but mai sath mai yaqeenan or members ki rae janna chahon gi jin mai toronto n kami bhai sar-e-fehrist hain.k baray or smjhdar log discussion mai hisa lain gy to mujhjaisi naqs-ul-aql k ply b kuch prhy ga but plz jo b bolay urdu mai bolay aisa ni hai k mujhko smjh ni ae ga but kuch pt phir b oper sy guzer jatay hain......khair ciapk to strightfarwadly tuhara kehna hai k in peer,sufi,auliya etc k chkron mai prhna hi ni chahye?i mean ye jitny b jin k darbaar/mazaar hain (including all)?


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 02 2010 3:23:35 PM
Message:

Dear Wardah:

Mera yay hergiz matlab nahi hay k Allah k wali nahin hotay, bayshak dunya main buhat say Allah k Wali hain. Aylia ki pehchan main nay btai hay k wo apni Ibadat main, apni zindagi k hr hr kam main choti si choti or bri sy bri bat main authentic Sunnat tareeqa he follow kray ga wo kbhi bhi iskay khilaf amal nahin kray ga. agr koi shakhs in conditions ko meet krta hay tu zror us ki sohbat ikhtyar krain or un say Duaa krain. Baqi qbrstan main jaanay or ibrat hasil krnay ki ijazat hay. kionkay qbar mout yad dilati hay. ab yay depend krta hy k kis mzar pay apko mout yad aati hay or kis pay raqs. waisay bhi kisi apnay ki qbar pay jain jo hmaray sath tha or hmain chor gia tab tu shaid yaad aaay wrna kisi or ki qbar ko daikh k hmain kia yaad ana hy jo ham sb ka haal hay.


Reply author: WARDAH
Replied on: Nov 02 2010 3:40:51 PM
Message:

ok ok got u.thanks dear.


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Nov 02 2010 8:38:32 PM
Message:

Bhaio

On overall basis I agree with ciapk opinion about evaluating one's actions (amal) in the light of teachings of Islam given by Quran, Sunnah, and Ijma etc. and to follow him.

Magar ham sab main aik kharabi hay kay ham aik objective discussion say hat jatay hain. Jo sawal hay pahlay oska jwab nikalna chayay, phir kisi aur mozoo par guftugoo. Warna yahi hoga kay swal gundum aur jawab chana.

Iss thread par bunyadi swal 2 aay thay. Pahla yah kay Zaid Hamid par bila waja ilzaam tarashi ki gai jabkay osnay saaf alfaz main apna eeman zahir kia tha. Iss pahlay swal ka jawab dhondtay hoay Yosuf ka zikar aya aur ossay jhoti nabuwat ka dawaydaar sabit kartay hoay yah kaha gya kay chunkay Zaid Hamid ki nisbat Yousuf say thi iss liay Zaid bhi jhota hay. Issi tarha Yosuf kay qatal ki mazzamat bhi nahi ki gai. Yousuf ka jhoti nabuwat ka dawa aur phir qatal 2nd swal hay.

New readers kay liay main apna point of view doobara duhra dun yahan. Mayray khyal main jab kisis sakhs nay khulay alfaz main Huzoor-e-Akram (SAW) kay katim un nabeen honay ka iqrar karlia hay (yani Zaid nay) tu oskay eeman kay baray main phir shak karna ham insaanon ka kaam nahi hay kionkay har insaan kay eeman kay baray main Allah ko hi maloom hay, insaanon ko nahi. Doosri baat yah kay Yosuf ka jo bhi moaamla tha, ossay thik tareeqay say nahi settle kia gya, aur kutch molvion kay fatwon ki bunyaad par ossay marwa-e-adalat qatal karna thik nahi tha. Pahlay tamam zaroori requirements ko mulki qawaneen kay mutabiq poora karna chayay tha, aur oskay baad adalat jo bhi munasib samjhti fayslaa karti. Adalat ka fayslaa sab ko qabool hota. Ab jiss nay bhi osko tamam taqazay pooray honay say pahlay qatal kia osko "aashiq-e-rassol" nahi balkay "qatil" kahlana chayay.

Yahan hamaray Ulema ka kirdaar kafi kamzoor hay. Kutch nay Yousuf kay qatal ka fatwa dya. Muqadmay ki samaat kay doran logon ko ishtiaal main aanay say mana nahi kia. Aur ab bhi insaaf kay taqazay pooray honay say pahlay, muqadmay kay dooraan Yosuf ko qatal karnay walay ko qatil kahna chayay, iski tashih bhi Ulema nahi kartay.

Sach ko hamaisha saaf aur mukamal hona chayay. Aadha sach jhot hi hota hay.

Agar chand molvion kay fatwon say har sakhs ko doosron ko qatal karnay ka jawaz milnay lag gya tu wohi hoga jo aaj ho raha hay, phir Zaliman (taliban) bhi thik karrahay hain aur Talal Bugti bhi Islam ki khidmat karay ga Musharraf ko qatal karwa kar. Phir muslim societies ko anarchy say koi nahi bacha sakta.

Yah tha iss thread ka discussion.

Sufism aur doosray "ism" aik alag bahas hay, jisko alag say kia jana chayay.

Waysay sahabi aur khalifa Arabi kay alfaz hain jinkay mani saathi ya companion (for sahabi) aur naib ya subordinate (for khalifa) kay hain. Agar Mr. A kisi Mr. B ko english main apna companion ya subordinate kahay tu hamain qubool hoga, magar agar yahi alfaaz Mr. A kisi Mr. B ko Arabi main sahabi aur khalifa kah day tu yah kia nabuwat ka dawa ho jay ga kia (Naoozu Billah)? Magar itni si baat kisi kabutar ki aqal rakhnay walay so-called molvi ko samjh nahi aasakti.

Yahan tu har sakhs ko doosray kay eeman ki fikar hay. Doosron ko qatal kay fatway daynay aur onpar amal ka ikhtiyar hay. Phir ham muslim hain jinkay haath zaban aur amal say doosron ko mamoon hay.

Wasalam


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 10:08:41 AM
Message:

Dear Bro,

I am totally agreed with you. Laikin meray khyal main Sufism ka swal isi topic say he related ho or isi main he discuss hona chahyay. Coz yousuf ko ager Ulema board main lay jaya jata ya fedral shariat court main janay ka mooqa dia jata tu saray so called ulema khud bhi expose ho jatay apnay buzurgo ki sfaian dainay main lehaza yousuf ko qatal krwa dia gia. Main yahan is thread main isi liay likhna chah raha hun k is main jhoti nabowat discuss hoi hay laikin jhoti nabowat ki jr discuss nai hoi us k asbab discuss nai hoay or chupay hoay kirdar discuss nahin hoay. agr koi Illalah ko 1000 bar left right sir mar k bolay ga tu meter tu uska ghomna he hay tu wo kbhi khuda bn jany ki koshish kray ga kbhi jhota nabi. So, isi liay yahan py discuss kia k yehe ulema jin ki bat is thread main ho rahi hay aik taraf tu Khudai ka dawa krnay waloo ki shan main books likh rahay hain or nabowat k dawidar (pta nai us nay kia bhi ya nai) k qatal ko islam ki khidmat smaj rahay hain. waisay bhi saza dainay ka ikhtyar hakim e waqt k pass hota hay ulema k pass nahin.


Reply author: Toronto_Boy
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 10:25:10 AM
Message:

Bhai

Theek hay yani kay iss thread kay main issues par koi 2 rai nahi hain.

Aap aaj kal jo mazaron par ho raha hay oskay baray main zaroor likhain. Agarcha main zati masroofiat ki waja say kutch zyada contribute shayad nahi karsakonga.

Duago...


Reply author: yasir_live
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 11:23:01 AM
Message:


Haan Ciapk boss jo mazaron per ho raha hay uss per apni roshni dalna.....Main samajta hun mazaron per jaa ker un k zariyay duain nahi karani chaiyay.

U know, Masjid-nabvi k ander main nay kai martaba dekha......kyun k poori dunya say log atay hain....Tu akser kaumo k log........Prophet Mohammad k Roze-mubarak k saath kharay ho ker Duain kartay hain.......Tu wahan jo molvi un jaalion k saath kharay hotay hain Woh unhain mana kartay hain k Duaa mat karo...........Sirf Salaam karo. Aur yeh cheeze mainay her martaba observe ki hay, Main jitni baar bhi wahan gya esaa hi hua hay......Main bhi sirf salaam karta hun.

Tu jani, Jab iss case main allow nahi hay ..........Tu kersay allow ho sakta hay Baki mazaron per ???

Toronto.

Yaar aap Wsalaam likhna bhool gai....juldi main...:)

Regards.


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 12:01:14 PM
Message:

Dear Yasir,

Its very clear for those who want to understand.

Narrated Anas RA: Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab RA, used to ask Al-Abbas RA bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain."(1) And so it would rain.

(Chapter 31 Istasqa, Haids 123, Sahih Bukhari)

Is hadis e mubarik say 2 batain buhat saf ho jati hain,

1. Umar RA Hazrat Abbas RA ki buhat izaat krtay thay or jb koi moseebat aati tu un k pass ja k un say duaa kratay thay or Abbas RA duaa krtay thay or wo qubool ho jati the.( Kuch loog kaha krty hain NaoozBillah Umar RA Aal e Abbas n Hazrat Ali RA sy dushmni rkhtay thay).
2. Umar RA kbhi Muhammad SW ki Qbr e Mubarik pay dua mangnay nai gay k Allah Muhammad SW k waseelay sy barish frma.

So, dear i am very clear that buzurgo k pass jana or un say duaa ki drkhast krna bilcul theek hay or Mazar py ja k waseelay day k dua mangna bilcul ghalat hy k aisa amal kisi authentic reference say hmain Sahaba e Kiram ki zidagi sy nahi milta.

Actually, Muhammad SW ka waseela Muhammad SW ka Mubarik Amal hay agr un ki Sunnat k mutabiq duaa mangain tu actually woh sunnat amal he waseela hay dua ki quboliat ka.


Reply author: WARDAH
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 2:21:12 PM
Message:

thnks for ur contribution toronto :) ......... n ciapk tumhari to kia hi baat hai dear bohat achy treqy sy smjhatay ho or smjh b ajata hai.in sb posts ko prh k or raat jo khichri mairay dimagh mai chl rahi thi to mairay dimagh ki adalat is natijy py pohnchi k in mzaron,drbaron k chkron mai prn hi ni chahye.as jitna mai jaan pai hon awal to ye mzaar bnana jaiz hi ni hai khuba-e-haj-tul-wida mai AP S.A.W ny khud frmaya tha k qbrain pki mt krwana/mzar mt bnana etc (mafhoom kuch yunhi tha) or jo kaam udher ho rahay hain wo tu u-tube py daikh k her ze-shaor bnda smjh skta hai.na dil un baton ko manta na dimagh.....to sidha sidha saaf suthri zindagi guzaro,nmaz roza,panchon fraiz puray kro,dua mangtay huae us k aadab mlhozykhatir rkho,koshish kr k kisi ka dil ni dukhao,naik kaam chotay chotay hi sahi jitna ho sky koshish kro krny ki,lagav zban istimal na karo.hum bs yehi kr lain to humaray liey behter hai.....n moreover for all who read gud books gr kuch b sch or achi baat janay to usko positive way mai dosray ko b btain , healthy discussion k sath.
Regards,


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 2:25:39 PM
Message:

Dear CIAPK

Main tasawuf aur tariqat ke bare main apkee bat se kafi had tak muatfiq hun lekin jhan tak taswuf ya tariqat ka sawal hai to iska qatayee inkar na mumkin hai. Apne Imam Shafi aur Imam Hanbal ke aqwal quote kiay hain lekin taswuf k imam Hazrat Abdul Qadir Jeelani R.A Imam Hanblle ko follow kerte the aur baz waqt Fiqah Shaifia ke mutabiq bhee fatwa dia kerte the. Shariat pe chalna asan hai lekin tariqat pe chalna do dhari talwar pe chalne k mutradif ha. Beherhal hum keh sakte hain k baz sufia se sangeen ghaltian sarzand huyeen jis kee waja se Islam ko nuqsan phoncha. But sub continent k aese ulemah jin se taqriban sare main sects aqeedat rakhte hain maslan Majadid Alfe Sani aur Shah Waliullah Muahadis Dehlvi kisi had tak taswuf se taluq rakhte the. Apne Maulana Roomi ka zikar kia aur unki kitab ka bhee is doran eik inthayee qabile aitraz mozu bhee zaire behas ane laga tha lekin apne usko avoid ker ke acha kia

Allam Ibne Jozee (R.A) kee ek kitab hai Talbees-E-Iblees bohat mashoor kitab hai kisi bhee library se asani se mil saktee hai. Is kitab main unhon ne ek bab bandha hai "Sufia Pe Talbees Iblees" is kitab ka ya kamaz kam us bab ka mutal zaroor kijiay ga. Jab app Imam Jozee R.A kee kitab Talbees-E-Iblees ke bab "Sufia Pe Talbees-eIblees" ka matuala karainge to ap khayal karaing ke Imam sahab taswuf ke bilkul khilaf hain but Imam Jozee kee 2 books aur hain
1. "Al Mudhish" and 2 "Beharad Damu (Aansoonon ka Samandar)" Jab ap in ka matala kariange to apko lagay ga ke Imam Jozee khud tasawuf k aalim hain

Bhai kehne ka maqsad yeh hai k hum ko tariqat aur tasawuf k bare main balanced approach apnani chayee.
Dosree baat jo log shariat per amal nhn kerte ek waqt kee namaz nhn parhte wo bhala taswuf ko kia jane. Teesree bat hum Shariat k mutakalif hain hum se taswuf k bare main sawal nhn hoga. Ek aur baat k taswuf whan se shuru hota hai jab banda sharyiat kee mairaj pe phonch jay . Wo jahil log jo gusul aur wuzu k faraiz se tak waqif nhn ek waqt kee namaz nhn parhte un jahil logon ka tariqat se koyee taluq nhn ha.

Regards,

Awais Aftab


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 2:29:34 PM
Message:

Dear All I have stated my view point in above post but in future it will be too difficult for me , due to some commitments, to write anything or further elaborate my view point .


Reply author: yasir_live
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 3:29:47 PM
Message:


Awais.

Dear fursat milay tu CIA Exemption wali thread per bhi ek nazar farmaa lena.

Regards.


Reply author: awaisaftab
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 4:01:24 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by yasir_live


Awais.

Dear fursat milay tu CIA Exemption wali thread per bhi ek nazar farmaa lena.

Regards.




Dear Yasir

Bro check the thread CIA Exemption main ne tafseeli jawab de dia hai apki query ka


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 03 2010 4:15:07 PM
Message:

Dear Awais,

I really appreciate your reply, aap nay buhat say logo ki tarah behas bray behas nahi ki or Tasawuf k dark areas ko support nahin kia wrna aisay bhi loog main nay daikhay hain jo apnay maslik ki hr ghalat bat ko mehaz is liay support krtay hain k unka maslik ghalat sabit na ho jay us k liay din rat surf kr k logics dhndtay hain or zaeef say zaeef even ghri hoi Ahadees paish krnay main bhi nahin ghbratay. Allah apko iska ajar day, Ameen.

However, main shaid apki baat say ittefaq nahi kr sakoon ga, mujy word tareekat pay he ietrza hay, Tareekat mean Rasta ( kis ka rasta yay Allah he janay) while Sunnat means Rasta Muhammad SW ka. So, name say he zahir ho jata hay k tareekat Muhammad SW k rasta bahar hal nahin hay kionkay wo Rasta Sunnat he kehlata hay.

Tareekat walay is baat k dawa krtay hain jis ki bal brabar shariat main kmi hay uski tareekat shuroo he nahin ho skti. laikin infact aisa hy nahin, Tareekat apni bunyad main Islam sy takrati hay. Shah Wali Ullah RA meray liay buhat qabil e ihtram hain k wo mohadis bhi thay n aalim bhi of tasawaf bhi unka mozo e behas raha laikin un say Ziada ihtram meray liay Muhammad SW ki zaat hay, agr Tareeqat k madarij ki agr koi agr importance hoti tu yay Quran main zror hotay, agr wahan nahin tu km sy km is process ka zikar Muhammad SW zaror krtay. Sirf apnay nafs ko paak krnay k jo tareeqay Tareeqat main hain wo Muhammad SW ki sunnat main hain na Sahaba e Kiram RA k tareeqon main.

Ap agree krtay hain hmain Allah nay Tareekat k liay jwab deh nai bnaya, tu jo cheez kisi insan say pochi he nahi jay ge us k ghair aeham honay main kia shak hay? Us cheez k oper Sufia apni zindagian kiun brbad kr daitay hain? just kuch super natural type powers hasil krnay k liay? Jis cheez ka muslman sy swal he nahi hona offcourse uska swal na tu Allam Jozee RA say hona hay na Ibne Arabi say na Mansor say na Imam Ghazali RA say Na Shah Wali Ullah RA say tu us cheez ko smjhnay ki koshish he kiun ki gai?

Ap nay kaha Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jilani Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal RA k follower thay, for arguments I agree, laikin kia saray hanafi imam abu Hanifa RA ko follow krtay hain? yaqeenun nahin as Imam Abu Hanfia RA k shagirdoon main Imam Abu Yousuf RA or Imam Muhammad RA nay buhat say masil o aqaid main Imam abu Hanifa RA sy ikhtelaf kia. So, may be Shaikh Abdul Qadir RA nay bhi is mamlay main ikhtelaf kia ho.

Okay, Sab mantay hain k Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jilani RA Walion k sardar hain. main b man laita hun but Shaikh sb say pocha gya k kia Hanabla k illawa bhi kisi mslik main wali hoa? ap nay frmaya Na tu hoa hay or na he kbi ho ga. ( book ka refernce on demand). Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jillani apni book Ghuniat Talibeen main Gumrah Firqoon ka name byan krtay hoay likhtay hain mafhoom : Baaz ashab e abu Hanfia, imam jin k Numan bin sabit koofi hain: Kia, aap aik wali ki yay baat tasleem kr lain gay? agr kr lain gay tu Hanafi Olia tu Olia hoay he nahin?

So, y not we should agree upon authentic sayings of one and only one, last and final, imam e aazam and peer e azam, Allah k sb say bri shan walay Nabi, or Habib, Prophet Muhammad SW, instead of quoting Imam jozee RA,Imam jilanai RA, imam ghzali RA, imam Qayam RA, Imam Tamima RA, Shah Wali Ullah n all others sb Aik he Nabi SW k mureed kiun nahin ho jatay?.

Being Aalim yes hmain tmam msalik k ulema ki izaat krni chahyay laikin wo izzat itni na ho k wo apnay ap ko Nabi declare kr dain jaisa k yousuf py alligation hay ( Allah janay sach hay ya nai)

Ap nay kaha k Tasawuf wahan say shuroo hota hay jahan shariat apni meeraj pay pohanch jati hay. Meray bhai shariat ki meeraj ka mtlab hay k aik muslman Quran ki hr baat pay amal krta hay or Allah ka Nabi SW ki Sunnat ko 100% follow krta hay. Jb muslman is meeraj per pohanch gia tu agay baqi kia hay? ap mazeed an us say kia krwana chahtay hain? kia us k jannat main janay main koi shak shuba hay? offcourse mqsad tu sb ka jannat main jana or jannat main Muhammad SW ka qurb pana he he hay. Tu tareekat ki zrorat kia hay?

All are requested to take and think it in positive sense.


Reply author: raza 123
Replied on: Nov 04 2010 5:17:38 PM
Message:

He is a nice person :-) ..


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Nov 09 2010 11:20:59 PM
Message:

Very well put by ciapk I must say, appreciate and accept; although I differ on some aspects which I don't want to write specifically. Yet a few things I wish to say.

I feel that the presumed MUSTs prescribed by Shariah for every muslim are what we call firstly as Faraiz and then secondly as Sunnah (except a few things); while the things which were not MUSTs but done by Prophet PBUH invariably throughout his life as Mustahab or Nafal or noble acts (may be called in any other words) are the things which Auliyas follow in addition to the MUSTs. Normal human cannot follow that in too much detail as these are out of his apprehension, ability and understanding. That’s why these have not been prescribed as MUSTs by Shariah. Yes, Non-Musts can come only when Musts have been perfectly practiced.

Here I have no doubt that Shahriah and Sunnah provide a full framework for perfect social setup and life. Yet, if this was too enough then there arise many questions about non-musts done and practiced.

Praying all the nights, praying Tahajjuds and Nawaafals, Tasbeehs, crying with tears for Ummah, fasting for many months, going to Ghaar-e-Hira so oftenly for worship of Allah and for getting direct guidance (although no body excatly knows) and many more things are there which don't make part of MUSTs or "prescribed" Shariah's elements. No one exactly knows why Prophet PBUH used to go to Ghaar-e-Hira even before the time when Rooh-ul-Qudus brought the message of Allah and before the time Prophet PBUH was sent a WAHI. Was it merely for normal prayer? There are many aspects which we common men don't know and which had been between Allah and his Prophet PBUH.

One further point, praying for Jannah, following prescribed Shariah elements etc are fine being Faraiz or Sunnah but these cannot ensure Jannah for any one though we as humans even cannot doubt on Allah's Rehmat as well. So saying that "would there be any doubt as to Jannah after doing this all" is not appropriate. Here, I don't mean to say that anything over and above the prescribed MUSTs can ensure it. No; it is only as per Allah's will. So this question does not exist at all out-rightly.

On other side praying for the wish of Jannah is not odd as per shariah principles; yet praying with real love of Allah is totally a different thing. You can find millions praying with fear of Allah's Jahanum or with the wish of Allah's Jannah BUT you can rarely (rather very rarely) find someone praying only and only and only due to Love (Ishq) of Allah with no greed of deen or dunya and Jannah or Jahnum. This sounds weird but is a fact. The ones among us who say that their prayers are due to Ishq are liars. I don't hesitate saying this.

A question always strikes my mind the answer of which of course may be known to the people of knowledge and vision. Why Hazrat Awais Qarni R.A. did not come to see the Prophet PBUH and join Muslims for direct guidance from Prophet PBUH and to participate in Jehad-o-Tableegh etc? Was looking-after an aged mother an all inclusive reason? Was this reason greater and important than the cause of Islam? This question strikes me because I don’t forget the mothers who their-self sacrificed their sons for Islam by sending them for Jehad. I remember the sons who did Qataal against their fathers for the cause of Islam. I don’t forget the men of Allah who separated theirselves for life times from their kids and wives saying that Allah is enough to watch their well being in case of their shahadat in Jehad. I don’t forget the Hadees that the Faith is not perfect if the Prophet PBUH’s love is lesser than the love of even parents. So, to me this is not so simple and there must be other quite valid reasons behind this incident. This is a food for thought as well though I request fellows to avoid criticizing it for our own reasons.

I always feel that we lack knowing the secret; which secret, is also a question.

I personally tend to avoid denying the out-right existence of any such thing because our knowledge is limited and one corner of thread of faith is hidden always. Yes, calling an illiterate act as illiterate is not under question.

I have no doubt that I am not discussing the people the example of which has been referred through a YouTube video. So, it should not be mixed up.

Regards,


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 22 2010 2:40:32 PM
Message:

Dear Kamran Sb,

Thank you so much for your valuable and informative comments. What is your point of view regarding the following.

Muhammad SW Ghar e Hira main Namaz ya Meditation (Wallah o Aalam) k liay tashreef lay jatay thay but jb Wahi nazil hoi k uthyay or apnay khandan waloon ko draiay, us k baad AP SW nay gosha nasheeni tarak kr di or hmain bhi gosha nasheeni ki zindagi sy mna frma dia,(reference on demand) thats y hmain Sahaba Kiram ki zindagi main bhi Khankahi nizam milta hay na swa lakh danoo wali tasbian bulkay unhoo nay apni sari zindagi community main reh k Jihad krtay hoay guzari or ratain Tahajud main. ( Kia aap nahin smjtay agr Sahaba Kiram ki is sunnat ko jari rakha jata bjay apni apni khankahoon main bayth k Allah ki haqeeqat smjnay or ishq Elahi ki koshishain na ki jatin tu aj Ummat ka hal different hota?)

I agree k saray amal krny k bad bhi Janat Allah ki rehmat say he milay gi, so jb main nay likha k aik shakhs 100% shariat per amal krta hay tu main ny assume kia tha Allah ki rehmat ki umeed bhi us main shamil hay.

Hazrat Awais Qarni R.A k baray main mera aik point of view hay may be ap loog differ krain, Unki Niat saf the or wo AP sw k deedar ki bayhad talab rakhtay thay but Walida k hukam k bghair nai ja sktay thay, so jahan yay hay k emaan kamil nahi hota jab tak Muhammad SW ki mohabbat pori dnya sy ziada na ho jay, Laikin deedar na kr skna is baat ki dalil nahin ho skti k Mohabbat km the, usi Mohabbat ka yay sila dia gya Allah ki taraf say k un sy Hazrat Umar R.A nay apni bakhshish ki dua krwai according to advice of Muhammad SW. Baqi Jihad na kr skna tu Taking care of elderly parents, as the prophet Muhammad ordered a youth to do, instead of joining a military campaign (Narrated by Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, al-Tirmidhi, and al-Nasa'i).
Waisay bhi AP SW ka hukam hay k walidain ki hr baat manoo sway shirk krnay k hukam k so Hazrat Awais R.A nay AP SW ka hukam mana or Sahabi k drja bhi mil gia.( Is main mujy koi dosra secret nzar nahin aata, apka kia khyal hay?)

Regards,


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Nov 25 2010 1:34:16 PM
Message:


Dear Ciapk

As far as Ghar-e-Hira is concerned, it is one of the examples; and everything done by the Propeht PBUH is a Sunnah for us. It was not a Gosha Nasheenee in the meaning that has been prohibited in Islam.

Prophet PBUH, even before announcing to public about his ProphetHood, was largely known as a perfect, balanced, positive and noble social personality. That's why he was called as Sadiq and Ameen (PBUH). So, there was never a question of any gosha nasheenee at all. Visits to Ghar-e-Hira were known to be short tenured and intended for praying and worshiping to Allah.

However, after annoucement of ProphetHood (PBUH) there were too many responsibilities to Ummah and a concept of praying in Jamaats was in vouge, that's why visits to Ghar-e-Hira were curtailed/rescinded (perhaps). Still, praying all the nights till before Fajar and Qayaam-o-Rakoo-o-Sajood for the Ummah's future and Islam's success remained part of life of Prophet (PBUH) which of course are not compuslory for every one and are not the part of Faraaiz.

By my last post, I meant that there are some MUSTs and there are some Non-Musts; until and unless the Non-Musts don't collide with Sharia and till the time these are within the permitted practices, these are supposed to enhance Allah's love and Rehmat for a human being. However, these should not form part of Bidaat which is another topic.

The Sahaba-e-Karaam were said to be like the stars of the skies by Prophet (PBUH). I believe Hazrat Awais Qarni R.A. was extremely willing and intending to have deedaar of the Prophet (PBUH). So, the question was merely to point out an incidence as food for thought. If this incidence appears so simple and straight forward (as you have concluded) then there can arise a number of questions for a student of religion, which you yourself can find from the history by having a comparative study. I personally believe there were certainly some other logical grounds and reasons which perhaps are and were not to be made public (not so sure though; as Holy Quran asks to ponder on and research). The incidence of prayer by Hazrat Awais Qarni R.A. for Hazrat umar Bin Khattab R.A. quoted by you also supports the validity of my saying that such incidence is a food for thought.

You study the bio-graphies of all Sahaba-e-Karam R.A.; and I believe you would find some special things about Hazrat Awais Qarni R.A. (All praises are for Allah). May Allah be happy with them and bestow all his mercies, love, blessings and rehmat on such shining stars of our golden Islamic era; and make us to follow their path in a real sense.

Regards,


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 26 2010 3:28:27 PM
Message:

Ameen,

Dear Kamran Sb,

1. I fully agreed "Non-Musts don't collide with Sharia and till the time these are within the permitted practices, these are supposed to enhance Allah's love and Rehmat for a human being. However, these should not form part of Bidaat which is another topic".

2. I may not fully agreed with a para from your second last post "BUT you can rarely (rather very rarely) find someone praying only and only and only due to Love (Ishq) of Allah with no greed of deen or dunya and Jannah or Jahnum. This sounds weird but is a fact"

This is very close to a typical statement given by Sufias (La Mehboba Ill Lallah, La Maqsooda Ill LAllah)(They love only Allah and they want only Allah despite the hope and fear of Jannat n Jahanam respectively)

In my view the persons who most love Allah in the highest category of love were Prophet Muhammad SW and Anbiya e Kiram A.S and nobody in this world never ever could claim that he loves Allah more than the holly Prophet Muhammad SW and Anbiya A.S. So, if I agree with your statement then I would have to be agree that Muhammad SW and other Anbiya A.S was offering prayers,doing Abidah n weeping was due to Ishq e Elahi only not for Jahnam or Jannat?. In my view this is not correct as this idea confront with Holy Quran and Sahih Ahadith. e.g

While talking about Hazrat Yonus A.S and Hazrat Zikriya o Yahya A.S Allah said in Sorah Anbiya 21, Ayat 90 " o We answered his call, and We bestowed upon him Yahya, and cured his wife (to bear a child) for him. Verily, they used to hasten on to do good deeds, and they used to call on Us with hope and fear, and used to humble themselves before Us".(I think that was a hope of Jannah and fear of Jahanum or hope of acceptance of Dua or fear of rejection of Duaa)

Further it is cleared,

Jabir ibn Abdullah narrated that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, said, “(I saw in a dream that) I entered Paradise, and behold, there was a palace built of gold. I asked, ‘Whose is this palace?’ They (the angels) replied, ‘For a man from the Quraysh.’ So I thought it might be I, so I asked, ‘And who is he?’ They said, ‘Umar Ibnul Khattab.’ Nothing stopped me form entering it except your Ghirah (sense of honor).” Umar said, “My Ghirah would never be offended by you, O Messenger of Allah.” (Bukhari and Muslim)

Furthermore,

Muslim reports from Aishah (ra) that there was a solar eclipse in the time of the Messenger (sw) and he said, “Whilst I was standing here I saw everything that you have been promised, I even saw myself picking some of the fruits of Paradise, when you saw me stepping forward. And I saw Hellfire, parts of it consuming other parts, when you saw me stepping backward”.


From a few reference above I think that Prophets who love Allah more than any other creature do have feelings of hope of Jannah its fruits and Palaces and stepping forward for them and also do have fear of hellfire and stepping backward for it and love of Allah almighty was off course there.

Therefore, i dont agree with the saying that some one have La Matlooba Ill Allah and La Maqsooda IllAllah and he pray only due to Ishq e Elahi and dont have hope for Jannah n fear of Jahanum as he couldn't be greater than Prophets.

3. As far as I know about Hazrat Awais Qarni R.A : His full name is Uways b. `Âmir b. Juz’ b. Mâlik b. Murâd al-Qarnî. He embraced Islam during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace be upon him), but he did not meet him. For this reason, he is not a Companion, but a Successor of Companions called Companion. He died in the Battle of Siffîn in the year 37 AH.(Fighting against Hazrat Muawia R.A from Hazrat Ali R.A side)

There are three Ahadiths about him that could be claimed as authentic (By Mohadisin).

`Umar b. al-Khattâb relates [Sahîh Muslim (2542)]:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “There will come to you a person from Yemen who will be called Uways. He would have no one in Yemen except his mother. He will have been afflicted with leprosy and will have supplicated to Allah about it and He will have cured him except for a patch the size of a silver or gold coin. Whoever amongst you meets him should ask him to supplicate for your forgiveness.”

In another narration from `Umar b. al-Khattâb, it reads [Sahîh Muslim (2542)]:

I heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say: “Indeed, the best of the Successors will be a man called Uways. He will have his mother and he will have been afflicted with leprosy. So ask him to supplicate for your forgiveness.”

In another narration from `Umar b. al-Khattâb, it reads [Sahîh Muslim (2542)]:

I heard Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) say: “There will come to you Uways b. `Âmir along with the people arriving as reinforcements from Yemen. He will be of Murâd then of Qarn. He will have been afflicted with leprosy and will have recovered except for a patch the size of a silver coin. He will have a mother whom he will honor. If he swears by Allah, Allah will bring his oath to fruition. Therefore, if you are able to have him supplicate for your forgiveness, then do so.”


This is what we have that is authentically narrated about Uways al-Qarnî R.A. Other narrations are inauthentic. There are indeed quite a number of hadîth about him that have been fabricated.(We can check that other ahadiths about Him are included in "ilsilah al-Ahâdîth al-Da`îfah wa al-Mawdû`ah (4/198 # 1707) and (5/234 # 2209)by Albani along with reason to be called as zaeef or fabricated)

There is a full body of knowledge that deals with the study of narrators and which facilitates the distinguishing of false hadîth from authentic ones.

Hazrat Awais R.A mostly quoted by Ahle Tashee people (as being fought for Hazrat Ali R.A being Shian e Ali R.A) or by Sufi Islam followers to start their silsila jat who believe that Zaeef Ahadith regarding NON MUSTS could be used as Hujjat for make the community more pious and who also believe upon Wahdat ul Wajood and Wahdat Ul Shahood as stories about Him (true of false)are most suited for their basic ideologies and preachings.

Allah knows the best.

Regards,


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Nov 27 2010 12:25:23 PM
Message:

Definitely Allah knows the best!!!

Praying for fear of Jahanum or a wish of Jannah is not prohibited as these have apparently been associated with the deeds and concluded as an outcome thereof by the commandments of God. However, I am no body to comment on the intent and purpose of prayers of Prophets (Peace Be Upon Them). I was talking about people like us.

Yet I believe, that the prayers of all the noble men who have been elevated by Allah cannot/were not empty of Allah's love; though the fears and wishes may be a part as well.

Yes, I rarely (rather, very very rarely) see any person (at least these days) to be praying merely (or primarily) for Allah's love. I wish the readers to understand that the word "RARELY" does not deny the out-right existance of some thing.

Notwithstanding this specific issue, Non-Musts have always been practiced and are fully covered within the concept of Islam, and these non-musts have ever been supposed to enhance the darajaat or to help seeking forgiveness. Both such persumed catalysts are said to be helpful for removing impurities and increasing Allah's love.

Thanks for the Ahadees and quotations about Hazrat Awais Qarni R.A. These quotations support my feeling that his (R.A.) personality is likely to be studied and pondered upon. These also clarify that the incident was not so simple and straight forward. If you don't feel so; or you feel that it was two plus two, then I don't have to argue because it is the matter of every one's own understanding and satisfaction.


Regards,


Reply author: ciapk
Replied on: Nov 28 2010 8:07:37 PM
Message:

Dear Kamran sb

Before concluding remarks on the topic your valuable comments needed on below links,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjXYoX7l1zM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk28VTzEjjE&feature=related


Regards,


Reply author: kamranACA
Replied on: Nov 29 2010 1:11:43 PM
Message:

If your question is directed towards Ghamidi sb's conclusion on Sufi-ism; I would say that Ghamidi is a person of knowledge and exposure and his views have all the weightage and importance.

I also understand that no body is perfect in knowledge and a human being in whatever capacity he is, can commit mistakes.

If we read Tafseer Ibn-e-Kaseer, we find that Imam (Rehmatullah Aleh) largely avoided imposing his own views on the readers. Instead, he produced all the worthy and reliable inputs on the matters explained and left the conclusion on the wisdom of the readers. This is what makes me to love his Tafseer. In many cases, I have witnessed that Ghamidi sb also follows somewhat similar practice. He explains various things, those which provide support to his stance as well as those which go against his own stance (and even those due to which people doubt on his personality) and let the listeners take their final conclusion.

Like-wise, he has given his views, which are of course his personalized stance, and has left the conclusion on listeners; the listenrs include you and me as well, so we all are supposed to have free will to follow what appears more satisfactory to our minds.

Over the time I learnt that we should avoid going beyond limits while explaining the matters or our own point of view; specially on the issues which are not against the existence of humanity or good human values (I delibrately avoided using the word "religious values").

Because, only Allah knows the best.

Regards,


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