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Modernization or Westernization in Pakistan - Printable Version

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Modernization or Westernization in Pakistan - deezel - 04-02-2005



AOA All,

Im currently in the USA. I have lived in Pakistan all my life. I moved to the US for higher education. Im here in the US ever since (1998- to date)

I want know how all of u feel about Pakistan being modernized or Westernized?

I have Geo TV and ARY at subscription at home and I think we Paki's are more western/ modern than before atleast in my teenage time; Im 28.

Please post to this topic and enlighten all of us especially buddies from Pakistan

[)]



- Huma - 04-02-2005

pretty interesting, ... Will get back to ur post shortly, gotta run to work...


- poor_ophie - 04-02-2005

Actually ..... we have not modernized ....... we are just getting rid of rigid thoughts and religious extremism ........ all of us who have grown up in early 90s or late 80s feel it a bit strange but I think its good to be more broad minded .......

- farazthegreat - 04-03-2005

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by poor_ophie</i>
<br />Actually ..... we have not modernized ....... we are just getting rid of rigid thoughts and religious extremism ........ all of us who have grown up in early 90s or late 80s feel it a bit strange but I think its good to be more broad minded .......
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There are religious extremists in every country. Look at the "Christian right-wing" in the US, and their reaction to the Schiavo case. They tried to ban "Spongebob Squarepants" because they thought he was gay. In my opinion they are just as ridiculous like our "mullahs", if not more.

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A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

- Pracs - 04-04-2005

The post zia - islamic cloak has sort of fizzeld out to quite an extent. It is true that people are now more open to a lot of possibilities, we are now more ''industrialised'' say compared to two decades ago. Ofcourse it has a lot more to do with education that has some how penetrated to the smaller cities as well.

However, care must be taken not to preceive the level of westernisation to the general outlook of an unrbanite Pakistani,. that is something more infuenced by the Cable and the internet. We may look more westernised but need to be more ''developed'' in the way we think, work and care.

- abdulmajid - 04-04-2005

in pakistan extremist are on the rise ( both religious extremists and pseudo-liberals), moderates are on the receiving end. when we don't agree with the ignorance of mullah, he questions our Iman. and when we don't join dirty liberal fanatics, they call us narrow minded. since both type of hardliners love to smash me that's why i consider myself a moderate (sure some will disagree [D]).

inta habieba omri, malikta omri

- farazthegreat - 04-04-2005

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by abdulmajid</i>
<br />in pakistan extremist are on the rise ( both religious extremists and pseudo-liberals), moderates are on the receiving end. when we don't agree with the ignorance of mullah, he questions our Iman. and when we don't join dirty liberal fanatics, they call us narrow minded. since both type of hardliners love to smash me that's why i consider myself a moderate (sure some will disagree [D]).

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree with you. What is interesting is the behaviour of the so-called liberals who negate the very essence of liberalism. Instead of beliving in individual liberty and on the ability of individuals to structure their own society, they tend to bash anyone who doesn't agree with them as being narrow-minded. Oh, the irony..

At least the mullahs are who they claim to be.

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A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

- Desert Sleet - 04-04-2005

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by deezel</i>
<br />

AOA All,

Im currently in the USA. I have lived in Pakistan all my life. I moved to the US for higher education. Im here in the US ever since (1998- to date)

I want know how all of u feel about Pakistan being modernized or Westernized?

I have Geo TV and ARY at subscription at home and I think we Paki's are more western/ modern than before atleast in my teenage time; Im 28.

Please post to this topic and enlighten all of us especially buddies from Pakistan

[)]


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Pkistan today is a complete mess, a sad example of what can happen when a once-favored "frontline state" is reduced to the status of a cold war orphan. In his brief visit American President urged a quick return to civilian rule, but in fact few Pakistanis mourn Gen. Pervez Musharraf's overthrow of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's corrupt and oppressive pseudo-democracy. The poor and the secular-liberal intelligentsia pray that the new military regime will prevent a slide toward further chaos. These hopes are likely to be dashed, since the regime is paralyzed by internal divisions. Mohammed Aziz and Mahmoud Ahmed, the two key generals flanking Musharraf, are known for their sympathies with the fundamentalist Taliban.

Several tests confront the new strongman of Pakistan Will he be able to modernize the economy and end the corruption and violence that plague the country's major cities? Has he the will to disarm the fundamentalist militias, which have been fighting a sectarian civil war for nearly three years, without disturbing the unstable equilibrium within the army? Will he be able to make peace with India? These are the questions that a US President visiting a decaying protectorate would have addressed if he were genuinely interested in the welfare of the country. In all three areas, however, Washington is incapable of providing guidance. The US/IMF neoliberal agenda forbids desperately needed economic reforms, Washington is deeply implicated in the rise of the fundamentalist groups through its multibillion-dollar aid to the Afghan mujahedeen, and America's failure to ratify the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty makes a mockery of its repeated demands that Pakistan and India sign the pact.
<b>http//www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20000417&s=ali</b> [8)]
A basic modernization of Pakistan would include drastic land reform and a tax on wealth, increased state spending on primary and secondary education and healthcare, more public housing and the development of new medium-sized towns to decrease the pressure on large cities. A massive reduction in the military budget is crucial--roughly 6 percent of the country's GDP is devoted to the country's bloated military, about twice what is spent on education and health combined. And any serious political reform would include constitutional rights for women and minorities. The UN Development Program's gender empowerment measure, which rates gender inequality in areas of economic and political participation and decision-making, ranked Pakistan second worst in the world. Last year there were more than 1,000 "honor killings" of women.

In successive general elections, the people have consistently voted against hard-line religious parties. The strength of religious extremism, till now, has been derived from state patronage rather than popular support. The groups that are currently paralyzing the country were the creation of the late and unlamented Gen. Mohammed Zia ul-Haq, who received Saudi petrodollars and political, military and financial support from the United States and Britain throughout his years as dictator, from 1977 to 1988. The West needed Zia to fight its war against the former Soviet Union after that country invaded Afghanistan in 1979. Nothing else mattered. The CIA turned a blind eye to the sale of heroin, supposedly to fund that war, and the results are hideous The number of officially registered heroin addicts in Pakistan rose from 130 in 1977 to 30,000 in 1988. Now there are several million addicts.

<b>I did referenced my post, But mistakengly i pasted it in the middle for which i am sorry folks</b>.[|)]



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“Little minds are tamed and subdued by misfortune; but great minds rise above it.”

- farazthegreat - 04-05-2005

Desert Sleet. If you are going to copy another person's article, at least give credit to the original author. Don't plagarise. I respect you as an intelligent member but 90% of your posts are nothing but a google search followed by a copy-paste job.

http//www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20000417&s=ali

Edit Saw your edit, fair enough [)]

---------------------------------------------------------
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

- poor_ophie - 04-07-2005

Dear D.S ......... I've been dormant for quite a while and I'll be dormant till your obnoxious presence here ……. But still I would like to say that you don’t have a right to call Pakistan a “complete mess” while you are living outside somewhere in a havened island. Why don’t you move your sorry butt right in the middle here and face the music ……… In my opinion you are with those idiots who have already bought front seat tickets to watch a show of drowning our ship. Now the show is not starting as expected and it is making you freaking out. Sorry mate ……. You’ll have to wait for ever ……. If you can’t join our country then you can at least refrain yourself to make negative comments about us and I’ll be personally thankful to you for this………now you may go ahead and give my attitude some unheard terminology and discuss it for rest of your miserable life……..

- Desert Sleet - 04-08-2005

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by poor_ophie</i>
<br />Dear D.S ......... I've been dormant for quite a while and I'll be dormant till your obnoxious presence here ……. But still I would like to say that you don’t have a right to call Pakistan a “complete mess” while you are living outside somewhere in a havened island. Why don’t you move your sorry butt right in the middle here and face the music ……… In my opinion you are with those idiots who have already bought front seat tickets to watch a show of drowning our ship. Now the show is not starting as expected and it is making you freaking out. Sorry mate ……. You’ll have to wait for ever ……. If you can’t join our country then you can at least refrain yourself to make negative comments about us and I’ll be personally thankful to you for this………now you may go ahead and give my attitude some unheard terminology and discuss it for rest of your miserable life……..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah, I know, Mr.Ophie. But I was just doing my part to help in this thread of flames for you...

Seriously, the real difference in opinions here is often whether or not we trust the State. I am an enemy of the state, you are a friend. But that is just what you think. The other end of the telescope makes you little people and not worth crushing to the monsters you adore. Challenge them or find fault with their force-fed statism and they will turn and rend you...

And just to clear the difference of opinion. That wasnt my article, so check the link http//www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20000417&s=ali

I am leaving this one open for you, if you still want to have some flaming debate then please dont hesitate to post here. [(!]


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“Little minds are tamed and subdued by misfortune; but great minds rise above it.”

- farazthegreat - 04-08-2005

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by poor_ophie</i>
<br />Dear D.S ......... I've been dormant for quite a while and I'll be dormant till your obnoxious presence here ……. But still I would like to say that you don’t have a right to call Pakistan a “complete mess” while you are living outside somewhere in a havened island. Why don’t you move your sorry butt right in the middle here and face the music ……… In my opinion you are with those idiots who have already bought front seat tickets to watch a show of drowning our ship. Now the show is not starting as expected and it is making you freaking out. Sorry mate ……. You’ll have to wait for ever ……. If you can’t join our country then you can at least refrain yourself to make negative comments about us and I’ll be personally thankful to you for this………now you may go ahead and give my attitude some unheard terminology and discuss it for rest of your miserable life……..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Lenin spent most of his life in exile, came back and changed his country forever. You can't say somebody outside of Pakistan is not as patriotic as you are.

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A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

- Sahar_M - 04-14-2005

=))

- cpa_guy - 06-07-2005

what exactly is westernization? somehow our definition of westernization seems to stall at women. More co-mingling of the sexes or no dupattas are commonly cited as effects of westernization. if we really want westernization we first need to make our government accountable to the people. Then let's take it from there.

- zaree1 - 06-07-2005

it is much better to be modernised than follow the present culture of greed mistrust and hunger for power followed by MMA in Pakistan

zee khan