07-26-2009, 01:57 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Dear,
ACCA is good qualification if we look at its academic side, its subjects, study material, contents, and so on. This can polish the abilities of a genius but can't help every one with same intensity. There is lot more which needs to be reviewed which in my personal opinion (that's not binding on any one else) has been ignored. I discussed it with representatives of Pak chapter and they acknolwdged what I said is in fact notable and workable. However, neither they have to compulsorily act upon my humble suggestions nor I am so much concerned to keep on debating with them. Leaving a few rare cases which I know you are aware of, ACCAs are not well accepted at Pakistan and in fact flow out in loads every year. This creates frustration for lot more people who went out with an intent of returning gracefully to the homeland. The intent which never comes true because they know what they will be offered here. You must have witnessed cases of such frustration.
This was not what you asked but lays the foundation of what I want to reply.
In fact no qualification is that bad if we discuss it simply with reference to the academic issues. Professionaly speaking we can find differences. This is what one needs to concentrate on.
ICAEW has a history of larger acceptance at sub continent as well as so many parts of the world. It's respected for its quality undoubtedly. This has nothing to do with poor people's creation of master slave issues or revenue race or number game etc. Had it been the case ACCA should have been respected professionally in same fashion which unfortunately is not the case irrespective of lots of MRAs. If one can understand he may be knowing that like academic contents, MRAs can also not enhance acceptance in some designation's originality. Yes MRAs provide a base to penetrate if the subject qualification is factually upto it. So again undoubtedly it is solely based upon the grace, priviliges and honor which ICAEW carries for its quality over the decades and decades. It's no master slave issue.
ICAP has a greater relevance to the people who want to settle down at Pakistan or eventually at Pakistan although its members are working around the globe. It carrys independent identity and backing by Goverment, public and private sectors being localized charterholder, advisor and part of policy making exercizes at some fronts or in some facets.
ICAP did not make that level of efforts for MRAs etc in past since there was huge demand supply imbalance for its members thereby providing handsome returns locally as well as internationally.
However, now as a step forward to do the needful in changed globalized scenario it has recently started efforts for MRAs and MOU with ICAEW is the first such step. The people commenting on the step are theirself the most rejected and frustrated one. Their condition does not make them to understand this process. Essense is, end of times has not come and we have to witness a lot more in coming days on positive pole. An international qualification may come forth which can change the whole scene. I don't go into details before time.
In Pak ICAEW is fully recognised for membership of ICAP but this membership carries restricted rights. For getting into public practice they have to pass certain papers of ICAP. Without this they could be good only for industry and not for profession. Terms to be taken in general sense.
So summing up this whole write up, I feel ICAEW's CA will be a good option for ACCAs because they will get ICAP's membership as well. However two things can affect this decision. Firstly, since end of times has not come, if ICAP will restrict its membership to those ICAEW members who do not carry such designation on the basis of ACCA (or CIMA) then it will not be good. I personally will suggest ICAP's council members to take such decision since it also follows same rule. Let's see what they feel appropriate.
Secondly, even if ICAEW members who got such designation on the basis of ACCA are given ICAP's membership, they will not be allowed to start or join any public practice.
Keeping this in mind you can take your own decision.
Let me know if you require some input.
Regards,
Kamran.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thank u for a detailed and in-length reply. I really appreciate that. According to my understanding at the moment, there is substantial risk involved for an ACCA affiliate to become an ACA-ICAEW student. This is mainly because most of the to-be ACCA Affilates(waiting for the results) are unsure and skeptical that whether they would be able to get an ICAEW Training Contract in Pakistan. I have however claimed the credit for prior learning from ICAEW, just in case if there are other developments.
On the other hand, CA-ICAP seems to be a more safer path for an ACCA Affiliate, and i know a number of ACCAs who took this path and have been enjoying quite a successful career.
I agree with you that some aspects of the ACCA qualification needs to be reviewed. I personally feel that the there should be strict entrance requirements for the ACCA qualification. AT the moment any Tom, Dick or Harry can enter into ACCA without any testing. Secondly, the marking procedure of the exam scripts should be improved. I know a number of below average students, who had little or no knowledge about the subject, still passing their papers. This is very unfair and demotivating for those students who spend days and nights in their studies, reading reference books and journals, and at the end of the day find themselves on the same stand as any other mediocre student. To strengthen this point i would like to quote Michael Mainwaring, the teacher for ACCA paper P3 "Business Analysis" at London College of Accountancy UK. Mainwaring writes about the marking procedure of ACCA and states that
<b>"Students labour under the naive belief that their exam papers are marked by a dedicated subject specialist, against a detailed marking scheme in which there are uniform standards which determines who passes and who fails. I suspect that such students also believe in Father Christmas, the tooth fairy and that auditing is about generating a true and fair view of a business.
No. They are marked by people who are largely doing it for the money, and doing it under time pressures, with only general guidance of what marks to award. Further, i has long been suspected (and the ACCA has apparently admitted) that marks are adjusted to achieve the desired pass rates. What this means is that <u>you can pass this exam by writing crap</u>, as long as it is neatly presented crap, and as long as you give crappy answers to three questions, and as long as 40% or so of other students sitting the paper write crappier answers".</b> (emphasis is mine) <i>Page iv ACCA P3 "Business Analysis" Study Manual by Michael Mainwaring, published by LCA.</i>
Above words of Mainwaring might be encouraging for those students who wish to pass their papers without laboring for it, but it deeply concerns me as this method of marking would prove to be detrimental for the quality of ACCA. Moreover this marking methodology would (infact, it has) cause incompetent people to flood the job market, creating problems for deserving individuals.
I usually compare myself with those of my friends who are CA-Inters and are about the same age as i am, and i find that as an ACCA Affiliate i would have more options available to me than they have at the moment. However, more options often cause confusions, dilemmas and trilemmas!! But one feels a lot secure when they have a variety of options available to them. But having more options is not necessarily an ingredient for the recipe of a successful career. Secondly, i feel that i have gained more knowledge in ACCA than i would have achieved as a CA-Inter. That difference is evident if one compares the syllabus of CA-Inter with ACCA syllabus. The knowledge i have gained in ACCA has prepared me for the Module E and Module F papers i will have to attempt in CA-ICAP (except for Law and Taxation papers). To conclude, according to my limited knowlegde, i believe that ACCA is a good route for CA-ICAP. But that is my view; others might have a different view as well.
<br />Dear,
ACCA is good qualification if we look at its academic side, its subjects, study material, contents, and so on. This can polish the abilities of a genius but can't help every one with same intensity. There is lot more which needs to be reviewed which in my personal opinion (that's not binding on any one else) has been ignored. I discussed it with representatives of Pak chapter and they acknolwdged what I said is in fact notable and workable. However, neither they have to compulsorily act upon my humble suggestions nor I am so much concerned to keep on debating with them. Leaving a few rare cases which I know you are aware of, ACCAs are not well accepted at Pakistan and in fact flow out in loads every year. This creates frustration for lot more people who went out with an intent of returning gracefully to the homeland. The intent which never comes true because they know what they will be offered here. You must have witnessed cases of such frustration.
This was not what you asked but lays the foundation of what I want to reply.
In fact no qualification is that bad if we discuss it simply with reference to the academic issues. Professionaly speaking we can find differences. This is what one needs to concentrate on.
ICAEW has a history of larger acceptance at sub continent as well as so many parts of the world. It's respected for its quality undoubtedly. This has nothing to do with poor people's creation of master slave issues or revenue race or number game etc. Had it been the case ACCA should have been respected professionally in same fashion which unfortunately is not the case irrespective of lots of MRAs. If one can understand he may be knowing that like academic contents, MRAs can also not enhance acceptance in some designation's originality. Yes MRAs provide a base to penetrate if the subject qualification is factually upto it. So again undoubtedly it is solely based upon the grace, priviliges and honor which ICAEW carries for its quality over the decades and decades. It's no master slave issue.
ICAP has a greater relevance to the people who want to settle down at Pakistan or eventually at Pakistan although its members are working around the globe. It carrys independent identity and backing by Goverment, public and private sectors being localized charterholder, advisor and part of policy making exercizes at some fronts or in some facets.
ICAP did not make that level of efforts for MRAs etc in past since there was huge demand supply imbalance for its members thereby providing handsome returns locally as well as internationally.
However, now as a step forward to do the needful in changed globalized scenario it has recently started efforts for MRAs and MOU with ICAEW is the first such step. The people commenting on the step are theirself the most rejected and frustrated one. Their condition does not make them to understand this process. Essense is, end of times has not come and we have to witness a lot more in coming days on positive pole. An international qualification may come forth which can change the whole scene. I don't go into details before time.
In Pak ICAEW is fully recognised for membership of ICAP but this membership carries restricted rights. For getting into public practice they have to pass certain papers of ICAP. Without this they could be good only for industry and not for profession. Terms to be taken in general sense.
So summing up this whole write up, I feel ICAEW's CA will be a good option for ACCAs because they will get ICAP's membership as well. However two things can affect this decision. Firstly, since end of times has not come, if ICAP will restrict its membership to those ICAEW members who do not carry such designation on the basis of ACCA (or CIMA) then it will not be good. I personally will suggest ICAP's council members to take such decision since it also follows same rule. Let's see what they feel appropriate.
Secondly, even if ICAEW members who got such designation on the basis of ACCA are given ICAP's membership, they will not be allowed to start or join any public practice.
Keeping this in mind you can take your own decision.
Let me know if you require some input.
Regards,
Kamran.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thank u for a detailed and in-length reply. I really appreciate that. According to my understanding at the moment, there is substantial risk involved for an ACCA affiliate to become an ACA-ICAEW student. This is mainly because most of the to-be ACCA Affilates(waiting for the results) are unsure and skeptical that whether they would be able to get an ICAEW Training Contract in Pakistan. I have however claimed the credit for prior learning from ICAEW, just in case if there are other developments.
On the other hand, CA-ICAP seems to be a more safer path for an ACCA Affiliate, and i know a number of ACCAs who took this path and have been enjoying quite a successful career.
I agree with you that some aspects of the ACCA qualification needs to be reviewed. I personally feel that the there should be strict entrance requirements for the ACCA qualification. AT the moment any Tom, Dick or Harry can enter into ACCA without any testing. Secondly, the marking procedure of the exam scripts should be improved. I know a number of below average students, who had little or no knowledge about the subject, still passing their papers. This is very unfair and demotivating for those students who spend days and nights in their studies, reading reference books and journals, and at the end of the day find themselves on the same stand as any other mediocre student. To strengthen this point i would like to quote Michael Mainwaring, the teacher for ACCA paper P3 "Business Analysis" at London College of Accountancy UK. Mainwaring writes about the marking procedure of ACCA and states that
<b>"Students labour under the naive belief that their exam papers are marked by a dedicated subject specialist, against a detailed marking scheme in which there are uniform standards which determines who passes and who fails. I suspect that such students also believe in Father Christmas, the tooth fairy and that auditing is about generating a true and fair view of a business.
No. They are marked by people who are largely doing it for the money, and doing it under time pressures, with only general guidance of what marks to award. Further, i has long been suspected (and the ACCA has apparently admitted) that marks are adjusted to achieve the desired pass rates. What this means is that <u>you can pass this exam by writing crap</u>, as long as it is neatly presented crap, and as long as you give crappy answers to three questions, and as long as 40% or so of other students sitting the paper write crappier answers".</b> (emphasis is mine) <i>Page iv ACCA P3 "Business Analysis" Study Manual by Michael Mainwaring, published by LCA.</i>
Above words of Mainwaring might be encouraging for those students who wish to pass their papers without laboring for it, but it deeply concerns me as this method of marking would prove to be detrimental for the quality of ACCA. Moreover this marking methodology would (infact, it has) cause incompetent people to flood the job market, creating problems for deserving individuals.
I usually compare myself with those of my friends who are CA-Inters and are about the same age as i am, and i find that as an ACCA Affiliate i would have more options available to me than they have at the moment. However, more options often cause confusions, dilemmas and trilemmas!! But one feels a lot secure when they have a variety of options available to them. But having more options is not necessarily an ingredient for the recipe of a successful career. Secondly, i feel that i have gained more knowledge in ACCA than i would have achieved as a CA-Inter. That difference is evident if one compares the syllabus of CA-Inter with ACCA syllabus. The knowledge i have gained in ACCA has prepared me for the Module E and Module F papers i will have to attempt in CA-ICAP (except for Law and Taxation papers). To conclude, according to my limited knowlegde, i believe that ACCA is a good route for CA-ICAP. But that is my view; others might have a different view as well.