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Canadian Immigration and ACCA, CIMA, CFA or CMA
09-24-2008, 08:46 PM
Post: #31
 
Dear ad2478,


Thank you for agreeing to my view point positively.

I deduce, you are too in-experienced to understand, at your own, what you have asked, due to your initial steps in the profession. This is not a negative remark, rather, this is a fact. You are quite young and have just entered the professional level probably.

I wished to avoid CA v/s ACCA debate here. Therefore, my reply is ONLY and ONLY purposed to answer your query and is not to hit any body else. If some one feels ACCA is the best he should continue with it. I have no objection.

ACCA could be good generally, or in UK or middle-east specifically, or may have some MRAs with other designations. I always say it is a good gate way for other designations. In this post I am only focusing on "ACCA in Pakistan" for the sake of your clarity. Accordingly, these remarks are not for everywhere.

I have some-where in other threads elaborated three categories of ACCAs with specific reference to Pakistan. You should go to my earlier posts in other such threads and read out all arguments I have placed for you guys. You will appreciate that no body will like to choose lesser authoritative, local charter deficient, and 98% population (who absconded one profession for the reasons of failure) if he is resourceful to get all these things. Every thing in ACCA is comfortable, relaxed, and requires far lesser contribution from a student. This is a fact. You or I or else cannot deny it. People here lose many years in CA and then enter the ACCA and get through it quickly. {For qualified CAs, it had off course never been an issue.} This has ruined the image of ACCA largely. Now if you or somebody else start battling on ICAP's policies for the failure of such guys, I will never agree to you and it would be wastage of time because I know passing CA is not a mystery. Yes, it requires competence and the fittest has to survive. You will agree that this is the rule everywhere in all spheres of life.

In Pakistan ACCA has not so far been well recognized and I am sorry to say that ACCA has also not made very keen efforts in this regard. Pakistan Chapter is still working as a non-profit company constituted Under Section 42 of the Companies Ordinance 1984 and the marketing efforts, specially with those who are the main entrepreneurs in Pakistan are almost nil and unconvincing. There is a difference in non-profit company and a chartered institute although so many such companies use the word chartered with them but they are never chartered by any one in real sense. I have other examples as well which I don't want to quote.

Further, ACCA profession is TOTALLY dependent upon CA profession in Pakistan. You must understand it. Majority of ACCA students are working under CAs in CA firms (and even in industry) and their chapter cannot make anything to modify this situation. I recently, in a meeting with some official of ACCA chapter, have given him certain suggestions to promote their designation in Pakistan by encouraging the establishment of ACCA professional firms. This could be a step forward but so far I don’t think anything has been done. In colleges ACCAs are learning from CAs and are always dependent upon them for so many things. When ACCAs are dependent upon some one else they will never be treated as a first choice professional either by such firms or by their clients. You can understand how such students present their selves to the industry. I should avoid going into details. Whoever is ACCA is well aware of it.

Now I come to the point of knowledge and understanding. ICAP CAs are among the world’s most equipped and competent designation-holders. The statement of inexperienced kids and the ones who are from 98% class cannot change this fact. You guys just don't understand it at this point of time. It is Pakistan, an under-developed country which does not compete the advanced world in any field, still ICEAW considered it expedient to enter into MOU with ICAP. One who quotes childish examples of O-level and A-level should try to understand it. I have already explained that such MOU has indirectly given ICAP members all those recognitions (like ICAA) which ICEAW members enjoy. This is a big acceptance of Pakistani CAs by the world’s most recognized institute. It is well discussed and I don't want to go in further details.

In contrast, ACCAs in Pakistan, the majority of which is refugee of CA profession due to whatever reasons………………………………………………………………â​€¦.

-are the students of ICAP members (CAs) at large,
-idealize them (CAs) and get inspired from such ICAP members (CAs),
-learn from them,
-are dependent upon them for every thing they get or conceive,

……………………………..…………..make good joke by calling their own-selves more competent and knowledgeable. Should I go in further details? I told you that merely the books don't make a designation the superior one. Books are off course open for every one in the competition and it's an era of consulting whatever comes in the way rather than just striking the thoughts with one DRURY book for example. Should I go in further detail for explaining you the situation?

Hopefully this will make you to understand and I would not be bothered to go in further details.

I am always here to answer and discuss the professional questions. I also feel we should now avoid discussing this CA v/s ACCA because this thread has some other purposes.


Regards,



KAMRAN.
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09-25-2008, 04:17 PM
Post: #32
 
Dear ad2478,

At the moment I will reply your first post because I am not well updated on the second one although I know FRM has good demand in banking sector, at least in UAE.

I don't just want to mention my personal comments about ACMA of Pakistan. I personally feel that CIMA is (far) better than it.

Every professional in fact puts in some efforts and as such has a worth either it is as first option or second or third for the entrepreneur. {I only object on those who get failed and make allegations and change the field}. Still, we cannot be irrational for concluding the things.

Again this conclusion has a big background which, if I explain, will definitely convince the readers. However, I must request you not to ask me such basis on the forum because it can again hurt so many people.

I normally avoid writing the posts on un-tested areas of knowledge. If some one dissent he should also come up with logical basis. Inexperienced ones and unaware persons cannot conclude the facts precisely, in my view.

It’s morally good for such persons to keep in view their awareness level before raising illogical issues.

We should also be open to accept the truth of the other side.

I must say that in this world every thing is possible.


Regards,



KAMRAN.
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09-26-2008, 03:06 AM
Post: #33
 
Dear ad2478 and Other Students

Don’t be confused with flood of information. Sometimes more than required information negatively effects one’s decisions. At this stage of life, simply pay attention to whatever studies you are doing. After that, select a core designation and work hard to get it. After core designation, go for second/support/specialized designation of the industry you would actually be working in. Moreover, internet (in a global village) is a great source of information, but be considerate that we all have scarce resources including time and efforts etc. So, it should be used in effective, efficient, and goal oriented manner.

In my view, designations can be divided in two types i.e. (1) Group A Core designations, which are CA, CMA, ACCA, CIMA, CPA, CGA, or CFA, and (2) Group B Specialized/ Support designations, which may be CIA, CISA, CFE, or FRM etc., though for some people these may be core too, for example, for a person who has some base qualification (business or non-business) and, somehow, directly gets a job in internal audit department of an organization, or for a person with IT background involved in info. system audits in audit firm etc.

As my personal suggestion, drop-outs of core designations too should consider Group B designations, in order to substantiate their knowledge/experience, and as Plan B. Off-course, holders of Group A designations may get another core or Group B designation anytime.

So, I am trying to say that, at initial stage of career planning, students should consider core designations first. This is my personal view that may be different from other.

Further, I would strongly suggest students to practice and improve their skills in searching information independently with objective state of mind, critical thinking, synthesize, filter, summarize, construct and deduce logical conclusions. It would help them a lot during studies and later on, in professional life. This is one of the objectives of whatever designation you are working for. It simply means, do your homework first, before asking other.

Moreover, control over variations in human emotions is also an important area that should be dealt with during preparation for designations which need great efforts and endurance. Unexpected results cause frustration, avoidance, and eventually escape/exit. Students should consider ways to vent frustration and also emotion counseling through discussion with other students in similar situation. Therefore, if it is not allowed on this forum, or if already there is no such forum exist for students of ICAP/ ICMAP/ or other designations in Pakistan, students should consider to form groups on Yahoo Groups (that is a free service) to discuss their issues/views. It may also provide them medium to exchange study material or hints for solutions (not the actual solution). Students may also go on other forums like following to see how other students in other countries are coping with such problems.

http//www.cpanet.com/cpa_forum/default.asp

http//www.analystforum.com/phorums/

Above were some of the suggestions that I wanted to give after browsing some of the threads of this forum and by assessing student problems.

Now, I come to ad2478 questions

Here is the link for FRM, do some research by yourself that would help to develop your skills. Please feel no offence.
http//www.garp.com/frmexam/

http//www.garp.com/frmexam/industry.aspx

Generally speaking, we all study about market, credit, and operational risks and their measurement, management, and minimization in core (i.e. Group A) designations. Perhaps, CFAs study more, as compared to other designations, about such topics in their curriculum. However, it is relatively new and much specialized designation. Usually, CFAs or those who are already in relevant jobs go for FRM. Still, it can be beneficial for other designated accountants who are in stewardship positions like CFOs or for external/ internal auditors who are involved in measurement of various risks, specially from management of operational risks point of view. In my view, it is more relevant in developed countries and in sophisticated markets. Introduction and use of specialized designations in Pakistan, in any case, is not a bad idea. But again, in my view, the people in Pakistan who are already in relevant jobs should consider it. Try to get a job by a fresh student after FRM could be difficult, even in developed countries, and specially in Pakistan. Most of the employers either don’t know about it or simply don’t require it from a fresh student, even here or in US.

Regarding your second question, financial manager is quite comprehensive term, so for the sake of limiting, I assume you mean CFO, COO, or Controller. In my view, risk manager, analyst v/s. CFO/COO/Controller are specialized and segregated functions. Take it this way, risk managers or analysts are only a part (though vital) of an organization and are not directly responsible for overall (at macro level) survival of organization. Whereas, CFO would be directly responsible for survival and growth of organization, and would be monitoring/ overseeing/ and managing other aspects of organization too for which risk managers and analysts are not responsible for. As compared to this, at lower levels of organization, in medium cadre of jobs, or in a small organization where responsibilities are not segregated sophisticatedly, risk managers/analyst/financial managers may be interchangeable, depending on circumstances.

Again, please feel no offence, but don’t be confused with such details. There are so many things which you would learn with time and efforts in education. In my view, things you are concentrating on, should not be your objective at this stage. Don’t burn your bulbs unnecessary. Save your energy and focus it on existing studies. Learn how to control mind that keeps escaping from existing study difficulties toward distant glittering things. I hope you would take it positively.


Regards
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09-26-2008, 12:58 PM
Post: #34
 
where is acca. is it in group a or in b
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09-26-2008, 03:22 PM
Post: #35
 
<font color="red"><b>Dear Toronto_Boy;</b></font id="red">

Your analytical approach and in-depth reasoning is indeed appreciatable, each of your post is depicting your control over the subject matter,

Can you please let us know about your Education, Age, Experience and all what you do?


I hope you won't mind!

Regards,
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09-27-2008, 12:56 AM
Post: #36
 
Dear nakaiun, EnslavedSpirit and ad2478

nakaiun Sorry for forgetting about ACCA in flow of writing. In my view, ACCA is a CORE (Group A) and internationally recognized accounting designation. Please revisit my earlier post, I have included ACCA there now. It proves no-one is perfect and we all are humans.

Thanks for pointing out.

EnslavedSpirit Public forum per personal questions nahi poochtay hain. By the way, in one of my earlier posts, I have written about my qualification and current job.

ad2478 Now, I got your point for FRM. It seems ligitimate designation. Also, I saw people studying for it here. Check its worth/demand by searching jobs on following job sites in USA and Canada.

http//www.careerbuilder.com/?skipg=y

http//www.careerbuilder.ca/CA/Default.aspx

http//jobsearch.monster.ca/?WT.srch=1

http//www.monster.com/

http//www.workopolis.com/work.aspx?action=Transfer&View=Content/Common/WorkLoginView&lang=EN

I hope it helps.


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09-27-2008, 07:13 PM
Post: #37
 
toronto boy what u think abt acca is it a good qualification or not
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09-28-2008, 03:05 AM
Post: #38
 
If I use to Answer this.

Every Qualification is Good one if you worked hard to accomplish that one. I've seen a lot of people used their time just to explain and justify which one is better and which one is poor.

I think ACCA is a Complete qualification there is no need to pursue for ICAEW or ICAP after completing this.
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09-29-2008, 12:30 AM
Post: #39
 
Dear nakaiun

Without going into details, in my view, ACCA is a good qualification.

Regards
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09-29-2008, 03:18 AM
Post: #40
 
Dear Students

I have noticed that several institutes in Pakistan are offering preparatory classes for CPA(USA) thesedays, which is a good thing. In the following post, I would mention some points to consider by students who are preparing for CPA (USA) in Pakistan.

Valid Visa and Stay in USA CPA (USA) exams are only conducted in USA. So, student at-least need valid USA visa to go there to appear in exams. There are 4 exams which all should be passed in 18 months. If a student does not pass all 4 exams within 18 months, he/she starts losing credit for already passed exam. Overall passing rate in one exam is around 40%. Passing rate of EACH exam (out of 4 exams) in FIRST attempt is quite low (I think between 8% to 12%, students can check exact rate from various sources). Passing rate of ALL 4 exams in FIRST attempt is further lower than one paper rate, thus, I assume passing rate of ALL 4 in FIRST ATTEMPT in SHORTER PERIOD THAN 18 MONTHS would be further low (I don’t know this rate). Reason to tell all of this is, a student should plan for stay in USA for the period in which he/she would pass. Flying frequently in between Pakistan and USA (in 18 months) could raise suspicions (and probably deportation) at airports where photographing and fingerprinting is MUST for Pakistanis entering on Pakistani passports.

Social Security Number (SSN) It is like our identity card number. Many States require this number to issue certificate/licence after passing all 4 exams. Simply passing 4 exams and not having certificate/licence does not matter much.

150 Credit Hour Education Requirement Rule Almost all, with exception to few, States need 150 credit hour of education to sit for CPA exam. Out of these 150 hours, there are further very specific requirements of accounting related (i.e. Financial Accounting, Management Accounting, Auditing, and Tax) and business course (like economics, finance, business law etc.). These specific requirements vary from State to State. Foreign students need to get their transcripts/degrees be evaluated by State Board of Accounting’s prescribed transcripts evaluation service. Courses taken in foreign countries (like in Pakistan) should be equivalent to US accredited institutes. Students should check specific State’s Board of Accounting requirements from where they are intending to appear for exam.

Experience Requirements for Certificate/Licence and Experience Certification by CPA Students should check whether a specific State accepts foreign experience or not. What type of experience is accepted i.e. public accounting or industry etc. Most of the States require working experience under supervision of US CPA. Moreover, requirements to sit in exams are different from Certificate/Licence requirements.

Residency Requirements Some Sates issue Certificate/Licence only to residents of that State or to out of State applicants if they are conducting business in that specific State.

Matching of State requirements with applicant's situation is an important task that should be done in advance, in order to avoid problems/obstacles later on. Student must see specific requirements on State Board of Accounting's (BOA) website for "Exam" and "Cetificate/ Licence" requirements that may or may not be same, from where student is intending to appear for exam. Due to Computer Based Testing (CBT), it is not necessary to schedule exam exactly in same State from which student is appearing as candidate. So, candidate of one State can schedule exam in any other State. It means if a student from Pakistan is appearing as let say Nebraska's candidate or any other State's candidate, he can still schedule exams in nearest exam centre of his residence, which means if you have relatives in Chicago (in Illinois State, and staying with them) and you are appearing as Nebraska's candidate, you can schedule exam in Chicago. You would get the results as Nebraska's candidate.

I hope it helps.

Regards
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10-23-2008, 02:40 AM
Post: #41
 
Dear ad2478

Regarding GARP, you may have interest in information provided in following two links. I don't know much about accuracy of this information.

http//www.riskglossary.com/papers/garp_letter.htm

http//www.riskglossary.com/link/garp_scandal.htm

Regards
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11-03-2008, 08:57 PM
Post: #42
 
@toronto boy

How many universities offering ACCA tuitions and CFA tuition providers in Canada specially in ontario Toronto. Thanks for your nice input bro. Please keep in touch with all of us.

May God bless you
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11-20-2008, 12:55 AM
Post: #43
 
Hi Bilal

Sorry for delayed response.

I am providing some of the links for further research. I don't know much about tuition providers for ACCA or CFA in Canada. I think, most of the ACCA students prepare by self-study and mostly those students complete ACCA here who were already in ACCA program before coming to Canada. Still a fresh student can start ACCA here, but mostly, students prefer North American designations, unless they have some other long-term objectives.

CFA is very famous and well regarded here. CFA Toronto Chapter is among largest CFA societies and exam centres. So, assuming lot of resources would be available to study for CFA. Links I am providing are only for courses available in Toronto (a non-comprehensive list). Offcourse, other universities and institutes in other cities and provinces of Canada would also be offering preparatory courses.

For ACCA

http//canada.accaglobal.com/canada/students/students/local_info/education/providers

http//canada.accaglobal.com/canada/students/students/local_info/education/

http//canada.accaglobal.com/

http//canada.accaglobal.com/allnews/national/canada/2814932

For CFA
http//learn.utoronto.ca/bps/cfa.htm

http//www.yorku.ca/fineng/group1/faq.html

http//www.yorku.ca/web/futurestudents/programs/template.asp?id=316

http//www.ryersonfinance.com/view_pageadd.php?id=9

http//www.stalla.com/CFAToronto/display.cfm

http//www.schweser.com/index.php?country_code=38

http//www.torontocfa.ca/Content/NavigationMenu/Candidates/TorontoSocietyCourseOfferings/default.htm

I hope it helps.

Regards
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11-24-2008, 05:55 PM
Post: #44
 
Sorry for late replying
thats realy very helpful links and thanks for info. Bro could you explain about placement issues for CFA students are studying in these top uni or business school in canada?
And which uni/school you recommend for CFA studies in toronto area? just want your opinion

Regards
Take care bro
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11-25-2008, 02:46 AM
Post: #45
 
Hi Belal

First of all it should be considered whether a student is local Canadian student or international student. Canadian students face regular competition prevalent in job market. However, international students face much more problems to find jobs in Canada as usually they are not eligible for work, unless they have work visa. Due to this reason, first they face legal obstacle here, and secondly, employers do not prefer them as employers would have to apply and arrange work visa for international student.

Placement issues mainly come with completion of any certificate/ diploma/ degree etc. from Canadian institutions. But as far as completing preparatory courses for CFA from Canadian institute are concerned, objective is completion of CFA, in part or complete. So in my view, the completion of preparatory courses may not be helpful much in finding job, unless one successfully passes at-least a level of CFA. From securing job point of view, I would suggest, one should either complete a certificate/ diploma/ degree from Canadian institute, or otherwise, complete at-least a part of CFA.

All three universities I mentioned in my previous post are reputable. So, anyone can do the job. However, my personal views are little different. I am kind of self study person. I think, if a student has a degree in any of finance, economics, business, or accounting, he/she may go for self-study for CFA. He/she can get help from others if needed. However, if a student does not have a base degree, then this self-study option would be difficult. Eventually, if one needs a degree to have CFA charter, then why not first complete degree and then go for CFA. This is more secure option too, as if student does not pass CFA, even then at-least he has a degree to work. Also, if the objective is CFA, then compare the study cost of preparatory courses in Pakistan v/s. Canada. Again, personally, I would prefer to prepare in Pakistan if the cost is low. No teacher can “ghol kar pila sakta” to a student, no matter a student is in Pakistan or in Canada. It is all one’s personal efforts, and CFA is CFA, as far as curriculum is concerned, no matter one prepares for it in Pakistan or in Canada. However, work experience differ one charterholder from other, and from one part of the world to another.

Just my two cents…

Regards
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