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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 05 2005 :  12:17:04 AM  Show Profile
I have NOT posted this thread to create another heated argument over ACCA vs CA on this forum. (So plz cool down in advance.) Recently, one of our forum members (logicalbanda) asked whether one should do CA by:

Route 1: Doing CA-Inter (Module A to D)
& then giving Mod (E-F) papers from ICAP. OR

Route 2: Doing ACCA first (Thus, getting exemption from ICAP for CA-Inter (Mod A to D))
& then giving Mod (E-F) papers from ICAP.

The purpose of this thread is to constructively debate whether ONE should go for Route 1 or Route 2. In short, compare “ACCA with CA-Inter”. I know, we have already compared ACCA with CA extensively, but I think the comparison of CA-Inter with ACCA hasn’t been adequately done. So people, what do u think? Are ICAP (CA-Inter) papers, syllabuses & exam methods better than ACCA or vice-versa? Is the exemption provided by ICAP to ACCA’s fair? If not, then why?

And since, we are looking from the prospective of a person planning to do CA (ultimately): Does giving CA-Inter instead of ACCA help u in passing final ICAP (Mod E & F) exams? For example, are the tax & laws papers in CA-Inter tougher compared & more in-depth compared to ACCA-Pakistan variants? Similarly, does an ACCA (planning to do CA), get internship (training) in the big-4 firms easily? Or the big-4 prefer to hire CA-Inters instead of ACCA’s (who want to do CA too)? Are there any other implications? For example, do (ACCA + CA)’s get better starting salaries than simple CA’s?

I have just posted these questions to start the discussion & give it a direction. I hope u guys contribute & that no one resorts to mud throwing at ACCA’s or CA-Inters just becoz they have a certain qualification.

Cheeers,
AvgJoe

Edited by - AvgJoe on Feb 05 2005 4:38:04 PM

ali zeeshan
Junior

Pakistan
77 Posts

Posted - Feb 05 2005 :  4:05:36 PM  Show Profile  Send ali zeeshan a Yahoo! Message
hi,
Avgjoe, there is no comparison between ACCA and CA because both degrees are complete Acountancy degrees and have a certain level of study.

"You say you hate me,And i know that it is true,But why cant i stop thinking of you"
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 05 2005 :  4:34:11 PM  Show Profile
Hi Ali,

I didnt propose any comparison between ACCA & CA, coz I am well aware of the heated debate it caused in the career section of the forum.

If u read my post, I just proposed a comparison of ACCA with CA-Inter (Mod A to D) only for the sake of helping out logicalbanda & other forum members who WANT TO DO CA (ultimately) but are unsure about the stream they should choose i.e. whether they should do ACCA first or CA-Inter before doing CA (Mod E & F).
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ali4u3
Senior

Pakistan
348 Posts

Posted - Feb 06 2005 :  12:23:56 AM  Show Profile
hi ...avgjoe.......
i think both 4 routes are good...
exemptions provided my the ICAP to ACCA are not fair at all ...bcz an acca student have already learn each n every thing which a CA module E-F student learn....
and lets take a example...ACCA get exemption in whole CIMA except the core papers....and PK CA ki exemptions kamm hein...actually i cap is scared with ACCA...:)
i think after ACCA qualifing CA is much more easier then the route of CA inter
yes an ACCA can get internship in big 4 very easily

regrads

Never seek advice from a Chartered Accountant. They are trained to find problems not solutions.
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bilal azhar
Semi Senior

Pakistan
256 Posts

Posted - Feb 06 2005 :  8:39:37 PM  Show Profile
ali4u3,u should thank God that icap has exempted inter to acca students.i think that this should not be given.There is huge difference between Acca papers and CA inter papers.although acca students reads a lot more than ca inter,but inter is definitely by far more difficult than whole acca.

bilal
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ali4u3
Senior

Pakistan
348 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2005 :  12:32:34 PM  Show Profile
for u kind information i complted my CA inter then join ACCA..and i have the experience of both ..thts y i m saying this

Never seek advice from a Chartered Accountant. They are trained to find problems not solutions.
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  12:08:44 AM  Show Profile
Hi guys,

Calm down plz. Remember the purpose of this discussion is to constructively debate, so "please" bilal dont indulge in "mud-throwing". Lets be professionals. Thanks.

Ali4u3, so are u doing ACCA along with Mod-E & F rite now ?
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ali4u3
Senior

Pakistan
348 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  12:33:02 AM  Show Profile
yes dear..
:)

Never seek advice from a Chartered Accountant. They are trained to find problems not solutions.
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bilal azhar
Semi Senior

Pakistan
256 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  01:38:27 AM  Show Profile
i am also doing ca inter and are just one paper(IT) away from completing it.i have prepared one or two papers of icap like cost accounting,IT etc from acca past papers and its book and i found acca far more easier than ca inter.Thats way i am saying this.

i did not intentionally indulge in mud-throwing but i seems that Ali4u3 has mind it so please Ali sorry for that.

bilal
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ali4u3
Senior

Pakistan
348 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  09:44:09 AM  Show Profile
no dear mind kernay ki ais mai koun si baat hai \we all are here to share our views..
regrds..

Never seek advice from a Chartered Accountant. They are trained to find problems not solutions.
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  5:19:40 PM  Show Profile
quote:

exemptions provided my the ICAP to ACCA are not fair at all ...bcz an acca student have already learn each n every thing which a CA module E-F student learn....



Hi Ali,

Are u saying that ICAP should provide even more exemptions to ACCA's? And that most of what a student learns in Mod E-F is covered already by ACCA?

This seems very suprising to me, considering u did CA-Inter. As most Ca-Inter students mock ACCA in every way they can. OR did I get it all wrong?

Take Care
AvgJoe
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  5:27:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by bilal azhar

ali4u3,u should thank God that icap has exempted inter to acca students.i think that this should not be given.There is huge difference between Acca papers and CA inter papers.although acca students reads a lot more than ca inter,but inter is definitely by far more difficult than whole acca.

bilal



I have noticed that Students form the ICAP group have a much more aggressive attitude towards ACCA.. saying some childish remarks, some say ACCA is very easier than ACA, the above mentioned Statement from Mr Bilal is an Excellent Example of this rigid attitude. Actually i was really surprised to see that comment, its childish and the person must be unaware and must be living in a fools paradise to say the above mentioned statement.

quote:
am also doing ca inter and are just one paper(IT) away from completing it.i have prepared one or two papers of icap like cost accounting,IT etc from acca past papers and its book and i found acca far more easier than ca inter.Thats way i am saying this.

i did not intentionally indulge in mud-throwing but i seems that Ali4u3 has mind it so please Ali sorry for that.

I think its safe to expect that when members talk, they talk solid (backed by evidence) otherwise keep quite and don’t disclose their lack of knowledge

Your opinions all seem to be based on your pre-conception alongside other bland- ideas. What you have displayed here is not in any way correct, the only thing you have shown me, personally, is that you yourself are the uneducated one. Anyone with proper education does not need to slander other people for their beliefs in order to win an arguement.

Here is a link of the paper of Management Accounting of Module F of ICAP.
http://www.icaponline.net/DownLoads/Win04_Papers/MAC.pdf

And plz visit this link to Compare the above paper with the paper Number 2.4(Financial Management and Control) of ACCA.
http://www.accaglobal.com/students/professionalscheme/paper2_4/pastpapers/2-4_2004_jun_q.pdf

Rest is up to you all to consider.

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If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!

Edited by - Desert Sleet on Feb 08 2005 5:31:26 PM
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logicalbanda
Unregistered Trainee

Pakistan
11 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  5:28:02 PM  Show Profile
asalam o alaikum
i also posted this type of topic earlier but i didnot recieve valuable suggestions.
i have now seen so much debate on this topic but still i m not sure what is better ca inter or acca
noone is clearly saying wat is better
so pls clearly write what is better
ca inter or acca
and then go into complications
and thanks avgjoe for further helping me by posting this topic

thanks Allah hafiz
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  5:31:11 PM  Show Profile
quote:

i am also doing ca inter and are just one paper(IT) away from completing it.i have prepared one or two papers of icap like cost accounting,IT etc from acca past papers and its book and i found acca far more easier than ca inter.Thats way i am saying this.



What do other forum members say? Does everyone agree that ACCA papers are easier than CA-Inter papers? Ali what about u ?

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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  5:32:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Sleet

quote:
Originally posted by bilal azhar

ali4u3,u should thank God that icap has exempted inter to acca students.i think that this should not be given.There is huge difference between Acca papers and CA inter papers.although acca students reads a lot more than ca inter,but inter is definitely by far more difficult than whole acca.

bilal



I have noticed that Students form the ICAP group have a much more aggressive attitude towards ACCA.. saying some childish remarks, some say ACCA is very easier than ACA, the above mentioned Statement from Mr Bilal is an Excellent Example of this rigid attitude. Actually i was really surprised to see that comment, its childish and the person must be unaware and must be living in a fools paradise to say the above mentioned statement.

quote:
am also doing ca inter and are just one paper(IT) away from completing it.i have prepared one or two papers of icap like cost accounting,IT etc from acca past papers and its book and i found acca far more easier than ca inter.Thats way i am saying this.

i did not intentionally indulge in mud-throwing but i seems that Ali4u3 has mind it so please Ali sorry for that.

I think its safe to expect that when members talk, they talk solid (backed by evidence) otherwise keep quite and don’t disclose their lack of knowledge

Your opinions all seem to be based on your pre-conception alongside other bland- ideas. What you have displayed here is not in any way correct, the only thing you have shown me, personally, is that you yourself are the uneducated one. Anyone with proper education does not need to slander other people for their beliefs in order to win an arguement.

Here is a link of the paper of Management Accounting of Module F of ICAP.
http://www.icaponline.net/DownLoads/Win04_Papers/MAC.pdf

And plz visit this link to Compare the above paper with the paper Number 2.4(Financial Management and Control) of ACCA.
http://www.accaglobal.com/students/professionalscheme/paper2_4/pastpapers/2-4_2004_jun_q.pdf

Rest is up to you all to consider.

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If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!




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If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  5:46:18 PM  Show Profile
I was sure this topic was going to generate some friction. Thats why, I posted right in the start that "please" dont mock any qualification. Some of us have the letters "ACCA" or "CA-Inter" "CA" "FCA" etc alongside our names & it gets personal if someone mocks a qualification, which comes after our name & for which we have worked so hard. In life, there are several occasions where we have to say what we want in a "milder" way so that the same message is conveyed without personally targeting anyone. This is an excellent quality, which will help u throughout ur life. I again request the forum members to practice it when debating on a public forum & especially on a volatile topic like this. If u beleive that ACCA is easier than CA or vice-versa than please present us with logical arguments. Please dont indulge in mocking a qualification or worse SOMEONE ! Thanks !
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  6:05:10 PM  Show Profile
Hi Desert sleet,

Thanks for providing us with the links. What do other forum members say now after comparing the two papers pointed out by Desert sleet? Is ACCA paper 2.4 more difficult or ICAP's Mod-F paper ?

Desert Sleet, what (in ur opinion) is the standing of ACCA compared to ICAEW's ACA in the UK ? And what exemptions does ICAEW give to ACCA's?

Cheeers
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  6:11:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by AvgJoe

The purpose of this thread is to constructively debate whether ONE should go for Route 1 or Route 2.

Here it will be much better if we could define Debate.

I view debate as a tool to persuade others to see your view, not simply argue.

The goal of debate should be to successfully get people to embrace your position, or at least to get them to question their own position by casting doubt. This is not accomplished by insulting the opposition by telling them they are ignorant, illogical or whatever other insults usually resorted to. Doing so will not achieve the goal because it will push your opposition farther away.

Sometimes it's more important to understand the opposition. For instance, if someone is intereted in winning over opposition on a point that is strongly resisted, it's a good idea to approach debate carefully to not offend. You can't get people to embrace your position if you are insulting or ramming it down their throats.


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If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  6:37:00 PM  Show Profile
Hi Desert Sleet,

According to the Oxford Advanced Learners English Dictionary, the word "debate" means:

1) (noun) A formal discussion of an issue at a public meeting or in a parliament. In a debate two or more speakers express opposing views and then there is often a vote on the issue
2)(noun) An argument or discussion expressing different opinions.

My definition of "debate" is quite close to the ones stated above And as pointed by u, it is definitely NOT:

quote:

...insulting the opposition by telling them they are ignorant, illogical or whatever other insults usually resorted to..



Thus desert sleet, if someone is trying to make u embrace their position by "insulting u or raming it down ur throat" it makes no sense for u to do the same. Yes, some forum members have posted offending & childish remarks regarding ACCA but that doesnt mean u do the same. If u do the same, what will be the difference between u & them? Bilal has already apologized for making that statement. Hence, please cool down, relax & dont take this all personally. Also, please contribute further & dont just get offended by these messages.

I would ONCE again ask all forum members posting on this topic to get back on track. And not to post any messages which deviate significantly from the topic & target other people specifically. If someone has targeted u, than plz can u try to show a bigger heart by forgiving? I am sure everyone will respect you for doing so.
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bilal azhar
Semi Senior

Pakistan
256 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2005 :  6:53:37 PM  Show Profile
IF acca students have read all the syllubus of MOdule E AND F then it doesnot mean that they should be exempted from some of the e and f papers.Most of the syllubus of ca inter is just like the syllubus that b.com students study so they should also be exempted from ca inter papers.

As far as comparing of the papers is concerned by comparing just one paper is not fair.A paper which has choice,no questions asked outside the Acca foulks Lynch book,and only 40-50 passing ratio cannot be equal to a ca paper which has no choice,only 40-50 percent paper will be from the prescribed book,50% passing ratio and if u get a D grade in other paper then u are fail in passing paper as well.

bilal
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 09 2005 :  12:22:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by bilal azhar

IF acca students have read all the syllubus of MOdule E AND F then it doesnot mean that they should be exempted from some of the e and f papers.Most of the syllubus of ca inter is just like the syllubus that b.com students study so they should also be exempted from ca inter papers.

As far as comparing of the papers is concerned by comparing just one paper is not fair.A paper which has choice,no questions asked outside the Acca foulks Lynch book,and only 40-50 passing ratio cannot be equal to a ca paper which has no choice,only 40-50 percent paper will be from the prescribed book,50% passing ratio and if u get a D grade in other paper then u are fail in passing paper as well.

bilal



Bilal, I find it interesting that you can't use debate as an equalizer if your theories and points of view hold water. Isn't running away from debate, kind of raising the flag that you may not have ground to stand on if you are proven wrong repeatedly?

You likes to start a debate with opinion, and call it fact since it came from ur mouth. I would like to think Bilal, if you want to debate FACTS, you should give a link to a place where YOUR facts could be referenced by readers who wish to participate in the debate.

Debating you is impossible. Your last post, describe exactly why. You are detached from reality. You have no concept of mutual respect(of qualifications)being somewhat essential to good debate. You ignore facts, and still try to cling to your theories even though THEY ARE BASELESS.



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If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!
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bilal azhar
Semi Senior

Pakistan
256 Posts

Posted - Feb 09 2005 :  01:25:23 AM  Show Profile
Good debate Desert but fact is fact."SACH to Karva hi hota ha".I Presented the fact by comparing acca and ca papers.stop this nonsense talk about the word Debate and come to the point.Prove me wrong by presenting reality.prove that acca paper is tougher than ca inter paper.
I dont disrespect any qualification,infact i have planned to do acca after completing my ca inter but fact is fact.u cant deny facts and the fact is that ca paper is far far more difficult than acca paper.

bilal
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 09 2005 :  1:50:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by bilal azhar

Good debate Desert but fact is fact."SACH to Karva hi hota ha".I Presented the fact by comparing acca and ca papers.stop this nonsense talk about the word Debate and come to the point.Prove me wrong by presenting reality.prove that acca paper is tougher than ca inter paper.
I dont disrespect any qualification,infact i have planned to do acca after completing my ca inter but fact is fact.u cant deny facts and the fact is that ca paper is far far more difficult than acca paper.

bilal

Thus the whining and crying continues, ad nauseum. Give it up, Bilal. You're not raising anybody's blood pressure here, you're just infantile by ANYONE'S standards. Like the little kid who wants to play with the big kids, you're just a little nuisance.And you Bilal STILL haven't answered my question.


quote:
Here is a link of the paper of Management Accounting of Module F of ICAP.
http://www.icaponline.net/DownLoads/Win04_Papers/MAC.pdf

And plz visit this link to Compare the above paper with the paper Number 2.4(Financial Management and Control) of ACCA.
http://www.accaglobal.com/students/professionalscheme/paper2_4/pastpapers/2-4_2004_jun_q.pdf

Rest is up to you all to consider.


Plz keep into mind that i am comparing Mod F paper with Acca level 2 paper.Not with 3.3 or 3.7 (level 3 papers). As far as the comparison of CA inter goes with ACCA the Financial Accounting of Ca inter in Just alike 1.1 and Management Accounting is eqvilant to 1.2. The difference lies in the Passing Creteria and Syllabes Pattern. Acca unlike CA, has a very well Structured Syllabes and a Good Checking System hich also provides u with marks likewise enabling you to evaluate your performance against a specific expected standard. Remember that the passing creteria of both the Examinations is 50%.

quote:
As far as comparing of the papers is concerned by comparing just one paper is not fair.A paper which has choice,no questions asked outside the Acca foulks Lynch book,and only 40-50 passing ratio cannot be equal to a ca paper which has no choice,only 40-50 percent paper will be from the prescribed book,50% passing ratio and if u get a D grade in other paper then u are fail in passing paper as well.

Bilal


If your theories hold water than plz Proove them.

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If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 09 2005 :  6:53:43 PM  Show Profile
Dear Desert & Bilal,

I would again request both of u to NOT get personal & not to attack EACH OTHER instead of "comparing the two qualifications" in a unbiased & un-personal way. Thanks !

quote:

I Presented the fact by comparing acca and ca papers.stop this nonsense talk about the word Debate and come to the point.Prove me wrong by presenting reality.prove that acca paper is tougher than ca inter paper.



Bilal, I understand that during ur self-study u compared the papers of CA-Inter & ACCA and found ACCA papers to be easier. Everyone can have different views & many people would disagree with ur statement. I suggest u give us the links to the papers u compared & then the forum members can compare them themselves. Desert sleet has already tried to prove that ACCA papers are tougher than CA (Mod-F) papers by providind links to 2 of them & letting u compare them urself. Do u agree that the ACCA paper he has pointed out is tougher than CA (Mod-F) paper ?

quote:

you're just infantile by ANYONE'S standards. Like the little kid who wants to play with the big kids, you're just a little nuisance.



Dear Cheema Sahib, I admire u for taking so much time out for us to post on this forum & increasing our knowledge. But in the past we have lost a lot of forum members (like Pracs, Ehrar, Azeem Khan sahib etc) just because things got out of control on the forum & the members started personally assaulting each other. I am sure the forum members dont want that to happen again. I would thus request u to please drop the PERSONAL argument with Bilal & not post such remarks about him. I hope u would consider my request & would not feel offended by it. If u do, then I sincerely apologize. Thanks

Cheers
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bilal azhar
Semi Senior

Pakistan
256 Posts

Posted - Feb 09 2005 :  7:07:39 PM  Show Profile
Avg joe if i starts creating links then i think i will have to create more than 50 links.people who want to compare both papers can go to ca and acca website and download the papers of any subject.e.g go to their site and compare the paper of IT of module D with paper 2.1 of acca of any attempt from the last two years and u will see the huge difference.
And this man Desert sleet instead of discussing the topic is getting personal.it is quite obvious that he doesnot know what to write as far as comparing the papers are concerned,so he is showing his family background.

bilal
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 09 2005 :  7:20:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
AvgJoe actually i have qualified both ICAEW and ACCA. Here i am actually acting as an "Devils Advocate"... Challenging the ideas and theories of other people with countless arguments. Actually i was also a bit shocked as most of the people of ICAP were just Looking Down upon ACCA's. I actually researched a bit and compared the Past Papers Of ACCA and ICAP and found ACCA papers equally tough.

Actually this is not even an issue of ACCA versus ACA. This is an issue of people not being able to argue unless the other ideology is the minority, or without the other side being non-existent. I want all sides to participate. If you make good arguments and avoid flame-baiting, and resorting to these ideological labels, then you might actually get somewhere here.
quote:
Avg joe if i starts creating links then i think i will have to create more than 50 links.people who want to compare both papers can go to ca and acca website and download the papers of any subject.e.g go to their site and compare the paper of IT of module D with paper 2.1 of acca of any attempt from the last two years and u will see the huge difference.
And this man Desert sleet instead of discussing the topic is getting personal.it is quite obvious that he doesnot know what to write as far as comparing the papers are concerned,so he is showing his family background.

bilal


Bilal you don't balance the forum out by separating yourselves further from people you do not agree with. You challenge them, and do so properly, with sources, and logic. If they don't respond in a similar fashion then you tell me, and we try to resolve it.

I communicate with all people who are reported/reporters. We can resolve personal issues through the E-mail system. The user either takes the hint, smiles at me in the message and continues like a fool, or gives me lip for suggesting a little civility. The choices made at this stage help me determine if they can offer anything of value to the forum.

Value to me is intelligent posting. I want to see members who can wipe the floor with some of the people, and vise-versa. I want people who have done their homework, know how to present their arguments so all can participate, and never take any of this personal. I'll do what it takes to get as close as I can to that model.

If i did hurt someone then i must apologize.
quote:
it is quite obvious that he doesnot know what to write as far as comparing the papers are concerned,so he is showing his family background.

bilal

Thanks for the subtle insult. I had already concluded that there is no real point in arguing with you anymore cause you and I will just butt heads on the issue. Resorting to such family insults only reflects your mentality.
quote:
you're just infantile by ANYONE'S standards. Like the little kid who wants to play with the big kids, you're just a little nuisance

You are right AvgJoe, it was an insult that I shouldn't have made, and for that I apologize. I think you can see that this debate affects me personally on many levels. Again, I apologize. In my defense though, I still say that the reply which Bilal gave me that provoked that statement, was not intelligent debate material as much as it was meant to paint a mental picture of what you despise about ACCA.





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If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!

Edited by - Desert Sleet on Feb 09 2005 7:39:34 PM
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 10 2005 :  04:32:09 AM  Show Profile
Hi Desert,
Its nice to see that u have finally dropped the personal argument with Bilal. Thanks

quote:

And this man Desert sleet instead of discussing the topic is getting personal.it is quite obvious that he doesnot know what to write as far as comparing the papers are concerned,so he is showing his family background.


Dear Bilal, even I am getting tired now by requesting u people to calm down again and again. "Please", lets be professionals, show a bigger heart & forget it all.

Coming back to the topic, Bilal says that CA-Inter Mod-D IT paper is more difficult than ACCA 2.1 paper.

Well, here is the Dec 04 paper of ACCA 2.1:
http://www.accaglobal.com/students/professionalscheme/paper2_1/pastpapers/2297264
And here is the CA-Inter Mod-D paper of IT:
http://www.icap.org.pk/Downloads/PastPapers/Intermediate/Autumn2004.zip

Personally, I dont think comparing a MOD-D paper with 2.1 is fair. An ACCA student studies for 2.1 in the first part of his studies (i.e. when a CA-Inter student is studying for Mod-A). Hence, I would say that it would be more "fair" to compare the 2.1 paper with CA-Inter's Mod-B IT exam. Here's the link:
http://www.icap.org.pk/Downloads/PastPapers/Foundation/Autumn%202004.zip

So guys, which papers do u find more difficult? CA-Inter papers or ACCA papers in this regard ?

Edited by - AvgJoe on Feb 10 2005 04:37:16 AM
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Mr. Whappaaaa
Semi Senior

Pakistan
215 Posts

Posted - Feb 10 2005 :  11:18:25 PM  Show Profile
HI JOE:

Saw the good discussion after some days again the burning topic based on Whole ACCA vs CA Foundation. Yaar, Joe actually there is no such a huge comparision b/w ACCA & CA module A to D. Each organization( ICAP & ACCA) has its own style of preparing papers we could not discriminate both papers due to some expertise availability( obviously ACCA has more power, resources, research methods etc. for the preparation of papers than ICAP) & some technological impact thats why ACCA has been maintaining lots of flexibility in his papers preparation. Now come to the topic, in a last few minutes i visited the site of ICAP and see some past question papers( Specially Audit paper) and i have concluded that.... If you see the Scanerio based questions of ACCA level three & CA foundation then ACCA papers( especially level 3) are technically more advanced, competent & knowledge based. So it is quite unfair to compare Foundation With ACCA level three papers .... Now the only thing comes to make some plus points is of the passing criteria of ICAP papers in foundation level...... I think we could not compare Foundation to ACCA level three. See the past papers OF ACCA paper 3.1 .....and then compare to module D paper of ICAP..... its bit different ....

Think this topic is going from the situation CA foundation Vs ACCA level three.....????

REGARDS:





ASIF ALI
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 10 2005 :  11:58:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Whappaaaa

HI JOE:

Saw the good discussion after some days again the burning topic based on Whole ACCA vs CA Foundation. Yaar, Joe actually there is no such a huge comparision b/w ACCA & CA module A to D. Each organization( ICAP & ACCA) has its own style of preparing papers we could not discriminate both papers due to some expertise availability( obviously ACCA has more power, resources, research methods etc. for the preparation of papers than ICAP) & some technological impact thats why ACCA has been maintaining lots of flexibility in his papers preparation. Now come to the topic, in a last few minutes i visited the site of ICAP and see some past question papers( Specially Audit paper) and i have concluded that.... If you see the Scanerio based questions of ACCA level three & CA foundation then ACCA papers( especially level 3) are technically more advanced, competent & knowledge based. So it is quite unfair to compare Foundation With ACCA level three papers .... Now the only thing comes to make some plus points is of the passing criteria of ICAP papers in foundation level...... I think we could not compare Foundation to ACCA level three. See the past papers OF ACCA paper 3.1 .....and then compare to module D paper of ICAP..... its bit different ....

Think this topic is going from the situation CA foundation Vs ACCA level three.....????

REGARDS:





ASIF ALI


Heh.. that'd be an alliance out of pure desperation.
gotta have a buddy to back up some arguments.



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If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!
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bilal azhar
Semi Senior

Pakistan
256 Posts

Posted - Feb 11 2005 :  02:58:58 AM  Show Profile
AVG joe the course of IT of module D AND paper 2.1 of acca is same except one topic of Excel in mod D.SO leave aside that question and compare the two papers.This is only one paper.u can see all the papers from the last two years.

bilal
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inam_satti
Unregistered Trainee

14 Posts

Posted - Feb 11 2005 :  06:27:48 AM  Show Profile
hi i m ahsan satti!!!!!!!!
as v compare acca with ca inter v find that acca is conceptual hard work as well as the western waywhereas in ca u just need good hard work n plenty of confidence morover,acca studdy material is much more advanced n conceptual than ca<i kan tell coz i hav taught both>.
u kan dodge ur way 2 success in ca xams<trust me i hav seen it> by inventing some standard solution tactics but you cant in acca.
in fact i hav taught mis on masters level 2 cas,icmas,accas but solving the mis case study< applying knowledge on acca scenario> really really freaks me out man
so i recommend the acca route as it has a lot of spice 2 beat a students bitch ass 2 death

jind rahi tay aan millan gay
ahsan satti
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cyberking
Unregistered Trainee

Pakistan
4 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2005 :  01:04:22 AM  Show Profile
hey ppl booth routes r good
in my opinion if u have done a-level then i will suggest u acca because u get a complete certification beside ur prim. goal e.g c.a.
however if u have done inter. then u can go for any option but consider the following factors :
1)Acca is more expensive then c.A
2)passsing rate in c.a inter is less ten ACCA
3)renowned firms prefer c.a inter.
4)in case of ACCA u r getting extra certification.
5)u get degree as well with ACCA.
this is posted by a student of mod.d

King rules the dynasty.
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ali zeeshan
Junior

Pakistan
77 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2005 :  10:41:35 AM  Show Profile  Send ali zeeshan a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by cyberking

hey ppl booth routes r good
in my opinion if u have done a-level then i will suggest u acca because u get a complete certification beside ur prim. goal e.g c.a.
however if u have done inter. then u can go for any option but consider the following factors :
1)Acca is more expensive then c.A
2)passsing rate in c.a inter is less ten ACCA
3)renowned firms prefer c.a inter.
4)in case of ACCA u r getting extra certification.
5)u get degree as well with ACCA.
this is posted by a student of mod.d

King rules the dynasty.


well u r quite right but the 3rd point isn't right my friends couson is also ACCA qualified and he is doing Article in Ford Rhods and many of his friends also there

-------------------------
"You say you hate me,And i know that it is true,But why cant i stop thinking of you"
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2005 :  1:39:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by bilal azhar

AVG joe the course of IT of module D AND paper 2.1 of acca is same except one topic of Excel in mod D.SO leave aside that question and compare the two papers.This is only one paper.u can see all the papers from the last two years.

bilal


Except on resorting to such lame excuses u should first check out the main work in which a Chartered/Certified Accountant is mainly involved in. So compare the papers of
Management Accounting of ACCA(3.7) and ICAP(F 18)
Financial Reporting of ACCA (3.6) and ICAP (E 15)
Advanced Auditing of ACCA (3.1) and ICAP (F 21)
Business Management of ACCA (3.5) and ICAP (E 17)
Advanced Taxation of ACCA (3.2) and ICAP (F 20)

Ur Comments on the papers are welcomed in Advance.



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Azeem Shah Khan
Manager

United Kingdom
706 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2005 :  5:27:43 PM  Show Profile
Hi all

Thanks for the concern AvgJoe, i am/was stuck up with work and to be honest a little bit disappointed with some of the members and their irresponsible posts, a good/bad news for some members - I am BACK

I dont know much about the difference b/w ICAP inter-level papers and ACCA papers as such it won't be fair if i comment on it. I would rather comment on the attitude of some members who try to be what i call 'over-smart' and sadly one of those members is Mr Bilal Azhar. I wouldn't have bothered writing here if I knew his attitude is not a deliberate mistake.

I think Desert Sleet's response to his irresponsible comments is fair and there should be someone checking guys like him, I did the same some time back in ACCA Vs CA thread.

Few weeks ago I had a one to one discussion with Mr Bilal where my replies were very soft assuming Mr Bilal Azhar's childish attitude - as ignorance. With reference to the topic all I can tell him is that preparing from ACCA books and actually appearing in exams are not the same. I would like to quote your words you once said to me "Its easier said than done"

For all of you guys who didnt get a chance to read the conversation between the two of us:


1. Originally posted by Mr Bilal Azhar:

quote:
i dont think its a good idea to issue marks once u have passed a paper.Professional degree is not achieved by mishap or luck.if u are pass than pass,no need to tell how many marks have u achieved.
Icap follows this and never issue marks to students who have passed.
if marks are allocated,then definitely employer will look at them and student with more marks will definitely be prefered.it just like,if u get 700 marks in F.A/F.S.C only then u can expect to get an admission in GC AND if u passed FA with 500 marks then no need to apply.

bilal


1. My reply:

quote:
Dear bilal

if i agree with the above then one question comes in my mind WHY does ICAP bother to publish GRADES like A, B ,C temp or permanent exemptions and why is it switching to a more LOGICAL examination system of publishing the marks. i do agree that no qualifications comes in fluke, one has to work really hard but the later part is a bit doubtful. if an institute follows a crystal clear Examination System then why not publish the marks which can be of great guidance to students who fail marginally, they would know how close they were.
this will also decline all the allegations of QUOTA or Market based result system by ICAP. as regards the employers asking for the individual marks attained in particular subjects, i dont think any employer asks such a ridiculous question specially if he or she is a professional interviewing another professional.

kind regards




2. Originally posted by Mr Bilal Azhar:

quote:
ICAP is not moving to a new grading or marking system.it has only declared publicaly that passing criteria for all papers is 50 percent.other than that there will be no change.no marks will be issued to candidates and no grades will be given to students who pass the exams.50 percent ratio is only declared to enable the failing or refered students to assess their performance.some students defame icap after failing by saying that they attempted all the paper correctly and yet they failed.
secondly,if according to u no employer ask this ridiculous question of total percentage,then whats the reason to issue marks to those students who passes the exams(ACCA).thats where the difference lies between icap and acca authorities and that is why there is no match between an ACA and an ACCA in pakistan.I dont think there is a single professional employer in pakistan who would prefer ACCA over ACA.IT does not make any sense to study TAX,LAW,AND accounting standards of england sitting in pakistan.

bilal


2 My reply

quote:
Dear Bilal

thanks for correcting me. So ICAP is still using the same outdated system. Whats the point declaring the 50 marks Pass or Fail criteria when the individual marks are not published.

Issuing marks to Pass candidates may encourage them to do even better at higher levels plus it may also motivate them to SPECIALISE in that particular subject. ACCA believes (and rightly so) that its examination system is CRYSTAL CLEAR thats why they publish individual marks. ICAP can do the same to prevent students defaming its examination systems credibility.

i am afraid thats not the distinction between the two institutes, in Pakistan there are multiple factors and YES one of the reasons is the fact that ACCA grads study UK variants. ACCA has now offered Pakistan variant for Pakistani students and I am sure within no time such unrealistic distinctions will vanish away.

Kind Regards




3. Originally posted by Mr Bilal Azhar:

quote:
i told u that the only reason to declare this 50 percent criteria is to rectify the perception of the students and the general public that icap doen not pass even those students who get 70 percent marks in a without choice difficult paper.
As far as specilization is concerned,once u pass papers like Advanced accounting,advanced auditing,corporate law,advanced taxation,management accounting etc of icap i can assure u with guarantee that ur knowledge is equal to,if not greater,to a person who has a phd degree in any of the above subjects.i mean,if u have studied all the IAS AND ISA and all the corporate laws,what else left to be read.

bilal



3. My reply:

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i told u that the only reason to declare this 50 percent criteria is to rectify the perception of the students and the general public that icap doen not pass even those students who get 70 percent marks in a without choice difficult paper.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Dear Bilal

I think you are missing the point i am trying to make. ICAP can still fail a student who gets 70% marks unless it publishes the individual marks. For eg I appeared in an exam and after considering individual questions and my answers to them I believe that i should get around 60-65 marks, but when the result comes i see my name in the list of failures, i have no idea how can i be given less than 50 marks in that particular paper but since i have not been given the exact marks i will keep on repeating the same old story that ICAP's examination system is flawed.

i was a student of ACCA, i m telling you the truth when i used to come out of the examination hall i always knew straightaway if i have passed the paper or not, and to my surprise my marks were always within a deviation of + or - 5, now this is what i call a CRYSTAL CLEAR system and i see no harm adopting this system where i (being a student) have full confidence on my Institute. i have no fear in my heart that no matter how much i study i might be failed just because of the market pressure.

now ask yourself and your fellow students (if you are/were a student of ICAP) doesn't this fear exist in their hearts??? it does.......

now let me tell you another story. i am an ex-student of ICMAP. i passed upto Professional 2 in first go except 1 paper which was FINANCIAL ACCOUNTING in Foundation 2. i got referral in that paper. you know what bilal, i was expecting a permanent exemption in that paper, financial accounting has always been my strong point and i always scored flying numbers in financial accounting. My elder brother is an ACMA, he sometimes used to discuss my paper with me (as we were allowed to take the question papers with us), he was also damn sure that i haven't done any blunder in that paper and i should be able to score atleast 80 in that paper........sadly i sat that paper again and although i didn't do better this time i got a PERMANENT EXEMPTION. I am sure you would have heard similar stories from other students as well. My self-analysis could be wrong that time but why it always proved correct in ACCA.......




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as specilization is concerned,once u pass papers like Advanced accounting,advanced auditing,corporate law,advanced taxation,management accounting etc of icap i can assure u with guarantee that ur knowledge is equal to,if not greater,to a person who has a phd degree in any of the above subjects.i mean,if u have studied all the IAS AND ISA and all the corporate laws,what else left to be read.

bilal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




my dear friend,

my normal reaction to such statements is usually very strong (and harsh for some people), since i have made a new year resolution to become a better human being and after being pointed out by some of the members here to curtail my aggression, i would only suggest you to please come out from this FANTASY WORLD.........i won't say no more and click the "post new reply" icon as it is best in OUR favour.

Please keep your assurance and guarantee with yourself, it is surely gonna help you out in future!!!

i wish you & ICAP all the best

kind regards




4. Originally posted by Mr Bilal Azhar:

quote:
Dear Azeem,just for ur information i am a student of Module D of CA.i got a refer in IT of module D in last attempt.i have cleared the rest of 12 papers of CA inter.I got refer in M.LAW,and IT so far.
Icap never ever fails a student having 60-65 marks.if thats the case then i am fail in all other twelve papers as well.The passing percentage according to those who have qualified(some of my teacher)is even less than 50.i knew that in some of my papers like economics,cost accounting,IT1, my marks would be, at the most, around
45-55 marks and yet i got passed.
THE main reason of issuing this 50 percent ratio was that poeple like u cry after failing and instead of blaming themselves,blame the icap.THE PAPers in which i got refer,my marks were definitely below 45.your estimate of 60-65 marks is based on ur own judgement. The solution of icap questions is usually not the one we think it is.

LAstly,ur statements are contradicting.own one hand u say that employer dont see marks percentage once u have acca degree,they only see aptitude,knowledge etc and on the other hand u say that marks can be used to speclize in particular subject.speclization can be done in ACCA PASSED papers but once u have passed ca no speclization is required.e.g if u have passed corporate law paper of module E,it means u have studied the whole ordinance,its rules,and there are round about 10 or more laws in this paper.after going through all this what further u can study ,i just dont know.

ur are senior than me,so dont mind to be harsh.one advice(although i am not capable of it) to u is "not to say or comment on any thing u dont know". i am sure the above post would make u angry and i am expecting a very harsh reply.

bilal



4. My reply:

quote:
my dear friend



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ur are senior than me,so dont mind to be harsh.one advice(although i am not capable of it) to u is "not to say or comment on any thing u dont know". i am sure the above post would make u angry and i am expecting a very harsh reply.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



thanks for considering me a senior and many thanks for the advise, you are indeed capable of giving advise. no i m not going for a harsh route this time as i do it for people who try to be over smart. i dont like to comment on something i dont know and infact i thanked you in my earlier post for correcting me.

i was commenting on the exam result systems of diff accounting bodies and my emphasis was on ICAP, ICMAP and ACCA. you corrected me on ICAP and i know ICMAP and ACCA's exam results policy, i dont see anything wrong commenting on it.




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAstly,ur statements are contradicting.own one hand u say that employer dont see marks percentage once u have acca degree,they only see aptitude,knowledge etc and on the other hand u say that marks can be used to speclize in particular subject.speclization can be done in ACCA PASSED papers but once u have passed ca no speclization is required.e.g if u have passed corporate law paper of module E,it means u have studied the whole ordinance,its rules,and there are round about 10 or more laws in this paper.after going through all this what further u can study ,i just dont know.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



so you are trying to say that CA is the ULTIMATE qualification, once you do CA you become a MASTER of ALL since you can't see any area left behind. bilal i would strongly recommend you not to say this thing to anyone. i always thought all those qualifications like CTA (Chartered Tax Adviser), CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst), PhDs in individual subjects are there for a purpose but NOW after knowing the fact that all i want is to become a CA and i will master everything has completely changed my mind........thanks for your insight.........you definitely deserve to comment on things you know.......(i hope you were just kidding when you said after ACCA PASSED papers you need specialisation and after CA you dont.....you are trying to be over smart.........so be careful!!!)

i am still trying to find where i CONTRADICTED my own statements. Yes i did say employers are more interested in what a CANDIDATE knows than his/her exam marks, and Yes i also said that marks can motivate candidates to specialise in those subjects (assuming they get higher marks because of their interest in those subjects and their natural inclination)...........WHERE IS THE CONTRADICTION???
in first statement i am talking about the employers perception about the candidate in the later statement i am discussing the psychological effect the exam marks can have on students' careers......once again WHERE IS THE CONTRADICTION???


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Icap never ever fails a student having 60-65 marks.if thats the case then i am fail in all other twelve papers as well.The passing percentage according to those who have qualified(some of my teacher)is even less than 50.i knew that in some of my papers like economics,cost accounting,IT1, my marks would be, at the most, around
45-55 marks and yet i got passed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



now i won't say you are contradicting your statements here, rather i would say you are supporting my point of view. by reading the above statement we can surely say that ICAP's exam system is not JUST. although they say that they have a 50% pass criteria but in reality it is much below that (something NOT to be proud of). Now how you are supporting my point, you said you were expecting your marks between 45-55 and yet you passed that paper leaving you in doubt whether you got over 50 or under 50, presumably you got over 50 thats why you passed but even then it left a doubt thats why you mentioned it here and thats the point i was trying to make earlier that publishing marks DONOT leave any doubt and give students the much needed confidence in the fairness of the system.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE main reason of issuing this 50 percent ratio was that poeple like u cry after failing and instead of blaming themselves,blame the icap.THE PAPers in which i got refer,my marks were definitely below 45.your estimate of 60-65 marks is based on ur own judgement. The solution of icap questions is usually not the one we think it is.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



i was never a student of ICAP!!! so there is no question of crying about it. the only paper i REFERRED (not failed) was of ICMAP's where SURPRISINGLY my answers were not TOO different from my brother's and my LECTURER's explanations to that paper and there was no question about 60-65 marks - i was expecting over 80. this is a mystery for me how on earth i could be referred in that paper.........i may be wrong in my assessment but this could only be verified had i be given my marks. secondly my assessments never went wrong in ACCA!!!

hope this will clear some of my points, i am glad to know you have almost completed your CA Inter and i wish you all the best for your future exams.


Best Regards



"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2005 :  6:45:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
Azeem u are good at narrating. But perhaps you should copy/paste the quote into word and then compose your reply there. Then copy/paste it back into your browser and use the "Preview Post" to examine what you have. Repeat as needed.

1) I agree with ur style of discussion. If people insult others intelligence by making dishonest or stupid posts then they have already broken the pact of civility. I usually let them get away with it once or twice and letting them know that they are being dishonest. If they persist well then they get as good as they give.

Posted By Bilal to Azeem
quote:
LAstly,ur statements are contradicting.own one hand u say that employer dont see marks percentage once u have acca degree,they only see aptitude,knowledge etc and on the other hand u say that marks can be used to speclize in particular subject.speclization can be done in ACCA PASSED papers but once u have passed ca no speclization is required.e.g if u have passed corporate law paper of module E,it means u have studied the whole ordinance,its rules,and there are round about 10 or more laws in this paper.after going through all this what further u can study ,i just dont know.

And
quote:
As far as specilization is concerned,once u pass papers like Advanced accounting,advanced auditing,corporate law,advanced taxation,management accounting etc of icap i can assure u with guarantee that ur knowledge is equal to,if not greater,to a person who has a phd degree in any of the above subjects.i mean,if u have studied all the IAS AND ISA and all the corporate laws,what else left to be read.

bilal

2) I read this as a request to not be bullied into silence. I have no power to stop you from posting. The only power I have is to comment on stupid or dishonest posts. There is nothing stopping you from making better posts. If your knowledge is questioned the best strategy is to start asking questions yourself. If you are right it will become clear and if you are wrong then you increase the odds or learning something. If you make claims to knowledge that you do not posses then that is dishonest. If it is clear that your dishonest claims are being questioned then there is a good chance that the person questioning them knows more than you. This could be your lucky day because it is very easy to turn the tables and force that person to give you a free education.

3) This is a dishonest argument. If a person uses only slurs and personal attacks then I agree with you. But if there is reasoned argument and deceptive practices are revealed and pointed out then this is not an attack. People can be dishonest and stupid but they have no right to think that they can continuously be dishonest and stupid in public and not hear about it. At some point someone has to call a liar a liar. Someone has to call a fraud a fraud and someone has to call stupidity stupid. The values of political correctness can be taken to extremes to where stupidity, lying and fraud are now correct. People who plead that their stupidities and lies not be pointed out are simply asking for the same recognition of lies and stupidities as honesty and intelligence. People are allowed to be stupid they are not allowed to pass that off as intelligence. People can be dishonest but they should not expect a free pass.





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Azeem Shah Khan
Manager

United Kingdom
706 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2005 :  7:21:05 PM  Show Profile
Thanks for the appreciation Cheema Sahib, i shall try your methodology of copy/pasting and quoting earlier posts to make my message easier to understand.

I am glad to see people like you coming up with interesting posts supported by verifiable facts. although i haven't yet read much of your posts but so far i am very impressed with your drafting skills and the knowledge/information you have come up.

i agree with you that if someone doesn't agree with something he/she should raise his/her disagreement within the confines of professionalism, but one should not let the culprit get away with writing crap if it is deliberate and importunate.

i once said: together we can and together we will 'change' this forum. Your presence on this forum has re-asserted my wish.


Kind regards


"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."
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Mr. Whappaaaa
Semi Senior

Pakistan
215 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2005 :  12:19:46 AM  Show Profile
OKHAY .. its not a big deal to give some statements again & i think Azeem's post is sufficient enough for someone. Now I am going to forward CHEEMA SAHAB comments:

quote:
Except on resorting to such lame excuses u should first check out the main work in which a Chartered/Certified Accountant is mainly involved in. So compare the papers of
Management Accounting of ACCA(3.7) and ICAP(F 18)
Financial Reporting of ACCA (3.6) and ICAP (E 15)
Advanced Auditing of ACCA (3.1) and ICAP (F 21)
Business Management of ACCA (3.5) and ICAP (E 17)
Advanced Taxation of ACCA (3.2) and ICAP (F 20)

Ur Comments on the papers are welcomed in Advance.


So I am also interested to know about the facts that either discrimination is still exist or not in these papers( mentioned above by DS) because i am not an ACCA qualified thats why not able to give some straightward remarks in these papers. Those who are ACCA or CA qualified then what he like to say about that papers that:

1. Can we compare ACCA level 3 papers to CA foundation ? or
2. CHEEMA SAHAB's comparison is perfectly or slightly right between ACCA level 3 paper to CA module E & F?

& Specialy AZEEM SHAH, what would you like to say about these flash moving pictures (Whether ACCA level 3 paper should be compared with CA module E & F??)

Your comments please .....

REGARDS:







ASIF ALI
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bilal azhar
Semi Senior

Pakistan
256 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2005 :  02:21:05 AM  Show Profile
Desert sleet,Azeem shah,MR Whappaaaa and all those forum members,sorry for all me comments which hurt u.

i feel that this is a democratic forum and every body has the right to say what he feel is right.i have never abused acca as a qualification.in fact i also believe that acca syllubus and exam system is better and more conceptual than ca.The point on which i disagree with u members is the difference between the level of papers.i still think that ca paper is more difficult to pass than acca paper.ignore all the points and just compare on the basis of choice.acca paper has 50% choice whereas ca paper has 0% choice.

I may have childish thoughts but u people are seniors than me both age and qualification wise.I have never abused personally to any member on this forum.if u people dont agree with my views than just write disagree on something else but please dont get personal.

Words like "stupid","dishonest","fruad","theory holds water" and one person has only replied to this topic because according to him i am trying to be "oversmart",words like these just dont suite to professional people like u.

i have been on this forum for the last three months and opens this forum for almost everyday.what i have observe is that some members particularly seniors just dont like any remarks against there views and starts getting personl very soon.but what can we do.this is our culture.we just dont have any "BARDAST".WE just cannot see any person turning against us.This happens in parliment forget about this forum.

Yes u are right man "TOgether u can and together u have changed this forum." This is not fair man.three or four persons firing rockets from everywhere on a child.

AND lastly SHAH GEE by God i am not trying to be oversmart this time.please forget last posts.

bilal
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2005 :  6:11:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Azeem Shah Khan

Thanks for the appreciation Cheema Sahib, i shall try your methodology of copy/pasting and quoting earlier posts to make my message easier to understand.

I am glad to see people like you coming up with interesting posts supported by verifiable facts. although i haven't yet read much of your posts but so far i am very impressed with your drafting skills and the knowledge/information you have come up.

i agree with you that if someone doesn't agree with something he/she should raise his/her disagreement within the confines of professionalism, but one should not let the culprit get away with writing crap if it is deliberate and importunate.

i once said: together we can and together we will 'change' this forum. Your presence on this forum has re-asserted my wish.


Kind regards


"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."



I like how Azeem has addressed the issue, although I have once asked the questions he has and I found resolution to them. I still respect your attitude towards the issue. I'm a believer but I find it hard to reflect my new beliefs when others input incorrect statements. The pain and suffering to the innocent was a big thorn in my side too. You have to understand that no one in this world is truly innocent, we are all biased. So good people will never measure up to the level we should be. critisizm does exists, but are we people that caused it? Your remark would most likely be "No, we could stop it." Which is true but then free will is no longer one of our traits. If ppl did intercede all time with illogical views(as shown by some members) there would be no reason for our freedom. I find it hard to believe that humans were capable of such convincing writing and preaching without some sort of tangable evidence. As far as ur resolution regarding changing this forum is concerned i would like to say "Inshallah" "We can and we will".

quote:
Now adressing Bilal Azhar i would like to clear some points.
ali4u3,u should thank God that icap has exempted inter to acca students.i think that this should not be given.There is huge difference between Acca papers and CA inter papers.although acca students reads a lot more than ca inter,but inter is definitely by far more difficult than whole acca.

bilal

Bilal its 1, just for the record it all started with this post of evaluative criticism.
quote:
i feel that this is a democratic forum and every body has the right to say what he feel is right.i have never abused acca as a qualification.in fact i also believe that acca syllubus and exam system is better and more conceptual than ca.The point on which i disagree with u members is the difference between the level of papers.i still think that ca paper is more difficult to pass than acca paper.ignore all the points and just compare on the basis of choice.acca paper has 50% choice whereas ca paper has 0% choice.

Because I am for freedom. I want everyone to be able to believe as they wish. However in order for that to happen I must allow for their beliefs and they must allow for mine. As long as neither of us harms others with our beliefs then they are all fine as far as I am concerned. I do see however a growing movement in this forum that confuses freedom of speech and likewise many members are using it for there personal advantage and as a critisizing tool. All they should be concerned with is does the Admin allow them to believe as they wish without interfering with the rights of other to do the same.

quote:
I have been on this forum for the last three months and opens this forum for almost everyday.what i have observe is that some members particularly seniors just dont like any remarks against there views and starts getting personl very soon.but what can we do.this is our culture.we just dont have any "BARDAST".WE just cannot see any person turning against us.This happens in parliment forget about this forum.

I don’t understand why you think you need qualifications or seniority to judge the level of commitment to their claimed faith. It seems to me that as a fellow human you can judge them however you’d like. If the views presented by others are logical then i can guarantee that our members wont get slander them for there points.
quote:
Yes u are right man "TOgether u can and together u have changed this forum." This is not fair man.three or four persons firing rockets from everywhere on a child.

Dont worry we can hire some rocket experts. We can as i beleive change this forum and here I am doing it yet again. In either cases I am forcing nothing on you. You are free to believe anything you like. It is unreasonable of you to think that everyone will agree with you. And depending on the argument or belief it could very well be unreasonable for you to expect most people to agree with you. Just becuase you are convinced of what you believe doesn't mean thats its fact. Or PATHER KI LAKEER.(Hey my Urdu is improving a bit).
quote:
AND lastly SHAH GEE by God i am not trying to be oversmart this time.please forget last posts.

Can someone trust a biased person on his feelings towards bias(i am not pointing towards (Bilal).

This is supposed to be a forum for DEBATING Accountancy related matters. Unfortunately there are some here that cannot make a rational debate. And, when their "flawed belief system," and their true intents are exposed, they find themselves mentally naked, on a losing rant, and only have base insults and slurs to fall back on.

---------------------------------------------
If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!

Edited by - Desert Sleet on Feb 14 2005 11:33:37 AM
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syedhassan
Semi Senior

Saudi Arabia
160 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2005 :  11:29:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit syedhassan's Homepage  Send syedhassan a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by Azeem Shah Khan

Thanks for the appreciation Cheema Sahib, i shall try your methodology of copy/pasting and quoting earlier posts to make my message easier to understand.

I am glad to see people like you coming up with interesting posts supported by verifiable facts. although i haven't yet read much of your posts but so far i am very impressed with your drafting skills and the knowledge/information you have come up.

i agree with you that if someone doesn't agree with something he/she should raise his/her disagreement within the confines of professionalism, but one should not let the culprit get away with writing crap if it is deliberate and importunate.

i once said: together we can and together we will 'change' this forum. Your presence on this forum has re-asserted my wish.


Kind regards


"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now."


hello there....
good to see you back AZIM BHAI...
i believe your very right my friend..
and frankly... why should we try dominating others with some vague knowledge..
you think you would get away with it..? surely not..!!
i really enjoy reading your fine posta and topics here...
regards..
syedhassan..

ACCA
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AvgJoe
Semi Senior

Pakistan
179 Posts

Posted - Feb 15 2005 :  12:00:43 AM  Show Profile
Hi all,

I was away from the forum for a few days, but I was happy to return today. Its very very nice to see u back Azeem Khan sahib.

Personally, I may have a slightly biased attitude towards ACCA's examination system. This is because I beleive that ACCA has far more resources (money, course developers, student material writers, experienced paper setters etc) than ICAP. This was also admitted by Zafar ***ani (President of ICAP) in an interview. Hence, ACCA syllabuses, exams are far more developed as compared to CA-Inter & use better exam techniques like scenario based questions. (Remember folks: the purpose of this discussion was to compare CA-Inter with ACCA & NOT TO create another heated debate over ACCA vs CA).

Also, I think ACCA has a far more "crystal clear" exam system, whereby the mark-schemes are published soon after the papers, enabling the candidates to know where EXACTLY they went wrong. This in my opinion is more important than simple publishing of marks! I beleive, that even if exam bodies dont publish marks but still publish mark-schemes than they are fulfuling their purpose of holding a "fair" examination. This is where ICAP needs to REALLY improve.

On the other hand, I understand the point of view of CA-Inter students. I beleive they go through a lot & inspite of all the "weaknesses" in their examination system, they still hold on & pass those papers. This is where I appreciate them. Regarding ICAP, I would say that inspite of all its weaknesses it still provides a certain "CERTAINITY" to its students. Unlike the UK/US, where every college grad is sure of getting a job, here in Pak ppl are desperate. I have seen people spending precious years of their lives & then getting nthg in the end. Hence, I would appreciate ICAP for trying to maintain the worth of its qualification in the Pakistani context. However, I dont agree with their methods & I think this is where they need to reform.

I would also not treat ppl like bilal harshly. Common guys, all of us work hard & its so hurting & dissapointing if someone comes in & tells u that "whatever u had been doing for the last 2-3 years was crap compared to my qualification". All of us have the right to be a little bit BIASED towards the qualifications we hold & to try to defend our "hardwork" (the hardwork represented by those qualifications) by whatever means possible. Afterall, its a matter of self-respect & prestige. Thus, plz members refrain from direct acqusations. Can we try to be "diplomats" here & try to reconcile our differences? Please ?

Looking forward to your positive responses.

Cheers
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syedhassan
Semi Senior

Saudi Arabia
160 Posts

Posted - Feb 15 2005 :  12:42:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit syedhassan's Homepage  Send syedhassan a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by AvgJoe

Dear Desert & Bilal,

I would again request both of u to NOT get personal & not to attack EACH OTHER instead of "comparing the two qualifications" in a unbiased & un-personal way. Thanks !

quote:

I Presented the fact by comparing acca and ca papers.stop this nonsense talk about the word Debate and come to the point.Prove me wrong by presenting reality.prove that acca paper is tougher than ca inter paper.



Bilal, I understand that during ur self-study u compared the papers of CA-Inter & ACCA and found ACCA papers to be easier. Everyone can have different views & many people would disagree with ur statement. I suggest u give us the links to the papers u compared & then the forum members can compare them themselves. Desert sleet has already tried to prove that ACCA papers are tougher than CA (Mod-F) papers by providind links to 2 of them & letting u compare them urself. Do u agree that the ACCA paper he has pointed out is tougher than CA (Mod-F) paper ?

quote:

you're just infantile by ANYONE'S standards. Like the little kid who wants to play with the big kids, you're just a little nuisance.



Dear Cheema Sahib, I admire u for taking so much time out for us to post on this forum & increasing our knowledge. But in the past we have lost a lot of forum members (like Pracs, Ehrar, Azeem Khan sahib etc) just because things got out of control on the forum & the members started personally assaulting each other. I am sure the forum members dont want that to happen again. I would thus request u to please drop the PERSONAL argument with Bilal & not post such remarks about him. I hope u would consider my request & would not feel offended by it. If u do, then I sincerely apologize. Thanks

Cheers


hi all...
i think we'r all here to find good solutions and comparisons...
i think most CA's never like ACCA,(both, even completed)
as they say that ACCA is far easy to pass than ICAP..
i agree yes.. it is so...!
but i think we should see the reasons for it...
and the reasons are:
1- ACCA books and SYLLABUS for all cources are well orzanized and you have everey thing you need to study.
3-Books are well up-to-date
. (where as, in ICAP you need to consult refference books )
4-well planned and organized exam pattren.
(which is never found in CA (ICAP) )
5-well organized marking scheem..(not in ICAP)
6-Global coverage... (ICAP has local coverage)
7-TOTALLY Relevent questions in exams...
(in ICAP, an IT or Communication question, can sometimes appear in COSTING paper )
i hope this is much comparison we make...
in another way, wht in the world should we compare both..???
are we the EMPLOYERS..???
also, both have totallt different scope and coverage...
cheers...
syedhassan...

ACCA
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shahzad
Junior

Pakistan
82 Posts

Posted - Mar 02 2005 :  02:01:29 AM  Show Profile  Send shahzad a Yahoo! Message
well CA or ACCA,
if someone is hard working,, he should go for CA
ACCA karnaaa too bachoon kaaa kaaaam hay,, aap log ACCA say sirf apnee basics hee achee kar saktay hain, baqee uss main knowledge nahin hay, however ACCA is more recognized degree in world wide.
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Mar 02 2005 :  8:09:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by shahzad

well CA or ACCA,
if someone is hard working,, he should go for CA
ACCA karnaaa too bachoon kaaa kaaaam hay,, aap log ACCA say sirf apnee basics hee achee kar saktay hain, baqee uss main knowledge nahin hay, however ACCA is more recognized degree in world wide.


Let me voice a dissenting, pragmatic view. Sure, while no learned individual immersed in these issues on a daily basis can argue (with much strength) that Acca is easy enough or as u pointed out (Bachoon ka Khel), nor with the inherently possible ****y-traps presented by ACA's successful domination of the Pakistani market, efforts such as this are ultimately meaningless. Rants, thoughtful essays, thorough examinations, intelligent analysis and the like serve only to satisfy our indignation (measured and obtuse alike). As a result of such discussions, absolutely no difference is made where it counts. Read my post as its addresed for the "ignorant" people like you.

quote:
I have read your comments about ACCA in various other Sections also . Before I go further, let me back up a moment.

For the sake of this discussion, I want you to forget all the technical benefits listed . Forget the dreams of interoperability and portability of your content between ACCA and ACA . Forget how much time and money would be saved if you will choose ACCA or CA.

As there comes a point in time when the actions of a few can have a profound impact on the many. In situations like these, the many must find a system of checks and balances in order to protect themselves either from the mistakes of the few, or worse, greed and power mongering of the few. Without a system of checks and balances, the many should hardly ever be surprised when the few either abuse their power, act in a fashion that neglects the needs of the many, or make mistakes that cost the many on the same grand scale that the Foundation affected the Galactic Empire. So i hope whenever you will speak u would be backed up by evidence. So first learn, then speak, otherwise plz be quiet. I think students should stick with what they know the best, and leave the technical issues to more technical prople.

For some of the occasions, we have the luxury of carefully planning and crafting our response, but most of the time we have to formulate our response on the spot. That certainly seems to be the problem accociated with the people who try to find faults in ACCA.

You have jumped into the fray without carefully thinking through the various implications of your statements. You have displayed more emotion than logic, made sweeping charges beyond what could reasonably be supported, failed to adequately document your assertions, and, in general, have failed to do the homework necessary to make your challenges credible.

Unfortunately, at this time, there are no courses on the proper way to criticize paranormal claims. So far as I know, no manuals or books of rules are currently available to guide us/you. Its a matter of judjment. Ali you should adhere to certain principles/standards.

The failure to consistently live up to these standards have exposed you to a number of hazards. You have found ourselves going beyond the facts at hand. You may fail to communicate exactly what we intended. You have confused the members as to what are trying to achieve. You have unwittingly put paranormal proponents in the position of underdogs and created sympathy for them, and, as I already mentioned, you have made my task much more easier.


---------------------------------------------
If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!

Edited by - Desert Sleet on Mar 02 2005 9:25:48 PM
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Ali Akbar
Senior

Norway
461 Posts

Posted - Mar 02 2005 :  9:49:43 PM  Show Profile
hi desert u r trying to cross the limits. I m telling u. Who are 'ignorants'? We? Behave urself.
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shahzad
Junior

Pakistan
82 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2005 :  12:56:29 AM  Show Profile  Send shahzad a Yahoo! Message
to desert,
u r ignorant,hum log too try kar rahay hain kay log acca kay giisaay pittay syllabus say bahir niklain, aooor kisse professional degree main aaeeeen

shahzad
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Desert Sleet
Senior

Pakistan
394 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2005 :  2:11:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desert Sleet's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by shahzad

to desert,
u r ignorant,hum log too try kar rahay hain kay log acca kay giisaay pittay syllabus say bahir niklain, aooor kisse professional degree main aaeeeen

shahzad


Once again Chris, if arrogance was wit you would have won a Nobel, or perhaps two by now. I have read Marx Engels and Proudhon, as well as many others as matter of fact, but that hardly matters. (I know you consider yourself the only possessor of knowledge, which does suggest how little you really know. Many students are like that, so don't let it worry you.) Your silly cop-out about ACCA, reminds me of nothing more than the Christian apologists you have so railed against. Amusing really. The theory is perfect it is only the application that was flawed. The carnage is about the same.


---------------------------------------------
When The Going Gets Tough ... The Tough Gets Going ...
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aamalik
Semi Senior

Pakistan
203 Posts

Posted - Mar 18 2010 :  11:26:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit aamalik's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by ali4u3

for u kind information i complted my CA inter then join ACCA..and i have the experience of both ..thts y i m saying this

Never seek advice from a Chartered Accountant. They are trained to find problems not solutions.




sire, y did u do this? i m puzzled....
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Chk_Smile
Unregistered Trainee

Pakistan
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 19 2010 :  01:00:46 AM  Show Profile  Send Chk_Smile a Yahoo! Message
i will just say one thing, if anyone wants to DO CA then he should Follow the method of ICAP.. That is Clear all Module of CA.. for me CA means CA.. there is no place for ACCA in it..
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