Accountancy Forum

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by farhannaeem</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by awaisaftab</i>
<br />Mr.Shamsi

Would you like to comment on the flight of FnorEx from the country ???
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Dear Awais Aftab bhai,

AoA, It is fault of ICAP, ICAMP to provide space in market to CIMA, ACCA. CIMA, ACCA provide opportunities to students to become accounting professionals in very younger age. With proper planning, Students may have these qualfication in the age of 20 years only at that time

When you CAs & ICAMPians starting its education.

it is dream of each parents to see their child as independent qucikly. While CIMA, ACCA offers also remarkable career abroad.

Just check past 10 year records of FOREX, What was value of UK Pound sertlings and Today Pound value is approx 140 PKR.

My question is We ( Pakistani ) are brilliant, talented people (No Doubt ). Why ICAMP, ICAP give admission on Martic/O Level basis to students with some conditions ? It is save our a lot of foreign reserve. I am not asking to decrease its quality education level.


Few years ago, ICAMP give admission on B.Com/BA/BSC basis only. But they are giving admission on intermediate basis. It is good step but not Enough.

I think, CAs and ACMAs should agree on this point so that CA and ACMA should be first choice for students rather than ACCA, CIMA

I think, following CA courses can be offered to such students who come from Matric/ O Level with Good Grades

Module A

Paper A1 Functional English
Paper A 2 Quantitative Methods

Module B

Paper B 3 Introduction to Economics and Finance
Paper B 4 Introduction to Financial Accounting

Module D

Paper D 12 Information Technology

ICAP can allow to study advance courses after passing these subjects.

It will save a lot of time of students, our preceious money who is remitting to UK. It also provide job opportunities for studnet.

Sooner or later, ICAP, ICAMP need to take this initiative.

Please comment
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Brother

Can you pls throw some light on your undermentioned allegation

......"It is fault of ICAP, ICAMP to provide space in market to CIMA, ACCA"......

A reasonable person should make an opinion on the premise of some arguable stuff and logic. I would be much obliged if you share with us your argument and logic regarding above allegation.

BTW, don't mind but it is quite amazing and hilarious to see an Export Manager (who is only concerned for his brother's career) advising ICAP how to structure its examination modules ) For a layman either it is a "suni sunaai" thing or a "takhayyul ke parwaaz". May it be an indication to the truthfulness of what Boss posted above. Anyway, I don't conclude.

Looking forward to hear your arguments.

Regards,


(Edited to correct a spelling error).

@Awais
Dear who told you that CImA is giving 11 exemptions to ICMAP and MBA,there are 7 exemptions to Icmap and 6 to MBA, both have to clear a Gateway Assessment Paper to complete 11 papers and that GA Paper is tough to clear and as for CA (ICAP) they get 9 exemptions without giving any Paper which shows clear edge of ICAP over ICMAP and MBA...

and Awais please tell me that how many people have you met who are freshly Qualified or Finalist of ICMAP, earning 30k extra from doing job on the basis of ICMAP nowadays (not by doing extra work like Teaching)...As I told above that I know lots of Students of ICMAP and my analysis is based on their experiences and opinions.

Well one more thing Have you got any problem from CImA that you are doing "Bahas barai Bahas" and you have diverted the Discussion from its Original Topic???

Mr Shamsi

You are doing Behas Baray Behas

Just look at the following link

http//www.cimaglobal.com/Study-with-us/Entry-routes/I-have-an-MBA/


Please reply me

Regards

One more thing an unexperienced person is not eligible for ICMAP's final certificate rather one year practical experience is required to get final certificate. You should don't be worry about fresh unexperienced ICMA students. Why do make examples these fresh students who even do not have exposure of office culture. You will see that after one year these fresh innocent student will earn 50k plus.

These links will be beneficial for readers

http//www.cimaglobal.com/Documents/ImportedDocuments/FAQ_CPGA_26-08-09.pdf

http//www.icmap.com.pk/pdf/icmap_signed_mou_20082k9.pdf

http//www.cimaglobal.com/About-us/Press-office/Press-releases/Press-releases-2009/August/CIMA-signs-MoU-with-accountancy-body-in-Pakistan/

For MBAs, CIMA’s website mentions

…………..”On successful completion of the CMGA exam, you will be granted 11 exemptions from the CIMA professional qualification”…………….

Regarding CMGA exam, the website states

QUOTE

The CMGA exam is three hours long and can be taken at any CIMA exam centre. The CMGA exam covers material from the syllabi of the following management level papers

P2 performance management
E2 enterprise management
F2 financial management.

The paper structure and syllabus content is

Section A – three compulsory questions each worth 25 marks.

1. P2 syllabus area B - cost planning and analysis for competitive advantage
2. E2 syllabus area B - project management
3. F2 syllabus area A - group financial statements

Section B – objective test questions totalling 25 marks, from all other areas of the P2, E2 and F2 syllabi not covered in section A.

For a fee of £500 the CMGA accelerated entry route includes
- your CIMA student registration fee
- one exam entry and attempt at the CMGA exam
- three CI- Astudy.com online study modules (E2, P2 and F2).

UNQUOTE

I guess similar thing was pointed out by S.A.Shamsi in his post i.e. these 11 exemptions are not offered in a plate. Rather, the MBA candidates have to clear the CMGA exam which in itself is atough task to be achieved.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

Can anyone enlight our MBA professionals who are members of this forum regarding which MBAs are being recognized by CIMA?

Do they equally recognize Pakistan's HEC's for appearing in CMGA?

I feel such exemptions would not be available to each and every MBA as we have quite different discplines, universities and programmes. Therefore, expectedly such exemptions would be available on case-to-case basis upon assessment of what an individual's qualification actually entails and whether or not it satisfies the CIMA's exemption criterion.

Some concrete info on this aspect would be helpful for forum members.

Regards

Following clarification has been given by CIMA on my inquiry regarding exemptions to MBAs

……………………”With the gateway scheme all MBA’s will be individually looked at and assessed, if the MBA is relevant to CIMA then you will gain access to the gateway route allowing up to 11 exemptions. We look at qualifications from around the world and the decision will be made by the admissions team comparing your qualification to our own here at CIMA. We will look at the certificates and full transcripts and then a decision will be made on eligibility for the gateway scheme..……………………………..”

This shows that recognition of MBAs for even CMGA exam depends upon case-to-case evaluation basis. Further, the exemptions are given “UPTO” 11. It looks that not necessarily every one can get 11 exemptions on the basis of his MBA.

I hope the above clarification would be helpful for our MBA fellows.

Regards,

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by awaisaftab</i>
<br />Mr.Shamsi

Some month ago no coaching classes of CIMA were available in any accountancy colleges of Rawalpindi and Islamabad, especially of operational level. even in Skans classes were conducted on the availability of students of CIMA ( I don't know the situation in Karachi and Lahore but I believe that the situation was not different in these cities)

Now around fifteen students taking classes of management level of CIMA only one F-8 campus of Skans Islamabad. The are the beneficiaries of CIMA loot sale scheme.

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You need to update your info.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by awaisaftab</i>
<br />
You say that ICAP is better than ICMAP then why CIMA is not offering 11 exemptions to the ICAPINS???

What are the basis on which 11 exemptions are offered to M.B.A's???
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11 exemptions are offered to those who clear CMGA exam and clearing CMGA is not a child's play.

I Totally agree with farhan that icap should introduce something for matric\olevel students.Im facing the same problem i have got good grades but now am unwillingly doing I.com so that i can do ca in future and i am being mocked by friends "i.com he karna tha to matric mai itni mehnat ki kya zarurat the".on other hand acca exemptions khatam kar de hain and phir wohi bat kai us mai bhe paisay england ko jatay thay .magar icap must have introduced something for matric nd olvel students agar exemptions khatam he karni thi.

Kamran Sab,

Ap nay shayad ghor say un subjects to nai daykha jo main nay propose kiay hain to Introduce kiay ja saktay hain un students to jin kay matric/O OLevels with Business Subjects main good grades hain.

Ap ko to yeh tension par gai hay kay aik Export Manager ICAPIAN ko propose kar raha hay. I Spend 8 years in Firdos Market/Barkat Market Lahore. So many my room mates were completing ACCA, CA.

Dobra ghor say daykhain kay main nay kon say subject propose kiay hain.

Module A

Paper A1 Functional English
Paper A 2 Quantitative Methods

Module B

Paper B 3 Introduction to Economics and Finance
Paper B 4 Introduction to Financial Accounting

Module D

Paper D 12 Information Technology

Agar ACCA Pakistan FIA inroduce karwa sakta hay kay matrix/O Level kay bad students ACCA karain to ICAP ko kia masla hay ???

Phir ap ICAPIAN kehtay ho ACCA log ku kartay hain ? Hum Pakistani dunya kay behtreen students hain. Jab aik brilliant student ACCA via FIA kar sakta hay. Same student ko ICAP apni tarf ku nai attract kar sakti.

Kia ap ko pata hay, O LEVELS, A LEVELS, ACCA, CIMA, IELTS aur na janay kitnay courses, Degrees ki waja say Pakistan ka paysay dhara dhar UK ja raha hay ? WHY ?????

Being Export Manager in Chemical, main janta ho kay UK Industry wise kuch khas nai hay as compare to other european countries. UK Chota sa country hay. Aur Sara Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Bangaldesh is kay peechay pagal ho ja raha hay.

kia ap bbcurdu.com daykhtay ho ? I have so many links about immigration. Gora especilly Pakistanio ko UK nai lana chatata. Daily, wo apni Immigration policy strict kar rahay hain.

Aur hum Pakistan in UK Qualification maray ja rahay hain. in most cases, yeh sub log ( UK Qualified ) Uk ja jahroo marain gay. UK Locals mar gay hain kia UK chalnay kay liay ???

Humra paysa UK ko ja raha hay. UK stong aur Pakistan Weak ho raha hay. UK ki sab say bari kamaiyo main say aik Foriegn students aur un ka paysa hay. Yeh band ho jai. To UK ki Band baj jai. Khud BBCURDU par UK Education Misinter ka bayan is baat ki tasdeek karta hay.

Wo kehta hay kay, Students UK paysa la tay hain aur taleem mukamal karnay kay baad Humara culture apnay country mai lay ja kar implement kar tay hain. WHY WHY WHY ????

ICAP, ICMA ko ap koi strict action layna ho ga to kick out ACCA, CIMA. I am NOT asking to loose faboulous stahndards by ICAP, ICMA. Aray isi waja say to hi CA, ACMA ka jadu sir char bol raha hay.

Main yeh keh raha ho, kay man dar ja bala subjects ko, matric kay baad SIRF quality students to introduce kia jai. Ta kay Pakistan ka kkemti paysa bahir ja nay say bacj jai.

Har Parents ka khawab hay, kay us ka bacha jald parh likh kar kamai aur kamyab zindagi guzaray.

ACCA, CIMA providing this opportunity to students & parents. ACCA, CIMA providing shortscuts.

Why ICAP/ICAMP can not do this but with strict high standards ?

Ap log jo CA kar chukay hain, ICAP par is cheez kay liay dabao dalna ho ga.

We ARE BRILLIANT NATION. WE CAN DO ANY TNING. SAVE PAKISTAN EACH PENNY.

Hum apni mehnat ka paysa in Goray logo ku day jo Pakistan aur Pakistanio ko **** ki gaali day tay hain?

Brother,

First of all let me suggest that it would be better if you write your messages in English because Urdu is not based on Roman words and such a written message is not properly understandable. Secondly, being a room-mate of CAs and ACCAs does not bless anyone with an insight to a profession. Thirdly, I don’t much endorse your logic of saving Forex by placing bars on foreign qualifications. Another member has given you some understandable reasons (on your other thread) that why your conclusion is incorrect. You need to understand that Forex can be saved using so many other better techniques and tariff barriers. Just put 1000% duty on, say, imported dress cloth or cars (or any other luxury items) and you might be saving 100s time more than what you intend to save from a restriction on ACCA or CIMA etc. Please remember my brother, Forex is always intended to be saved raising barriers against LUXURY ITEMS and not about necessities or investments; and if you can understand education is the biggest investment in the world. How ACCA or CIMA can be proven as investments is a question that you have been answered with by the aforesaid other member on another thread initiated by you.

I agree that other countries, specially UK, are earning money from foreign students; but what goes wrong in it, if we are paying them with our own wilingness? It is a free trade market and everyone has been blessed with eyes and ears to take appropriate decision. If someone feels that bodies like ACCA are making money out of their hard earned wealth, they should think over it many times and adopt alternative routes that are also available. We can give them a proper advice but cannot put caps on anyone’s wishes, so far these are legally and morally allowed. However, if someone seeks advice, honesty requires that we should let him know what we consider appropriate for ourselves. There is no harm in it. I have always been saying that let everyone do what he deems fit. The decision is of the decision maker and we MUST not influence anyone as to what he needs for his life. Accordingly the fruit of one’s efforts is also solely for him and he has to take the burden of his decisions ultimately.

You also said something about UK; let me quote it below

……………………..Being Export Manager in Chemical, main janta ho kay UK Industry wise kuch khas nai hay as compare to other european countries. UK Chota sa country hay…………..…..…..

Brother, have you ever compared the annual Budget of this Chota Sa Country with so-called Bigger Countries like Pakistan and Sri Lanka etc. When we concentrate on all the 3 important aspects i.e. economic power, military power and political power, do you know France, UK and Germany are called the Big3 of Europe with such a reference; out of which France leads but with a very short margin against UK and then follows Germany. All other countries in Europe are incomparable to these three on such fronts. Give it a try to understand the facts.

I have considered your suggestions pertaining to allow Matric pass students to enter into CA, and am wondering why ICAP cannot introduce a CA programme from Pre-Nursery Level by designing around 10 or 12 pre-module-A modules? These 10-12 modules can include subjects starting from alphabets, colors, blocks etc to Matric level math, science, Urdu, English etc? Would it work? Anyway, I am kidding BUT the example aimed at to explain that ultimately there is an end and a limit for everything. Personally, I did not even like the decision of allowing direct CA entry route to Higher Secondary (F.Sc, I.Com etc) people and believe this has created some problems of immaturity. However, ICAP and ICMAP must be looking at the moves other bodies have taken and the ultimate decision they have to make. I believe there are people who can decide better collectively than what we individually think and discuss. Yes, we, as members, can give them the appropriate suggestions to start or support a thought provoking process on any professional aspect. If any such move (if came under consideration) would be discussed with the members, I, however tiny voice I have, will oppose such a proposition for the well being of the quality of the upcoming professionals.

Remember my words please, as much would you relax the requirements and ease the process, so much deterioration in the quality of output you will witness over the time.

Please note that my statements do not represent any thought or opinion of any institute at all.

Best regards,

[quote]<i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>

Hello Kamran Bhai..
i send you many email, but i didn't got a reply yet.. your advice is so much important.
all my data is there in E-mail...

Thank you.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by siyyabkh</i>
<br />[quote]<i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>

Hello Kamran Bhai..
i send you many email, but i didn't got a reply yet.. your advice is so much important.
all my data is there in E-mail...

Thank you.

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I would request everyone to post the queries on the forum.

Dear, please post your query here and I will try to respond. I rarely check the emails at the account given to forum some 4 years back.

Regards,

Asalam O Alaikum...

How are u all .. as far as CA is concern with ACMA .. i can competently say that ACMA is much far superior to CA, this doesn t mean in any sense that i m saying or going against CA .. they are best at their point and ACMA is best at theirs.. you will understand about it on reading the whole parah..

Acma is concerned as a necessity of every firm whether that firm is manufacturing or whether that firm is of servicing sector... basically i am saying that any firm whose motive is to earn profit, it has to acquire a cost accountant.. reason for that is this as you can will have to see what is the effect of cost accountant on business.. cost accountant deals with the exact costing of company .. like wapda has set a rate of suppose 2 rupee per unit.. that means that in this 2 rupee they have covered the four factors; land, labour, capital, entrepreneur. who has set the cost of it .. COST accountant as he know the way out to make more profits and reduce cost.. every company require them in order to set a price ... they are trained to manage all these business stuff.. so in order to make a Sales price , cost accountants are there.. so u can understand that scope of cost accountant .. even to give service u require to set a rate at which ur services are offered....

Along with it, the study criterion is quite difficult in acma than ca, reason for this, i am student of stage 2 of ACMA, we study a subject which has three portion Business Math, stat and Operation Search... the lectures given to us in completing three parts of this subject are just 40 lectures of 1 and half hour each... despite of it CA cover the same syllabus of MAth stat besides Operation search and they take 150 lectures to complete the course .. so who is must intelligent.. who covers the 25% extended course in 40 lectures or the one who covers the same in 150 lectures... second thing .. acma is more concerned with theoratical portion so that we could know abt every portion of business.. ACMA is just like a coach of a company ... who trains or takes the team to win a match and CA are auditors who give trophe to the team after their checking of accounts but ACMA makes the company capable to that stage where CA are to come to audit the firm.....

ACMAs are concerned till the G.P of the P&L account as they are responsible to dec. or inc. cost.... they are trained to generate revenue and know how to tackle up the cost .. u know if a company requires a loan .. the finance depptt has to ask the cost accountant that whether is there any space in per unit cost which can deduct out some portion of payment of interest on loan and if cost accountant allows they take loan as he has full knowledge of costing.. so every firm cannot afford a CA as they are concerned with successful companies but who had made that company successful are cost accountant... its a separate issue how they manage it..

Decision is onto you.. if u can study hard with all your powers then join ACMA as its a compulsory thing to be a student of ACMA .......

these are my thoughts by meeting and noticing the changes and criteria, so if anyone knows better he or she can explain it more .. all i can suggest is that decision lies in your hand.

Regards,