Accountancy Forum

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Well,Mr.Ehson.
U r right every sentence said by our PROPHET is Hadith.I accepted my mistake.Secondly,as my teacher told that Hadith infront of all the class.So i thought that it would be authenticated.Thirdly,if i had written that Hadith i must mention the reference.I take it back.I must go through books to find out where it has been written.This is my mistake.
Thanks for pointing out this.In future there will be no mistake if ever i quote,Hadith in my letter.(Inshalla).

Anusha Rafique

meri baat koi nahi sunta aab main nahi bolon ga!

~O~N~E~

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Anusha
 Well,Mr.Ehson.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, Miss Anusha, here you are once again.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Anusha
 U r right every sentence said by our PROPHET is Hadith.I accepted my mistake.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">seek forgivness from thy lord, Allah (swt) and try to be carefull in future.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Anusha
 Secondly,as my teacher told that Hadith infront of all the class.So i thought that it would be authenticated.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I can quote some religios teachers quoting incorrect or for that matter fabricated Hadith. So you should be very carefull in such matters. Afterall you are are litterate why not look for things for the satisfaction of your heart.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Anusha
 Thirdly,if i had written that Hadith i must mention the reference.I take it back.I must go through books to find out where it has been written.This is my mistake.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Till you find out the reference can you please edit the post in which you've mentioned this Hadith. I hope you understand that it is for your good.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Anusha
 Thanks for pointing out this.In future there will be no mistake if ever i quote,Hadith in my letter.(Inshalla).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">May Allah(swt) increase our knowledge.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by naam_thegreat
 meri baat koi nahi sunta aab main nahi bolon ga!

~O~N~E~
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
), If I'm not wrong isnt this your first post in this thread. I'm all ears, what do you have to say.
Besides dont ask people to listen to you, say s'thing worth listening they'd come to you.

If i want to delete one of my posts,wht will i do?
Can anyone let me know abt this?
Actually ,i dont know the procedure.I shall be very thankful if kindly anyone tell me abt this.

Anusha Rafique

You may edit or delete your own posts at any time. Just go to the topic where the post to be edited or deleted is located and you will see an edit or delete icon () on the line that begins "posted on..." Click on this icon to edit or delete the post. No one else can edit your post, except for the forum Moderator or the forum Administrator. A note is generated at the bottom of each edited post displaying when and by whom the post was edited.

----------------------------------------------------------------
*REMEMBER****GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELPS THEMSELVES****
KHURRAM JAMAL SHAHID http//www.khurram.gq.nu

There is an edit and a delte button on top of every post of yours. Here is a graphical representation
http//sn.zabvision.edu.pk/edit.jpg
Hope this would help.

Sorry for having kept you waiting for this reponse, but here is a response to some of your responses that I just don't see eye to eye

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ehson

And are you sure that 1949s revolution made everyone proud. I'd a english teacher (may Allah (swt) give her good life in this world and a good life hereafter). At the time of the revolution she was in China. She has met those people and she might be lying to us by she has told that most of the people were unhappy. So coming back to your point they didnt use to talk bad about their country/rulers becuase they feared that they would be killed not because they didnt want to. If you want to stop the people in that manner it sure would help. After all you want to hear is the praises.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ok I for one would take the word of your teacher, then I guess you need to thank the Government of Pakistan for giving you the liberty of speaking against the government ! and speaking your mind ! Do you know in Malaysia and Singapore it is against the law to critisize the Government, not even the press ! The Singaporian opposition has under 2% representation in the Parliament ! and each ballot paper has a tracking/serial number so the Govt. actually knows who you vote for !

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
You see brother the cirteria is not the number of years you spend. Its the number of subject you take and the quality of the material tought and the way it is tought. Keep that in mind in futre<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Daaa,.. is that so, quality of education, I think you are just bitten by the Indian bug,, good for you. My friend I went to an Indian School for the first 8 years of my schooling,.. I did not find any thing that was extra ordinary with the Indian system or Indians in particular. Infact the 3 of the top 5 positions in my class used to be non Indian kids (including your's truly ) Just for information, as India opens up to the world, the British GCSE/O/A level system is pretty much in with some of the best Indian Public schools switching over to it.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I think you got the wrong Idea from my post. You seem to tell me all the wrongs of India. And honestly speaking it doesnt matter to me. You just raised the point that they dont talk ill of their land and I gave you many reason how they are better than us. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So does that bother you, hearing all bad about India ? well, I as a Pakistani are more than bothered by a topic that says ashamed to be a pakistani and then going on to read all negative about the country

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">They dont need to impress you, neither do I need to defent them. And as said earlier Montery tolls are not a good measurement. Your people do earn more than them but you must be aware of the fact that your people do not enjoy the status which they do.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Huh come on grow up,.. Indians enjoy a better status than Pakistanis ? where on Andaman Islands ! You need to cross the Arabian Sea and visit one of the Gulf countries to see for your self.. or more easier talk to any one who's lived there or even visited one of these countries. About the West ! that's a different story... there is a lot of bias in there and a lot of post 9/11 reaction, so lets not go into that... its worst for the Saudis !

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I remember a very intersting case study of Ritz. When in 70s they brought in the TQM Model of thier own. Their CEO said we are not the market leaders in quality becuase we are good its just becuase rest of the peopole in the industry are not worse than us. And he was the one who changed the concept of TQM.
So as earlier, I'm not concernt about what others do and how they do it. I'm concerned about what we should do.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good so we are talking about absolute thought and problem solving by not relating it to a inferior bench marks. Nice concept, that will help you out in life making you more creative and a problem solver. BUT stop question, how can you be ashamed of being a Pakistani when its just absolute ? did you just decide on it by NOT comparing to any one else,.. not even India (of which you are most impressed)

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I asume that country and home are not similar in the sense that whatever happens in your country is like an open book. The media has access to it. But what happens in your house is not an open book even your neighbour doesnt have access to it.
How can we clean our house if we are proud of the state in which it is, brother? My marrian webster gives me 7 meanings of the word pround. I'm sorry to say brother I cant fit a single meaning in here
 1. Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an act, possession, quality, or relationship by which one measures one's stature or self-worth proud of one's child; proud to serve one's country.
2. Occasioning or being a reason for pride âOn January 1, 1900, Americans and Europeans greeted the twentieth century in the proud and certain belief that the next hundred years would make all things possibleâ (W. Bruce Lincoln).
3. Feeling or showing justifiable self-respect.
4. Filled with or showing excessive self-esteem.
5. Of great dignity; honored a proud name.
6. Majestic; magnificent proud alpine peaks.
7. Spirited. Used of an animal proud steeds.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

All I asked of you was not to be ashamed to be a Pakistani, and feel proud to be one, simply because its like being proud of your family of your ancestory ! simple as that, nothing more, nothing less.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I'm extreemly sorry brother but as I said earlier I cant be satisfied/proud of my country unless I fear that s'thing might happen to my sister or a bullet might ends my brother's life or the fact that a bomb may result in not seeing my parents again. Just becuase they happen to be at a perticular place at a perticular time and thier innocency lead to their death.
You may feel proud of that, but I've my own standards of being proud, once I achieve them I'd be.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is a matter of concern, and no laughing matter ! but then if we all thought that way the very little sanity inour country would go to the Dogs. There are people at the helm of affairs who are to be balmed and not Pakistan. You need to understand and learn to distinguish between the State (of Pakistan) and the Government (who ever is running the country. If we do that, we do half the job. It is not treachery to speak agaisnt a government but it sure is to speal against the state !

Pick up and read the history of Black struggle in the US and the anti apartheid movement in South Africa... its always been speaking against the government. Read the auto biography of the man who spent more than two decades behind bars, Nelson Mandela.. and do tell me how many times he cursed South Africa ! Zero...

Proud to be a Pakistani !

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Sorry for having kept you waiting for this reponse, but here is a response to some of your responses that I just don't see eye to eye<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Good to see you once again.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Ok I for one would take the word of your teacher, then I guess you need to thank the Government of Pakistan for giving you the liberty of speaking against the government ! and speaking your mind ! Do you know in Malaysia and Singapore it is against the law to critisize the Government, not even the press ! The Singaporian opposition has under 2% representation in the Parliament ! and each ballot paper has a tracking/serial number so the Govt. actually knows who you vote for !<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Govt. of Pakistan does not offer the 'liberty of speaking'. I've mentioned that the editor of S A Tribune was tourchered for writting about the curroption stories of the current regime.
And I seriously didnt know about the Singapore and Malay policies. I'd taken aback by this information. But still these countries have done better than ours in lesser time than us, havent they?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Daaa,.. is that so, quality of education, I think you are just bitten by the Indian bug,, good for you. My friend I went to an Indian School for the first 8 years of my schooling,.. I did not find any thing that was extra ordinary with the Indian system or Indians in particular. Infact the 3 of the top 5 positions in my class used to be non Indian kids (including your's truly ) Just for information, as India opens up to the world, the British GCSE/O/A level system is pretty much in with some of the best Indian Public schools switching over to it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Again brother, I'm least concerned about the Indians, all that matters for me is how well my nation is doing and for some reason (probably becuase of the false stats published by the 'non indian' bodies) I can see that they are better of than us.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 So does that bother you, hearing all bad about India ? well, I as a Pakistani are more than bothered by a topic that says ashamed to be a pakistani and then going on to read all negative about the country <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Again I guess you'v got the wrong idea. I want to remove the weaknesses in my country. And (at least the KPI tell me) India is better of than Pakistan and the moment. Indian Govt. might have paid the whole world to rank them high, but they ranked higher than Pakistan. Now, I want to see my country better than thier's. If they are doing s'thing wrong, I'm least bothered. If they are doing s'thing better and Pakistan I certainly feel the pinch, because we in no manner have less resources than them, why than they should take the lead?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Huh come on grow up,.. Indians enjoy a better status than Pakistanis ? where on Andaman Islands ! You need to cross the Arabian Sea and visit one of the Gulf countries to see for your self.. or more easier talk to any one who's lived there or even visited one of these countries. About the West ! that's a different story... there is a lot of bias in there and a lot of post 9/11 reaction, so lets not go into that... its worst for the Saudis !<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">A friend of mine was suppose to be hired for Dhr 7K. But since one of the person in the interview pannel was an Indian he gave a cheaper alternative to the same firm. I seriously do not know it that is becuase of the status they enjoy or becuase of the fact that they want to do s'thing for thier fellow indians, but what I know is that it hurts people of my nation and that is all that concerns me.
Two I've known many cases where a Pakistani supervisor had avoided to hire a Pakitani subordinate, they have thier reason. But I've not heared much about an Indian not hiring his fellow indian. And one of my Uncle used to tell say you go to a restaurant in dxb one day and you'd find that they have hired a new indian waiter you pay a visit to the same place after 2 months you'd realise that everyone from top to bottom working there is an indian. How come Pakistani's dont bring in thier fellow brothers to earn some livelyhood, but the indians do.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Good so we are talking about absolute thought and problem solving by not relating it to a inferior bench marks. Nice concept, that will help you out in life making you more creative and a problem solver. BUT stop question, how can you be ashamed of being a Pakistani when its just absolute ? did you just decide on it by NOT comparing to any one else,.. not even India (of which you are most impressed)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I dont dislike this country becuase we are inferior or becuase we are supperior from any other nation. You see as I've written many times earlier the point is we are not living like we should. Or atlease what I expect from my hometown. I want it to be like the days of Caliphate. Perhaps my expecations are too high, but that is what I want from my country and it is not impossible to achieve.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 All I asked of you was not to be ashamed to be a Pakistani, and feel proud to be one, simply because its like being proud of your family of your ancestory ! simple as that, nothing more, nothing less.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> ), you see its not that simple. As long as sisters in my country are raped, pepole are murdered, people kill themselves becuase of the fear of dying hungry and not being able to take care of thier family, untill the policeman stop selling themselves for as low as Rs 20, when the bearucrates stop filling thier pockets for not doing a greater good, untill the education becomes part of my every individual of this nation. I cant be proud, I'm sorry but if you are sitting on my side of the table you'd realise that you've been asked for too much.
I seriously do not understand why you people do not realise toward which direction we are moving. I know an animal who used to bring in a 14 year old to his flat have a good time with her and give her Rs 15. That 14 year old used to sell the fllowers on one of the signals in Lahore. But her desperation and hunger led her to sell her self for cheaper than flowers. My friend this is the nation you belong to. Had any of my family member being involved in the above case, I'd not have been proud of being a member of that family, infact it would have killed my inside, ever moment till I died.
And you take the case of being honored of being a member of a perticualr family as it is a must. Let me tell you my case, had my father brought a single penny of 'haram' money in the house and if he does that in future, I'd leave this family immidiatly and would not be proud of it. The only thing to bring me back would be returning the penny to whome it belongs to. That is what I want to do with my nation. If you on the other hand think that people who do all sorts of curroption have nothing to be ashamed off and if you think that thier younger generation should be pround of their ancestory then i'm sure they'd no longer consider robbing other as a matter of concern as they'd be proud of what they forefathers used to do. How shall we expect the change than?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 This is a matter of concern, and no laughing matter ! but then if we all thought that way the very little sanity inour country would go to the Dogs. There are people at the helm of affairs who are to be balmed and not Pakistan.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My friend without the people of this nation, Pakistan is just a peice of land. If you want me to be proud of this peice of land and not taking the people of this nation into consideration than I sure am proud of it. You see this land is one the most fertile region, offers me four sessions, has a lot of natural wealth and what not and what not.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 You need to understand and learn to distinguish between the State (of Pakistan) and the Government (who ever is running the country.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I think we need to understand that when we talk about Pakistan it mean the land itself and all the people who belong to this land. Otherwise, I dont see any point of getting into argument. I never said anything to the peice of land that is named as Pakistan, have I?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 If we do that, we do half the job. It is not treachery to speak agaisnt a government but it sure is to speal against the state ! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You've a quite an interesting viewpoint. People and Land are two different things? I seem to fail in understand that. I'm sorry.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Pick up and read the history of Black struggle in the US and the anti apartheid movement in South Africa... its always been speaking against the government.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Using Africans instead of 'black' would have been a better idea.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Read the auto biography of the man who spent more than two decades behind bars, Nelson Mandela.. and do tell me how many times he cursed South Africa ! Zero...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I've read the Auto Biography you are reffering me to. I guess you've missed out two very important points of his book
One Not at a single place has he writtne that he is pround to be a South African.
Two He was not satisfied with the way thing were being done in his country and he tried everything he could the change it. Had he said to himself 'I'm pround of what I'm' do you think things would have changed?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Proud to be a Pakistani !
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Matter of perception.

Here is what I Think, and ofcourse I beg to differ

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ehson
Govt. of Pakistan does not offer the 'liberty of speaking'. I've mentioned that the editor of S A Tribune was tourchered for writting about the curroption stories of the current regime.
And I seriously didnt know about the Singapore and Malay policies. I'd taken aback by this information. But still these countries have done better than ours in lesser time than us, havent they?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Agreed, I know Govt.'s in Pakistan do all sorts of high handedness to quell opposition, but mind you none of that is legal, and Govt's in this country have been brought down because of their high handedness, come to think of it one Prime Minister was actually hanged on the pretext of being responsible for the Murder of a member of the Opposition. Ofcourse, none of it should be acceptable to us either ways.

When it comes to Malaysia and Singapore,.. you see their bright side,. you see the development and not the curb on personal liberty. Good I guess its rubbing into you, one day you will see the bright side to Pakistan as well,

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Again brother, I'm least concerned about the Indians, all that matters for me is how well my nation is doing and for some reason (probably becuase of the false stats published by the 'non indian' bodies) I can see that they are better of than us.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Come on you can do better than this,.. ''I can see that they are better than us ?" how dear brother, care to explain. They have an equal percentage of people living below the Poverty line, they have problems (as a country) the size of whole countries ! Say what you may you are just spell bound by their sheer size of propoganda, I can understand their media is oozing out of our ears and it does the most damage when people are young !

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Again I guess you'v got the wrong idea. I want to remove the weaknesses in my country. And (at least the KPI tell me) India is better of than Pakistan and the moment. Indian Govt. might have paid the whole world to rank them high, but they ranked higher than Pakistan. Now, I want to see my country better than thier's. If they are doing s'thing wrong, I'm least bothered. If they are doing s'thing better and Pakistan I certainly feel the pinch, because we in no manner have less resources than them, why than they should take the lead?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well, yes Pakistanis are in many ways better than Indians. The geographical entities of India and Pakistan differ greatly though. India does have huge amounts of coal (industry grade), petroleoum and a host of other minerals which we do not have or so in small quantities. Plus, Plus they had a hundred head start in industrialisation alone !. Sadly that part is lost on most Pakistanis. What people fail to understand that they were the churning wheels of the British Empire (producing huge amount of semi finsihed material for the Her Majesty's industry). The Present day Pakistan and Bangladesh were more nothing more than British India's raw material grounds (wheat, cotton, rice and jute).

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A friend of mine was suppose to be hired for Dhr 7K. But since one of the person in the interview pannel was an Indian he gave a cheaper alternative to the same firm. I seriously do not know it that is becuase of the status they enjoy or becuase of the fact that they want to do s'thing for thier fellow indians, but what I know is that it hurts people of my nation and that is all that concerns me.
Two I've known many cases where a Pakistani supervisor had avoided to hire a Pakitani subordinate, they have thier reason. But I've not heared much about an Indian not hiring his fellow indian. And one of my Uncle used to tell say you go to a restaurant in dxb one day and you'd find that they have hired a new indian waiter you pay a visit to the same place after 2 months you'd realise that everyone from top to bottom working there is an indian. How come Pakistani's dont bring in thier fellow brothers to earn some livelyhood, but the indians do.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well cheap labour is cheap after all, I guess you have just seconded my point on the sorry state of affairs in the Indian Job Market, so I rest my case there.

Agree with you on one Indian in the firm down, and all... do you think that is fair at all ? I mean being proud of your country is one thing, helping out your country men is another thing but balatant discrimination against a more abler candidate just because he is not of your country is nothing to be proud about, lest follow it.

Agreed, you will find Pakistanis not hiring Pakistanis, because like you most of them are ashamed and run the dogma ''A Pakistani will just be a two timer conner, so I am better off hiring an Indian Maloo''. You know we are the only people in the world who some how (over my understanding though) make fun of ourselves and demean ourselves by calling all that is worst among us. Like wise, too many people think they are ashamed to be a Pakistani, need I say more.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I dont dislike this country becuase we are inferior or becuase we are supperior from any other nation. You see as I've written many times earlier the point is we are not living like we should. Or atlease what I expect from my hometown. I want it to be like the days of Caliphate. Perhaps my expecations are too high, but that is what I want from my country and it is not impossible to achieve.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My Friend Caliphate is an Utopia,. but lets not get into that anymore... Lets work for some thing closer to reality a Just Pakistan, a better Pakistan !

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> ), you see its not that simple. As long as sisters in my country are raped, pepole are murdered, people kill themselves becuase of the fear of dying hungry and not being able to take care of thier family, untill the policeman stop selling themselves for as low as Rs 20, when the bearucrates stop filling thier pockets for not doing a greater good, untill the education becomes part of my every individual of this nation. I cant be proud, I'm sorry but if you are sitting on my side of the table you'd realise that you've been asked for too much.
I seriously do not understand why you people do not realise toward which direction we are moving. I know an animal who used to bring in a 14 year old to his flat have a good time with her and give her Rs 15. That 14 year old used to sell the fllowers on one of the signals in Lahore. But her desperation and hunger led her to sell her self for cheaper than flowers. My friend this is the nation you belong to. Had any of my family member being involved in the above case, I'd not have been proud of being a member of that family, infact it would have killed my inside, ever moment till I died.
And you take the case of being honored of being a member of a perticualr family as it is a must. Let me tell you my case, had my father brought a single penny of 'haram' money in the house and if he does that in future, I'd leave this family immidiatly and would not be proud of it. The only thing to bring me back would be returning the penny to whome it belongs to. That is what I want to do with my nation. If you on the other hand think that people who do all sorts of curroption have nothing to be ashamed off and if you think that thier younger generation should be pround of their ancestory then i'm sure they'd no longer consider robbing other as a matter of concern as they'd be proud of what they forefathers used to do. How shall we expect the change than?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes we have those things to be ashamed of, we need to work for a Just Pakistan ! but there is no reason to be ashamed !

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My friend without the people of this nation, Pakistan is just a peice of land. If you want me to be proud of this peice of land and not taking the people of this nation into consideration than I sure am proud of it. You see this land is one the most fertile region, offers me four sessions, has a lot of natural wealth and what not and what not.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good, agree on that.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I think we need to understand that when we talk about Pakistan it mean the land itself and all the people who belong to this land. Otherwise, I dont see any point of getting into argument. I never said anything to the peice of land that is named as Pakistan, have I?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes we do, unfortunately you do not appreciate the wealth that the people are, don't let a few rotten apples con you into thinking the whole bunch is rotten.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You've a quite an interesting viewpoint. People and Land are two different things? I seem to fail in understand that. I'm sorry.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

State and Government are two different things. A Government runs the State ! you may not agree with the Govt. of Gen Musharaf or MMA running NWFP but will you go against the state by say, selling secrets to the enemy (so that the government of A or B goes down). Do you get my point there ?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Using Africans instead of 'black' would have been a better idea.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah Afro may be politically incorrect, but many Afros refer to themselves as Black, so did I. However, if I have offended any one I do appologise.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've read the Auto Biography you are reffering me to. I guess you've missed out two very important points of his book
One Not at a single place has he writtne that he is pround to be a South African.
Two He was not satisfied with the way thing were being done in his country and he tried everything he could the change it. Had he said to himself 'I'm pround of what I'm' do you think things would have changed?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

On ONE Nelson Mandela and his people were prosecuted, enslaved and then left to rote on their own lands by a foreign colonial people. I hope no nation ever has to go through that ever again.

On two yes, he was proud to be an African ! he was not ashamed of what he was/is.

I guess we just see it differently

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Proud to be a Pakistani !
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Matter of perception.
[/quote]

Proud to be a Pakistani, nothing in perception, just Proud to be a Pakistani

pROUd to be a Pakistani.
Jeevay mera PAKISTAN aur merey PAKISTAN key log.
dekho kitney azad hain key kharab hotey ja rahey hain. ha ha ha
sorry
ek hi nara humara tumhara
Proud to be a Pakistani.
sa peace

yeah PROUD TO BE A PAKISTANI.....I WISH EVERY PAKISTANI HAD A POSITIVE THINKING.....AND COULD BECOME A TRUE PATRIOT......
JAB EK MASJID ME KOORA PHENKA JATA HAI TO MASJID ME GANDAGI PHEL JATI HAI...PER KYA IS ME QASOOR US MASJID BANANE WALE KA HAI JIS NE YE SOCH KER MASJID TAMIR KI KE LOG US ME NAMAZ PERH SAKAIN ETC.....YA MASJID KA ITSELF HAI....NO..QASOOR US ADMI KA HAI JIS NE KOORA PHENKA N MOST OF ALLL THE ONES....US, KE HUM SAB KUCH DEKHNE KE BAWAJOOD USKO SAAF NAHI KERTEY KYON KE HUMAREY HATH BHI KHARAB HO JAE GE....N MOST OF ALL KE LOG HAMAIN KYA KAHAIN GE....N KISI AUR NE NAHI KYA TO HUM YE KAM KYO KARAIN.......HOPE U GUYS GET THE POINT.
OFCOURSE IM PROUD TO BE A PAKISTANI AND I'LL ALWAYS BE....

Hey Ehson, does it mean I convinced you on this one ?

"Allah does not change the state of people unless they change what is within themselves" Quran 1311

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Hey Ehson, does it mean I convinced you on this one ?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My internet was not working so havent gone through your post. Let me have a look please.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Here is what I Think, and ofcourse I beg to differ<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I always enjoy the differnce in viewpoint. Otherwise the world would ahve been boring.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Agreed, I know Govt.'s in Pakistan do all sorts of high handedness to quell opposition, but mind you none of that is legal, and Govt's in this country have been brought down because of their high handedness, come to think of it one Prime Minister was actually hanged on the pretext of being responsible for the Murder of a member of the Opposition. Ofcourse, none of it should be acceptable to us either ways.

When it comes to Malaysia and Singapore,.. you see their bright side,. you see the development and not the curb on personal liberty. Good I guess its rubbing into you, one day you will see the bright side to Pakistan as well,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've been repeating this over and over again. I see thier good points becuase we lack them. I'm least concerned about their bad points becuase that is not my home. What is so difficult about understanding this simple point.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Come on you can do better than this,.. ''I can see that they are better than us ?" how dear brother, care to explain. They have an equal percentage of people living below the Poverty line, they have problems (as a country) the size of whole countries ! Say what you may you are just spell bound by their sheer size of propoganda, I can understand their media is oozing out of our ears and it does the most damage when people are young !<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I'v given the explaination earlier but for one thing right now even tough we are rated equal on the poverline yet they are more educated.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Well, yes Pakistanis are in many ways better than Indians. The geographical entities of India and Pakistan differ greatly though. India does have huge amounts of coal (industry grade), petroleoum and a host of other minerals which we do not have or so in small quantities. Plus, Plus they had a hundred head start in industrialisation alone !. Sadly that part is lost on most Pakistanis. What people fail to understand that they were the churning wheels of the British Empire (producing huge amount of semi finsihed material for the Her Majesty's industry). The Present day Pakistan and Bangladesh were more nothing more than British India's raw material grounds (wheat, cotton, rice and jute).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Dont blame other for your mistakes. If you are so much disappointed by the history then take singapore and korea as an example and look where they stood when we got independant and you'd have a clear idea of what we have done to ourselves. You are bringing same things again and again now.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Well cheap labour is cheap after all, I guess you have just seconded my point on the sorry state of affairs in the Indian Job Market, so I rest my case there.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My brother one thing is for sure, we would never get this point straigtened out. As you consider monetory measurements as the benchmark and I dont. Btw China has the cheapest labor in the world and that has became a threat for countries like US. Cheap labor doesnt mean less competent. I guess I'd be happy to start of with low wages and earn my self why what I demand would be paid to me in a few years rather feeling ashamed of joine as a 'cheap labor'.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Agree with you on one Indian in the firm down, and all... do you think that is fair at all ? I mean being proud of your country is one thing, helping out your country men is another thing but balatant discrimination against a more abler candidate just because he is not of your country is nothing to be proud about, lest follow it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
)Pakistanis (at least not all) dont avoid this behaviour becuase of the ethical dimensions attached to the case. And I've seen examples of leg pulling by the Pakistanis, let not bring that here now as we would deviate further.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Agreed, you will find Pakistanis not hiring Pakistanis, because like you most of them are ashamed and run the dogma ''A Pakistani will just be a two timer conner, so I am better off hiring an Indian Maloo''.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
) you sure do know alot about the Pakistani employers. But I had some of the teachers who have thier businesses in UAE and they said with passion and brotherly love we hire Pakistani and they start playing tricks and somehow our business start to lose. Evenutally they have as unspoken policies that they would no longer hire any Pakistanis. You cant deny my nation is one of the most dishonest nation in the world.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 You know we are the only people in the world who some how (over my understanding though) make fun of ourselves and demean ourselves by calling all that is worst among us. Like wise, too many people think they are ashamed to be a Pakistani, need I say more.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">This has been disscussed earlier and I've written earlier that this is not the only nations which has dissatisfied people. If you feel that we are the only nation to talk ill of our selves you should write that this is your personal opinion. Dont write is as a fact like "you know we are the only people in the world....".
Supperpwers like US has people like Noam Chomsky. I dont understand why we have to go over things again and again? This link may help you meet some more people who criticise thier nations. Have fun while reading http//www.chomsky.info/

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 My Friend Caliphate is an Utopia,. but lets not get into that anymore... Lets work for some thing closer to reality a Just Pakistan, a better Pakistan !<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My friend I'd prefer to work for the true solution rather than sit and admire the non filthy part of me. And my friend Caliphate would come one day.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Yes we have those things to be ashamed of, we need to work for a Just Pakistan ! but there is no reason to be ashamed !<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You have just written a paradoxical statement. You seen to be confused in taking sides. First you say 'we have those things to be ashamed of' in simple words we should be ashamed of these things and in the second part of your sentence you say '.... but there is no reason to be ashamed'. I've lost touch debating with you, as you say we have a reason to do something and then you say we should not do that.
My point in all the debate has been that we have a reson to be ashamed of ourself and you ahve just said the same thing. I seriously dont thing any thing left in this debate.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Yes we do, unfortunately you do not appreciate the wealth that the people are, don't let a few rotten apples con you into thinking the whole bunch is rotten.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">same thing again, its the different level of satisfaction, you are happy with a few rotten apples but I'm not. i want the whole bunch to be clean.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Yeah Afro may be politically incorrect, but many Afros refer to themselves as Black, so did I. However, if I have offended any one I do appologise.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I have lived with the africans, I still have african friends and amoung themselves they call each other niger. But i anyone else calls them that they get offeneded. Secondly 'many' may refer to themselves as a perticular word but not "all" of them have this attitude. Why should we leave the few?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 On two yes, he was proud to be an African ! he was not ashamed of what he was/is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Asif Ali Zardari is not ashamed of what he is. I think we should use his as an example, after all he is our national brother who has been jailed for almost a decade.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 I guess we just see it differently<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">We sure do. The only difference is that you say we have reasons to be ashamed of ourselves but we should be ashamed of our selves.
i say we have a reason to be ashmed of ourselves, we should be ashamed of ourselves and we should work harder to move ourselves out of this sorry state.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Proud to be a Pakistani, nothing in perception, just Proud to be a Pakistani<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> ), this may leed to another debat so I'd say nothing.

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