hi guz u all discuss fields that are very common.. lik ACCA , CAt, ICMA ..
y dnt u guzs think abt some new fields.. like the one is here below.
GARP Global Association of Risk Professionals
The Financial Risk Manager (FRM®) exam, launched in 1997, is recognized as the world's most prestigious global certification program for Financial Risk Managers. The FRM measures a candidate's ability to dynamically manage financial risk in real-world settings.
this program u can say short cut for CFA ,,
well if any body is intreseted in the above program then the info available on the following website.
http//www.garp.com/
regard,,,,
from the best
and top of all
eShA
Although this may seem a paradox, all exact science is dominated
by the idea of approximation.
AOA
It is not a short cut for CFA it is much more difficult then it.
The course out line of FRM is
Quantitative Analysis
Market Risk Measurement and Management
Credit Risk Measurement and Management
Operational, Integrated Risk & Legal, Accounting & Ethics
one additional subject is Operational and Integrated Risk Management which is not covered in CFA exam
currently its exams are only offered in karachi (Pakistan) and Mr.Zia u khan is the only one who is offering tution for it in karachi.
Regards
Fahad A Khan
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it"
CFA is much more 'broader' than GARP. Those who have appeared for CFA Level III compare it with M.Phil (of relevant finance study).
There is no shortcut for either qualifications. Even CPA/CA is not offered any exemption from CFA.
The program offered by Zia Khan is to say the least, FAKE. (contrary to what I had in mind when I met him)
Like i said before GARP (FRM) exams offer much more depth then CFA exams, my statement are not based upon the people who appeared for the exam but on the course outline, as far as Sir Zia concern well i dont know what you had in your mind, but so far five student of his PBS Appeared and passed CMA part 1 and 2, and CFA level 1.This course is not a gimmick, Itâs simply an integration of overlapping syllabuses
Regards
Fahad A Khan
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it"
from shortcut i doesnot mean that wht u guz perceived..
i mean to say GARP is little easier than CFA..
regard,,,,
from the best
and top of all
eShA
Although this may seem a paradox, all exact science is dominated
by the idea of approximation.
I've assessed syllabi of both CFA and FRM (GARP). FRM is not more 'in depth' than CFA, but again it depends on how you're thinking of it I guess.
As far as Zia Khan is concerned, none of his students has passed CFA Level I. Less than five appeared for the first time in June 2005. The results are not out yet.
Secondly, the programme commenced in Jan 2004, and uptil now only five have been able to clear CMA part I and II? Doesn't seem impressive to me.
The programme states that you complete ACCA, CMA, CFM, CPA, CFA and MBA from some Dadabhoy University (excuse my spelling blunders) in three or four years. Now how do you define that as practical? Studying for various different accounting standards and appearing for such exams in such a short while doesn't seem practical to me. But then again, different people different perspectives.
The FRM Examination is a 5-hour, approximately 140 question multiple choice examination. The examination is split into two sections, each section is 2.5 hours in length and it is given in booklet form further more FRM additionally covers Operational and Integrated Risk Management which is not covered in CFA.
While CFA Examination divideded in 3 levels you can attend each level individually timing is 4 hours to solve the papers Level 1 & 2 consist of multiple choice questions while in Level 3 questions comes in 50% essay and 50% multiple choice format.
I guess that you are not fully aware of PBS current status, let me update ur information a little, five student cleared 2 parts in just 1 yr the course consist of total 4 parts, even ACCA takes about 3.5 yrs to pass, Mr. Javed khan is currently giving part 3 of CMA he also cleared LEVEL 1 of CFA.
If you examine the course outline throughly its is not entirely impossible to clear these certifications, as i said before this course is simply an integration of overlapping syllabi, i'll define you a little
CMA examination consist of 4 parts, you only have to clear 3 parts, part 4 is the combination of all 3 parts.
CFM also consist of 4 parts on the basis of CMA, 3 parts of CFM are exempted you only have to give its 4th part which is the combination of 3 parts of CMA and 1 extra subject,as for CFA its first Level is the combination of all 3 parts of CMA. In CFA & FRM course outline is exactly same except one extra subject which i mentioned earlier.
So you see If you clear 3 parts of CMA you can attend CFM and also CFA level 1.
CMA,CFM,CFA,FRM,CPA are all american based certifications all follows same pattern and GAAP rules so it is not entirely impossible but then again as you said different people different perspectives.
Yes one more thing all CMA papers are computerized results are online and comes immediately right after you finished.
Regards
Fahad A Khan
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it"
Also if you need any proof i got subject by subject matching of each course outline.
Regards
Fahad A Khan
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it"
I'm not debating whether FRM is easier than CFA if thats your concern. Let me first point our mistakes in your post.
1. The CFA examination is a SIX hour examination split into two sections (three hours each) with a two hour gap in between. Each of the two sessions (for Level 1) contain 120 MCQs.
2. Mr Javed HAS NOT cleared CFA Level 1. He appeared for it in this June. He has only cleared CMA part I and II. (I'm not doubting his competency though).
3. In a year and a half, only five students have been able to pass CMA part I and II. Taking into account this pace of progress, I don't think anyone could become a CPA, CFA, ACCA, CFM and CMA qualified in three years.
4. There is a great deal of difference between IAS/IFRS and US GAAP and other standards. Its not easy to cope up with both of them considering the continuous updations in IAS and IFRS these days. However, not impossible though.
5. Overlapping syllabi doesn't make things easier my friend. There are not many people who have been able to clear CFA in first attempt. The same holds for CPA.
6. ACCA does not take 3.5 years to pass as you claim. ACCA on average takes 3 years and minimum 2 years.
7. Even though CMA Part I, II and III contain what CFA Level I is as you say, it still does not exempt you from Level I. Which technically does not save you any time.
I would be happy if you'd mention difference between the CFA syllabus and the Operational and Integrated Risk Management that you're talking about. It would help clear my doubts and be of help for forum users.
Further to my previous post, the following link tells me a weird and funny story now
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/operation_badar/message/2934
"How to pass CMA, CFM, ACCA, CPA, and CFA in 2 years"
How do you define that as practical?
Plus, I would like to point out, getting all these qualifications would not guarantee you a place anywhere trust me. There's almost as much importance of practical work experience as your qualifications. And there certainly is no way you can do all while working full time in two years.
And now another link which tells me more
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/ob-ethical-hacker/message/1040
"Certified Management Accountant (CMA)
Certified Financial Manager (CFM)
Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA)
Financial Risk Manager (FRM)
Certified Public Accountant (CPA)
Diploma in IFRS from ICAEW (Institute of Chartered Accountants in England & Wales)"
All that in 32 months (thats what the link says). And who is going to teach you the whole course?.. Yes, yours truly, Mr Zia. Now why is that I don't see any ACCA course up there? Plus, how do you even expect him to teach you CFA and FRM when he himself hasn't studied them? And yes both are very different from CPA/ACCA.
Everytime I check the 'OB' group, it makes me even more confused.
yar jahan per main apnay comments deta hon wahan phir dobara kiyon koi nahi likhta???
~O~N~E~
You are missing the point here the main topic is regarding FRM and CFA, which one is difficult like I mentioned in my previous posts FRM is a 5 hours multiple choice exam, while CFA examination divided in 3 levels you can attend each level individually timing is 6 hours (thanks for correcting me) although the course material is identical but in FRM you have to cover all the topics and give paper in single attempt while in CFA course is divided so I guess you can get the picture your self.
About month a ago I discussed the course outline of both certifications with Sir Zia, and he defined me that even after studying CFA course one needs to cover one more subject in order to appear for FRM exam which is (operational and integrated risk management), I would be happy to define you the subject, but I am afraid my depth doesnât allow me that I am just a CMA part 2 student (and it is not my habit to show off and copy paste materials).
Further I would like to clear some of your points.
1)He changed the course outline because most student wants to join any professional qualification right after intermediate,so that they can earn as quick as possible Sir Zia arranged his previous PBS course outline in such a way that even an intermediate student can join the course.
But in-between this course be encountered a problem most student comes from a middle class background and they cant affort ACCA and DBU - MBA as it is not very much cost effective having this in mind Sir Zia rearranged the course outline and suggest his students to do any four years bachelor to fulfill the requirementâs of CMA.
If you examine thoroughly ACCA charges about 55 pounds initial subscription feeâs, 55 pounds annual subscription feeâs per year TOTAL = 165 for two years (as you said one can pass in two years), 690 pounds for 14 papers GRAND TOTAL =855 pounds = 95760 PK Rs (1 pound=112 Rs)exclusive all tuition fees, i heared from some one that ACCA changed there Fee's structure but i used old one.
DBU charges about 2 lacks for MBA
Respectively if you take a look at CMA course structure its registration fee's per year is about USD 265, Examination fees about USD 165 per part, Total Cost = 925 USD = 55500 PK Rupees(1$=60), if you cant clear in one year again add 1 year registration fees and calculate + 2000/month PBS feeâs=48000 for two years
Sir Zia never said that one should go for all the certifications, its his or her own choice in my opinion even if one clears CMA in less then 150000 PK Rupees its worth it this program is for middle class studentâs and Sir Zia is the only one who is capable of teaching it in Pakistan.
2) I never doubt his abilities as he is the only one who holds triple Master degrees, MBA in Finance, Master of Accountancy (M.Acc.) & Master of Science in Engineering (MS) all three from Arizona State University + CMA & CPA.
3) Mr. Javed Khan gives CFA Level 1 paper and passed as per my knowledge he is appearing for CMA Part three tomorrow.
4) Indeed that is correct there is a huge difference between US GAAP and IFRS, but as I said in my previous posts all these certifications CMA, CFM, CFA, FRM are US based they all follow US GAAP, and PBS is currently emphasizing on these, Diploma in IFRS is added in PBS program as it is also a cost effective certification and holds a discount for 3rd world countries hopefully we'll start studying it in the near future.
5) I never said CFA hold any exemption policy or it exempt CMA parts, you misunderstood my statement, what i said is that if you pass 3 parts of CMA you can easily appear for CFA level 1, as it hold the exact same material which you studied in CMA.
6) The passing rate is slow because most of the students joining PBS are either working professionals studying it as a part time course or Mature student having no solid background, most of the cream prefer to waste 6 years in ICAP , ICMAP or go for IBA, CBM as these are considered to be most prestigious qualifications in Pakistan, the biggest example is Mr. Javed Khan he is sincere with his studies and going well in this course,so I say if he can why not others.
Ok well thatâs it for now I just want you to know that you just cant expect to get the clear picture from other side of the horizon further I donât want to debate on this topic, this program started in Jan 2004 wait 2 , 3 years and you will see so just let the time come.
(Sorry I accedently caculated the wrong fee's structure of ACCA i corrected it but still let the time come and lets end it here)
hi. there is another professional qualification in risk management. it is the professional risk manager exams of prima, professional risk manager international association, anybody heard about it? i'm a new actuarial student, and i'm still confused about the financial risk that actuaries study, and the financial risk that people in finance study. the prima people give some exemptions to actuaries in their exams, but garp i think doesnt
A request for you FAK, do NOT, I repeat DO NOT write things about qualifications you are not aware of to misguide other users. The overall ACCA examination fee is well below the 1000 pound mark. (avg. fee of ONE ACCA exam is 50 GBP; 50 x 14 = 700) Even if you add the annual subscription of 120 pounds for two years it adds up to 820 GBP. DO NOT pen down your knowledge as facts.
I haven't got either qualifications (FRM or CFA) so I do not know which one is tough, but FRM does not cover the whole CFA syllabus in only ONE exam. CFA just too broad and that is why it has three different levels. If you want to compare both their syllabi, I'd be more than happy to point out and tell you where you're wrong (just for the sake of other forum users to benefit). Again, FRM might be tougher than CFA, but it does not cover something that CFA does not, according to both their syllabi that are put online.
1. A person who has three Masters degrees does not impress me to be very honest. Its about the practicality of this weird programme that is more of my concern. To be credible with his statements, atleast ONE of his students will have to show us that he can manage to do all that in two years, or even three. And if all those qualifications that Zia Khan has impresses you, then let me just give you an example of a well known Karachi based teacher Mr. Safdar Mithani who is an ACA, ACCA, ACMA, CISA, M.A in economics, CISA, and MSc. in some computer related degree and planning for a PhD. in finance.
2. If Mr. Zia cares so much about making this programme feasible for 'middle class' people, then why even teach CPA when you know a person will have to incur heavy expenses to appear for CPA as it is not held in Pakistan.
3. Kindly demonstrate that Mr Javed Khan has cleared CFA Level I.
4. It's ironic why you're impressed with the current pace of this programme. Only five out of I dont know how many students have passed only TWO CMA levels in 18 months and that seems good enough? What about ACCA, CPA, CFA, FRM, MBA in the next 18 months? How practical is that?
I have nothing personal against the programme or Mr Zia, but I just don't want young students to be fooled by the so called '4 in (1+1)' and 'CMA, CFM, CPA, CFA, FRM, ICAEW diploma in two years' thingy.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by adnan25</i>
<br />hi. there is another professional qualification in risk management. it is the professional risk manager exams of prima, professional risk manager international association, anybody heard about it? i'm a new actuarial student, and i'm still confused about the financial risk that actuaries study, and the financial risk that people in finance study. the prima people give some exemptions to actuaries in their exams, but garp i think doesnt
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No idea about the prima thing. Its highly unlikely that GARP would offer you any exemption as its only a single exam for FRM.