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This is a much lengthy topic; it can not be summarized in a day. Topics like âFateâ require great knowledge and wisdom. So arguing in a childish way will not get us any result.
SHAHI BUKHARI is believed by great Muslims to be the 2nd authentic book after Qur`an.
As some of the questions about faith are required to be addressed so I will just try to tell what HADITH says about Fate.

Vol 6, Book 60. Prophetic Commentary On The Qur'an....
Hadith 473. (Shahi Bukhari)

Narrated By 'Ali While we were in a funeral procession in Baqi Al-Gharqad, Allah's Apostle came and sat down, and we sat around him. He had a small stick in his hand and he bent his head and started scraping the ground with it. He then said, "There is none among you, and no created soul but has his place written for him either in Paradise or in the Hell-Fire, and also has his happy or miserable FATE (in the Hereafter) written for him." A man said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we depend upon what is written for us and give up doing (good) deeds? For whoever among us is destined to be fortunate (in the Hereafter), will join the fortunate peoples and whoever among us is destined to be miserable will do such deeds as are characteristic of the people who are destined to misery." The Prophet said, "Those who are destined to be happy (in the Hereafter) will find it easy and pleasant to do the deeds characteristic of those destined to happiness, while those who are to be among the miserable (in the Hereafter), will find it easy to do the deeds characteristic of those destined to misery." Then he recited 'As for him who gives (in charity) and keeps his duty to Allah and believes in the Best reward from Allah, We will make smooth for him the path of ease. But he who is a greedy miser and thinks himself self sufficient, and gives the lie to the Best reward from Allah we will make smooth for him the path for evil.' (92.5-10)

Vol 8, Book 77. Divine Will (Al-Qadar).
Hadith 611. (Shahi Bukhari)
Narrated By Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. 'O Adam! You are our father who disappointed us and turned us out of Paradise.' Then Adam said to him, 'O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my FATE forty years before my creation?' So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses," the Prophet added, repeating the Statement three times.

Vol 8, Book 77. Divine Will (Al-Qadar).
Hadith 613. (Shahi Bukhari)
Narrated By Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "Take refuge with Allah from the difficulties of severe calamities, from having an evil end and a bad FATE and from the malicious joy of your enemies."

Vol 8, Book 77. Divine Will (Al-Qadar).
Hadith 593. (Shahi Bukhari)
Allah's Apostle, the truthful and truly-inspired, said, "Each one of you collected in the womb of his mother for forty days, and then turns into a clot for an equal period (of forty days) and turns into a piece of flesh for a similar period (of forty days) and then Allah sends an angel and orders him to write four things, i.e., his provision, his age, and whether he will be of the wretched or the blessed (in the Hereafter). Then the soul is breathed into him. And by Allah, a person among you (or a man) may do deeds of the people of the Fire till there is only a cubit or an arm-breadth distance between him and the Fire, but then that writing (which Allah has ordered the angel to write) precedes, and he does the deeds of the people of Paradise and enters it; and a man may do the deeds of the people of Paradise till there is only a cubit or two between him and Paradise, and then that writing precedes and he does the deeds of the people of the Fire and enters it."

Vol 8, Book 77. Divine Will (Al-Qadar).
Hadith 595. (Shahi Bukhari)
A man said, "O Allah's Apostle! Can the people of Paradise be known (differentiated) from the people of the Fire; The Prophet replied, "Yes." The man said, "Why do people (try to) do (good) deeds?" The Prophet said, "Everyone will do the deeds for which he has been created to do or he will do those deeds which will be made easy for him to do." (i.e. everybody will find easy to do such deeds as will lead him to his destined place for which he has been created).

Vol 8, Book 77. Divine Will (Al-Qadar).
Hadith 605. (Shahi Bukhari)

The Prophet forbade vowing and said, "In fact, vowing (man`at mang`na) does not prevent anything, but it makes a miser to spend his property."

Vol 8, Book 77. Divine Will (Al-Qadar).
Hadith 609. (Shahi Bukhari)
I did not see anything so resembling minor sins as what Abu Huraira said from the Prophet, who said, "Allah has written for the son of Adam his inevitable share of adultery whether he is aware of it or not The adultery of the eye is the looking (at something which is sinful to look at), and the adultery of the tongue is to utter (what it is unlawful to utter), and the inner self wishes and longs for (adultery) and the private parts turn that into reality or refrain from submitting to the temptation.

From the above so many Hadith I believe that Fate is written and can not be avoided by any means. We can not answer questions; why MEDONA was born in USA so her brought up was in an environment where she could not be a Muslim or even a good Christian? Why would be she put to fire. I can not take the credit for Prayers I offer, for any of my good deeds. It is a blessing from Allah, (lÃ£ hawla wa lÃ£ quwwata 'illÃ£ bil-lÃ£hil 'azeezil-hakeemi) {there is neither might nor strength except by Allah [the `azeez and hakeem}.

Dear friends, fate is a much complex concept.

Surah/Chapter 005 Al-MÃ¢'idah. Verse 29. 

Lo! I would rather thou would bear the PUNISHMENT of the sin against me and yours own sin and become one of the owners of the Fire. That is the reward of evil doers.

Surah/Chapter 029 Al-'AnkabÃ»t. Verse 38. 

And (the tribes of) Aad and Thamud! (Their fate) is manifest unto you from their (ruined and deserted) DWELLINGs. Satan made their deeds seem fair unto them and so debarred them from the Way, though they were keen observers.

So it is confusing that why people would be punished for sins if there is fate element in their acts. I have personal experience of fate playing a vital and crucial and important and decisive and very very very eminent role.

So I would suggest that what concerns us is that there going to be a day of judgment where we will be shown our deeds good or bad. So purpose of believing in FATE is that you should stick to Islam and should try, on every test of this life, to stick with the teachings of Islam, not fearing from the worldly loses. What ever happens to us is from the LOHAY MEHFOOZ, and can not be avoided. So I should leave it here as it is.

Surah/Chapter 005 Al-MÃ¢'idah. Verse 101. 

O ye who believe! Ask not of things which, if they were made KNOWN unto you, would trouble you; but if ye ask of them when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made KNOWN unto you. Allah pardoneth this, for Allah is Forgiving, Clement.

I want to make one thing clear that debating on such topics in not what Islam demands from us.
As from one Hadith (I canât remember reference at present) the meaning of which is

{One day Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was passing by some men of Medina who were arguing with each other on FATE, The Prophet showed his anger and said that it were things like this which brought the ruin of earlier nations. }

So my friends instead of arguing idly we should conserve our energy for much greater purpose; I mean, Propagation of Islam.

thanx for strenthenin my belief on fate .
however i want ur help in this context
there is one guy who dont believe on allah(god) (nauozubillah )although he is a born muslim n says that he want proof of its presence
i had tried to convince him through quaric verses but as he dont believe in allah he dont believe in Quran too so not even in faith plz if u have a solid answer to this do reply cuz i dont want to see some one draging himself in hell although i do believe that it is Allah only who lead us to right path so noone can do anythin abt. ta one who is headin towards wrong but still.............

Aslaam O Alikaam, Samyah

To believe on god is very easy, observe the universe and see how the system of whole universe is working. Think about the earth and other planets, how they are supported indivisuly by unseen forces (gravity etc), how days come and nights fall. Tell me who created all unseen forces? Off course God created them. Earth and other planet are moving in a orbit, could you please tell me who is forcing them to move around their orbit???????. This whole universe working under a best management system, but question is who manage/operate the universe? And answer is God.

Holy Quran is only the book at the moment that has not changed since it came in to world 14000 years ago. And researches and professor at Oxford Universty and other researches prove this from other organization, but other holy books have been changed. So that they can fit in their modern way of thinking and living i.e. Anglican church has interpreted the holy Bible and new testament to say that it is our right to have gay marriage, gay presets etc. Here my question is why Quran has not been changed since 14000 years ago. Because Allah says in Quran "verily, we, it is we who have sent down the Quran and surely we will guard it (from corruption)."

Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you 1)see 2)hear 3)feel 4)touch 5)smell. But I say science is flawed. Is there anyone here who has ever seen the butter in the milk, has ever heard the butter... felt the butter, touched or smelt the butter in the milk?. Off course not, then i have to say 'there is no butter in the milk'.

SCIENCE AND THE NOBLE QURAN
Muhammad (PBUH) was unlettered. He (PBUH) could neither read nor write, and he grew up in Makkah where there were no schools. He (PBUH) was far away from the scientific circles that existed in Syria, Alexandria, Athens or Rome. Moreover, the scientific facts mentioned in the Quran were not known in that stage, i.e, the seventh century CE. Having studied and examined the Arabic text of the Quran, Dr. Bucaille says
"i could not find a single error in the Quran. i had to stop ans ask myself if a man was the auther of the Quran, how could he have written facts in the seventh century CE that today are shown to be in keeping with modern scientific knowledge? i had to acknowledge the evidence in front of methe Quran did not contain a single statment that was assailable from a modern scientific point of view. i repeated the same test for the old testament and Gospel, always preserving the same onjective outlook. in the former, i did not even have to go beyound the first book, Genesis, to find statements totally out of keeping with the cast-iron facts of modern science." (The bible, the Qur'an and science, p.120)
Dr. Bucaille stuided many scientific facts mentioned in the Quran such as the creation of the universe, astronomy, the animal and botanical life, human reproduction and other related issues. i shall select, for the sake of brevity two of the above issues to draw the attention of the reader to one of this message.
"And the Messenger (Muhammad PBUH) will say O my Lord! verily, my people deserted this Quran (neither listened to it nor acted on its laws and teachings)." (V. 2530)

CREATION OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH
mans's knowladge of the origin of the universe is very limited. Scientists have proposed hypotheses and theories of evolution that are centered around one them the primodial fireball and the primordial era of matter and antimatter. according to the theories, the universe consisted mainly of strong interacting particles. the primordial matter and antimatter, according to Encyclopaedia Britannica, eventually annihilated each other. thoese particles that survived formed the present universe. the basic process of the develpmont of the universe is presented in the Holy Quran in simple words. Allah commands His Messenger Muhammad to ask the disbeliever
"say (O Muhammed PBUH) 'Do you verily disbeliever in Him who created the earth in twoDays? and you set up rivals (in worship) with Him? that is the Lord of the Alamin (mankind, jinn and all the exists). he placed therein (i.e. the earth) firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it,and measured therein its sustenance (for its dwellers) in fours days equal (i.e., all these four 'days' were equal in the length of time) for all those who ask (about the creation). then He rose over(Istawa) toward the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth 'come both of you willingly or unwillingly.' they both said 'we come (as) seven heavens in two Days and He made in each heaven its affair. and we adorned the nearest (lowest) heaven with lamps (stars) to be an adornment as well as to guard (from the devils by using them a missile against the devils). such is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knower." (V.419-12)
And Allah says
"have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined togather as one united piece, then we parted them? and we have made from water every living thing. will they not then believer?" (V.2130)
(about the) stars (1. Encyclopaedia Britannica 15th ed., Macropaedia, v.18, p.1009.). Abu Qatadah mentioned Allah's statement "And We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps," and said,"the creation of these stars is for three purposes, i.e., as decoration of the (nearest) heaven, as missiles to hit the devils, and a sign to guide travelers. so, if anybody tries to find a diffrent interpretation, he is mistaken and just wastes his efforts, and troubles himself with what is beyound his limited knowledge." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, the book of the Beginning of Creation, Chap.3) this concept of the division of on unit into two or more parts, and the celestial "smoke" referred to above, correspond to factual, scientific data. the Encyclopaedia britannica wrote of the English physicist and astronomer, Sir James Jeans
"we have found that, as Newton first conjectured a chaotic mass of gas of approximately uniform density and of verygreat extend, would be dynamically unstablenuclei would tend to form in it, around which the whole of matter would ultimately condense ." on the basis of this theory he proposed that all celestial objects originated by a process of fragmentation. ( Encyclopaedia Britannaica, Macropaedia, v. 18, p. 10099)
Needless to say, the space program helped disciver the homogeneity of the substance of which the moon, the earth, and other planets are formed. 2such statements in QURAN concerning the creation, which appear nearly fourteen centuries ago," Dr. Bucaille concluded, " obviously do not lend themselves to a human explanation". (Macropaedia, v.18, p.1008)

HUMAN REPRODUCTION
complexities of human reproduction were decoded and understood only understood only after the invention of the most sophisticated scientific and medical instruments, hundreds of years after the death of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) yet the Quran refers to the stages through which the human embryo passes. As Allah says
"And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth). Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge and loged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). then WE made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then we made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then WE made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as anothet creation. So, Blessed is Allah, the best of creators." (V.23 12-14)

Narrated 'Abdullah Rz Allah's Messenger (PBUH), the true and truly inspired, said

"(as regard your creation) every one of you is collectedin the womb of his mother for the first fourty days, and then he become a clot of another fourty days, and then a piece of flesh for another fourty days. Then Allah sends an angle to write four words He writes his deed, time of his death, mean of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in the Hereafter). Then the soul is breathed inti his body. so, a man may do deed characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses; so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enter Paradise. similarly, a person may do deed characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is onlythe distance of a cubit between him and it, and the what has been written 9by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (hell) Fire and enter the (Hell)Fire." ( sahih Al-Bukhari, Hadith No.3332).
(here i want to clear a point that God dont bound sombody by writing, actually God is Aalim ul ghaib and He knows what the person gonna do in his life in the Dunyaa)
As scientifically proven, the stages of human reproduction are
1. The fertilization of an ovum takes place in the fallopian tubes. the fertilizing agent is the male sperm.
2. the implantation of the fertilized egg takes place at a precise spot in the female resproductive system. it descends into the uterus and lodges in th body of uterus. as soon as the embryo is visible to the naked eye, it looks like a small mass of flesh. it groes there in progressive stages that are very well known today. they are the formations of the bones structure, the muscles, the nervous system, the circulation, and the viscera, etc. (Macropaedia, v.18, p.1008)
in conclusion, Dr Bucaille ascertain
"more then a thousand years before our time, at a period when attractive doctrines still prevailed, men had a knowladge of the QURAN. the statements it contains, express in simple terms, truth of earliest natural history which man has taken centuries to discover". (Bucaille, op cit)

Proof of God- having observed the above Quran's verses, now its clear that God exist. caz a man could not be a auther of Quran. as above i have mentioned that Muhammad (PBUH) was unlettered. He (PBUH) could neither read nor write, and he grew up in Makkah where there were no schools. He (PBUH) was far away from the scientific circles that existed in Syria, Alexandria, Athens or Rome.

Now my question would be, Who is the auther of Quran. If somebody says Muhammad(PBUH) then i'll say He (PBUH) was unlettered, he could neither read nor write, was it possible to write a Quran for Him
(PBUH)???. Answer is Yes God exist and He is the Auther of Quran
indeed Muhammad (PBUH) could neither read nor write BUT God gave Him (PBUH) greate knowledge of islam, universe etc etc.

Edited by - sajjad_dar2000 on Nov 11 2003 44659 PM

Edited by - sajjad_dar2000 on Nov 11 2003 50941 PM

Edited by - sajjad_dar2000 on Nov 11 2003 60823 PM

Edited by - sajjad_dar2000 on Nov 11 2003 63655 PM

nice research work... Amam and Sajjad. This is what i like, discussion topics backed up with supporting work.

I have saved your messages and will like to talk about them after ive gone thru them.

________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!

u can also visit the following link...
http//www.beconvinced.com/SCIENCEINDEX.htm
any sane person cannot deny the existence of Allah... it is a fact that prophet Muhammad SAS was illiterate and when an illiterate person says things which are proven after 1400 years... it cannot be a coincidence...
we ask His Mercy and Forgiveness.

as salam o alikum n thanx again for proving such solid matter i 'll refer this material to that person n hope that he'll get convinced .
May allah bless u for all this great effort n guide us all towards the right path (Ameen)

So.....we conclude that the fate is written well before the things happened. So every thing that I do is documented well before and I am bound to do it. well ..... dont take it in wrong sence .........but it is very unfare. If I have a fate to do evil things then what is wrong if I am doing evil things. What about my own will. Dont I have my own choices??? If my wrong doings are written in my fate and the fate is decision of God........then why should I be questioned on the judgement day??????? I again request you all to consider my thoughts in a positive way. Some body ....... please answer these questions.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
So.....we conclude that the fate is written well before the things happened. So every thing that I do is documented well before and I am bound to do it. well ..... dont take it in wrong sence .........but it is very unfare. If I have a fate to do evil things then what is wrong if I am doing evil things. What about my own will. Dont I have my own choices??? If my wrong doings are written in my fate and the fate is decision of God........then why should I be questioned on the judgement day??????? I again request you all to consider my thoughts in a positive way. Some body ....... please answer these questions.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Then Allah sends an angle to write four words He writes his deed, time of his death, mean of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in the Hereafter). Then the soul is breathed inti his body. so, a man may do deed characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses; so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enter Paradise. similarly, a person may do deed characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is onlythe distance of a cubit between him and it, and the what has been written 9by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (hell) Fire and enter the (Hell)Fire." ( sahih Al-Bukhari, Hadith No.3332).

Above it doesnât mean that God has bound us by his writing. Fate has its own/different meaning. Allah is Aalimul Ghaib and he knows everything. So when a child take birth God writes his deed caz he already know that whats his deeds would be in Dunyaa. God loves a man more then his mother (70 times more then his/her mother), there is no any proof in Quraan or in Hadees that God has bound us by writing our fates.

But there are lot of proof in Quraan and hadees that God has showed us two ways, one goes into heaven and other goes into hell. Now its up to you either choose good way or bad. He has not bound ourselves by writing our fate, If i say that he has written our fate, it means we are bound to do according to our fate, and that fate written by God, So, (here I repeat Mr SMR words) If i do something wrong, then how can i be held responsible for that wrong doing???? as I did according to my fate, as God has written my every doing in my fate so what ever i have done and whatever i will do, will be according to my fate, I cannot be held responsible for things done by me, Fate doesnât mean that god has written our fate on a piece of paper and we are bound to act according to the matter written in that. Is it a puppet show?? doesnt it seem a puppet show????
In my opinion, if somebody says that god has bound us by writing our fate, I call this thinking against Islam, as its against the Adal of Allah Talah,
Allah Talah is adil, and being a muslim i beleive he will not ask me for what i have done without my will (as doing according to fate is aginst my will) (agreed). so dont think that God has bound us by writig our fates caz that is against Islam.

Regards
Sajjad Dar

Edited by - sajjad_dar2000 on Nov 13 2003 32118 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Allah is Aalimul Ghaib and he knows everything. So when a child take birth God writes his deed caz he already know that whats his deeds would be in Dunyaa. God loves a man more then his mother (70 times more then his/her mother), there is no any proof in Quraan or in Hadees that God has bound us by writing our fates.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I dont understand the meaning of this word "fate",
but i know one thing, that Everything is done by the knowledge of God, not the order of God.
If i am not correct please correct me.
and sajjad you quote my wordings, do u agree with these??

S M R

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
that Everything is done by the knowledge of God, not the order of God.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

yes raza you are absolutely right (just about human deeds).

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
and sajjad you quote my wordings, do u agree with these??
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Yes Mr SMR i agree. But I believe on fate too, but fate has its own different meaning. There is no concern between fate and humans deeds. Humans are responsible for their deeds.
Here I try to explain the meaning of fate,

Assume shahid has two brothers and a sister and his parent makes the plan to go out for picnic. Suddenly shahid falls sick and he canât join the picnic party. His parents leave the home with his two brothers and a sister, and in a mid way they involve in accident. Their car has crashed and no one left alive. Shahid is alive (caz he fall sick) and that is due to his fate.

Sajjad Dar

there is a difference,
you said he is alive due to his fate,
and I say he is alive due to his sickness <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

S M R

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
and I say he is alive due to his sickness
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

yes raza its right that he is alive due to his sickness, but it was his fate to fall in sick that day<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

bye... take care....see you

sajjad Dar

the question remains unanswered ......... as far as I think

WHAT IS THE FATE???????

Hey Ophie dont u see above falling sick is our fate ?? (Kidding)
mmmmmmmm,
Ophie as far I understand, the fate is the things which are beyond your control, (Exogenous Variables)
right????
like taking loan from IMF is our fate <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

S M R

Edited by - smraza on Nov 14 2003 23411 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
like taking loan from IMF is our fate <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

agreed<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Sajjad Dar

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