<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Astute Accountant</i>
The leaders of MMA Qazi Hussain Ahmed had signed a petition in the Supreme Court to declare Musharaf ineligible for the candidature of president ship. But you know, what was the inside story??? It was just to make the âSupreme Courtâ declare for a second time that Musharaf is eligible for this seat and (this and that) articles support his candidature. In this way no one would find it a childâs play to challenge Musharafâs eligibility, in future and in return for these they had taken a promise by the government that âsome good seatsâ would be reserved for them in future too.
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What is your source of information dear Astute?
In my view any inside drama can't be true atleast for Qazi.I don't belong to his party but he is looking a bit sincere.
Regards
First of all Astute from where you got such precious information, I am also against MMA(because of difference in their deeds and sayings), but atleast i can not accept you statement to be true for QAZI SAHIB, although i have differences with their ideology but atleast as a person he is very very sincere person and he is supporter of all "ISLAMISTS/JEHADISTS", therefore i can't accept you statement regarding QAZI SAHIB....
Regards,
Muhammad Amir
Well, brothers!!! these facts 'd be hard to believe, I know, but this is the reality.
The source of first example We ourselves 've been the eye witness to this.
The source of second example Legal source!!!
To believe or not is totally up to you people but let me make it clear to you that I don't have any personal animity with any one n' I won't get any reward for spreading 'wrong' information. ) It may even be proved with the passage of time.
By the way, Amir Bhai It's not always necessary that one is exactly the same as he/she may appear to be. And as far as the question of his being a supporter of the Islamists etc is concerned, rehne hi dain yah sorty bhi dard'naak hi hai, believe me and further, I may not be able to share it publicy for I deem it unethical, spoiling one's reputation (to such a great extent) this way.
Dear Astute reality ko share karne mai koi unethics nahi hote, please apni story share kejye ta ke har aik ko reality ka pata chale.But dear you should have a proof of it and yes "time will prove" is not a sufficient proof.
Regards,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And as far as the question of his being a supporter of the Islamists etc is concerned, rehne hi dain yah sorty bhi dard'naak hi hai<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Astute If you have anything about ISLAMISTS you must must have to share it with us, may be you are Right(tu hum rah-e-rast par a jain) and may be you are wrong(tu tum raha-e-rast par a jao ) ) waysay tum Rah-e-rast par aa hi jao tu acha hay LOZZZ
For you Amir bhai
http//www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28
http//www.alqassam.ps/vb3/showthread.php?p=27326
http//www.alqassam.ps/vb3/showthread.php?t=1878
http//www.alqassam.ps/vb3/showthread.php?t=7275
Dears,
MMA has always been supporting Musharraf. We have nothing to do with Mr. Fazal Ur Rehman or Qazi Sahib in isolation when MMA is being discussed.
In presidential elections, other opponent parties offered their resignations. MMA leaders (Mr. Fazal-ur-Rehman and Qazi Sahib and others) agreed in all parties conference at london that they will tender their resignations and do every thing possible to create obstacles in the way of Musharraf while contesting the election. This everything possible also included dissolution of NWFP assembly and resignations from National assembly. MMA had a reasonable representation at Parliament (which in my view is also a blessing of Musharraf).
But Mashallah, so cleverly, they supported Musharraf by taking part in election. In Punjabi there is a term "GONGLOOAAN TU MITTI JHAARNA" (shalgam sey matti saaf karna) means to beat about the bushes. So this MMA after fully supporting Musharraf, attempted GONGLOOAAN TU MITTI JHARNA" and dissolved the NWFP assembly. What a wise and timely decision it was?
It was, as per my deteremined view, a planned activity, so that both sides could be satisfied and MMA could be termed as SHAHEED by just marking some blood on a finger. )
And, if in the view of learned politicians on this thread it was not a planned activity and was just a lack of proper managing of the issues, then should such a silly, un-managed and short sighted political party be encouraged and supported to take the government of Pakistan in its hands. What would they do if some actual war would take place while they could not even manage the political war. Should their abilities be trusted. (However, in my viw it was not their mistake, rather, it was a planned activity).
For overall acts of a political party, we cannot differentiate between Qazi Sahib and Fazal-ur-Rehman. If they (Khakam Ba-dahan) lose Pakistan, when entrusted the Government (ALLAH NA KAREY), would some one call it merely a mistake or mismanagement. We cannot bear such mismanagements.
These words are just to support what Astute has written down as I beleive he is correct in so much he has assessed.
However, these words do not and cannot support other corrupt political parties/people who are also very prominant. Nothing is now hidden from the eyes of general public. We only close our eyes to forget what the realities are.
Question is, how long our nation would be closing its eyes?
Regards,
Kamran.
Whatever MMA and their members are, whatever their doings are, and whatever they are, beside all i am against them because they took part in elections in the name of ISLAM(it is totally unislamic to take part in elections because we believe in no elections but in KHILAFAT), and because of the "MUQQADAS KHOON" of TALIBAN they were able to get 68 seats in NA...they asked votes from people by advertising themselves as the supporter of "TEHREEK-E-ISLAMI AFGHANISTAN" but their acts were and are totally opposite to their sayings...
Still i say that MMA is much much better party than other political DAKO of this nation because i know their are some very sincere people in MMA(except leadership and other CHAMCHAY), they also produced their DRAMA of "HISBA BILL" just to make people fool, otherwise "ISLAMISATION/TALIBANISATION" requires no "HISBA BILL" what it requires only "BLOOD" and "BAROOD" and i can confirm their are very few who can afford to loss their lives...
I am not a supporter of MMA and i will never caste my vote to them or others because it is against SHARIAH and ISLAM...
Regards,
Muhammad Amir
Dear Aamir
Though its a bit personal but if you have to chose on party for leadership of Pakistan. What will be your decision?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i> We have nothing to do with Mr. Fazal Ur Rehman or Qazi Sahib in isolation when MMA is being discussed.
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Well Kamran bhi I would like to say that I have no direct relationship with either MMA or JI.lekin mere kafi dost te jo IJT(Islami Jamiat-e-talba)se taaluq rakte te.Un ki waja se mera ye andaza hai ke JI ka koi be nazriati banda including Qazi kesi be aise planning ka hissa nahi hosakta.Aur ap ko pata hoga ke assemblyo se istefo ke maamle par in ke apas mai ikhtelafat ketne bar gaye te.
But my this statement does'nt mean that JUI was part of any such planning but simply I can't comment on their behaviour regarding resignations from assemblies.
mere khial se Qazi sahib ne apni zid kiwaja se JI ko defend karne ka be nahi chora but you are right ke MMA ke hote hoye ham in ko alag alag discuss nahi karsakte.
Regards,
Dear Amir,
You wrote in ur above post
QUOTE
"beside all i am against them because they took part in elections in the name of ISLAM(it is totally unislamic to take part in elections because we believe in no elections but in KHILAFAT."
UNQUOTE
Firstly, a point to be mentioned (not to fight over it). Your above statement is as per a specific group of muslims. So manys dont find elections as non-islamic act and democratic set-up as a non-islamic set-up. At the same time I dont have to convince you for it similarly you cant do it as well.
Secondly, I would be pleased if you apprise about the way out and methodology you suggest for having Khilafat keeping in view all current issues and un-resolved matters.
Would it be blessed or thrown from the skies all of a sudden or would it be a humanly act to select or elect Khalifa??
What would be the criteria of selection or election of a Khalifa and how one would contest it?
Will every sect has its own Khalifa, if not, how all would be gathered under one flag?
How the next Khalifa would be identified? I think by the noble men or by ex-Khalifa?
If by noble men, then how would be ascertained that bala bala men are noble? This is crucial to be clarified in this era when no one is being considered above the board.
And if by ex-Khalifa, then would this not be a "nasal dar nasal Gaddi Nasheeni?"
This has nothing connectivity with what we oppose or favor. This is just to understand from you.
However, solution should be the one which could be acceptable to general masses (at least muslims ones).
May we be able to learn something from you.
You said
"ISLAMISATION/TALIBANISATION" requires no "HISBA BILL" what it requires only "BLOOD" and "BAROOD" and i can confirm their are very few who can afford to loss their lives..."
I can really express my grief for such mindset. Nothing else I can offer on this statement.
Regards,
Kamran.
Amir,
Further to above quries regarding the ideal Khalifa, I also like to ask how a Khalifa could be removed. Would he be life time?
If some majority (even reasonable minority) finds his acts un-acceptable (as we dont find Musharraf's acts praisable) then what would be the remedy?
In such case would he be killed or taken to courts?
Which courts? the ones under PCO?
What would be about emergency then?
Would Khilafat be just like martial law?
Who will bell the cat, whenever it would be needed?
From whom a man of such a strong character would be brought up?
Will any one doubted by others will ever like to be accountable??
Will any one leave his seat, if not found to be a correct person by masses? Pl keep in mind our urge to remain in power as a nation mindset.
Hope to be apprised.
Regards,
Kamran.
@ Israrhere
Brother, go through the lines once again and Iâm sure youâll find the sources of information that Iâve mentioned and if you still doubt my words for Mr. Qazi; go to Dr. Babar Awan; Advocate Supreme Court of Pakistan and heâll affirm my saying.
@ M. Amir
Brother, itâs not a childâs play to reveal âcompleteâ inside stories mainly because they create unrest among the masses at large. But if you insist Iâll try to reveal it to some extent and I hope you wonât force me for a second time.
As per your statement Mr. Qazi is a supporter of Islamists/Jehadies. But you know how do they work for this purpose? He is operating a Jehadi Camp under the kind patronage of ISI. They convince the general public by saying that Jihad is a fundamental pillar of Islam and everyone should try to be a part of this good deed. What all they offer to the parents is a promise of free education and free boarding. In addition to this they kidnap children and even adults and train them for âvoluntaryâ Jihad. Now! Once they train them they hand them over to ISI by taking Rs. 1000, 000 per head. So I feel itâs something more like a business than a ânoble deedâ. Do you think that they spend Rs. 1000, 000 per head? At least I canât believe thisâ¦â¦
Now; what happens with these so-assumed Jehadies? This is best explained by an Indian army man, in âA page from the diary of an army manâ which was published at the BBC. I canât recount the whole story because of time constraints but can just give an account of the main points and that too in Urdu so that its originality is retained
âMain us garum garum behte heuay lahoo ki khusboo kabhi nahi bhula paoon ga jo mere dost ki gardan main lagi mujhahedeen ki goli ki waja se beh raha tha. Aik faoji ki heseeyat se ye meri zindagi main aisa pehli bar nahi hua tha magar ab moamla kuch aur tha. Mera dost mere samne dam torr raha tha. Mujhe uss k sath guzra hua aik aik lamha yaad aney lagaâ¦â¦â¦â¦â¦
â¦â¦â¦â¦ iss tarha army aur mujahedeen ki laraee se kis ka nuksaan hota hai; na Pakistani hakumat ka na Hindustani hakumat ka. Nuksaan hota hai tu sirf aur sirf insaniyat kaâ¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦
â¦â¦â¦â¦ in mujahedeen ko Pakistan ki intelligence agency training de kar Indian occupied Kashmir behjtee hai; 1 khass mudat k liay. Ye mujahedeen Azad Kashmir se guide k zariyay LOC (line of control) cross kar k Occupied Kashmir aatay hain. Guide Pakistani intelligence agency se paise laite hain LOC cross karwane k aur Indian army se paise lay kar half of them ko ya tu marwa daite hain ya arrest karwa daite hain. Remaining half, successful border cross kar laite hain. Aur Indian army k sath fight karte hain. Again at least half of the remaining half is arrested or killed in the fight. At the end of the agreed period, the remaining have to go back to their country. And exactly the same procedure follows, as the one jo pehli bar follow hua tha. Again half are killed or arrested and only a few manage to returnâ¦â¦â¦â¦â¦
â¦â¦â¦â¦ aise main kis ko faiyda hota hai? Ziyada se ziyada un guides ka jo dono tarf se paise laite hain. Aur nuksaan kis ka hota hai, insaaniyat kaâ¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦(And he continues to morn the death of his friend)
Just see, if such a story is published overtly can you imagine that those who are involved directly in such activities are unawares of what happens in the reality? And when they are well aware of it, do you think that preparing someone mentally and physically for Jihad and especially by kidnapping and training them; is it something faithful in your opinion? Even if itâs a justified act in you view then why donât these people send their own children for jihad? Instead why do they send them to USA and UK for higher studies? After all charity begins at homeâ¦â¦!!!
BTW Brother, Islam has never supported extremism and sorry to say, I donât appreciate your words.
@ Kamran Bhai
Thanks for concurring to my views.
I think the people havenât closed their eyes from facts instead they donât try to look for the realities and the ground facts; in the very first place. They are easily convinced by the oily tongues of the âintelligentâ politicians. They are emotion-driven people who donât bother to analyze the things or the facts.
BTW it wasnât a âsilly mistakeâ of MMA. The delay in the resignations was preplanned and was certainly an act to support the govt. and at the same time give an indication to the public that they are fighting for true democracy in Pakistan. Otherwise, it was totally a âdealâ and that too, a deal of âgreat worthâ.
Dear Astute I am extremely shocked to know that you are not against extremism and talibanizaiton but are against the fandamental rights of kashmiries.
Yes you are right ke nuqsan insaniat ka horaha hai to ap pir ye be batayega ke indian army 1947 se lekar aj tak jo roz begunah kashmiryo,aurato aur bacho ko mar rahi hai to wo kis ka nuqsan horaha hai?Agar un ko unka jamhori haq nahi milraha to un ke leye ap ka kia mashwara hai?
Rahi baat indian armyman ke is bayan ke to ye sirf is armyman ne to nahi kaha balke ye to indian govt be kehti hain ke ye mujahideen ISI ke log hain.Es ke elawa india mai jo be bomb dhamake hote wo to un mai be ISI ko mulawis qarar daiti hain,to ap ne phir is aik bayan ka hawala kyon dia.
And as you are saying that Qazi and his party is operating a jehadi camp, yes you are right but "they are working for ISI,they kidnap children and earn Rs.1000000 per head" is not agreeable wihtout any proper proof,and if you don't have any genuine proof then it is realy realy very sad to post such statments.
One thing more is that hisbulmujahideen aur Albadar mujhideen(the groups which relates to JI and IJT)kabhi be kesi aise bomb blast waghera mai mulawis nahi rahe jes mai begunah log(general public) mare ho.
And Yes for your information ap ko batadu ke Qazi khud be jehad mai hisa laychuke hain(you can confirm it from history)
Best regards,
Dears,
I feel Astute has some information through some source at ISI or Jamaat Islami becoz just one sided view of a hindu army man cannot make him to write above post. He may not be willing to disclose his source. I agree that we should not make detailed discussion if we feel not disclosing the source due to limitations.
However, sometimes we do it spontaneously as it pinhcs inside if we know something odd. I know proving the big games and frauds has always remained an extremely difficult task. I can quote hundred examples where people at large knew that something odd did exist in some affair but no body was able to prove it and get the righteous action for remedies. In our society it is not a big deal at all. Even other countries and social set-ups do it. So many NOORA KUSHTIes are being fought and so much is done only to watch personal interests.
As far as shaking of taboos is concerned, we must not forget that at a specific moment, we muslims created similarities between Salah-ud-Din Ayubi and Saddam Hussian. So manys of us named their sons on the name of Saddam Hussian. But eventually things proved to the contrary and his every act gave a witness of his personal interest and lust to remain in power against his opponents doing every thing possible for him including but not limited to murder of lacs of Iraqians. Public was punished for one man's character. This has so many times happened.
Allama Iqbal said;
"Hai Darwaishee Bhi Ayyaari....Hai Sultani Bhi Ayyaari..."
Now applying human mind, I personally feel that Astute's statement is partly correct and for rest of the statement I cannot blame him to be untrue. It would not be hiting any one if i disclose that I had been an active member of Islami Jamiat Talba during some of my college years.
Jamaat Islami has ever been working for ISI becoz both were at Kahmir fighting against india. It is not a sin to work with our army for protecting the political and regional causes of our countary. Diplomatically speaking, it is what so many countries typically do. Governments and agencies have developed people and use people for their benefits and purposes. Whether or not JI is taking some monys from ISI for the srevices, is not known to me. I also doubt about whether or not they kidnapp the people. But I know they have training campuses and have greatest linkage with ISI.
One thing we had never thought in individul capacity as citizen of Pakistan. So manys of us talk against JAMHOORIYAT or DEMOCRACY. But whenever the issue of Kashmir is discussed we use the name of Democratic rights. Mr. ISRAR in his above post wrote
"......................
Agar un ko unka 'jamhori haq' nahi milraha to un ke leye ap ka kia mashwara hai?
"..............................
Here I dont know what the comments Israr has about Jamhooriyet. I just reminded it.
My question is why we feel that our fight at Kashmir is a valid act at our behalf. Can we answer this question. You know I am habitual of talking about TABOOS. I explain it as a dialogue i.e. some questions and some confused answers embedded in questions
Do we feel it is JEHAD what we are doing at Kahsmir?
How can we say it is Jehad?
Becoz muslims are being killed at Kahsmir and they need our help?
Why muslims are being killed at Kashmir only?
What is driving force behind such killing or offence at Kashmir by indians?
Why not muslims killed in else where of India?
No muslims are also killed in other parts of India like Ilah-Abad and Gujrat.
Ok, then why we never tried to put in Jehadi efforts at Gujrat and Ilahabad where thousands of muslims were fired out?
Why only our concentration is on Kashmir?
Is there no cruality with muslims in our own country or else where in the world?
Yes it is.
Then why we dont start Jehad every where?
Jehadies dont accept democracy, then why they want democratic rights of Kashmiries?
Do jehadies believe in Red-Culf award? or division made by Franggies and agreed with Mr. Jinnah?
They were in fact not standing behind Mr. Jinnah when this all division of sub-continent was decided?
No, they fight in Kahsmir only for Kashmiries becoz Kashmiries are being killed.
Why not they doing it in elsewhere at india with same intensity?
Do we accept the same which was done by India in 1971 when our army was killing Bangaalies at Bangla Desh? Do we accept the support of indians to Mukthi Bahni logical?
Is it our responsibility to make independent countries of muslims every where in the world fighting against the non-muslim countries having muslim population?
Would it not be an endeavor to call an action against muslims inhabitants from such countaries indirectly by our own hands?
Would it be a gud gesture if some of us would ask Pakistani Govt to give them a separate country?
And, yes as we expect, if Pakistani Govt would be against such demand, should india come to rescue such party or group in Pakistan?
Does in the opinion of Jehadies Islam gives a concept of boundries and countary for muslims in pure islamic perspective of these jehadies?
So dears, this list of dialogue will be never ending. In fact fighting at Kashmir by Pakistani agencies and groups at the highest level (which i shud say macro level) is not for the sake of Jehad only. There are so many regional, political, scarce resources and defence purposes of such fight. I mean to say that it was and is not in FIKAR and GHAM of Kashmiries. We and China both have our interests in it and we are watching our own interests. It is a ploitical game and not religious act. Yes, watching our interests by instituting so many way outs and methodologies is not incorrect. Even in some peoples' view using name of Islam in it is also not incorrect indirectly. But yaad rakho kisi ko kisi kahsmiri ka gham nahi khaaey jaa raha. Believe me. Neither it was hurting Ayub nor Bhutto nor Zia nor Nawaz and nor this Musharraf.
We never felt a pain for undue killing of innocent Pakistani. We never do it. Hamaarey Kaan par joon nahi reengti. Rather so manys of us appreciate such killings and bomb explosions and create reasons for justifying BAROOD and BLOOD even at Pakistan. Ham ko kiya dukh ho gaa kisi Kshmiri ya Gujrati ka. This whole is a darama.
To this fact, I suppose the things written by Astute are not materially wrong.
Best regards,
Kamran.