Accountancy Forum

one of my friends sent me this link to watch live cricket;

http//www.forumpakistan.com/cricket-match-live.html

Thanks goodman that we find anything else then the same being discussed under almost all threads in this section of the forum (general discussion) May be these people didn't take your advice that how to behave when something is inevitable.

For watching live cricket you need a super fast connection. The quickest websites to update you about score are
www.cricbuzz.com
www.vcricket.com
Cricinfo used to be good, but due to some extra load now it doesn't produce quickest results.

Yah I also used cricinfo.com but left coz of load.

BTW I don't log on to cricke web sites intentionally Because of Pakistan's all time poor performance as I'm too touchy about my country's victory and can't see them losing.

Astute common yaar, base less argument. Now, who told you that Pakistan always shows poor performance. Recently the team is not doing well and for the first time we have come to No 7 in ICC rating. However, before this Pakistan remained between No 2 and 3 for quite some time. So, being at no 2 to 3 or 4 among all cricket playing nations is never too bad. It is agreed that room for improvement is always there. People like you often start saying Oh! Pakistan will loose the match, we always loose. I don't know what cricket they watch. One who can't bear to loose should not play or watch sports

Hey bhai, don't always play the role of "opposition". )
And if you regard the (recent) performance of Pakistani team as a superb (or all time good) performance, I'll say that you live in fool's paradise. All time good performance means being at the top. And being at the top doesn't only mean to be # 1 in ICC ranking but even to lose after giving your opponent a tough time. If a teams loses this way, it is to be regarded as a good performance. It should be an interesting game; I mean good cricket from both the teams.

At least it shouldn't be the way, the Pakistanis performed in one of the matches in their recent tour to India. The Pakistnis had some 25 balls more the the runs, they had to chase. The target left was 35 runs and 6 wickets in hand. The team couldn't chase this total and fell a pray to opponents. Do you expect me to praise such a performance where 6 wickets could add only 20 runs to the total, lossing the match by 15 runs??? Huh!!!

You may regard it an all time good performance, but sorry I can't.....

Astute,

I support your point of view. Still, I think Shoaib's problem has gotten quite similarity with yours. As you can't see Pakistan losing the match; similarly he can't hear harsh words for Pakistan team.

In fact various games have now a days become only a stage show where every thing is pre-planned and finalized beforehand. Just as one can see it in WWE contests. Though I dont have firm proof, still I feel our responsibles have brought us to such a situation where no one even wants to play with us specially in our own country due to our regional and political circumstances and our attitude. Further, we are surrounded by the most corrupt people (or agents of NGOs) at highest seats like Naseem Ashraf. Wherever this is not the case, seats are occupied by army JAWANs who are very much JAWANs as every body knows . (Means very much corrupt). This all stuff at our managerial level has made us to bow our heads at each and every issue and we always fail to convince the others.

Due to this situation where no one wants to play with us, we are on our knees to request the people to have some matches with us. And what I really feel inside is that our all series at this stage are pre-decided and that decision is not a trade off. This decision is always to lose with short margins. So that every one feel that we tried our best and played well in some situation but due to lack of handy exposure of new team we could not bring in the titles. Otherwise performance was average.

Now it is our habit to choose a skipper and to hand over team to him. Then we wait for 5 or 6 years that he will develop required harmony and exposure for the team as a winning side. But he eventually fails (with very little successes as well during this tenure). Then we put all the allegations on his shoulders and opt to choose new skipper. This way the process continues and no one succeeds to give a good side to the country which is basicaly desired by the managerial high ups.

This is what we are doing. I can't bring documentary proofs for it. But deeds and acts speak.

So be thankful to them that they lose the series with short margins and get prepared to see it in foreseeable future. I mean at least for next ten years.

Regards,


Kamran.

As you couldn't disagree with my view similarly I can't disgree to that of yours. Preplanned games, huh!!!

BTW issi situation k liay kehte hain
Chathay, khan peen wakhoo wakh.. larnee nuu ikkathay....
BTW here there is no case of "fighting" but the similarity of thoughts... )

I will come to you latter astute before I think either I or Kamran do not dwell in the real word.

First of all my problem is not similar, I can hear anything against Pakistan, provided its based on some facts and not on pure emotions.

I think Kamran that you must know the difference between a pre-planned match by officials and a fixed match. Evidences might not be there but I can't deny that the matches are not fixed.

Coming to the issue of pre-planned matches. This thing was highlighted during a tour when India was visiting Pakistan some four year back afer a huge gap. The series was being considered as a part of Khair Sagali Muhem. I do have suspicions that (I am saying that because I feel like that) it was a planned series. I mean it was decided that it will be a close contest. But their are no evidence in this regard, however, the way things processed in that series strengthened majority's point of view. If you remember all of the matches didn't make a close contest. Whatsoever, Pakistan lost one day series by 3-2. Now there was the test series, Pakistan lost that also. Now I don't understand why Pakistanis had to decide or what make them to take the decision to loose both forms of game to a weaker team. I mean evidences denying this theory were also there.

After two years Pakistan went to India as was decided. During the meanwhile (these two years) Pakistan played normal cricket and rumours about pre planning were not there. Pakistan won the test series courtesy exquisite performance by Younis Khan. Now it was a six matches one day series and it was as clear as the day of judgement to all of us that it is a planned series at highest level and will result in a 3-3. Pakistan won all four matches after loosing first to. India can never take the risk of deciding such defeat to their arch rivals Pakistan, because their masses are far more idiot than ours and they can't digest a defeat especially agaisnt Pakistan. A world cup match to be abondened there as India was loosing (1996 India vs Srilanka, it was the semi final) and homes of players were burnt in some other incidences. So for every sane mind it is not hard to deduce that this series was not planned at highest level, results totally confute this dogma. Afterthat, Pakistan once again went to India to play a single match at golden jubilee of BCCI. Pakistan won again, and there was a time that Pakistan had a record winning streak of 7 over India. Match fixing issue is very much there but you are the only one I have met that planning of series is a regular process and who thinks matches with teams other than India are planned. Before the start of this series there were rumours that it is also a planned one. If it had been I reckon it should not have been decided after fourth match.

I will like to ask you one question that who have told you that no one wants to play with us? Of course Pakistan is not considered a safe venue by many team, and they are justified for that. But how come no body wants to play with us. It seems that as nobody likes to play with us we have to beg other boards to play with us and in return we let them win. Bhai koi baar karo tou us ke support main koi proof bhi to do....... We as a nation are in habit of making our own facts based on our emotions. But these should be atleast some reasonalbeness.

Are you sure that Naseem Ashraf is or was an army personnel? And how many other army personnel make a part of our cricket board?

I thoroughly laughed while reading your post, either you or I am totally uninformed. Please tell me the name of Pakistani captain who continued to serve in that position for more that 4 years after Imran Khan? Sir there is no such case and you are saying that its our habit. Shoaib Malik is the skipper for almost six months. Before this Inzi continued in this position for some more than 3 years. He was blammed to be a worst captain, however, stat totally said otherwise, I am sure majority are totally unaware that he is among the most successful of Pakistani captains. Before Inzi it was Waqar who remained captain for some more than 2 years (in between Rashid Lateef had been there for a little time). And before that Waseem, Moin, Saeed Anwer, Salim Malik, Ramiz Raja and some others remained captain for some time. So, Pakistani team was blammed to change their captain now and then. And now when the decided to fellow other teams, where captain is continued for quite sometime examples Aussies, Proteas, Kiwis, Lankans. Still criticism........................

Please give me your definition of a good side. I have a lot of concerns regarding Pakistan's team selection and management. But most of what I hear as criticism for Pakistani team is totally rubbish, pre dominantly that we never win. We have won more matches than we lost and our average is better after 2000.

I have no intentions to get into any debate. And after some discussions especially in this part of the forum I had to change my beleif that harmony of opinions can be brought by means of logics. But now I will like to hear some arguments for you, and expect a lot more sanity.

I swear I am against the role of mere opposition. Infact this was the reason that compelled me to retort.

Yaar Pakistani team is not the only team who looses in that fashion. Now take my words majority of test playing nations are weaker than us. When we are to decide a teams performace we have to rely on facts and figures instead of mere emotions.

The example you are giving doesn't happen in recent tour to India. It was the last match of previous series vs proteas. Pakistan threw away the series in the ugliest manner. No excuses when we loose and I don't get money to defend Pakistani team and I am not more a Pakistani than you or others. Blame primarily rests upon some players with Misbah at the top and then Shahid Afridi and then the skipper. They threw away thier wickets and resulted in an embarrassing defeat, infact they also lost the series.

But Pakistan is not the only team which have behaved like that, the game of cricket has a lot of examples. It was in Sharja we were playing against Sri Lanka, Sri Lanka needed 28 runs in last ten overs with 8 wickets in hand. The result was a tie courtesy some great bowling performance in the depth by Waseem and Razzaq. Waqar younis enabled us to manage small totals by bowling out the other teams, it has happened many times.

We lost to Ireland in WC 2007, game would have that. It was surely not a fixed game and Pakistanis tried. Yet lost its game. 100s of such examples are present in history of game. Australlia lost twice to Bangladesh. The minos Kenya managed to qualify for the semi final of WC 2003 (I reckon this to be the greatest upset of cricket). World cup 2002 Korea of soccer was full of such drama. And a number of upsets took place.

When we loose a game we forget the past completely, this is not the problem with you only perhaps the majority.

I wonder how could one have such short lived memory.

Dear,

I wonder after reading your mail that why only I have been criticised for being emotional on the issue of cricket ).

Yaar Shoaib, we as a nation are emotional nation, as you also mentioned for India. Still, it is not a very important or big issue to be treated with such severity. By the way did I say Naseem Ashraf is from army. I must not use irritating words regarding eye sight of the reader of my post. Naseem Ashraf is a doctor and he had been working at USA and is man working for NGOs for a long time. He was also a part of imported personnel package of Musharraf as Shaukat Azeez was. Anyways again it is only an allegation. Rahi baat army men ke tu my brother there are hardly some institutions where army is not fixing its paws. In cricket Gen. Tauqeer Zia had been a big picture of the history who even did not bother to feel ashamed for testing his son Junaid Zia in international cricket. I wonder why the greatest talent like Junaid Zia has been wasted by us. Al'aas!!!

Now talking about match fixing and pre-planning. My assessment of pre-planned matches could be materially worng and I in my earlier post mentioned that I dont have proof for my statement. I said

"This is what we are doing. I can't bring documentary proofs for it. But deeds and acts speak."

So to me the acts and deeds speak like what I wrote. To you these may not speak as such. And yes, in my statement I said that this all is expected to be done in such a fashion that people can't feel it to be preplanned or predecided. You are not the alone who do not feel it like that. Masses believe that these are very honest players and the game is normally very much fair.

I can't ever believe that Pakistan could have lost its match to Bangla Desh in 1999 world cup and to Ireland in 2007 if it was not a preplanned (in earlier case) and a fixed (in later case) match. Now cricket has changed immensly, we forget the confessions made by the people like Hansi (ex-captain of SA) and the result of his confession as a death penalty. Even SA circles doubt that it had been done by Mafia.

Sometimes, some players' attitudes (positively or negatively) also show us that something wrong has been done.

You must know when Pakistan won a test match against Bangla Desh in Multan, the attitude of Inzamam and Rshaid was speaking something. It was worth seeing. Then Rashid was relieved of his duty without a reason even we won that series.

In 1997, quarter final with india, attitude of Amir Sohail and Saeed Anwer was self speaking if we have the ability to hear it. Even Sohail gave some statement that he knew beforehand that no other player was supposed to play his game thats why Saeed and hisself adopted extra hot strategy. Even our national hero Waseem Akram did not play that important match. We must remember Imran Khan playing 1992 even with his wounded shoulder.

In 1987, semi final with Aus, the last over handed over to Saleem Jafar was very clear indication of what we had beforehand planned out. All the pool matches we won even from the best team of that time West Indies. But we behaved quite surprisingly in semi final. I cant forget the negative attitude of Javed Miandad who made his innings so that he cannot be criticised in such a way that he ensured Pakistan should not win.

In 1999 WC final, we again collapsed against Australia exactly similar to our condition against Ireland in 2007. You can find many similarities. Media was enough outspoken to highlight the underlying issues concerning some very important Senator of that time Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman whose cousin was also among the managing people of the team in 1999 tour for WC. That was heard to be fixed / preplanned at governmental level.

In 2003, your all times heros like waseem and waqar were in team. At that time the issue was of unity among the players. Waqar and Waseem issue. This lead us to the depth of dis-respect. And God knows who was the beneficiary.

In such issues you dont have to rely on the game of averages and probabilities. If you are down you are down. People speak out to favor Inzamam for his better average but we forget that we lost almost all home series in his tenure specially against India and England.

We won four matches to win the series in India under Inzamam's leadership. I dont exactly remember but I doubt we lost or drawn the test series during that visit. I could be wrong becoz I dont exactly remember. Plz re-visit the history and correct me. I also doubt that it was two test series and we won it by 1-0. However, I am not certain. Still, despite of the win, we cannot say that it could not be pre-planned. It could be part of our KHAIR SAGAALI MUHIMM and was ,if we see, countered by us through giving India wins for two series played at Pakistan where they ruled out chances of win for Pakistan. It could be some bilateral good gesture.

Now coming to captaincy, After Imran, we are really experimenting skippers. Javed, Waseem, Ramiz, Saleem, Waseem, Waqar, Rahsid, Inzamam etc etc. This was always to keep the responsibilities revolving and forcing the realities to disappear and never come to the surface. At loss of each big series some players had been made the GOAT OF SACRIFICE for some tenure and when people forgot them they were again re-instated decalring to have a good performance in domestic matches. We always heard that Inzamam is basically developing the team to make it a winning combination. Foreigner coach is hired to do bala bala. Dont we see what happened after 3 or 4 years of this total effort. Inzamam government itself collapsed. Same was done by Waseem Akram and Waqar younis.

Should we believe that since 1975 we are losing in WC against each and every match played with india just as a coincidence and no intention was working behind it?

Should we believe that Anil Kumble made 10 wickets in test innings record against Pakistan just by virtue of co-incidence. Could our no player be struck out by any one else?

Should we believe that Pakistan's loss against Bangla Desh (1999) or Ireland (2007) was as co-incidence.

Kitney co-incidence ginwaoon bhaai jee?

Now coming to the point of proofs. Pakistan is the country where Hamood-ur-rehman Commission report came out after more than 30 years even after the natural death of resposnible ones. Kis proof kee baat kartey ho bhaai. Yahaan tu justice he nahi hai proof tu baad main aatey hein. And should one be collecting the proofs to satisfy the others. Even on getting proofs people dont get satisfaction. SherShah bridge has been collapsed in KHI where some innocents died. Should the justice require proofs? Yes. Thats why no one is sentensed. Margala tower collapsed in Islamabad. No one is sentensed just as there is no stern proof. Ojri camp incident (1987) where so many died in pindi and islamabad. No one has so far been sentensed lacking the proof which people like you require (this is not criticism on u BTW its our problem), General Zia's aeroplane crashed but we dont find proofs.

Hamm hamesha proof dhoondtey hain aur files band kar detay hain. Jinhon nay kuch karna hota hai woh proof kay bina bhi kar jaatey hain aur ham sirf munh dekhtay hain. As USA did in Afghanistan and also in Iraq for 9/11 incident. Un kay proofs ko maantey ho bhai? Of cours ethey have proofs to which so many of us dont agree. but for their natio they have done the needful. i mean whatever was required by theirselves. They did not close the files. Ham jaison ko (like Pakistan)proof nahi mila kartey dost.

Kahaan kahaan proof maango gay. Here we are not going to do justice for some one else. Yahaan tu iss chakkar main naa paro. If you dont feel my assessment correct, it would not be correct. Simple.

Stil, this is not a big and primary issue. It did not require to be answered in detail but I wrote these lines as you were expecting to have a reply.

No further debate from me.

Regards,


Kamran.

Dear Kamran,

You can't pull out from this debate like this. And I think we have a point to prove that although difference of opinion will remain but some consensus can be acheived if things proceed in some logical way. Especially when the discussion is between people who value logic. In this case at least one person has such repute.

I was serendipitously taken by your first post, as I think you made some huge statements without giving any logic, as expected improvement was seen in the next one. I will like to clarify it was not you who was taken with severity. (debate will go somewhere else so I leave it here).

Gen Tauqeer Zia is history, he has left the team for more than five years now. The paragraph where you mentioned this issue for me failed to make any sense. I think you may now that currently over cricket is not under direct influence of army men. This is, however, not the main issue here. Anyways thanks for not passing irritating remarks about the eye sight of the person who mistook your ambiguous statement. However, I wonder if something could be more irritating.

Its nice to know that you understand the difference between fixed and planned matches. But I will blame you overemphasing this planning issue. I will like to ask you that what are the reasons which you think make the highest official to plan the results of the matches.

If we have to prove this on the basis of facts the results of Pak India series (the second one) do not by any means conform with it. Seven consecutive defeats to India!!! Howcome you think Indian officials at highest level can afford that! I said in my first post I do have doubts regarding the pre planning for first Pak India tour. Afterthat results were completely different of general perception.

I am a proud part of masses, by using this word I just mean majority. I hate using this word for the purpose of discrimination as is considered a part of fashion by some columnists. Majority whom I met were of the view that this Pak India series was a planned one. Most of them had no idea how, neither any logic behind. No one knows what was the reality but if planned series are to make a close contest as you said, then the deeds deny your point.

Coming further to the issue of pre-planning. Among the people I discuss cricket you are the only one who think that planning of results by officials is done on such a large scale. I mean mostly people restirict this to Pak India tours. May be it has happened once, just may be, but it doesn't mean that every fixture between these two teams is a pre planned one. I can put as proof the winning streak of 7 matches over India, and even the result of this current series.

I never mentioned that in my opinion matches are not fixed. Do you think match fixing surronds only international cricket. Sir, I have witnessed that even players of street cricket a bought and in this case its very easy to judge. I remember the confessions by Cronie, even before that I beleived that some part of some games is plagued by this. However, for me it never means that every player is sold and every game is a fixed one. Match fixing doesn't only surrond cricket a whole lot of sports are affected the world over. Corrupt people are found every where. Soccer is considered amongst the largest industries in Europe. Fixing is there too. You must know Juventus (Italy) among top football clubs of Europe was banned for one year as it was considered that some corruption has taken place. So fixing of matches doesn't only include Pakistani cricket.

Your statment in your first post that no body wants to play with us so we have to beg them for playing and resultantly agreeing to loose made me somewhat emotional. It is never the case, at least no results support this. Why do we forget that we were the finalist of T20 World Cup which took place just a couple of months ago. Why are memories are such short lived ones.

Vs B desh, in 1999 may be a planned or fixed one. As the results had nothing to do with Pakistan's position. But why would anyone fix the match with Ireland. That was a do or die match, why would any player take the risk of loosing such match. It could easily have been the last match for many players. At least Inzi's career ended to that defeat. Those who understand cricket may know that it was not a fixed games. Doubts may be there regarding first match with WI. I tell you one think the matches which are lost against minos or comparatively weaker teams are often considered as fixed by majority. Reason being simply the results were unexpected. Why do we forget that we are not the only team who loose to minos, our propotion is not hitgher than others. Instead letting the actions speak we let our emotions decide. You have to agree it is a fact. I have given a number of examples of upsets in my last post, and not only in cricket. We defeated Australlia in T20, nobody called that a fixed match. So whats the logic behind this thinking that only those are the fixed matches which are lost by us.

Just look at this example. India like us suffered a huge upset and were unable to qualify for next round after getting defeated by B' Desh. At least, I think that Indians can't take that risk. Getting your homes burnt and being threatened to be killed. And if they loose fame their major source of income media will also perish. Beleive you may there were many in India who blamed it to be a fixed match similar to what we did after loosing to Ireland. India defeated W. Indies in 1983 final and able to win their only ODI WC. Why didn't any of Indians call that a fixed match.

You discussed Inzi. He was not made the scape goat by the board, infact its our people who will forget every thing. He was made captain in winter of 2003. Check the stats Pakistan performance remained quite good in 2004, 5 and six. We lost badly to SA before world cup and then a consecutive first round exit in WC. This attitude of masses made Younis Khan the first man in Pakistan to deny offer for captaincy. We cant digest defeat.

Pakistan lost 4 times to India in finals. There are some suspicions that some of the players were bought before the game. If you remeber that game emotions of Amir Sohail were among the main reasons that made us to loose the game. We lost twice to India in T20 championship if you think these were fixed then ........

Negative attitudes are sometimes shown by some of the players, but only highlighted in a lost game. There are many incidences when some o the players showed totally negative attitude but still won. And similar examples for loosing a match with positive attitudes are very much there. So fixing may not be the only reason for negative or positive attitude, the day also counts.

I will not comment on the last part of your post. Just one thing ye sirf hamara masla nahin he. Hum ne bohat si files dbain same was done by USA. The case of 9/11 and the matter of weapons of mass destructions, their masses can also have and do have same regrets. The propotion is larger in our country. (this I guess has nothing to do with cricket)

Coming to those who say Pakistani team loose the matches we play and therefore we don't see cricket.

And for those who consider every game is a fixed one, they should be really thank ful to those who fix the matches as Pakistani have lost 40 percent of the matches we have played. And performance after 2000 is even better.

Matches are definitely fixed but not every match, rarely, and results and performance speak volume of the conspiracy. Not only cricket but other sports too, not only Pakistan but other countries. But it is not very difficult for those who understand game in true sense to assess. So I find the argument that "I don't watch cricket as every match Pakistan looses or every game is fixed" equvalent to closing your eyes and denying facts.

@ Shoaib

The match I had been talking about was in the team’s recent tour to India and not VS Africans. You can check the record but anyway this is not the issue. What I am concerned about is the overall performance of our team. Yes, I agree Aussies, Kiwis etc also lose their matches against weaker teams. But you can’t completely eradicate the possibility of match-fixing or preplanned games (whatever you deem fit).

And BTW we (or probably I) don’t forget our “glorious past” when we lose a single game. We do remember it but you’d be aware that every country wants to be at the top. Had they no any such intentions, no one would have ever strived to win.

BTW I had asked you if you were busy (perhaps in exams or apprenticeship) that you had not been appearing on the board?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Dear,

I wonder after reading your mail that why only I have been criticised for being emotional on the issue of cricket ).

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">



Bhai, there were only three people involved in this discussion; Shoaib Bhai, you and me (being the intended recipients of his posts). You’re wondering why he has criticized only you for being emotional on the issue of cricket. You wanted him to have put me too, in the line of fire??? Now don’t say that you were not referring to me…… [(]You seem to be in a mood to turn towards a sort of Bhai that Shoaib Bhai had warned me of. [0]

Jin pe hota hai dil ko maan bahut
Waqt parne pe wohi loog dagha daite hain..........

[(]OWEEN OWEEN OWEEN OWEEN OWEEN OWEEN !!!!! …………………………

Dear Astute,

I again wonder why you deduced meaning of that particular line this way. I said

"I wonder after reading your mail that why only I have been criticised for being emotional on the issue of cricket )."

So this is a wonder which arouse after reading Shoaib's first and even second post. He has behaved with grave concerns and logics to prove that matches are typically not pre-planned (although he almost failed to do it and his own statements are contradicting each other severely, i think if he look back on his second post he can find such contradiction at his own) and fixed in world over perspective and that Pakistani team is a live example of character and professional integrity.

So my words were pointing out his own emotional attitude which he is still carrying on but at the same time criticising the others for doing it at the other end. In fact he got great similarity with you in behaving emotionally for the country and game. It's not really bad.

I think you have to re-consider my "ambiguous" statement once again. Do you note that the thing which we cant understand, we dont declare it our own problem, rather we declare it ambiguous. Thats cool!!!

So dear Shoaib,

Why you are calling me to such purposeless debate? You know I am not from the ones who call the others for my help at the end or who try to find out reasons to quit. you know it. Further, whenever some one is speaking for or against a topic it is only a logic which works. Now if such logic is not a logic in ur viewpoint or has less wightage or is less convincing, you cant say it otherwise. It wud again remain a logic, though not appealing some one. This is what I already told you at some other thread. The words to contrary are normally expression of avenge and nothing else. Any one of us could be subject to it.

I just dont feel this topic worth debating to such extent becoz I firmly believe that majority of matches in different games are either pre-planned or fixed. Infact you also accepted it in ur post. If some one had been corrupt at one stage (which you also agree) how can you firmly say that he would not be a corrupt one at other stage. Its strange from you if you predict this way. By the way do you remember what definition for a FAITHFUL PERSON (MOMAN) has been given in Hadees? Now plz dont say that faith has nothing to do in such matters.

My brother, nothing "important" in international arena is un-fixed or un-planned not only in cricket but in every sphere of life. Yes trade offs are certainly there in so many cases and harder and powerful is typically on higher side in majority of the circumstances. I said majority, not completely. I wonder you only remember 7 wins over india but you forget similar long list of defeats (at Pakistan) substantially in the same period against india. If you will compare wins of Pak in india at india against loss of Pak against india at Pakistan, you may reasonablly find out some glimpse of pre-planning. Further, the mix of series had been planned in the way that masses should not feel affected. A series at Pak lost by Pak then a series at India lost by India and so on...... If you dont find such glimpse, again it is not a very big issue for me. Becoz at the moment other issues are much bigger than cricket which we can discuss.

Burning of homes is not an issue for those who at their own would not mind to burn such a house after having fixed or pre-planned wins. Do you think our players had have such a life which such losses and wins etc have given them. They earn both ways, on winning as well as on losing becoz as far as fixing is concerned it is not only confined to wins only. This is despite the huge salaries which they are taking which are normally more than any highly qualified professional. Under hand payments are never surfaced. You can judge any players history with his current situation. Just the danger of burning of a home is normally not a big issue if compare it to benefits obtained from the double game. Moreover, in pre-planned wins or defeats, governments do not let any body do things like this. You know in history no player of india or Pak has been killed by those who fired out the homes etc.

FURTHER, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE AVOID DOING CORRUPTION FOR THE FEAR OF ANY WORLDLY OR SPIRTUAL THING??? If you feel so, then express it and I will tell you the incidents where people do various things knowing that its penalty is death. You must be aware of beheading of smugglers at Saudi Arabia. Does it work to stop such activities?? There are number of such other examples. Lust is lust and fear cannot stop it my brother. Just concentrate on it. You will understand.

At the end I may invite your intention towards your demand for proofs. If I dont have any proof or evidence for what I am trying to prove, do you have such similar evidence or proof in support of what you are trying to prove????????? Kia Bolti Tu??? If only logics have to work, then plz see initial paragraphs where I told you that logics are always logics and any side can not call it otherwise.

Once again I would like to re-call that this topic is not worth debating any more. So should we not discuss some other good topic??

Regards,



Kamran.

Chalain jee jo ap ne kaha maan laite hain k ap theek keh rahe hon gay. Waise, truely speaking mere paley kuch nahi para (The above post I'm talking about)..........