12-19-2007, 01:59 AM
National Assembly Seats are announced in President House...
PML(Q)===========>115
JUI(F) Urf MMA===>45
PML(N)===========>40
PPPP=============>90
MQM==============>20
ANP==============>12
12-19-2007, 01:59 AM
12-25-2007, 05:00 AM
National Assembly Seats are announced in President House...
But i dnt agree
these may be
PML(Q)===========>25%
JUI(F) Urf MMA===>10%
PML(N)===========>20-22%
PPPP=============>23-25%
MQM==============>15%
ANP==============>7-8%
But i dnt agree
these may be
PML(Q)===========>25%
JUI(F) Urf MMA===>10%
PML(N)===========>20-22%
PPPP=============>23-25%
MQM==============>15%
ANP==============>7-8%
12-25-2007, 09:09 PM
Amir, elections and results will shortly be known to us and then we will be in a better position to evaluate your forsight or intuition. And my view is not much different from yours.
12-27-2007, 07:27 PM
Though i am not a politician or got interest to these topics but my humble request to all readers is not to vote for pml(Q) because by voting them one will contribute towards all those sins commited by this party in future.
Regards
Imran
Regards
Imran
12-28-2007, 06:17 AM
I am against voting system because this is a system of "FARANGIES" and even casting votes to MMA is UnIslmaic act we have to refrain us from casting votes for "JAMHURIAT(a tool designed by FARANGIES to make Muslims GHAFIL from Jehad)"...
Jamhuriat is UnIslamic and casting votes are also UnIslamin act, this MMA(working under the supervision of Molve Fazlu-r-Rehman) is agent of America/Taghoot and Yahood-o-Nassara, I salute to Moulana Sami-ul-Haq and Qazi Hussain Ahmed Sahib...
And fie upon Mr Molve Fazlu-r-Rehman(an agent of Taghoot)....
Regards,
Muhammad Amir
Jamhuriat is UnIslamic and casting votes are also UnIslamin act, this MMA(working under the supervision of Molve Fazlu-r-Rehman) is agent of America/Taghoot and Yahood-o-Nassara, I salute to Moulana Sami-ul-Haq and Qazi Hussain Ahmed Sahib...
And fie upon Mr Molve Fazlu-r-Rehman(an agent of Taghoot)....
Regards,
Muhammad Amir
12-29-2007, 11:07 PM
@ M. Amir
Democracy, what you refer to as JAMHURIAT, neither is unislamic nor is a 'product' of the west.
Democracy is the government of the people, by the people and for the people.
The above-mentioned definition shows that democracy entitles a person to the freedom of speech, action and grants him/her the legitimate right to chose his/her representative cum leader and in my view this is not contrary to the Islamic laws; instead this is what had been practiced by the Muslim rulers of the era that came to be known as the golden era of the Muslims. They used to take consent of the public in the form of âBaitâ and now it has taken the form of âvoteâ. So what do you find unislamic about it?
If you go into the depth of the concepts/ideologies preached by the west; youâll come to know that these ideologies were indeed laid down by the Muslims and were later on adopted by our nations with slight modifications.
So in my view Islam supports democracy!!! Am I right???
Democracy, what you refer to as JAMHURIAT, neither is unislamic nor is a 'product' of the west.
Democracy is the government of the people, by the people and for the people.
The above-mentioned definition shows that democracy entitles a person to the freedom of speech, action and grants him/her the legitimate right to chose his/her representative cum leader and in my view this is not contrary to the Islamic laws; instead this is what had been practiced by the Muslim rulers of the era that came to be known as the golden era of the Muslims. They used to take consent of the public in the form of âBaitâ and now it has taken the form of âvoteâ. So what do you find unislamic about it?
If you go into the depth of the concepts/ideologies preached by the west; youâll come to know that these ideologies were indeed laid down by the Muslims and were later on adopted by our nations with slight modifications.
So in my view Islam supports democracy!!! Am I right???
12-30-2007, 05:41 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> M. Amir
Democracy, what you refer to as JAMHURIAT, neither is unislamic nor is a 'product' of the west.
Democracy is the government of the people, by the people and for the people.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dear Astute please read once again above quoted lines, you said that Democracy is the Government of the people, by the people and for the people and you further added that it entitles a person to the freedom of speech, action and grants him/her the legitimate right, but Islam never give people Freedom to do whatever they want and hence Islam has imposed certain obligations on one person to be a 'Wali/Hakim/Ameer' this Wali hakim or ammer is not choosen by every one but this person has to be choosen by "Majlis-e-Shura" and this Majlis-e-Shura consists of people of knowledge(Ulema), Mohadeseen, Muhaqeqeen and the most nobel people thats why we call it as "SHURAIE System" and therefore Islam has Shuraie System not Democratic System...
In our religion there is no freedom of "Hawa-e-Hafs ki Peravee" and if we use democratic system and give every one right to choose his representative then majority of the votes casters will certainly not consist of most nobel people or people of knowledge aur yahin say kharabie shuru hoti hay...
The 'Bait' System you have pointed out was not similar to current voting system, in Bait system the Majlis-e-Shura decleare the person to be a Wali/Ameer of the certain area and this Wali or Ameer was not elected by people/neither he was accountable to people instead he was appointed by Majlis-e-Shura and he was accountable to Majlis however there was an opportunity for people of that particular area that they can register complains against Wali/Ameer if he was not working as per Shraiea Rulings...
Regards,
Muhammad Amir
Democracy, what you refer to as JAMHURIAT, neither is unislamic nor is a 'product' of the west.
Democracy is the government of the people, by the people and for the people.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dear Astute please read once again above quoted lines, you said that Democracy is the Government of the people, by the people and for the people and you further added that it entitles a person to the freedom of speech, action and grants him/her the legitimate right, but Islam never give people Freedom to do whatever they want and hence Islam has imposed certain obligations on one person to be a 'Wali/Hakim/Ameer' this Wali hakim or ammer is not choosen by every one but this person has to be choosen by "Majlis-e-Shura" and this Majlis-e-Shura consists of people of knowledge(Ulema), Mohadeseen, Muhaqeqeen and the most nobel people thats why we call it as "SHURAIE System" and therefore Islam has Shuraie System not Democratic System...
In our religion there is no freedom of "Hawa-e-Hafs ki Peravee" and if we use democratic system and give every one right to choose his representative then majority of the votes casters will certainly not consist of most nobel people or people of knowledge aur yahin say kharabie shuru hoti hay...
The 'Bait' System you have pointed out was not similar to current voting system, in Bait system the Majlis-e-Shura decleare the person to be a Wali/Ameer of the certain area and this Wali or Ameer was not elected by people/neither he was accountable to people instead he was appointed by Majlis-e-Shura and he was accountable to Majlis however there was an opportunity for people of that particular area that they can register complains against Wali/Ameer if he was not working as per Shraiea Rulings...
Regards,
Muhammad Amir
01-02-2008, 11:13 PM
Dear Amir,
Democracy certainly empowers public a freedom of speech and the consent of majority becomes a law. You are right that Islam has imposed certain limitations, but how come you concluded that a democracy working in the bounds of Islam can't exist? Our law says the same that any bill that is not in accordance with Islamic sharia can't be passed.
The system you referred to as the system of early Muslims is to be called aristocracy i.e. UMARA KI HAKUMAAT. The word umara might be confusing, it doesn't only include the rich but the prestigious ones no matter on the account of wealth, knowledge or any other thing. In my opinion early Islamic system was somewhat aristocratic. However, at the one and the same time, I can't disagree to one who says that Islam is democratic in essence. Democracy involves a process of consultation and the consent of democracy prevails. The question is who should be involved in the process of decision making; general public or selected ones.
Many people suggests Khilafat as a solution for present era's political crisis. I reckon that you are one of them. Now tell me how the majlis-e-shoora you referred to can be established today? I mean who are going to select its members? Can today's parliament be a substitute for that? Doesn't Islam has the ability to mould it self with time?
What I am trying to conclude is that your suggestion is not practicable. Name a single country or place in history after Hazrat Ali's time when similar khilafat was there as a system for governance. It is something else that Muslim's kept on calling Kingdon as Khilafat.
I am not a supporter of democracy as I find so my ills in it. But at the same time I can't think of any else system which is better than democracy.
My conclusions are similar to Quaid who said Islam in essence in democratic. And in the end I will quote
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Winston Churchill .
I can swear that I don't like democracy at all, but, it seems to be the only choice. However, for a democracy to be successful a literate and mature public is required, which, at least, is not our case.
Regards,
Shoaib
Democracy certainly empowers public a freedom of speech and the consent of majority becomes a law. You are right that Islam has imposed certain limitations, but how come you concluded that a democracy working in the bounds of Islam can't exist? Our law says the same that any bill that is not in accordance with Islamic sharia can't be passed.
The system you referred to as the system of early Muslims is to be called aristocracy i.e. UMARA KI HAKUMAAT. The word umara might be confusing, it doesn't only include the rich but the prestigious ones no matter on the account of wealth, knowledge or any other thing. In my opinion early Islamic system was somewhat aristocratic. However, at the one and the same time, I can't disagree to one who says that Islam is democratic in essence. Democracy involves a process of consultation and the consent of democracy prevails. The question is who should be involved in the process of decision making; general public or selected ones.
Many people suggests Khilafat as a solution for present era's political crisis. I reckon that you are one of them. Now tell me how the majlis-e-shoora you referred to can be established today? I mean who are going to select its members? Can today's parliament be a substitute for that? Doesn't Islam has the ability to mould it self with time?
What I am trying to conclude is that your suggestion is not practicable. Name a single country or place in history after Hazrat Ali's time when similar khilafat was there as a system for governance. It is something else that Muslim's kept on calling Kingdon as Khilafat.
I am not a supporter of democracy as I find so my ills in it. But at the same time I can't think of any else system which is better than democracy.
My conclusions are similar to Quaid who said Islam in essence in democratic. And in the end I will quote
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Winston Churchill .
I can swear that I don't like democracy at all, but, it seems to be the only choice. However, for a democracy to be successful a literate and mature public is required, which, at least, is not our case.
Regards,
Shoaib
01-05-2008, 05:15 AM
Dears I am also a supporter of Democracy but at the same time I agree to Schuaeb that there are so many ills in the current democratic system.Because in this system people are not weighted(in terms of knowledge and aamal) but are only counted.So especially in Pakistan where majority of people are illiterate and are not aware of even the basics of Islam,this systems looks a little controvercial.
I wonder if our parliment passes a bill,suppose that if it allows mercy killing in Pakistan,(which Islam doesn't allow) then will it become Islamic?
But still if we think we have no substitute and in my opinion this is almost impossible in todays era to have khilafat system because choosing the shura members will the first obstacle in its way,means what will be the procedure to choose its members?
So the only solution in my opinion is to enrich the people in education and islamic knowlede as well in order to enable them to differentiate between Haq and Batil,and it will automatically modify the current democratic system.
Regards,
Israr
I wonder if our parliment passes a bill,suppose that if it allows mercy killing in Pakistan,(which Islam doesn't allow) then will it become Islamic?
But still if we think we have no substitute and in my opinion this is almost impossible in todays era to have khilafat system because choosing the shura members will the first obstacle in its way,means what will be the procedure to choose its members?
So the only solution in my opinion is to enrich the people in education and islamic knowlede as well in order to enable them to differentiate between Haq and Batil,and it will automatically modify the current democratic system.
Regards,
Israr
01-06-2008, 06:46 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by israrhere</i>
<br />Dears I am also a supporter of Democracy but at the same time I agree to Schuaeb that there are so many ills in the current democratic system.Because in this system people are not weighted(in terms of knowledge and aamal) but are only counted.So especially in Pakistan where majority of people are illiterate and are not aware of even the basics of Islam,this systems looks a little controvercial.
I wonder if our parliment passes a bill,suppose that if it allows mercy killing in Pakistan,(which Islam doesn't allow) then will it become Islamic?
But still if we think we have no substitute and in my opinion this is almost impossible in todays era to have khilafat system because choosing the shura members will the first obstacle in its way,means what will be the procedure to choose its members?
So the only solution in my opinion is to enrich the people in education and islamic knowlede as well in order to enable them to differentiate between Haq and Batil,and it will automatically modify the current democratic system.
Regards,
Israr
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Agreed to your view.
But I must add here the democracy we had is never a solution to our problems, infact it had been the problem itself at the first place. Contrary to general statement, it will never mature itself into proper democracy. In fact our leadership, so called democratic, have always paved the path for autocrats. I regret but the regime of autocrats had been better. Untill there are BBs and Sharifs, my vote will be for generals.
<br />Dears I am also a supporter of Democracy but at the same time I agree to Schuaeb that there are so many ills in the current democratic system.Because in this system people are not weighted(in terms of knowledge and aamal) but are only counted.So especially in Pakistan where majority of people are illiterate and are not aware of even the basics of Islam,this systems looks a little controvercial.
I wonder if our parliment passes a bill,suppose that if it allows mercy killing in Pakistan,(which Islam doesn't allow) then will it become Islamic?
But still if we think we have no substitute and in my opinion this is almost impossible in todays era to have khilafat system because choosing the shura members will the first obstacle in its way,means what will be the procedure to choose its members?
So the only solution in my opinion is to enrich the people in education and islamic knowlede as well in order to enable them to differentiate between Haq and Batil,and it will automatically modify the current democratic system.
Regards,
Israr
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Agreed to your view.
But I must add here the democracy we had is never a solution to our problems, infact it had been the problem itself at the first place. Contrary to general statement, it will never mature itself into proper democracy. In fact our leadership, so called democratic, have always paved the path for autocrats. I regret but the regime of autocrats had been better. Untill there are BBs and Sharifs, my vote will be for generals.