02-03-2009, 03:36 AM
02-03-2009, 03:57 AM
Amir
My advise would be continue on with your career in accountancy, although a few years in an accountancy would give you a rounded experience, it is not the end of the world to start in 'industry' just the same. I can understand your desperation of not being able to start full time employment with a top notch accountancy firm. But you knew about this risk at the offset didn't you, you knew about the salaries/stipend levels. A lot of people do not go for chartered accountancy (ACA, ACCA) simply because it takes 6-8 years at the minimum to actually start earning, doctors, engineers, lawyers all make it in the paid work force much earlier. Moreover, you have passed most of your papers, so I gather you are mature enough not to trust, get bogged down what an HR personnel says ? you must talk to Chartered Accountants in practice, some on like Kamran is some one quite appropriate and I think his post is quite useful.
Let us know what you decide on, remember no matter how bad the economy is accountants are always required (maybe paid less in bad times)
My advise would be continue on with your career in accountancy, although a few years in an accountancy would give you a rounded experience, it is not the end of the world to start in 'industry' just the same. I can understand your desperation of not being able to start full time employment with a top notch accountancy firm. But you knew about this risk at the offset didn't you, you knew about the salaries/stipend levels. A lot of people do not go for chartered accountancy (ACA, ACCA) simply because it takes 6-8 years at the minimum to actually start earning, doctors, engineers, lawyers all make it in the paid work force much earlier. Moreover, you have passed most of your papers, so I gather you are mature enough not to trust, get bogged down what an HR personnel says ? you must talk to Chartered Accountants in practice, some on like Kamran is some one quite appropriate and I think his post is quite useful.
Let us know what you decide on, remember no matter how bad the economy is accountants are always required (maybe paid less in bad times)
02-03-2009, 06:14 AM
Dear, Mr. Kamran and Mr. Pracs I sent you PM please reply me.
First of all pay has never been an issue for me, I just write about 6,000 due to anger on audit firms. I meant to say that they only need to pay 6,000 to trainees but they are still trying to save this money by not recruiting enough trainees. I would happily work in audit firm even of they pay me not a single rupee. There is no alternative to the exposure earned while working in audit firm.
The truth is that ACCA has destroyed the charm of accountancy profession by treating every country in the same way. UK economy can afford 2,000 qualified accountants per half yearly but the same is not inevitably correct for Pakistan or for other developing countries. I am not worrying about myself only, I am worrying about those who are at their initial stages and who are just coming to join ACCA by some fake stereotypes of return on investment. Everyone can not afford to leave his parents, his motherland and his family just for the sake of some dollars & sterling. In my opinion the worth of dollars and sterling is not more than a toilet paper, if you are away from your people. No offence, just my opinion. Others may disagree.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Khaild moron originally wrote</i> You wanted to serve your country so Rabia gave you right advise to join army, but you want to join police so that you can make money. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
@ Khalid, joining army is not an advice of rabia. Army has been and it is a passion for me, just read first post of this thread http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=5672 I have nothing to say about your second statement, I just say, "This is your intellectual level".
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> <i>Khaild moron originally wrote</i> Secondly even if ICAEW pay me, I am not crying like you for money. If you are not getting job after ACCA its means you need to polish your communication skills. You currently cannot present yourself properly <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thank you sir, I always welcome advices from intellects like you. I hope you will point out some other pitfalls in future.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Khaild moron originally wrote</i> He says in bank quality people do not work, so he is saying people working in banks and companies like shell, PSO. PTCL, TOTAL etc are not quality. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I am sorry to say sir, those who work in banks (consumer banks not investment banks) are just clerks.
My last message to those who are following intellects like khalid is that things are not that simple and easy. I repeat, things are not that simple and easy. It is better to keep your day dreams in limit, so that you can save yourself from future hardship.
Wassalam & Duago
Muhammad Amir
First of all pay has never been an issue for me, I just write about 6,000 due to anger on audit firms. I meant to say that they only need to pay 6,000 to trainees but they are still trying to save this money by not recruiting enough trainees. I would happily work in audit firm even of they pay me not a single rupee. There is no alternative to the exposure earned while working in audit firm.
The truth is that ACCA has destroyed the charm of accountancy profession by treating every country in the same way. UK economy can afford 2,000 qualified accountants per half yearly but the same is not inevitably correct for Pakistan or for other developing countries. I am not worrying about myself only, I am worrying about those who are at their initial stages and who are just coming to join ACCA by some fake stereotypes of return on investment. Everyone can not afford to leave his parents, his motherland and his family just for the sake of some dollars & sterling. In my opinion the worth of dollars and sterling is not more than a toilet paper, if you are away from your people. No offence, just my opinion. Others may disagree.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Khaild moron originally wrote</i> You wanted to serve your country so Rabia gave you right advise to join army, but you want to join police so that you can make money. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
@ Khalid, joining army is not an advice of rabia. Army has been and it is a passion for me, just read first post of this thread http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=5672 I have nothing to say about your second statement, I just say, "This is your intellectual level".
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> <i>Khaild moron originally wrote</i> Secondly even if ICAEW pay me, I am not crying like you for money. If you are not getting job after ACCA its means you need to polish your communication skills. You currently cannot present yourself properly <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thank you sir, I always welcome advices from intellects like you. I hope you will point out some other pitfalls in future.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Khaild moron originally wrote</i> He says in bank quality people do not work, so he is saying people working in banks and companies like shell, PSO. PTCL, TOTAL etc are not quality. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I am sorry to say sir, those who work in banks (consumer banks not investment banks) are just clerks.
My last message to those who are following intellects like khalid is that things are not that simple and easy. I repeat, things are not that simple and easy. It is better to keep your day dreams in limit, so that you can save yourself from future hardship.
Wassalam & Duago
Muhammad Amir
02-03-2009, 08:12 AM
I have mentioned it agian, and I am repeating it again that ACCA launched itself in 1995 and by the end of 2008 means ater 13 yrs ACCA has only 700 members and 1,100 affliciate. so your claim that 2000 people qualify a yr in Pakistan is wrong. Even 2000 ACCA do not qualiy in UK. Secondly ACCA mark it papers on standard not on qota. There are many ACCA Aliciate who got training in big 4.
Secondly if you think all retail banking employees are clerk, then again I have nothing to say. If money is like a toilet paper or you then y are you crying for money. man.
Khalid
Secondly if you think all retail banking employees are clerk, then again I have nothing to say. If money is like a toilet paper or you then y are you crying for money. man.
Khalid
02-03-2009, 08:14 AM
<b><font color="red">The tone of some of the messages on this thread is close to being downright abusive towards other posters.
This is a friendly reminder to all posters to be polite and respectful towards your fellow members and their opinions, otherwise we will have no option but to take appropriate measures.</font id="red"></b>
This is a friendly reminder to all posters to be polite and respectful towards your fellow members and their opinions, otherwise we will have no option but to take appropriate measures.</font id="red"></b>
02-03-2009, 08:14 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Shahbaz</i>
<br />@^
Yes because women these days are following the western fashion. They use less of clothing which ultimately results in lesser demand. [D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Shahbaz
Are you man or mouse, please let me know
<br />@^
Yes because women these days are following the western fashion. They use less of clothing which ultimately results in lesser demand. [D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Shahbaz
Are you man or mouse, please let me know
02-03-2009, 05:05 PM
dont insult a mouse mr khalid. he feels like this because he is surrounded by such women.
02-03-2009, 05:12 PM
Rabia,
You can see mental level of so called professional in Pakistan and they are the people who are persuading others and ACCA what should they do.
You can see mental level of so called professional in Pakistan and they are the people who are persuading others and ACCA what should they do.
02-03-2009, 05:13 PM
Dears,
I think the friendly reminder of Admin should be taken seriously. We should try to avoid words like parrot or mouse. It will not bring the good results. The sentences written by Shahbaz are based upon a very commonly circulated joke. We should not narrow our view to very general things. He definitely has not written it for Rabia. It has nothing to do with some one's mental level. I am suspecious about the mental level which takes it nagetively. I wonder if they don't have such cheerful things in their life. It's also strange that the critics don't feel they are Pakistanis. I think we should change the attitudes little bit.
Amir,
I will definitely reply your PM. The people working in commercial banks are not just clerks although so many clerks also work there. You can find some accounting legends in such banks. Don't base your conclusion on the staff working at branches which is mostly the clerical staff.
Khalid,
There are not a very few local companies in Pakistan. Your conclusion is wrong. You cannot even count listed concerns on your fingers. Unlisted and private limited are enormous. BTW how many fingers you have on your hands?
Further, due to undocumented economy, so many people don't opt to get corporatized at all despite having billions of turnover and so many qualified professionals of different disciplines. You may have concern over such businesses but they some how manage their issues and remain as such. And yes, they are paying salaries even more than the corporatized entities so people of all fields have attractions to work with them.
The employer can identify the origin of any ACCA applicant from CVs. I wonder if in UK CVs and work/qualification history of applicants are not considered for recruitments.
I would appreciate if you refer me some link to study the case you are discussing. I mean case between ICAP and ACCA.
No body says that ICAP is last thing in Pakistan. Yes it is better positioned locally when you compare it with any other qualification. This is natural. I don't know if you could understand it.
It's great to hear about the snowfall at your surroundings. I love this weather.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
I think the friendly reminder of Admin should be taken seriously. We should try to avoid words like parrot or mouse. It will not bring the good results. The sentences written by Shahbaz are based upon a very commonly circulated joke. We should not narrow our view to very general things. He definitely has not written it for Rabia. It has nothing to do with some one's mental level. I am suspecious about the mental level which takes it nagetively. I wonder if they don't have such cheerful things in their life. It's also strange that the critics don't feel they are Pakistanis. I think we should change the attitudes little bit.
Amir,
I will definitely reply your PM. The people working in commercial banks are not just clerks although so many clerks also work there. You can find some accounting legends in such banks. Don't base your conclusion on the staff working at branches which is mostly the clerical staff.
Khalid,
There are not a very few local companies in Pakistan. Your conclusion is wrong. You cannot even count listed concerns on your fingers. Unlisted and private limited are enormous. BTW how many fingers you have on your hands?
Further, due to undocumented economy, so many people don't opt to get corporatized at all despite having billions of turnover and so many qualified professionals of different disciplines. You may have concern over such businesses but they some how manage their issues and remain as such. And yes, they are paying salaries even more than the corporatized entities so people of all fields have attractions to work with them.
The employer can identify the origin of any ACCA applicant from CVs. I wonder if in UK CVs and work/qualification history of applicants are not considered for recruitments.
I would appreciate if you refer me some link to study the case you are discussing. I mean case between ICAP and ACCA.
No body says that ICAP is last thing in Pakistan. Yes it is better positioned locally when you compare it with any other qualification. This is natural. I don't know if you could understand it.
It's great to hear about the snowfall at your surroundings. I love this weather.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
02-03-2009, 05:16 PM
this time we have ACCA paper (P2) winner from pakistan. mohammed azhar azim associate auidt and assurance E&Y pakistan. congrats to him.
02-03-2009, 05:21 PM
I think I am off today again.
Come on Kamran, even ICAP members are going to Dubai, about 70% ICAP members are working in firms. There are only few local companies in pakistan. Almost all ACCA members in Pakistan are working in big companies. Can you point out single ACCA member in Pakistan who is not drawning handsome amount.
Come on Kamran, even ICAP members are going to Dubai, about 70% ICAP members are working in firms. There are only few local companies in pakistan. Almost all ACCA members in Pakistan are working in big companies. Can you point out single ACCA member in Pakistan who is not drawning handsome amount.
02-03-2009, 05:22 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />Kamran
Also expalin to rabia. how many exemption were available to ACCA from ICAP till 2000. Why ICAP took those exemptions back. Y ICAP went to court in March 2000 so that ICAp further reduce ACCA exemptions, Y ICAP wanted to reduce further exemptions. And Y ICAP lost case in court.
Khalid
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Please answer above post as well.
Khalid
<br />Kamran
Also expalin to rabia. how many exemption were available to ACCA from ICAP till 2000. Why ICAP took those exemptions back. Y ICAP went to court in March 2000 so that ICAp further reduce ACCA exemptions, Y ICAP wanted to reduce further exemptions. And Y ICAP lost case in court.
Khalid
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Please answer above post as well.
Khalid
02-03-2009, 05:23 PM
Rabia,
You just mix up the term rare cases. I have told you that such analysis is only made for the localized market demand.
It's a pleasure however to hear about Mr. Azhar Azim. Congrats to him.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
02-03-2009, 05:25 PM
Rabia, y bothor, E&Y is not nice firm, ACCA in Pakistan cannot find nice jobs, so do not worry about EY.
Khalid
Khalid
02-03-2009, 05:26 PM
mr kamran i am only gave this info because he is a pakistani student. anyways i think i got mixed up with the rare case analysis. so i will edit my post.
thanks
thanks