Hello Everyone
Once again the comparasion b/w CA & ACCA brings about an interesting debate on this forum!
Well I would like to say a couple of things here ... CA's certainly have had a monopoly in Pakistan. There is no denying that. But the very basis of it has been 2 factors.
1) ICAP has been a established institute in Pakistan for Accountants since 1956, when it was founded with the help of the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants and ACCA has only been "Popularized" in Pakistan for approx. 7 years now. So most of the upper hierarchy working in good firms and companies are qualified CA's and are aware of all the "Ragra" and hardwork that goes into CA, with time ACCA qualification is also picking up market. I mean if we look back to 5 years back only a handfull of people were aware of any such body as the ACCA! and obviously noone was really aware of the standard of accountants that the "New Body" was producing. So hopefully say, in another 5 years time ACCA's would also be in demand. May or Maybe not as much as the CA's.
2) ACCA students dont have ANY exposure to the Pakistan Tax laws or the Corporate Law. Hence isnt it obvious who an employer would prefer to work in an environment like this, which is obviously more suited to CA's coz accountants are no longer just bookkeepers. They have to be more dynamic and look at several other aspects of the business as well and Taxation and compliance with law of the land are very very important aspects when considering a practical environment. I heard that from December 2004 ACCA is also introducing the Pakistani Tax and Law variants, so inshALLAH the major hurdle to Pakistani ACCA's would be solved.
SMR, Sumaan and others I think we are all professionals here and do know that no qualification is easy to attain. A certain amount of hardwork is necassary even if someone wants to be a cook or a chowkidar and that should be respected.
As for your question SMR, I think you would also be aware that no ICAEW qualified CA can become a partner in Pakistani firm unless he clears ICAPS Pakistani LAw and Tax papers. If you dont see the point of that or realise the fact that compliance to laws as well as taxation of the environment you are working in, as an important aspect of an accountants work then I guess people are right in judging that ACCA's are indeed inferior to CA's but honestly speaking I think that both are equally well equipt to deal with matters pertaining accounting or audit, so the only place ACCA's lack is the knowledge of local Tax and Corporate laws.
Some one mentioned here that CA's are more preffered then ACCA's due to their article training. No doubt that Articles prepare a person very well for dealing with intricate matters relating to a business but what that person has discounted (or doesnt know) is that ACCA also is not offering its "Full membership" without a 3 years logged work experience. Hence I would say that if one wants to concentrate on a particular sector or company then they are better off working in that sector and gaining practical knowledge of the systems and requirements of the particular industry. Over here I totally agree with Guybrush that a fully qualified ACCA(Affiliate) is nothing worth nothing in the job market coz he doesnt know the practical inns and outs whereas an article complete CA(Inter) is much better of coz he has come through the 4 years ragra of articles and even the dumbest of persons tends to pick up a few things in that amount of time.
I hope that my reply satisfies all. In the end I would like to wish all the best to everyone in their persuits of ACCA, CA, ICMA, MBA or CIMA qualifications . Best of Luck and keep working hard. A very HAPPY NEW YEAR to all of you.
OSA
salaam all
i agree tht no qualification should b underestimated. in my opinion, the main prob tht ACCAs face is abt the pakistani taxation laws bt i m sure tht things will get smoother after the arrival of variant pprs. i think tht whenever a new thing enters the system, it is opposed by the pre-existing factors ... this iz quite natural ... bt as the time passes, n as the new commer puts up enough efforts, it gets stable n stable. same is the case with ACCA ... i totally agree tht in comming future, say next 5-7 yrs, ACCA will have penetrated a lot ...
i dont mean ne offence 2 ne1 ... u have full right 2 disagree with me.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
FARHAN
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>SMR, Sumaan and others I think we are all professionals here and do know that no qualification is easy to attain. A certain amount of hardwork is necassary even if someone wants to be a cook or a chowkidar and that should be respected. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>
Yes Omar, that no qualification is easy to attain, every qualification is difficult, but the level of difficulty is not the same, same is the case with CA and ACCA, In ACCA you have your prescribed Syllabus, but In CA on the day of Exam, you can never be sure about the exam, that from where the examinar is going to ask the question, and second thing is the passing policy of ICAP, (I think which plays a vital role),
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>As for your question SMR, I think you would also be aware that no ICAEW qualified CA can become a partner in Pakistani firm unless he clears ICAPS Pakistani LAw and Tax papers. If you dont see the point of that or realise the fact that compliance to laws as well as taxation of the environment you are working in, as an important aspect of an accountants work then I guess people are right in judging that ACCA's are indeed inferior to CA's but honestly speaking I think that both are equally well equipt to deal with matters pertaining accounting or audit, so the only place ACCA's lack is the knowledge of local Tax and Corporate laws.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>
Agreed and Same is the case with ACCAs, they also have to appear in same papers, but ICEAW are still preferred to ACCAs, the positions of both is same like we have the positions of CAs and ACMAs in Pakistan.
SMR
Salaam, Wish u all a contended, jubilant and successful new year.
I totally agree with GuyBrush, but I am so demotivated by the low stipends that Audit Firms offer to trainees, had this factor be improved a lot better human resource can be furbished in abundance. Many ACCAs are on articleship training currently in Pakistan, qualified and part-qualified. Many had made combinition of the qualification with CISA and working as IS Auditors.
Even though I am personally so much inclined to gain Articleship experience, but Im unable to this | because of personal reasons. I wish Big 4 Firms revise their stipends offerings to trainees to make them compatible with industry offerings.
Adios
saar
Why dont all u ACCA students talk to ACCA Pakistan office and tell them to discuss with the leading firms regarding the stipend issue?
________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
Hello
I think its safe to expect that when members talk, they talk solid (backed by evidence) otherwise keep quite and donât disclose their lack of knowledge.
I have worked in two accountancy practices in UK as a qualified ACCA member excluding the first practice where I was trainee and unqualified. On each of the two occasions the job was advertised in national press, I applied, got the interview and had the job. Number of ICEAW qualifieds also applied and were interviewed, but the firms entrusted me with the top position in tax and audit, Thanks to Allah. Well, my experience doesnot support the view given by SMR, I always(yes always)got the job I applied for despite other ICEAW members running for the same job.
Finally for the benefit of students who ask about getting into AFF. I once applied to AFF before coming to UK. I went to AFF office Bank Road in Pindi, now it has moved to Islamabad. They gave me a cost accounting based test. Few days later I got the interview call, Mr. Rattansay was the partner who interviewed and days later got the trainee position. I turned down the position with thanks as I was already geared up for IBA. My friends, I did not have a very brilliant educational background, nor I had any SAFARISH, I used to be working in SUBZI MANDI in Raja Bazaar as a labourer,,,, but got the job without even any PAWA. My collage friends did come to the same interview armed with PAWAS, but the trainee position came to meâ¦.. SO if I can do it, sure can you do it as well. People who say otherwise are probably telling you of their personal experiences which are rare. Merit still rules the profession.
And yes always remember
The greatest danger for most of us (including myself) is not that our aim is too high and we miss it,,,,,,but that it is too low and we reach it.
Thanks
Zubair
Well, some members posted really informative,open minded and genuine remarks, Guybrush and Omar are two of the many.
as far as i think guyz...its not that CA is muhc tougher than AccA...and according to most of the people..a person who doesnt go for CA after AccA is a dumbheaD!!whats make CA tougher in the eyes of most ppl is just the difference between passing criteria of both the orgs....ACCA passes you go above 50% on the other hand CA students are passed keeping a specific quota in mind...which definitely looks at safeguarding the local mkt from getting saturated...plus i guess all of u know two swords cant stay in the same cover without striking...CA exists in pakistan since the 70's as far as i know..ACCA is new here and definitely it asks for its share of jobs from the market..so there is a natural clash between the two orgs...all the heads of good orgs such as fergusons and as they themselves are CAs they only prefrer CAs until an ACCA shows up with a strong reference from someone...but this is a hell of a debate...and muqi loves brainstorming..
I live to die but the day i die i shal i die to live.
TaBi
hi there everyone.. well going through all the things well expressing my opinion which might not be absolute )
my many friends in the forum said that ACCA is a short cut.. and CA is much practical work.. well then it striked my mind from all the comments passed by everyone the best route for CA is then ACCA which should be followed up by 4 years training of CA...
in this way one would get the latest from the educational and from the practical side as well
so for all the guys out there ... i agree to tayyab(hathora) that one should start off with ACCA and after completion go on for CA ... articles ....
what do you think??
Muqtader Abbas Shah
Hi Muqtader
Re Your last post. If you planning to work in pakistan only, yes go for ICAP. In the international markets...... well, ICAP is helpful but you have to weigh up the benefits and costs of addtional time needed and all that stuff. mind you one only have a limited opening up time in professional life.
Having lunch today, I was reading some professional material, i came across an advert, its interesting and might be useful for other members,,,,, Due to the copyright I cant reproduce a scanned copy but one has to see the actual advert, to appreciate the market available to Affiliates.....
Flemmings (a well know firm of ICAEW qualifieds)
has advertised for 15 ACCA Affiliates (I believe with no experience) to join in the rapidly expanding enviornment. I dont know why they did not ask for ICAEW trainees...... can someone comment....
website is
www.flemmings.co.uk
It is VERY CLEARLY Mentioned that firm will consider OVERSEAS APPLICANSTS. You can apply online as well. but please please your CV must be professional, otherwise it will be straight to rubbish bin.
Thanks
zubair
Yes Zubair, if u look at the crieteria of hiring of Flemmings, for ACCA Affiliates they require "First time excellent passes in All ACCA papers" (Same for CIMA) but there is no such restriction for ACAs.
offence not intended, but u will have to admit that comparing the ACCA with CA is not justified.
SMR
Hi RAZA
Once, one my very good teachers in Punjab university said that you have to learn later or sooner in life to make statements in such a diplomatic way that you dont you have to use the words like I am sorry. I believe the statement "no offence intended" also comes in the same catagory. Having said that you said no offence intended and I took note.
To be quite honest, we are all starters here. I dont think you or anybody on this forum has the skills, competance and exposure to make such judgements which you are trying to make. Such judgements can be made by senior professionals having an international exposure and you are not one of them at this stage, even I am not one of them either. All we can do is to share our experiences and information to make this place a better medium to share information. Amidst doing that, if you start to feel that you have suddenly jumpled over K2 then best of luck in your next jump.
Thanks
zubair
Hey Zubair, Common yaar,
cheer up, every body has its own point of view, different opinion, its not necessary that everybody must agree with that, dont take it serious yaar, if i said something which hurt your emotions, then i m really really sorry for that. Here are lots of smileys for you. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
SMR
Thanks for the smiles SMR. First days of the new year and getting smiles from guys....Allah Khar kara.
Thank
zubair
The difference is that by doing ACCA u can find ur career in many countries including UK. As companies in UK are going to adopt in ternational accounting standards from januray 2005, so there is need internationally in world for ACCA-international stream people. but by doing CA in pak, u can find a good job in pak, but it will take a lot of time n patience, and within that period u cant find a good job except crawling articleship. so if any one wana internationally accepted person so he should go for ACCA, but as i'm ACCA student, i'll give u a warning of finances, it will require a lot of.
<font face='Verdana'>
salaam all,
discussions abt ACA n ACCA have always been hot in this forum ... n both the schools of thought r trying 2 degrade or underestimate the other ... well, this is a wild goose chase, bcoz i agree with many of my fellow members tht every qualification has its own value n attitude ... i want 2 share my personal views here n plz dont take it personally ... i m not doing ne of these two things (ACCA or ACA)
i notice tht my fellows from ACA group have a bit more aggressive attitude towards ACCA ... some say tht ACCA is a shortcut, some say tht it iz a back-door-entry into ACA, some say ACCA iz very easier thn ACA etc etc etc.
well, u might think of my comments as biased , but this iz how i feel abt things. let us take two cases tht lead to an ACA
case-A intermediate -> join ICAP -> ACA
case-B intermediate -> graduation(BBA/B.Comm/etc etc) -> get ACCA -> join ICAP -> ACA
here, i think tht a peron from route-B worths more thn a person from route-A ... let me expalin why ...
in route-B, u r not "just" an ACA ... u have internationally covetted ACCA in ur hands, plus, u have a professional graduation degree in ur hand. in case of route-A, u r "just" an ACA. u dont have ne other professional qualification in hand tht is internationally recognized n accepted (like ACCA). n as far as i know (plz correct me if i m wrong), ACA of pakistan iz not recognized in "all" countries. plus, u dont have a professional graduation even.
so dont u think tht route-B is far better by every aspect??? u have every thing in ur hand, from national 2 international??? plus a graduation as well??? n in terms of time???(coz some mmbs commented tht ACCA->ACA route is shorter)??? while in route-A, u r just an inter-pass person with ACA (not even elegibe for elections))???, just kidding!!!)???
so come on friends, do away with this useless discussion tht who is better thn whom. b +ve, do respect n get respected.
this was just how i see the things, no intensions 2 hurt ne1.
salaaaam (Y)
</font id='Verdana'>
FARHAN