04-10-2010, 08:18 PM
04-11-2010, 12:55 AM
Wonderful!!
Where are our Ulemas; show them the true picture.
Where are our Ulemas; show them the true picture.
04-13-2010, 12:51 AM
I have really never understood the "dargah culture." bowing down in front of a grave, keeping in mind the dead man in the grave is himself unaware whether he will be going to hell or heaven. they are not Prophets so they can't be sinless.
these places seem like vice dens frequented by druggies, men and women performing funny dance like acts. why invoke a dead person for ones needs?
these places seem like vice dens frequented by druggies, men and women performing funny dance like acts. why invoke a dead person for ones needs?
04-13-2010, 03:51 AM
Rabia,
A muslim must not bow his head in front of any one except ALLAH. It's the basic feature of faith and we cannot at any cost deviate from it.
As far as dargahs are concerned, these are sacred for many reasons; yet Islam has provided a very clear roadmap to safegaurd the faith and avoid shirak.
We may not be perfect in knowledge and Allah knows every thing best.
Regards,
A muslim must not bow his head in front of any one except ALLAH. It's the basic feature of faith and we cannot at any cost deviate from it.
As far as dargahs are concerned, these are sacred for many reasons; yet Islam has provided a very clear roadmap to safegaurd the faith and avoid shirak.
We may not be perfect in knowledge and Allah knows every thing best.
Regards,
04-13-2010, 03:18 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Rabia,
A muslim must not bow his head in front of any one except ALLAH. It's the basic feature of faith and we cannot at any cost deviate from it.
As far as dargahs are concerned, these are sacred for many reasons; yet Islam has provided a very clear roadmap to safegaurd the faith and avoid shirak.
We may not be perfect in knowledge and Allah knows every thing best.
Regards,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Good post.
There is alot of that going on in Pakistan. Having lived in Saudi arabia, never saw anything like that. Apart from what happens there, ones gotta use his or her own brain. People ask the dead to pray for them as they say they were Allahs closest people e.t.c
First off, noone knows for sure who s close to Allah and not, secondly, if the dead person could pray for us...why would he/she not pray for him/her self? The making dua part, the asking for maghfirat part is over once you ve passed away. That person is need of our prayers and not the other way around.
Unfortunately there s wayy too much illiteracy here in Pakistan and people are simply blind folded.
<br />Rabia,
A muslim must not bow his head in front of any one except ALLAH. It's the basic feature of faith and we cannot at any cost deviate from it.
As far as dargahs are concerned, these are sacred for many reasons; yet Islam has provided a very clear roadmap to safegaurd the faith and avoid shirak.
We may not be perfect in knowledge and Allah knows every thing best.
Regards,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Good post.
There is alot of that going on in Pakistan. Having lived in Saudi arabia, never saw anything like that. Apart from what happens there, ones gotta use his or her own brain. People ask the dead to pray for them as they say they were Allahs closest people e.t.c
First off, noone knows for sure who s close to Allah and not, secondly, if the dead person could pray for us...why would he/she not pray for him/her self? The making dua part, the asking for maghfirat part is over once you ve passed away. That person is need of our prayers and not the other way around.
Unfortunately there s wayy too much illiteracy here in Pakistan and people are simply blind folded.
04-13-2010, 06:07 PM
ACCAite
The most advanced nations of the world do a lot of things which if for a moment analyzed will be concluded as the most illiterate. You have roamed around and I guess there is no need to provide detailed examples of the non-sense that the advanced world does not even term as non-sense or illiteracy. I have witnessed number of instances where the super power nations had acted blind folded.
I guess beliefs must not be connected with illiteracy thing; since it has nothing to do with backwardness or illiteracy etc. The most criticized religions and faiths of the world (in the eyes of people at our region) are, and have been, followed by the most learned and educated people around.
Faith; as it speaks is something which we believe based upon our own parameters, understanding, observation etc and remain unaffected regardless of whatever proofs contrary to the faith we follow are shown to us. The thing that can change for arguments and remains alterable is not a Faith in pure terms. To agree on a well proven and scientifically known thing may not crudely be termed as faith as well.
Faith is always influenced by the ancestors, people who surround us, generalized practices, states of mind and lot more by traditions of a specific area. Thatâs why you will see various sets of practices under same FAITH and same Religion at different locations of the world.
Rarely the people challenge their inherited faith, social traditions and set of generalized practices of the people surrounding them, and try to apply mind and find out something new and logical (again as per their own understanding). And yes, they have to pay its cost for deviating from their ancestral roadmap. History is full of such stories.
I am not discussing any specific religion; rather am trying to write something on the philosophy of human feelings, beliefs and faith, regardless of whatever it is.
As much we can crack jokes on people having lots of gods, as can they revert doing same with our belief in one God. As much we can laugh on people bowing heads in Dargahs, as can they do it for the others. At this moment, I recalled the golden saying of Prophet Peace Be upon Him where he (PBUH) prohibited the muslims to abuse the falsified gods of others for the reason that it can revert with same reaction. (Mafhoom of a Hadees).
I am of the firm view that none of the faith (if it is really a faith and not something to take an advantageous position) should be termed as a product of illiteracy. I hope people can understand what I wanted to say.
Faith is a revelation one thread of which is unexplored and unknown in all cases.
May Allah bless the mankind with perfect faith and make us to follow what he desires. (Again a prayer as per my understanding and faith!!!).
Regards,
KAMRAN.
04-13-2010, 06:23 PM
i once had same opinion as said by ACCAite
but things changed very suddenly
as i myself had some personal experinces
which made me beleave that
kuch log mar k bhi nahi mertay
and
kuch ki zindagi murdoon say bhi badter hoti hain
as is said by Bullah Shah
way Bullayeah ussaan marna nahi
goor paya koi hore
many other Suffi's and walli's have said things like that too
a mature way to visit any dargah/mazar of some one known as walli/buzurg is simplelike that
say Assalam-o-Alaikum in ur heart, offer fatheha and then say what u want to say voicelessly
cause prayers of these people (being friend of God Almighty) are more likely to be accepted.
as every one knows naik loggon ki duwain jald kabool hoti hain and gunnah garoon ki dair say
i dont want to go in more details so will just end by saying this
IS DUNIYA K ILLAWA BHI BOHAT SI DUNIYAH HAIN BUSS HAM LOG APNI DIL KI ANKH SAY DAIKHNAY KI TAQAT NAHI REKHTAY SO UN K WAJOOD SAY INQARI HOTAY HAIN
HOWEVER OUR DENYING SOME THING DOESNT MEAN K THAT THING DOESNT EXIST
last thing no doubt that bowing before grave/dance and quallies at there it is obviously against islam but a person inside the grave can not be blammed for this
but things changed very suddenly
as i myself had some personal experinces
which made me beleave that
kuch log mar k bhi nahi mertay
and
kuch ki zindagi murdoon say bhi badter hoti hain
as is said by Bullah Shah
way Bullayeah ussaan marna nahi
goor paya koi hore
many other Suffi's and walli's have said things like that too
a mature way to visit any dargah/mazar of some one known as walli/buzurg is simplelike that
say Assalam-o-Alaikum in ur heart, offer fatheha and then say what u want to say voicelessly
cause prayers of these people (being friend of God Almighty) are more likely to be accepted.
as every one knows naik loggon ki duwain jald kabool hoti hain and gunnah garoon ki dair say
i dont want to go in more details so will just end by saying this
IS DUNIYA K ILLAWA BHI BOHAT SI DUNIYAH HAIN BUSS HAM LOG APNI DIL KI ANKH SAY DAIKHNAY KI TAQAT NAHI REKHTAY SO UN K WAJOOD SAY INQARI HOTAY HAIN
HOWEVER OUR DENYING SOME THING DOESNT MEAN K THAT THING DOESNT EXIST
last thing no doubt that bowing before grave/dance and quallies at there it is obviously against islam but a person inside the grave can not be blammed for this
04-14-2010, 05:24 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />
ACCAite
The most advanced nations of the world do a lot of things which if for a moment analyzed will be concluded as the most illiterate. You have roamed around and I guess there is no need to provide detailed examples of the non-sense that the advanced world does not even term as non-sense or illiteracy. I have witnessed number of instances where the super power nations had acted blind folded.
I guess beliefs must not be connected with illiteracy thing; since it has nothing to do with backwardness or illiteracy etc. The most criticized religions and faiths of the world (in the eyes of people at our region) are, and have been, followed by the most learned and educated people around.
Faith; as it speaks is something which we believe based upon our own parameters, understanding, observation etc and remain unaffected regardless of whatever proofs contrary to the faith we follow are shown to us. The thing that can change for arguments and remains alterable is not a Faith in pure terms. To agree on a well proven and scientifically known thing may not crudely be termed as faith as well.
Faith is always influenced by the ancestors, people who surround us, generalized practices, states of mind and lot more by traditions of a specific area. Thatâs why you will see various sets of practices under same FAITH and same Religion at different locations of the world.
Rarely the people challenge their inherited faith, social traditions and set of generalized practices of the people surrounding them, and try to apply mind and find out something new and logical (again as per their own understanding). And yes, they have to pay its cost for deviating from their ancestral roadmap. History is full of such stories.
I am not discussing any specific religion; rather am trying to write something on the philosophy of human feelings, beliefs and faith, regardless of whatever it is.
As much we can crack jokes on people having lots of gods, as can they revert doing same with our belief in one God. As much we can laugh on people bowing heads in Dargahs, as can they do it for the others. At this moment, I recalled the golden saying of Prophet Peace Be upon Him where he (PBUH) prohibited the muslims to abuse the falsified gods of others for the reason that it can revert with same reaction. (Mafhoom of a Hadees).
I am of the firm view that none of the faith (if it is really a faith and not something to take an advantageous position) should be termed as a product of illiteracy. I hope people can understand what I wanted to say.
Faith is a revelation one thread of which is unexplored and unknown in all cases.
May Allah bless the mankind with perfect faith and make us to follow what he desires. (Again a prayer as per my understanding and faith!!!).
Regards,
KAMRAN.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<br />
ACCAite
The most advanced nations of the world do a lot of things which if for a moment analyzed will be concluded as the most illiterate. You have roamed around and I guess there is no need to provide detailed examples of the non-sense that the advanced world does not even term as non-sense or illiteracy. I have witnessed number of instances where the super power nations had acted blind folded.
I guess beliefs must not be connected with illiteracy thing; since it has nothing to do with backwardness or illiteracy etc. The most criticized religions and faiths of the world (in the eyes of people at our region) are, and have been, followed by the most learned and educated people around.
Faith; as it speaks is something which we believe based upon our own parameters, understanding, observation etc and remain unaffected regardless of whatever proofs contrary to the faith we follow are shown to us. The thing that can change for arguments and remains alterable is not a Faith in pure terms. To agree on a well proven and scientifically known thing may not crudely be termed as faith as well.
Faith is always influenced by the ancestors, people who surround us, generalized practices, states of mind and lot more by traditions of a specific area. Thatâs why you will see various sets of practices under same FAITH and same Religion at different locations of the world.
Rarely the people challenge their inherited faith, social traditions and set of generalized practices of the people surrounding them, and try to apply mind and find out something new and logical (again as per their own understanding). And yes, they have to pay its cost for deviating from their ancestral roadmap. History is full of such stories.
I am not discussing any specific religion; rather am trying to write something on the philosophy of human feelings, beliefs and faith, regardless of whatever it is.
As much we can crack jokes on people having lots of gods, as can they revert doing same with our belief in one God. As much we can laugh on people bowing heads in Dargahs, as can they do it for the others. At this moment, I recalled the golden saying of Prophet Peace Be upon Him where he (PBUH) prohibited the muslims to abuse the falsified gods of others for the reason that it can revert with same reaction. (Mafhoom of a Hadees).
I am of the firm view that none of the faith (if it is really a faith and not something to take an advantageous position) should be termed as a product of illiteracy. I hope people can understand what I wanted to say.
Faith is a revelation one thread of which is unexplored and unknown in all cases.
May Allah bless the mankind with perfect faith and make us to follow what he desires. (Again a prayer as per my understanding and faith!!!).
Regards,
KAMRAN.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
04-14-2010, 05:36 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />
ACCAite
The most advanced nations of the world do a lot of things which if for a moment analyzed will be concluded as the most illiterate. You have roamed around and I guess there is no need to provide detailed examples of the non-sense that the advanced world does not even term as non-sense or illiteracy. I have witnessed number of instances where the super power nations had acted blind folded.
I guess beliefs must not be connected with illiteracy thing; since it has nothing to do with backwardness or illiteracy etc. The most criticized religions and faiths of the world (in the eyes of people at our region) are, and have been, followed by the most learned and educated people around.
Faith; as it speaks is something which we believe based upon our own parameters, understanding, observation etc and remain unaffected regardless of whatever proofs contrary to the faith we follow are shown to us. The thing that can change for arguments and remains alterable is not a Faith in pure terms. To agree on a well proven and scientifically known thing may not crudely be termed as faith as well.
Faith is always influenced by the ancestors, people who surround us, generalized practices, states of mind and lot more by traditions of a specific area. Thatâs why you will see various sets of practices under same FAITH and same Religion at different locations of the world.
Rarely the people challenge their inherited faith, social traditions and set of generalized practices of the people surrounding them, and try to apply mind and find out something new and logical (again as per their own understanding). And yes, they have to pay its cost for deviating from their ancestral roadmap. History is full of such stories.
I am not discussing any specific religion; rather am trying to write something on the philosophy of human feelings, beliefs and faith, regardless of whatever it is.
As much we can crack jokes on people having lots of gods, as can they revert doing same with our belief in one God. As much we can laugh on people bowing heads in Dargahs, as can they do it for the others. At this moment, I recalled the golden saying of Prophet Peace Be upon Him where he (PBUH) prohibited the muslims to abuse the falsified gods of others for the reason that it can revert with same reaction. (Mafhoom of a Hadees).
I am of the firm view that none of the faith (if it is really a faith and not something to take an advantageous position) should be termed as a product of illiteracy. I hope people can understand what I wanted to say.
Faith is a revelation one thread of which is unexplored and unknown in all cases.
May Allah bless the mankind with perfect faith and make us to follow what he desires. (Again a prayer as per my understanding and faith!!!).
Regards,
KAMRAN.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Kamran Saahab,
From illiteracy i didnt mean either third world countries....or people with no degrees...not how usually illiteracy or literacy is used. From illiteracy i meant illiterate when it comes to our Religion and i am talking about Islam specifically.
You quoted a correct Hadeeth but perhaps you should try n recall some other Ahadeeth where they mention how things like these lead to Shirk...I am not going to quote anything as i dont remember exactly what it was.
Our religion, the basics are in fact quite simple.
Hum Allah SWT kay ilawa kisee ko SAJDA naheen kartay, we SHOULDNT, if someone reads up a bit about our religion they will be pretty clear on this.
I do understand what your saying, people following what they ve been taught in family, surroundings e.t.c but i dont know what kinda muslim can one be if the foundation, the basis, the beginning and the essence of our religion is oneness of ALLAH SWT , thats where it all starts from. If you havent got that right........well )
I know people who say main nay us baba kay mazaar per dua kee and so far all my wishes ve come true....
In last Friday khutba, Maulana saahab mentioned jis taraf apna belief maail karo gay, waheen pukhta hota chala jayega. Its simple, doesnt wishes of Kuffars come true ? they do, maybe even more than us ( if we only consider the worldl effect ) but that doesnt make whast they believe right, right?
Anyways, i am going on and on and i better stop. Hope u guys get the idea of what i am saying.
Take care n have a good night now everyone!
<br />
ACCAite
The most advanced nations of the world do a lot of things which if for a moment analyzed will be concluded as the most illiterate. You have roamed around and I guess there is no need to provide detailed examples of the non-sense that the advanced world does not even term as non-sense or illiteracy. I have witnessed number of instances where the super power nations had acted blind folded.
I guess beliefs must not be connected with illiteracy thing; since it has nothing to do with backwardness or illiteracy etc. The most criticized religions and faiths of the world (in the eyes of people at our region) are, and have been, followed by the most learned and educated people around.
Faith; as it speaks is something which we believe based upon our own parameters, understanding, observation etc and remain unaffected regardless of whatever proofs contrary to the faith we follow are shown to us. The thing that can change for arguments and remains alterable is not a Faith in pure terms. To agree on a well proven and scientifically known thing may not crudely be termed as faith as well.
Faith is always influenced by the ancestors, people who surround us, generalized practices, states of mind and lot more by traditions of a specific area. Thatâs why you will see various sets of practices under same FAITH and same Religion at different locations of the world.
Rarely the people challenge their inherited faith, social traditions and set of generalized practices of the people surrounding them, and try to apply mind and find out something new and logical (again as per their own understanding). And yes, they have to pay its cost for deviating from their ancestral roadmap. History is full of such stories.
I am not discussing any specific religion; rather am trying to write something on the philosophy of human feelings, beliefs and faith, regardless of whatever it is.
As much we can crack jokes on people having lots of gods, as can they revert doing same with our belief in one God. As much we can laugh on people bowing heads in Dargahs, as can they do it for the others. At this moment, I recalled the golden saying of Prophet Peace Be upon Him where he (PBUH) prohibited the muslims to abuse the falsified gods of others for the reason that it can revert with same reaction. (Mafhoom of a Hadees).
I am of the firm view that none of the faith (if it is really a faith and not something to take an advantageous position) should be termed as a product of illiteracy. I hope people can understand what I wanted to say.
Faith is a revelation one thread of which is unexplored and unknown in all cases.
May Allah bless the mankind with perfect faith and make us to follow what he desires. (Again a prayer as per my understanding and faith!!!).
Regards,
KAMRAN.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Kamran Saahab,
From illiteracy i didnt mean either third world countries....or people with no degrees...not how usually illiteracy or literacy is used. From illiteracy i meant illiterate when it comes to our Religion and i am talking about Islam specifically.
You quoted a correct Hadeeth but perhaps you should try n recall some other Ahadeeth where they mention how things like these lead to Shirk...I am not going to quote anything as i dont remember exactly what it was.
Our religion, the basics are in fact quite simple.
Hum Allah SWT kay ilawa kisee ko SAJDA naheen kartay, we SHOULDNT, if someone reads up a bit about our religion they will be pretty clear on this.
I do understand what your saying, people following what they ve been taught in family, surroundings e.t.c but i dont know what kinda muslim can one be if the foundation, the basis, the beginning and the essence of our religion is oneness of ALLAH SWT , thats where it all starts from. If you havent got that right........well )
I know people who say main nay us baba kay mazaar per dua kee and so far all my wishes ve come true....
In last Friday khutba, Maulana saahab mentioned jis taraf apna belief maail karo gay, waheen pukhta hota chala jayega. Its simple, doesnt wishes of Kuffars come true ? they do, maybe even more than us ( if we only consider the worldl effect ) but that doesnt make whast they believe right, right?
Anyways, i am going on and on and i better stop. Hope u guys get the idea of what i am saying.
Take care n have a good night now everyone!
04-14-2010, 05:34 PM
ACCAite
I no where said that the definition of Shirak provided by you, as per Islam, is incorrect.
I told you how the faith (and not the religion) gets diluted, affected and modified and I also tried to explain that since one edge of the thread of faith is un-explored/unknown, we should not call any one's faith a product of illiteracy, although in some cases it might even be a factual case of illetracy.
The Hadees which I quoted as a "golden saying" is something that asks us to follow the best practice of LIFE, that's why I quoted it. I did not quote any specific Hadees or religious reference about any belief or faith, because my above post was not specifically a reflection of any faith. It was generalized in its nature.
I know what you meant by illetracy, and I replied in the same sense and meaning. The thing that is illiteracy for you or under the parameters of Islam believed by you (I am not commening upon what is precised and what is not) may not be the illiteracy for some one else. ..............Similarly what you have not experienced or don't know, may be illiteracy for you, but certainly not for the one who has experienced it and has some how known it.
The example of first portion of my last paragraph is the variant religions and beliefs being followed by various humans, believing (by every one) that his faith is correct and all others are wrong.
The example of the second portion of that paragraph is a real life incident; I remember the days when some faithful people in villages of Punjab used to opine that whoever believes that human being has visited the Moon will lose the vailidity of his Nikah. Certainly the people who then believed in human's visit to moon were "ILLETRATE" as per those rural faithfuls and those rural faithfuls were "ILLETRATE" for others.
This is what I tried to explain. I guess you will understand what I mean.
I again clarify that I am only discussing the philosphy of FAITH and am by no means discussing any religion.
.............................................
As per Islam, I do believe that a Muslim is not allowed to bow his head in front or seek anything from any one except ALLAH. Anything that is contrary to this rule can come under the definition of Shirak, so care is necessary.
Allah knows the best.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
I no where said that the definition of Shirak provided by you, as per Islam, is incorrect.
I told you how the faith (and not the religion) gets diluted, affected and modified and I also tried to explain that since one edge of the thread of faith is un-explored/unknown, we should not call any one's faith a product of illiteracy, although in some cases it might even be a factual case of illetracy.
The Hadees which I quoted as a "golden saying" is something that asks us to follow the best practice of LIFE, that's why I quoted it. I did not quote any specific Hadees or religious reference about any belief or faith, because my above post was not specifically a reflection of any faith. It was generalized in its nature.
I know what you meant by illetracy, and I replied in the same sense and meaning. The thing that is illiteracy for you or under the parameters of Islam believed by you (I am not commening upon what is precised and what is not) may not be the illiteracy for some one else. ..............Similarly what you have not experienced or don't know, may be illiteracy for you, but certainly not for the one who has experienced it and has some how known it.
The example of first portion of my last paragraph is the variant religions and beliefs being followed by various humans, believing (by every one) that his faith is correct and all others are wrong.
The example of the second portion of that paragraph is a real life incident; I remember the days when some faithful people in villages of Punjab used to opine that whoever believes that human being has visited the Moon will lose the vailidity of his Nikah. Certainly the people who then believed in human's visit to moon were "ILLETRATE" as per those rural faithfuls and those rural faithfuls were "ILLETRATE" for others.
This is what I tried to explain. I guess you will understand what I mean.
I again clarify that I am only discussing the philosphy of FAITH and am by no means discussing any religion.
.............................................
As per Islam, I do believe that a Muslim is not allowed to bow his head in front or seek anything from any one except ALLAH. Anything that is contrary to this rule can come under the definition of Shirak, so care is necessary.
Allah knows the best.
Regards,
KAMRAN.