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+--- Thread: Bank job (/showthread.php?tid=1585)
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Bank job - bilal azhar - 01-16-2005
can somebody tell me whether bank job is Halal or Haram. if it is Haram, why?
bilal
- sohana - 01-16-2005
acc to mulvis its haram bez the source of income i n banks is sooooood
n soood is haram
i have heard that
i never heard that its halal......not know more than that
halal ki kidco candy
Edited by - sohana on Jan 16 2005 023552 AM
- Desert Sleet - 01-16-2005
This is a real Debatable issue but as many discussion regarding this topic has already been carried out so i will like all of u to refer to the Following Links for Detailed And Comprehensive Reading of this Subject.
http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=&whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=639
And
http//www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1387
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If I could... Then I would... Turn back time!!
- mobin - 01-16-2005
Unless and until the bank is an islamic one the income will be halal but incase of anyother bank the income will always be haram tgis is not a debateable issue
Apply ur logics ppl as the banks main source of income is haram i.e interest so therefore bank jobs are haram !!
The difference between dreams and accomplishment is purly desire
- maani - 01-16-2005
Hi,
How a bank can be an Islamic Bank...because the major source of income for banks is "profit on debts"...and I think there is no bank which donot have this element...
Ace
- sohana - 01-16-2005
oo BUT YAR U CA PEOPLE WHT U WOULD DO NOW
HAA
YA TO HARAM HA BANK MA KAM KARNA THAN WHAT WILL A CA DO EXCEPT BANKING
HM
- maani - 01-16-2005
Hi,
CAs have a lot of other institutions to do their jobs...From 1961 to now...only 68 chartered accountants of Pakistan are working in Banks...remaining (about 3100)are in other industries...
Ace
- sohana - 01-17-2005
o ok i c
- bilal azhar - 01-17-2005
Can some body tell me what is islamic banking.is there any pure islamic bank in pakistan?
Why the govt dont abolish this interest based banking.National savings accounts and fixed deposit accounts should be abolished quickly.
Interest is a big big sin.accoding TO Holy Prophet(PBUH) the person who earns and eat interest commits a crime which has seventy(70) stages and the lowest stage of it is equal to doing "Zina" with ur mother.
bilal
- AvgJoe - 01-18-2005
This is an accountancy forum. Hence, I dont think many people here are capable of passing a "fatwa" regarding this issue.
Personally, I think that the arguments offered by people who say tht bank jobs are haram are completely baseless. Can they offer any authentic hadees, or Quranic verse, which specifically states that working under a person earning from interest (sood) is haram ? If there is an authentic hadees or Quranic verse, which specifically states or implies so, then indeed it would be haram.
In Islam there are basically 4 sources of Islamic law
1) Quran
2) Sunnat & Hadees
3) Ijma
4) Qiyas
Ijma means the consenses of the Islamic community. This means that if the entire Islamic world agrees upon a certain issue than that is indeed an Islamic Law. This is not possible by holding a conference. It happens by itself over time. This is definitely not the case with this problem of Bank Jobs. Since, not all Islamic scholars of the entire world unanimously agree upon this issue.
Qiyas is logical reasoning. For example, if Quran specifically bans drinking of wine, than by reasoning it can be argued that all those substances, which cause similar effects as wine like alchohal, beer etc are also banned in Islam. (This is just an example)
From my information, some people pass this fatwa that bank jobs are haram based on "their own" Qiyas. This cannot be an Islamic Law, as except the Qiyas of the companions of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) no other Qiyas is FIXED in nature. The qiyas of one nation (in 6th century) can be altered by the Qiyas of another nation (in 20th century). Hence, this question is still open to debate & would never be decided.
You should go to a proper Islamic Scholar & ask him to give u proper hadees & Quranic verses, which indicate that bank jobs are haram. As every person who is doing QIYAs, is required to present his logical reasoning behind it BASED ON ORIGINAL HADEES & QURAN. Qiyas can only be based on QURAN & HADEES. Islam doesnt encourage BLIND following of scholars, it only demands BLIND following of certain principles like there is only ONE GOD (coz no one can offer logical reasoning for this, u just gotta believe it).
If the Scholar is unable to give u any authentic Hadees or Quranic verse, then this cannot be an Islamic "law". And hence, it would be crude to say that working in banks is haram.
PS These are my personal views. I would urge members to present us with some authentic Quranic verses or Ahadees specifically related to this issue (not to banning interest, we all know that) Does someone know about a hadees or Quranic verse which says (or specifically implies) that it is unlawful to work as a servant under a person who earns through interest?
- AvgJoe - 01-18-2005
This is an accountancy forum. Hence, I dont think many people here are capable of passing a "fatwa" regarding this issue.
Personally, I think that the arguments offered by people who say tht bank jobs are haram are completely baseless. Can they offer any authentic hadees, or Quranic verse, which specifically states that working under a person earning from interest (sood) is haram ? If there is an authentic hadees or Quranic verse, which specifically states or implies so, then indeed it would be haram.
In Islam there are basically 4 sources of Islamic law
1) Quran
2) Sunnat & Hadees
3) Ijma
4) Qiyas
Ijma means the consenses of the Islamic community. This means that if the entire Islamic world agrees upon a certain issue than that is indeed an Islamic Law. This is not possible by holding a conference. It happens by itself over time. This is definitely not the case with this problem of Bank Jobs. Since, not all Islamic scholars of the entire world unanimously agree upon this issue.
Qiyas is logical reasoning. For example, if Quran specifically bans drinking of wine, than by reasoning it can be argued that all those substances, which cause similar effects as wine like alchohal, beer etc are also banned in Islam. (This is just an example)
From my information, some people pass this fatwa that bank jobs are haram based on "their own" Qiyas. This cannot be an Islamic Law, as except the Qiyas of the companions of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) no other Qiyas is FIXED in nature. The qiyas of one nation (in 6th century) can be altered by the Qiyas of another nation (in 20th century). Hence, this question is still open to debate & would never be decided.
You should go to a proper Islamic Scholar & ask him to give u proper hadees & Quranic verses, which indicate that bank jobs are haram. As every person who is doing QIYAs, is required to present his logical reasoning behind it BASED ON ORIGINAL HADEES & QURAN. Qiyas can only be based on QURAN & HADEES. Islam doesnt encourage BLIND following of scholars, it only demands BLIND following of certain principles like there is only ONE GOD (coz no one can offer logical reasoning for this, u just gotta believe it).
If the Scholar is unable to give u any authentic Hadees or Quranic verse, then this cannot be an Islamic "law". And hence, it would be crude to say that working in banks is haram.
PS These are my personal views. I would urge members to present us with some authentic Quranic verses or Ahadees specifically related to this issue (not to banning interest, we all know that) Does someone know about a hadees or Quranic verse which says (or specifically implies) that it is unlawful to work as a servant under a person who earns through interest?
- bilal azhar - 01-18-2005
IF there is nothing about a matter in Hadith and Quran,then it doen not means that it is halal or haram.eg Quran says that we should say prayers but there is nothing in Quran about the timings and method of salat.
Similiraly,there is no hadith and Quranic verse about bank job but there is common consensus among all the Alma"s of pakistan that bank job is haram in pakistan.A job in any bank situated in pakistan is Haram.There are some banks in india where it is not Haram.
bilal
- farazthegreat - 01-18-2005
Even the consensus has to be supported by ahadith or Quranic verses. There has to be an Islamic reason as to why the consensus is what it is. If interest is the only reason working in a bank is haram then here is a question.
How many businesses are there that don't deal in interest in one form or another? If working in a bank is haram because of interest, shouldn't it be haram to work in any organisation that deals in interest?
Of course I'm not knowledgable enough to disagree with the moulanas, but it's just that this question has been bubbling in my head for some time.
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A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
- AvgJoe - 01-19-2005
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IF there is nothing about a matter in Hadith and Quran,then it doen not means that it is halal or haram.eg Quran says that we should say prayers but there is nothing in Quran about the timings and method of salat.
Similiraly,there is no hadith and Quranic verse about bank job but there is common consensus among all the Alma"s of pakistan that bank job is haram in pakistan.A job in any bank situated in pakistan is Haram.There are some banks in india where it is not Haram.
bilal
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Dear Brother,
Do we have any hadith or sunnah in which the holy Prophet (PBUH) himself condemned a person who worked UNDER a person earning from interest? I mean, surely during His (PBUH) own lifetime, He would have seen servants working under the people (For e.g. jews who were earning from interest). But did he ever stop such servants from working ? Or said something which implied that one should leave work under them as soon as possible?
Did the Quran, in any way ban an individual from working under a person or organization earning through interest? If not, then u cannot just passout a DEFINITE ISLAMIC LAW saying that working under a bank is just HARAM. What logical basis do u have for that?
I have already pointed out, that to have IJMA (or consensus of the Islamic community), it is essential that no one disagrees over such an issue. But here in the case of Bank Jobs, I havent came under a single concrete fatwa in which all the Islamic scholars of the world have declared that working under banks is HARAM. Some say that u should leave it, other say its HALAL, while others declare it to be HARAM. So clearly, there isnt a CONSENSUS.
What we do have a consensus on, is that Interest or Riba is HARAM in Islam, when the person who is charging interest is charging enormous amounts.
Do we have any logical reasoning (QIYAS) for this fatwa of urs? If there is so, I would surely like to read it.
- bilal azhar - 01-19-2005
If u have a business of smuggling,beer etc then it means that u are earning haram money. although u are not drinking beer or u are not a drug addict but ur source of income is haram.if u give salary to all those people working under ur,then their salary will also be haram.
similiar is the case with bank.the main source of bank income is interest which is a big big sin and u as an employee of the bank help them to keep their business running.so u are also involved in haram thing.
Also there is general consensus among all the almas of pakistan that structure of all the banks in pakistan is based on haram money.
The reason why all the Almas around the world dont agree on single point regarding bank job is that the structure of the banks around the world is different.eg there are some banks in India in which all the earnings on ur deposits are halal.
bilal