Proud to be a Pakistani - Printable Version

Proud to be a Pakistani - Printable Version

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- cpa_guy - 06-07-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lion_king
 pakistan the only nuclear islamic country on the face of the world is such in a bad condition that it has to follow the footsteps of IMF and the world bank.....we civillians r not allowed to speak against our army or u will become a traitor..see the case of javed hashmi............an army officer cant be punished even if he has raped a women...........see the case an army officer in sui raped a lady doctor what happenend to him nothing neither an FIR been written against him.............even its worst when we consider the case that american soldiers drained the HOLY QURAN what we did is amazing.....our president and prime minister phoned mr.BUSH AND SAID PLEASE SIR ITS OUR RELIGIOUS BOOK UPLEASE TAKE SOME ACTION AGAINST THIS CASE...........what a brave move made by our leaders.......when thier one man DANIEL PEARL was killed the whole of ISI and the political leaders were involved in that case but when it comes to the HOLY QURAN then we consider only a phone call so that UNCLE SAM MAY NOT GET ANGRY WITH US.........EVEN IF ALLAH DOES.....
our political parties r only involved in the WARDI UTAROO.....not a single thing been done for the welfare of the poor.......people r killed daily on the issue of sectarian violence.......laws and human rights r only for the elite class in this country poor r exempt from it........billions of dollars have gone in the pockets of the corrupt politicians while NAB is to arrest them then make a deal with the governmentand then release them.....so honourably that they even sit in our national and provincial assemblies......wow its kool na.............negligible amount is spent on health and education that plays so important role in the development of a country..........................................
if we have made the nuclear weapons and missiles what use r they for usif even we now have to take the orders from america.........when will we become a developed nation........when will the dreams of our QUAID be fulfilled........when will we be free to expess ourselves......when will we have the right to raise our voice for the truth............when will our politicians become honest..........when will.......we be proud of our nation....when...when....when....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
well our nuclear status has nothing to do with our dependence on IMF/WB. Our nuclear capability is at best only for defense and not for an agressive posture. Think about this, would we be able to carry out a nuclear war with India? we might wipe of a chunk of India but due to our small size, we won't be able to take a strike. Complete destruction, and again nuclear weapons don't feed people. I personally rather not buy a $2billion dollar F16 and instead use it for some economic initiavtes.

I think you have made some good oints regarding all the corruption and lack of development. The blame for all this ill soley lies on our shoulders and not any foreign country. Only we are stupid enough to time after time vote for these corrupt leaders. And btw it's just not the top leadership that's corrupt, corruption is ripe in pretty much all aspects of life.

- Pracs - 06-08-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ehson

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Which country of the 50 plus muslim countries would you say is
relatively more of an Islamic Government ? Please bear in mind that the society is usually a good reflection of how an Islamic state and its benefits have seeped into fabric of society.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If you ask my personal viewpoint. There is not single country in this world that can actually claim to be an Islamic state. You see being an Islamic state just becuase the majority of the population is Muslims is not a criteria to judge. We must judge these claims with the Quran and Sunnah. And have you seen a single country which is in allignment to that.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 And do you think that implementing the Caliphate would be a step by step thing. What ehson says would take more time, more time than one would have imagined.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It is all the mater of conviction. When everyone is convinced, revolution would be triggered (as it has been happenin from the begining of the man kind) which would then reap the result. Now the porblem for the time being is that we are not convinced. And if we are, we think since it is difficult to achieve we plan not to do anything for it. So let us work in our individual capacity and pray to Allah(swt) for it.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 I for one believe that the ''Islamic Ummah'' concept is dead, I think the only actual Caliphate was during the time of the ''Khulfahae- Rashedeen'', thereon for the next thousand years were as golden only because of the initial system in place (which began to wither ofcourse). The Ottoman Caliphate (read sultanate) was a sorry sort of affairs, I can name a dozen Muslim countries today that are better Islamic Governments than the Mehmuds in Istanbul. Nor do I have any respect for the Monarchs of the Gulf and West Africa, or the socialist dictators, or military dictators, or for that matter most self actualising leaders in the Muslim world.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You see as mentioned earlier if an individual didnt rule in the pure islamic way and claimed to be a Muslim that is not a fault of Islam. And I agree that the 'ummah' concept is almost dead. But brought it to this stage? and who can bring it back to life?

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 The challenge for Muslims is to adhere to the fixed principles of Islam regardless of time or situations.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And if you do that people would call you "fundamentalist" as if it is s'thing wrong/ill legar or pesimistic approach to the modren world.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Democracy is often confused with the style of elections....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">True that is

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think we agree on quite a many issues here ehson. But all this is more on the theoratical side, say a good catch for an academic discussion. We have all asked questions if it's ever going to be possible.

I think the only possibility is a to fashion the OIC on the lines of the EU, that is the best chance we may ever have to have an Islamic state.

Coming to Pakistan, I think the Objectives Resolution ensures that any constitution drawn in its light (including the present one) will be in light with the Islamic spirit. What we need is democracy in its right manifestation (with this I do not mean the General's govt.) free of the stake holder groups and then strong hold, which are the Army, the bureaucracy and the landlords. An effective Judicial system paired with an effective executive. Having done that, I think we can start to begin the Journey towards an Islamic state. The Utopia,. at this point of time.

There is no practicality to go about electing a Khalifa, unless we have a bloody revolution like the Iranians and an institutionalised clergy (like the Shias have). This is somethng just not possible for us, because of a large number of Muslim sects within the Sunnis and the Shias to just start with. No to mention all the different ethinicities.

Yeah, and a little history lesson, the Indus land (or the present day Pakistan) has never had a revolution, revolt or an uprising against who so ever was incharge, ever. So don't even think about that option. Its just not in us.!

- ehson - 06-08-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by zaree1
 hi
i am a new visitor to the site
i am pleased to be part of a good forum

zee khan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Too early to judge if it is good or not )

- ehson - 06-08-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cpa_guy
 I personally rather not buy a $2billion dollar F16 and instead use it for some economic initiavtes.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
good viewpoint. I totally support this type of thinking.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cpa_guy
 I think you have made some good oints regarding all the corruption and lack of development. The blame for all this ill soley lies on our shoulders and not any foreign country. Only we are stupid enough to time after time vote for these corrupt leaders. And btw it's just not the top leadership that's corrupt, corruption is ripe in pretty much all aspects of life.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
) another good point

- ehson - 06-08-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 I think we agree on quite a many issues here ehson. But all this is more on the theoratical side, say a good catch for an academic discussion. We have all asked questions if it's ever going to be possible.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'd not say it 'all' on the theoretical side. You see we can atleast try to educate people.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 I think the only possibility is a to fashion the OIC on the lines of the EU, that is the best chance we may ever have to have an Islamic state.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">True, but this would only work if the leader representing the countries have an islamic mind frame. s'one who does curroption would never agree to this ideology. i seriously do think many of the OIC reps currently would appriciate this idea.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Coming to Pakistan, I think the Objectives Resolution ensures that any constitution drawn in its light (including the present one) will be in light with the Islamic spirit. What we need is democracy in its right manifestation (with this I do not mean the General's govt.) free of the stake holder groups and then strong hold, which are the Army, the bureaucracy and the landlords. An effective Judicial system paired with an effective executive. Having done that, I think we can start to begin the Journey towards an Islamic state. The Utopia,. at this point of time.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> As I see the case you are advocating and the one I'm supporting both seem like a utopia. Why then work for democracy and not for Caliphate.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 There is no practicality to go about electing a Khalifa, unless we have a bloody revolution like the Iranians and an institutionalised clergy (like the Shias have). This is somethng just not possible for us, because of a large number of Muslim sects within the Sunnis and the Shias to just start with. No to mention all the different ethinicities.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Bloody revolution would eventually be there regardless of to what you want to revolutionize your country, my friend.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 Yeah, and a little history lesson, the Indus land (or the present day Pakistan) has never had a revolution, revolt or an uprising against who so ever was incharge, ever. So don't even think about that option. Its just not in us.!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well dont worry about that, we might import some of the individuals for such revolution. I mean they say it would be a single market in the globalization, why not then bring to indus land what we never had earlier. )

- Pracs - 06-09-2005

I hope it happens in our life time, but I wouldn't bet on it

- ehson - 06-10-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 I hope it happens in our life time, but I wouldn't bet on it
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Miricles apart, but keepin in mind the envirnoment i really doubt that it would happen in my lifetime (say i live for next 40-50 years). However, hopes keeps me going. )

- Hashim - 06-11-2005

What a great discussion is taking place under this topic carry on boys but kindly keep ur sentences short...

Â«â¢Â´`â¢.(*â¢.Â¸(`â¢.Â¸ Â¸.â¢Â´)Â¸.â¢*).â¢Â´`â¢Â»
Â«................. HASHI .................Â»
Â«â¢Â´`â¢.(Â¸.â¢*(Â¸.â¢Â´ `â¢.Â¸)*â¢.Â¸).â¢Â´`â¢Â»

- ehson - 06-11-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Hashim
 What a great discussion is taking place under this topic carry on boys but kindly keep ur sentences short...

Â«â¢Â´`â¢.(*â¢.Â¸(`â¢.Â¸ Â¸.â¢Â´)Â¸.â¢*).â¢Â´`â¢Â»
Â«................. HASHI .................Â»
Â«â¢Â´`â¢.(Â¸.â¢*(Â¸.â¢Â´ `â¢.Â¸)*â¢.Â¸).â¢Â´`â¢Â»

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think we have hit the conclusion, so what shall we 'carry on'?

- CBPian - 06-12-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Mukhtaran on ECL

LAHORE, June 10 The interior ministry has placed Mukhtaran Maiâs name on the Exit Control List (ECL).

Sources in the ministry told Dawn on Friday that Mukhtaran Mai had been scheduled to leave for London in a day or two on an invitation from the Amnesty International.

âHer name has been placed on the ECL with a directive to the Federal Investigation Agency to ensure compliance,â an officer of the FIA said.

The official said the government had taken the decision on reports that her visit could âtarnishâ the image of the country abroad.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well from your wishes and utopias let go back to reality... , we can see what kind of image we are portraying to the world ..every second.... now that we are in the limelight thanks to our great leadership....
i cant understand how letting her not go wont ruin country's image (already tarnished with this story and numerous others which are now more frequent than ever.... its not like painting something black again and again...a point in one's life is very bad when your affordability to own your country becomes a question of ethics and values... im nearing there [D].) now that the court has ordered the release of the jirga and culprits..... this is the islamic republic we portray to the world.
.. i am waitin for the whipping cowboy to let his sentiments known and then this ECL will be history [D] [D][D]

- naam_thegreat - 06-13-2005

if ur so ashamed to be a pakistani than why dont u just F*** off and change ur citizenship and clean toilets of gora???????????????

- ehson - 06-13-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CBPian
 Well from your wishes and utopias let go back to reality... , we can see what kind of image we are portraying to the world ..every second.... now that we are in the limelight thanks to our great leadership....
i cant understand how letting her not go wont ruin country's image (already tarnished with this story and numerous others which are now more frequent than ever.... its not like painting something black again and again...a point in one's life is very bad when your affordability to own your country becomes a question of ethics and values... im nearing there [D].) now that the court has ordered the release of the jirga and culprits..... this is the islamic republic we portray to the world.
.. i am waitin for the whipping cowboy to let his sentiments known and then this ECL will be history [D] [D][D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Very informative contribution, thank you CBPian for that. I see the problem you are pointing to. I mean if we let the lady go they she would be under spotlight and media would certiainly beat the drums and let the world know how bad the situations in Pakistan is. Honestly speaking this could actually sabotage the current image of Pakistan and you'd see alot alot of people in the devleoped country would stop purchasing the Pakistani products (as it has happened with the child labor scenario).
On the other hand If you dont let her go, it becomes a two edged sowrd for Pakistan. One that the people are treated in the most inhuman way and two that victims of such treatmetn arent allowed to leave the country and alot of possibilities can be disscussed by the intellectuals as why they are not allowed to leave.
Now, what I see as a possiblity is that since the jirga people are being released there is a great chance that the poor lady would get assassinated. That again would bring Pakistan under spotlight.
I think at least for her to be safe she should be allowed to go. We have earned this image, why then our leaders are so affraid of it being projected?

- ehson - 06-13-2005

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by naam_thegreat
 if ur so ashamed to be a pakistani than why dont u just F*** off and change ur citizenship and clean toilets of gora???????????????
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanyou for your valuable contribution, we really appriciate your input. If you'd have gone throught the post you'd have realised that no one here is ashamed of being a Pakistani. We see problems which we have brought to the forum as people can have thier say and a few here have proposed a way out of this problem.
So can kindly not make replies by just going throug the thread topic?

- Sahar_M - 06-13-2005

yeah ,
conclusion

jo bhi kerna ha kero, per atleast start a new thread [D], a diff topic where new ideas can be shared.[})] 


Y is the WorLd so full of ..............FOOLs ?????? n y am I one of them ( .
[ Wink

]

- Pracs - 06-14-2005

I think the thread is all fine, but can the moderator please change the title to the thread, something on the lines of ''Issues in Pakistan'' etc.