MYASCO in Lahore - Printable Version

MYASCO in Lahore - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: MYASCO in Lahore (/showthread.php?tid=3288)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6

- Pracs - 05-28-2006

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ali Akbar
 <blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs

Guys guys there is no need for you all to get this emotional at all, just to let you all know I am AFF trained myself , infact I have now worked for / working for all of the Big5 except KPMG... meaning PwC, EY, Coopers & Lybrand, Deloitte....

So I have no bias,..to start with I know AFF has been at the top in Pakistan for as long as there have been accounting firms in Pakistan ! But realities are changing,. Ford Rhodes got in the Anderson legacy (Sidat Hyder) firm in with them which must have got them on to the no.2 position for sure...about KPMG many KPMG people do make claims in terms of clientle and all. Since there are'nt any publicly avaliable figres for any of the firms it is just difficult to put a number on the revenues and all.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is no need to make elaborations, we don't need it at all. Request is made to all members that if they are not sure about any information then please don't put the vague answer on the public board. The world has been changed, every second person knows about the accurate information.

And again as far as KPMG is concerned, every one knows about its current position. The outdated information no more works!

ICAPians, the unparalleled..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ali,

If some thing I write down 'pinches you' or creates confusion for you please ignore that !! as you have said this is a public forum and as such every member's right to post.

You are just blabbering about THK/KPMG .. and I see no facts... no links,.. nothing!! You say its a fact and all know about it? I see you are the only person who believes in it. I have seen no one come up to second you.

Your lack of civility does not bother me I have had my share of 'chavs' (as we say in UK) on this forum and I very well know how long they last..

- Ali Akbar - 05-28-2006

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 <blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ali Akbar
 <blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs

Guys guys there is no need for you all to get this emotional at all, just to let you all know I am AFF trained myself , infact I have now worked for / working for all of the Big5 except KPMG... meaning PwC, EY, Coopers & Lybrand, Deloitte....

So I have no bias,..to start with I know AFF has been at the top in Pakistan for as long as there have been accounting firms in Pakistan ! But realities are changing,. Ford Rhodes got in the Anderson legacy (Sidat Hyder) firm in with them which must have got them on to the no.2 position for sure...about KPMG many KPMG people do make claims in terms of clientle and all. Since there are'nt any publicly avaliable figres for any of the firms it is just difficult to put a number on the revenues and all.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is no need to make elaborations, we don't need it at all. Request is made to all members that if they are not sure about any information then please don't put the vague answer on the public board. The world has been changed, every second person knows about the accurate information.

And again as far as KPMG is concerned, every one knows about its current position. The outdated information no more works!

ICAPians, the unparalleled..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ali,

If some thing I write down 'pinches you' or creates confusion for you please ignore that !! as you have said this is a public forum and as such every member's right to post.

You are just blabbering about THK/KPMG .. and I see no facts... no links,.. nothing!! You say its a fact and all know about it? I see you are the only person who believes in it. I have seen no one come up to second you.

Your lack of civility does not bother me I have had my share of 'chavs' (as we say in UK) on this forum and I very well know how long they last..

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Again the same reply as expected! Again the outdated information! Again the misleading information, ofcourse its a public forum atleast the information should not be vague! I am not here to convince atleast you, as I dont see any reason for it!

Again slaping juniors for speaking infront of seniors! Again denying the facts! Again THK instead of KTH!

I am not here to convince you by posting 4-5 replies daily as I am not fond of reaching to 1,000 posts. There are many other important things to do in life.

Best of luck, aur thoda ghussa kam kia karain, aur auroon ki b suna karian aur especially try to face the facts doesnt matter that they may not be in agreement with ur thoughts...but facts r facts kia karain! And plz dont consider who is saying, rather consider wt he/she is saying.

ICAPians, the unparalleled..

- Salmancert - 05-29-2006

Hey Chill folks,
the topic was to discuss the value of MYASCO in lahore. then why r u constantly arguing about value and position on KPMG? this is for information purpose right?

- Pracs - 05-29-2006

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ali Akbar
 <blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs
 <blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ali Akbar
 <blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs

Guys guys there is no need for you all to get this emotional at all, just to let you all know I am AFF trained myself , infact I have now worked for / working for all of the Big5 except KPMG... meaning PwC, EY, Coopers & Lybrand, Deloitte....

So I have no bias,..to start with I know AFF has been at the top in Pakistan for as long as there have been accounting firms in Pakistan ! But realities are changing,. Ford Rhodes got in the Anderson legacy (Sidat Hyder) firm in with them which must have got them on to the no.2 position for sure...about KPMG many KPMG people do make claims in terms of clientle and all. Since there are'nt any publicly avaliable figres for any of the firms it is just difficult to put a number on the revenues and all.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is no need to make elaborations, we don't need it at all. Request is made to all members that if they are not sure about any information then please don't put the vague answer on the public board. The world has been changed, every second person knows about the accurate information.

And again as far as KPMG is concerned, every one knows about its current position. The outdated information no more works!

ICAPians, the unparalleled..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ali,

If some thing I write down 'pinches you' or creates confusion for you please ignore that !! as you have said this is a public forum and as such every member's right to post.

You are just blabbering about THK/KPMG .. and I see no facts... no links,.. nothing!! You say its a fact and all know about it? I see you are the only person who believes in it. I have seen no one come up to second you.

Your lack of civility does not bother me I have had my share of 'chavs' (as we say in UK) on this forum and I very well know how long they last..

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Again the same reply as expected! Again the outdated information! Again the misleading information, ofcourse its a public forum atleast the information should not be vague! I am not here to convince atleast you, as I dont see any reason for it!

Again slaping juniors for speaking infront of seniors! Again denying the facts! Again THK instead of KTH!

I am not here to convince you by posting 4-5 replies daily as I am not fond of reaching to 1,000 posts. There are many other important things to do in life.

Best of luck, aur thoda ghussa kam kia karain, aur auroon ki b suna karian aur especially try to face the facts doesnt matter that they may not be in agreement with ur thoughts...but facts r facts kia karain! And plz dont consider who is saying, rather consider wt he/she is saying.

ICAPians, the unparalleled..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ali, I think you just need to read through this stretch of the post to see and realise who is being 'stubborn' in proving a point which has no basis what so ever, you may like to believe a set of facts, which is fine by me but you cannot expect me or for that matter any one else to believe what you believe just because you say so.

I'd say you are more into a complex or some thing with this THK OR KTHK.. doesnt make much a difference they are the one and the same firm,.

LET ME MAKE it simple for you, do not reply my post on daily basis.. who is asking you to.. infact I will be more than happy if you do not reply because I know what you are going to say.. this is not the first time you are lashing your 'bigot' at another poster. I have seen you do the same with 'Azeem aka ASK' on the ACCA/ACA thread.

Buddy go do some thing else,.. surely you do not want to waste your time here... why do you come to post here in the first place.

Am I the emotional one here ?? all I am asking is to bring some hard core facts.. that is all.

WHY IS THERE NO MEMBER HERE SECONDING YOUR Ranking....

- Abdur.Rehman - 05-29-2006

Well there is one and Mr. Pracs it seams as if after wandering around in 5 firms and getting nothing u have started a net cafe and u have nothing else to do than to oppose ali. Y do u do like that.
If u want to take a look at the facts, as u were asking for them
first have a look at the companies out of the top 30 of 29-05-06 on KSE that are audited by KPMG
1)OGDCL
2)PTCL
3)DGK Cement
4)FFBL
5)Union Bank
6)Fauji cement
7)sui northern
8)Pakistan Cement
9)Faysal bank
10)MCB
11)National Bank of Pakistan
12)Sui Southern
13)Pakistan PTA
14)PICIC Commercial Bank
15)PICIC GrowthXD
And there are many other well reputed companies i.e. FFC, Shell, siemens, Engro chemicals and almost all the oil and gas sector of Islamabad which are not in the top 30 KSE for the day audited by KPMG.
And also have a look at Islamabad stock exchage. There are three top stocks of which two i.e OGDCL and PTCL are with KPMG and the third one is with FRSH.

u can visit the website of KSE and ISE for reference.
and stop thrashing the facts which doesnt match with ur ideas.
and get up from ur fast sleep. Open the door and look out its a day.
bye

- Ali Akbar - 05-29-2006

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs

Am I the emotional one here ?? all I am asking is to bring some hard core facts.. that is all.

WHY IS THERE NO MEMBER HERE SECONDING YOUR Ranking....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[)] Sir here is the person and here are the facts for which you were asking. And please do reply and comment on these facts. And plZ come this time with some logical facts and current information. I am not fond of convincing but since you initiated this discussion so I want you to conclude it in a professional way after all you are an Associate member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan. So plz don't let the ICAP down.

ICAPians, the unparalleled..

- hanifasif - 05-29-2006

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Abdur.Rehman
 Well there is one and Mr. Pracs it seams as if after wandering around in 5 firms and getting nothing u have started a net cafe and u have nothing else to do than to oppose ali. Y do u do like that.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Its quite disappointing to see how many ICAPIANS are behaving without any slightest regard for seniors.

Well, now the distinction between a student of ICAP, the august professional body, and a
âSadak Chaapâ is quite blurred. Sorry for the crude word but I strongly feel there is a sharp difference between the ICAP breed I studied with and the current lot. I , and all of my classmates as well, had enormous respect for our seniors and teachers and we dared not to disagree with them even on the smallest issues. We may have had difference of opinions but we never turned boorish.

I donât know but something has gone terribly wrong with ICAPIANS.

- Pracs - 05-30-2006

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ali Akbar
 <blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pracs

Am I the emotional one here ?? all I am asking is to bring some hard core facts.. that is all.

WHY IS THERE NO MEMBER HERE SECONDING YOUR Ranking....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[)] Sir here is the person and here are the facts for which you were asking. And please do reply and comment on these facts. And plZ come this time with some logical facts and current information. I am not fond of convincing but since you initiated this discussion so I want you to conclude it in a professional way after all you are an Associate member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan. So plz don't let the ICAP down.

ICAPians, the unparalleled..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Glad to see Ali, you finally have an ally.. though I am not sure his figures are as impressive as his 'crude liguistic and writing skills' (that is some thing I shall address seperately in a different post, since you say I am so fond of upscaling my posts !!)

I have just posted an ICAP link on the other thread as well,.. which I will make reference to Abdur Rehman in my next post. Goodbye Ali as I think you are in no mood to continue on (or have lost the logic to go to convince me, ahh you say you are not found of convincing people).. I know you are fond of just shouting on thr top of your lungs,, about it.

Cheers mate

- Pracs - 05-30-2006

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Abdur.Rehman
 Well there is one and Mr. Pracs it seams as if after wandering around in 5 firms and getting nothing u have started a net cafe and u have nothing else to do than to oppose ali. Y do u do like that.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Poor me, yeah been not only rejected by all the big4/5 except for KPMG..but some thing that had me spanned three countries as well. hope you will get me in,, since I am all out in a net cafe.. I wonder why is Mr. Ali all that up about coming back with replies so soon.. so whay you say do I stand a chance???

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
If u want to take a look at the facts, as u were asking for them
first have a look at the companies out of the top 30 of 29-05-06 on KSE that are audited by KPMG
1)OGDCL
2)PTCL
3)DGK Cement
4)FFBL
5)Union Bank
6)Fauji cement
7)sui northern
8)Pakistan Cement
9)Faysal bank
10)MCB
11)National Bank of Pakistan
12)Sui Southern
13)Pakistan PTA
14)PICIC Commercial Bank
15)PICIC GrowthXD
And there are many other well reputed companies i.e. FFC, Shell, siemens, Engro chemicals and almost all the oil and gas sector of Islamabad which are not in the top 30 KSE for the day audited by KPMG.
And also have a look at Islamabad stock exchage. There are three top stocks of which two i.e OGDCL and PTCL are with KPMG and the third one is with FRSH.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The very fist company that I have looked up on your list Sui Northern (SNGPL) as per their website (most recent quarterly reviews )is audited jointly by FRSH and Riaz Ahmed & Co. so I simply don't know what to say ? here is the link
http//www.sngpl.com.pk/download/March%202006.pdf

So can't say how many other companies are either joint audits or done by some other audit firm all together.

Next in line PTCL is this time.. half right jointly audited by AFF and KPMG-THK...
http//www.ptcl.com.pk/financials/halfyear2006/review.html

Lets look at another one National Bank of Pakistan, again a joint audit between FRSH and KPMG !!!
http//www.nbp.com.pk/AnnualReport2004/NBP_Accounts_04.pdf

I am scratching my head now...

Having said that, I will still give you the benefit of the doubt and perhaps your information is more upto date.. but I do believe that to be more objective we need a comparison with atleast FRSH and atleast the audit fee you could have top 30 companies in your pocket and still be paid less than your peers !

I think (which means its my humble opinion and there is nothing binding to any one who reads this) it would make more sense to compare firms by no. of partners and staff.. which is more readily available. I have got the number of partners, some one working in those firms can just get us the no. of staff... just a suggestion there don't label me an old retard for just saying this.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
u can visit the website of KSE and ISE for reference.
and stop thrashing the facts which doesnt match with ur ideas.
and get up from ur fast sleep. Open the door and look out its a day.
bye
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have no facts to thrash on, what facts are you talking about,, apart from this first piece which you have put up here.. but is still not conclusive since.. there is no comparison about the other Big2,. and there is quite a difference between audit fees and other revenues from one Top 30 company to another...

I am not fast asleep, I am all up and see,, replying your post. If you want some one on your side you need to give them enough facts and be quite professional about it.. I may differ with you on some facts but just because that is the case I am not to go ahead and bad mouth you. Because as I understand the differenc is in our opinion, which we may defend passionately but as Human beings, and memebers of civilised educated households we would still respect each others boundries as such.

So despite you couple's dismal record of 'unruly behaviour' and crude language and reference to my 'employment status' (which you know nothing about to start with), I am not going to say on any of your personal status with regards to your qualifications, accomplishments or lack there of.. (I know I have much leverage there)

So Gentlemen have a nice day !

- derivativetrader - 05-30-2006

Pracs,

Looks like a significant amount of your Bank Holiday Monday has been spent on net!!! [D][D][D]

We know the arguments that are debated here, so pls do something bit more constructive, i.e. enjoy ur day-off

DT

- capricorn_me - 05-30-2006

dear abdur rehman,
other then the firms mentioned by pracs,

MCB is also jointly audited by Riaz Ahmed and Co.

- Abdur.Rehman - 05-30-2006

Dear Mr. Pracs,
I have no doubts about ur qualification or position thereafter, it was just a taunt on ur so many posts. And it is binding on me being student of ICAP to respect all the members of ICAP. But on the other side, u must not disregard the facts that are given to you. and now everyone in Islamabad knows the position of KPMG. even though i have 8-9 of my class fellows in AFF. and i have very good relations with them. i myself had the option of KPMG and AFF and i opted for KPMG. although that was not based on clientage but on my ISTAKHARA. my friends in AFF usually say that u have taken all the clients from us. and that is a fact. But i think u being an old buddy still not relying on the facts given by juniors.

and i know that SNGPL was audited by someone else in 2005, but we are doing its audit this year. and i have also heard that this year PTCL will be wholly done by us this year. anyways june is coming i will get u the updated information on that. and yes national bank is still a joint audit.
But i dont think that u will find anyone else being a joint audit or not done by us in 2005 except MCB to be done this year solely by KPMG. I think that u dont read the newspaper. its a good habbit...(@ capricorn me)
And i respect ur idea of giving ranking on the basis of number of employees or revenue, but i think that this thread was started by a student for getting articleship and not the partnership. It is hard for me to make any relevence of professinal growth and development of students with revenue and number of staff members. Less clients=less work=less exposure=less professional development.
u r saying more revenue=more exposure= more professinal development. HOW come this equation is worked out?

But i am again telling u a fact that the number of employees of KPMG is more than that of AFF and FRSH at least in Islamabad. The number may be a bit less than AFF in whole Pakistan, but it is our working style. We provide cost effective services with skilled people but less in number.

Anyways, i must thank u as u have given so much time to juniors talk. I may not again give a post convincing u on this topic as the great Iqbal said
"phool ki patti say kat sakta hai heray ka jigar"
"mard-e-nadan par kalam-e-narm-o-nazuk b-e-asar"

- Pracs - 05-30-2006

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by derivativetrader
 Pracs,

Looks like a significant amount of your Bank Holiday Monday has been spent on net!!! [D][D][D]

We know the arguments that are debated here, so pls do something bit more constructive, i.e. enjoy ur day-off

DT
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

DT,..

Just felt like just dozing off in front of the tele and do something 'constructive' infront of the telly... you must realise we are in the 'uncle type' category now.. so just going to the gym and then lying around all day make sense some time...!!

Hey how is ASK,, not heard from him for quite some time..

- Pracs - 05-30-2006

To Abdur Rehman.,

I guess you have ended the debate by clarifying that your ranking is based on 'Islamabad'..so you agree with me that we do not have complete figures to make an informed decision. For the purpose of 'articles' I usually think it makes not much of a difference in Pakistan on the Big3. Unless you want 'exposure' on a certain kind of clientle...

Well, providing 'cost effective' services is another debate so I wouldn't go into that. Like some one I spoke to yesterday, believed FRSH is at no.1 (Post Sidat merger) ! so there are as many opinions as there are firms.

I would be more than happy to see what the final position is in on an all Pakistan basis, but I guess the only way to do that is through Revenue (which is not public information to start with), the only other I find to base my assumption is Partners/staff.. (which is not acceptale to you and others). However, based on my understanding and comparing Partner/staff ratio in the UK with Revenue is quite compelling. But ofcourse you cannot draw a line on that.

I try to read Pakistani press when ever I can, will try to keep abreast more often now.!!!

- capricorn_me - 05-31-2006

Dear Abdur rehman

what can i say now......

my friend just look out annual reprot of MCB for last period u get your answer.
i know it with 100% surety , bcoz my cousin himself done the audit in lahore and wazir-a-bad