Accountancy Forum
Drawbacks/Advantages of Articles from Small Firm? - Printable Version

+- Accountancy Forum (https://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum)
+-- Forum: The Profession (https://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Firms (https://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Drawbacks/Advantages of Articles from Small Firm? (/showthread.php?tid=4520)

Pages: 1 2 3

- Schuaeb - 07-13-2007

You must seek opinion of some students who are partly qualified say CA foundation working in a small firm (not growing firm). As their qualification is pretty good than the big majority, they feel pretty relaxed. Now if you are in a comparatively larger firm obviously there would be more CA Inters and finalists. Now when the majority is having better qualification than yours, it will urge to strive harder for better qualification.

Yaar I have seen quite a number of such examples in real life. So I dont think that its the just the matter of my perception.

Not withstanding with the above, its beyond any doubt that in smaller firms students find much more time to study. And if they can keep themselves motivated they have a good chance to qualify. However, due to their professional environment bigger firms may provide students better motivation which may guide them toward their qualification.

To tell bout myself, I have undergone more than half of my training in not a very big firm.

- Imran - 07-20-2007

This is a very good rule to qualify. Login to fergusons.com and you will become a Chartered Accountant.

- Schuaeb - 07-29-2007

Now what was that about!!!

- Imran - 08-20-2007

what about

- Ahson Tariq - 09-09-2007

ACCA | Practical Experience in a SME Practice
Article from ACCA website

Many ACCA students and members work for – or manage – small or medium-sized practices. These practices often offer the chance to develop an exciting accountancy career straight from school, as well as from university. And with support for study and practical experience requirements, these practices will want you to pass your exams and get qualified as soon as possible.

Claire Young joined South coast-based Carpenter Box in Worthing, UK, after completing her A-levels. ‘I always wanted to be an accountant,’ says Young, who completed her finals in June 2007. ‘I looked for local firms that provided training, and saw the advert for Carpenter Box. I realised that the firm offered a brilliant study package so I applied, and haven’t looked back.’

Peter Lovett, who joined 80-strong Carpenter Box in January 2007 as a trainee accountant, had always wanted to work in practice and after a series of temporary roles started looking for something more permanent. ‘I had heard that Carpenter Box was one of the best practices in the area, with a young and dynamic image,’ says Lovett. ‘At the interview they clearly took an interest in developing their students, and also seemed like a firm that could really help me to develop my skills, learn more about accountancy, and build a career with.’

Laura Parry, who passed her final exams in June 2007, joined KTS Owens Thomas in Cardiff, UK, after completing a business administration degree at Cardiff University in Wales. ‘I wanted to stay in Cardiff, and was really keen to work with KTS Owens Thomas because it had just come out of a merger and so I knew it would be a growing firm.’ Parry had a feeling she would fit in with the company during her interview. ‘The people seemed really friendly,’ she says. Another new trainee to KTS Owens Thomas is Giles McNamara who joined in January 2007 as a trainee accountant. ‘I had graduated a few years previously and worked in London in a marketing role. I had a change of heart and realised that becoming a qualified accountant would open up a lot of doors for me.’ A friend recommended KTS Owens Thomas to McNamara as a good place to work. ‘I was lucky enough to be taken on as one of two trainees in 2007, and so far I’m really enjoying it,’ he adds.

Ben Taylor joined Champion, a medium-sized practice in Manchester, UK, in 2004. ‘I was impressed by their website and the way that they seemed to offer more than a standard accountancy practice,’ says Taylor. ‘When it came to the interview, it was friendly and informal, yet informative. The team all seemed very enthusiastic about what they did.’ Clare Tattersall started at Champion as an administrator in April 2004 and then moved to audit support. In November 2006, Tattersall moved into the audit and accounts team as a junior and started studying for ACCA. ‘I originally choose Champion because it seemed a friendly company offering plenty of opportunities because they appeared to do more than you would expect of an average accountancy firm,’ says Tattersall.

For many people working in small and medium-sized practices, the ethos of the firm is of great importance. ‘There is a family feel to Carpenter Box,’ says Young. ‘The people are friendly, we’re all quite local, and we’re dealing with local clients’.

‘There is a good working atmosphere,’ agrees Parry at KTS Owens Thomas. ‘We’re good friends and the people really make it enjoyable. It is informal and relaxed with an open-door policy and no barriers in the office. I think it’s important to have this good atmosphere – I know I enjoy it.’

As Platinum level Approved Employers – trainee development, Carpenter Box, KTS Owens Thomas, and Champion have the highest levels of trainee support. In addition to the more usual assistance such as paying for exams and tuition, many medium-sized firms are creative with their trainee support. ‘Carpenter Box runs training sessions on different aspects of practical accounting so that we can learn more from colleagues,’ explains Lovett. ‘For someone who is enthusiastic about learning, like myself, this not only provides a great way to revise, but also increases your general knowledge.’

KTS Owens Thomas is keen to develop a supportive student culture. ‘The recent ACCA members act as mentors, and give ACCA students support throughout the exams,’ says Parry. ‘We have regular meetings with our mentors, who also liaise with our tuition providers and ACCA to help with administration. It really makes it much easier for me, as it means that I only have to focus on taking the exams and doing my job.’ In addition, KTS Owens Thomas organises weekend workshops run by the managing director and other directors. ‘We gain some real-life experience which we can use in the exams. We know we’re really well supported – but having the MD give up his time really makes us feel valued,’ admits Parry.

Support to gain practical experience isn’t overlooked either. ‘Carpenter Box has recently developed a formalised plan of job rotation to ensure all trainees get the right training,’ says Young. Parry explains that KTS Owens Thomas has recently reorganised and the accountants work in teams. ‘It should help us broaden our horizons,’ she says. ‘Management understands how important it is for us to get our training and makes sure that any gaps can be filled in,’ explains Parry. All KTS Owens Thomas trainees have their work reviewed by their line manager each month. ‘We use a trainee review form that is similar in format to ACCA’s Student Training Record (STR). Our managers sign off certain competences, and it is really straightforward for us to carry that over to the STR forms,’ says Parry. As a recent starter, Lovett has found that his training is just as important as passing the exams. ‘ACCA is such a diverse qualification, but I have found that working at Carpenter Box complements this. Every six months, students have an appraisal to assess their development and ensure that training records are up to date. I think this is a great way to ensure that students receive the necessary training and experience.’

‘Champion has always given ACCA students an excellent level of support,’ says Taylor, who became an ACCA member in 2007, ‘and this is improving all the time. As well as tuition courses and time off work for studying, we also receive supported on-the-job training and monthly internal training to ensure that we are meeting our own development needs and the needs of our clients.’

Compared with bigger firms, trainees working at small and medium-sized practices often have the opportunity to develop higher#8209;level skills and client contact.

As a trainee accountant in the audit department at Carpenter Box, Lovett is learning how to audit small companies and not-for-profit organisations. ‘Most of the audit and accounts work is done on spreadsheets but I am also preparing files for clients. This helps me understand what to expect in client files and how they are set up. I have also done some work for the business services group, which has given me a basic understanding of the practicalities of accounting,’ he explains.

Young too has gained good experience of different aspects of accountancy, which might not have been so easy working for a larger firm. ‘Even though I work for Carpenter Box’s Business Services Group, I have been able to do both audit and tax, and this has given me a good insight for my future career development,’ she says.

Parry, at KTS Owens Thomas, works closely with her director, which has led to her having quite a lot of responsibility. ‘I also get a good amount of client contact – my manager encourages this because it enables me to build relationships that will stand me in good stead as I progress further up the company,’ she adds.

Although he has only recently entered the accountancy profession, McNamara can already see the benefits of working for a medium-sized firm. ‘As trainees, we get exposure in a number of key areas – and once qualified this will help me to fulfil my goal of working in corporate finance,’ he says.

Both Taylor and Tattersall believe that they have benefited from working for a medium#8209;sized firm such as Champion. ‘The work is varied,’ says Tattersall. ‘You get to see a job through from start to finish, and you can see how the whole process of audit and accounts preparation works.’ In addition, Taylor believes that he has been able to develop more personal relationships with clients and feels that he can really make an impact on their business. ‘As a smaller organisation, we face many of the same challenges as our clients – so we have hands-on experience of what the client is going through in growing their business. The smaller size of the firm also means that you really get to know the team and there’s always someone to help.’

With the support on offer, both in terms of training and exams, the firms are obviously keen to keep hold of their newly-qualified accountants. ‘Career progression is good at Carpenter Box,’ says Young. ‘As well as specialist and technical areas, we also have the option of moving into management. Although the practice is not too big, Carpenter Box is large enough to have lots of different clients and a varied workload. So there are lots of options for me.’

‘Just before the final exams, we meet with the KTS Owens Thomas managing director to discuss our career plans,’ explains Parry. ‘This gives us an opportunity to candidly discuss where we see ourselves in the future and then together we work out a means to achieve that goal. Whether you want to specialise in a particular area, become partner, move into business advisory services, or ultimately move on from the company, this is discussed. It gives you the structure you need to plan your future career.’

For Tattersall, who has already progressed from an administrator role to trainee accountant, the opportunities for career development are clear ‘After I qualify, I am confident that there will be chances for further progression at Champion.’

Approved employer programme
Visit www.accaglobal.com/students/training_careers for details of employers and training opportunities. In addition, this section also contains links to a host of career support resources.

ACCA’s Approved Employer programme – trainee development stream recognises the learning opportunities employers provide for trainees working towards either the CAT or ACCA Qualification.

There are three levels of approval – silver, gold, and platinum, and the scheme is accessible to all employers. The level of approval awarded reflects the support employers provide to trainees. It is also progressive, enabling organisations approved at silver or gold levels to work towards a higher level of approval.

The practising certificate development stream recognises employers who provide learning opportunities for trainees and members training towards the ACCA practising certificate or the ACCA practising certificate and audit qualification. If you want a specific list of ACCA Approved Employers – practising certificate development, e-mail students@accaglobal.com for further information.

Trainee development matrix (TDM) exemption
Trainees who work for an Approved Employer – trainee development stream at the gold or platinum level are exempt from completing the TDM when achieving their practical experience requirements (PER). Why not encourage your employer to apply to become an Approved Employer at this level? They can do this either online at www.accaglobal.com/employers or by contacting their local ACCA business relationship manager.

Visit www.accaglobal.com/employers/approved for more information about ACCA Approved Employers.

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

- 4thelement - 10-05-2007

its a much needed question from all of my peers and seniors who r either working in an audit firm or in any kind of accountancy profession, what is the eligibility criteria in FRSH AND MYASCO, i have passed ACCA F1-F8 and applied for both the firms but didnt received any call from FRSH and waiting for a call from MYASCO, i just want to know the probability or possiblity of being selected in MYASCO (M. Yousuf Adil Saleem & Co.) am currently working at BDO Ebrahim and Co. and have worked for a year in Riaz Ahmed Saqib Gohar and Co.

- Schuaeb - 10-06-2007

I guess I have posted my view on similar situation on another thread. Hopefully other members can come with better suggestions.

- khurram_jamal - 10-08-2007

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nabeelanwer</i>
<br />Conclusion I got from all above discussion

" GO FOR BIG4 FIRST THEN ELSEWHERE"

But a point still requires further clarifications

"Wether after articles from BIG4 one is able enough to start his/her own practise."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[V][V][V][V][V][V]

- shsaeed - 10-08-2007

But Kanwal ka phol bhi tu kichar main ugta hay.

I think if one can have his own skills
Then either he get articleship from small firm
he shall shine like a diamond , but
it must contain diamond qualities.

So Before criticize on small firm , first strong yourself.

Muhammad Asim Saeed

- Schuaeb - 10-10-2007

Asim its beyond any doubt that the thing which is going to count primarily is one's own skills. I have mentioned this on a number of places on this forum.

I always said priority should be given to better firms and if not so... life does not end after big3 or even top10.

The reasons why preference is being given to top firms is that the provide a healthy enironment for one to nurture his/her skills and competencies. Plus the tag of the firm can make a little different while hunting for your first job. Additionally, big firms can help one in making good contects and references in the field.

Small firms have got their own benefits, I have discussed some of them earlier. So its not a matter of criticism at all.

I, at one place, give my view about the things count after completion of your training in following order

1-Qualification
2-One's innate and acquired skills
3-Firm

Regards
Shoaib


- shsaeed - 10-11-2007

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Schuaeb</i>
<br />
I, at one place, give my view about the things count after completion of your training in following order

1-Qualification
2-One's innate and acquired skills
3-Firm

Regards
Shoaib

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Shoaib bhai its mean that An ACA professional
life stand on these three pillars , and if anyone is
weak , it will cause to low our rating.
Am I right understand????

Muhammad Asim Saeed Sheikh

- Schuaeb - 10-12-2007

You call these pillors or whatever, these, I think constitutes the pre-requistes for a chartered accountant. Another is hard work.

- shsaeed - 10-12-2007

Now i totally understand.

- Schuaeb - 10-13-2007

Hopefully you will understand things better when you will yourself enter in practical part of your studies, that is totally different experience

- shsaeed - 10-13-2007

You are right.
I am at learning stage and will know better
when i entered in practical life.