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+--- Thread: Suggestion Needed! (/showthread.php?tid=462)
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Suggestion Needed! - Nadia - 12-03-2003
Hi all!!!!!
i am a ca student and living in peshawar. can anyone tell me,what basically we should look for in a firm for articleship? As u guys wil be aware , that peshawar is a small city , and there is none of the top ten firms here. What i hear from people is that i shouldnt be doing it in Peshawar, since none of the firm have listed companies with them, so scope of learning will be very low.
Well, I am very willing to move to lahore or islamabad(infact applied in KPMG lhr) but i m little worried about the late sittings of audit.Since being a girl and living in another city , i m not sure what kinds of problems i will be facing.
Anyways what i really want to know is what we infact value in firms???? And can anyone tell me about any good women hostle in lahore?????????
- jbladeus - 12-03-2003
Hi
In my opinion, three of the most important things to consider in a firm are
1) whether the firm provides good exposure during the articleship period of a trainee. By getting good exposure we generally mean that a trainee should look to get experience of audits and other types of assignements in as diverse types of industries and companies as possible, be they public or private, listed or unlisted, manufacturing or service industry, banks or other financial institutions etc.
2) whether the firm provides the students with ample exam preparation leaves. Some firms are really miserly with respect to allowing study leaves to their students, while some are known to be quite student-friendly. Just remember that one's main objective is to pass the CA exams, and audit exposure comes after that, ie. if you have got all the exposure in the world but havent cleared your exams, it wont count for much.
3) the period which has to be spent before the firm gives you registration. The situation used to be pretty bad, and firms used to give registrations to their trainees areound 6-8 months after joining, but nowadays what i am hearing is that things have improved considerably since those bad old days.
Cant help much about the hostel situation in lahore. I used to have a few female collegues who came from other cities like quetta and some from even lahore and islamabad who used to reside in hostels here in karachi during their articleship periods. Will ask em about the hostel situation over here if u are interested.
________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
- jbladeus - 12-03-2003
As far as late sittings are concerned, firms do consider these things for their female trainees, so you dont have to worry too much about it. But at the same time, be a little prepared for some late sittings, 'cos as you know they are part and parcel of our job and at times they do become unavoidable because of finalization of a client or stringent target dates.
P.S. AFF has a reputation of not being lenient about late-sittings for girls, but it does have the reputation of being among the top firms, so you will have to balance your options and then decide. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
- Evolution - 12-04-2003
i have a few female friends in karachi hostels as well. Let me know if u r interested. By the way the corporate sector of karachi is the best in Pakistan and offers the best oppurtunity to train
- Paki - 12-06-2003
there's just one thing about late sittings, they are down rightly sickening. but you can avoid them too if you want to, firms usually have a soft policy for ladies internees sitting late, however some ladies prefer to sit late - u know, equality <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
living in another city, that's definitely a problem, even I've got boyfriends and karachi was not their home town they also had trouble,,,, try if you can find some of your relatives that you can stay with.
there are various views regarding what one should value in a firm, so you dont get into that discussion (cause its no use) but the thing you need to know is that either go for one of the top 3 or its no use leaving your place for other firms, I mean in that case its the same as working in peshawar.
for preparation leaves , I think AFF is the best, but am not so sure about its probation period, I think they had given it up earlier but then reinstalled it,,,,, u know the partners <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
Me rulz
- Nadia - 12-06-2003
Thanx Guybrush,Evoluition and paki!!!!!
Guy brush!!!! Thanks for the detailed response. can u tell me what problems students face, who work with other than top 5 or with smaller firms. What exactly a differnece is between students who become qualified chartered accountants after working with AFF and KPMG and those who have copmpleted their articles with some smaller firm????? i m sorry pretty childish question, coz i have a little idea, but i think u can explain better.
Paki!!! i agree with the fact that if i dont get the top 3 firms ,then its no use taking the trouble of moving to another city and thats what i have in my mind .But can u mention the firms for which i should move to some other city?????
Evolution, thanx alot for ur offer ,Y i m reffering to lahore and isb is that , i spent one year at lahore for my Fe-2, and karachi is so farr off, i cant take in the the thought of being this far that i cant meet my family except on eidss and so.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
One more thing is it ok to start articles unregistered even when u r not done with the foundatio. I mean one paper!!! actually i m stuck with IT-2 of module D, but i have spent so many time, that now i really wan to g for articles and thats what most of my friends suggest who r in articles???
Anyone plz Advise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Waiting............... <img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>
<font face='Arial'></font id='Arial'>
- jbladeus - 12-07-2003
The main problem which a small-firm trainee faces afterwards is in getting jobs in large-sized local companies, multinationals and financial institutions. The common perception in these companies is (and in a way rightly so) that the trainees coming from a smaller firm do not have the required level of exposure to work in a large-sized company, a multinational or a financial institution.
It has been seen that trainees coming from top firms get higher starting salary packages than ppl qualified from smaller firms. Inspite of saying all this, i have seen one or two exceptional cases though. The prime example being the company secretary of Unilever Pakistan who qualified from a small firm, but then after qualification he also did LLB and specialised in copyright laws, and if i am not mistaken also did MBA. So in a way, he eliminated the negative aspects which he carried from his small-firm articleship.
Dont want to discourage anybody, but i would agree with evolution that Karachi is the best place to get proper exposure. The thing is that most banks, multinationals and large-sized pakistani companies have got their headoffices in karachi. As a result, top firms like AFF, FRSH and KPMG just have comparatively marginal presence in cities like lahore and islamabad, and which are just mainly there to provide support in the form of branch audits on behalf of the main offices, whereas the bulk of the audits are conducted at the headoffices themsleves. The exception in this case is MYASCO which has a significant presence in Faisalabad(?) as it has a huge number of textile mills in its portfolio.
Nadia, in karachi the top firms are FRSH, AFF, KPMG, MYASCO and KMRSRIR. Cant say much about the situation in other cities. Maybe SMR and Bowman who i believe are from lahore would be able to tell about their city.
There's nothing wrong with joining a firm before completing your foundation, but just remember that you wont get registered from ICAP until and unless you have completed your foundation. And since you wont be registered, therefore the firms won't be bound to give you many exam leaves as promised to a registered trainee in ICAP's articleship contract.
________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
- samyah - 12-12-2003
Hi Nadia as far as joinin firm is concerned i'll recommend u to go for
FRSH cuz they r quite linient with girls plus second topmost firm n u can leave early too while this is not at all possiable in AFF .For KMPG i've listened that they have quite biased atitude with girls(but i believe its everywhere)if u want me to name women hostle in Karachi i can find it out for u.
But remember working in firm is really tough so dont make high expectations nywys best of luck .
- Nadia - 12-12-2003
Thanx Samyah!!!
i will definitely apply for FRSH coz i have already heard quite lot about it. If i m worried about late sittiings, that doesnt mean i m scared of hardwork, its only bcoz living in another city u have to take care of too many other things. And i believe every CA student and those who r sticking to it are really hard woking, so i have an idea that firms really make u work.
Samyah! thanx again for ur offer regarding hostel! i m really begining to change my mind about lahore, coz i see all Karachi fellows are trying to help me ,so i guess karachi would be better choice and it would be easier to stay there.........thats what i guessed from the helpful attitude of karchiites of this forum.
I wonder isnt there anyone on this forum from LAHORE???? Or lahori fellows dont think it good to help out others?????????? OR they r too proudyyyyyyyyy???????<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
- smraza - 12-12-2003
HEY GUYBRUSH,
I M BASICALLY FROM KARACHI, BUT I JUST DID MY BCOM FROM PUNJAB UNIVERSITY, SO I SPENT 2 AND HALF YEARS OF MY LIFE IN LAHORE.
SMR
- Ed - 12-12-2003
AOA !
Well, the notion that lahorites are not helpful should have been dispelled if u've spent u'r FE-2 time in Lahore.....the forum probably has more members from Karachi & also the concentration of students in Karachi exceeds that of lahore.
Well having spent my articles time in Karachi but belonging to Lahore I can tell you taht there isn't a world of difference in training b/w Lahore & Karachi.....the no. of Clients may be limited in Lahore but the exposure for an articles student is enough for anybody to make the most of his articles training....& exposure too, depends on a lot of other factors, than just getting into a firm with a large client base.....factors specifically relating to the office/department & people u'll be working in.
The notion that a particular firm "Favours" females is perhaps misleading,coz the onus of a lot of late-sitting is on the Senior or Manager of the Job.....its a case-specific situation & normally these people consider faminity as a reason good enough for exemption/reduction of late-sittings.....the trick is to concentrate on completing ur assigned work in minimum possible time....& that is something which is easily said than done...
Though, bear in mind, getting into a big firm in Lahore is tougher than in Karachi coz of the larger in-take of students in Karachi.
Regarding the hostel situation, i'm afraid i won't be of much help. I know that a lot of people from outside Lahore live in Punjab University Hostels based on their acquantances with the students. What u can do is find a temporary arrangement for staying a while, get into a firm, & then u can arrange for an accomodation consulting females in the firm...
So, consider ur options, weigh the pros & cons & decide sensibly.
Best of Luck
Ed.
Security is merely a superstition, Life is either a daring adventure or nothing!
- Bowman - 12-12-2003
Hey hey hey !!!!!!!!!!! all this negativity about Lahore inspite you did your Foundation from there..â¦â¦ I just did not replied earlier as the knowing about Girlsâ Hostels is not my domainâ¦..
As far as Late sitting in firms are concerned, generally at Lahore offices of KPMG/AFF/FRSH, they are a bit lenient for girls sitting late. However, the decision to sit late by girls is not considered at firmâs level and is usually dependant on the Job Incharge. I completed my articles from KPMG and I usually let them off by 6/6.30 from clientâs office and from firmâs office by 7.30 . However occasionally there may come times where you may have to sit later than that.
And you should try to get into first three firms because of their clientsâ environment i.e. MNC/banks etc. At KPMG, mostly girls are deputed on audit of banks coz of conducive environment and I believe that same phenomenon exists at other two as well.
Finally as Ed said earlier, Consider ur options, weigh the pros & cons & decide sensibly.
Best of Luck
- smh - 12-12-2003
O my God Is lahore getting short of representations. Well I am from Lahore so cheer Up (kidding)
Comparing lahore with karachi is just like what we study in SFM comparing two Similat IRR projects with different sizes <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
Being a lahorite and currently associated with the top firm ( having served few months for the second best) my suggestions are as
AFF
Good exposure of all sort of clients. Lot of ladies currenlty working so its kinna comfortable in there. A lot of hostel in all vacinities frm Rs 2500 pm upto what eva one can afford. 9 to 5 usually with late sittings per the willingness of Female students
Ford rhodes
A firm mixed with two different mentalities. One's which never used to have girls in firm( sidat hyder) and currntly oppose them and second which had the girls but the environment was not working for them (the need for there merger). Still they are inducting girls\\
KPMG
very small no. of human resource (40-45 as compared to AFF 150-170). Not a very diversified portfolio of clients. Mostly inclined towards banks branches audit but still they have firndly atmosphere.
Talking abt over all competetion. well KPMG is the best if u are like a Chillin kinna person" AFF for girls is and has always been ideal. As far as FRSH is concerned there induction regarding girls is getting hard due to the influnce of there equal merged Party (sidat hyder)
Lahore's accomodation and timings are very ideal. They belielve in cost benefit analysis. As far as head office in Khi thing is concerned. Its very true however still a lot of blue chips are in lahore ( eg Nestle, Packages, mitchells, DG cement, Nishat Textile, Cresecnt group, Honda Cars Coca Cola, Pepsi and a lot of others,
Having worked with some karachites and knowing there views its like they are kinna bored of there fast moving lives.
Any way option is with u. I would further suggest u to cleat the IT 2 paper first and then look for the firms rather shift in some hostel etc in lahore or khi ( as u opt for ) and after clearing paper fill the application forms etc
Bye bye
I can be contacted at my email too.
smh
- Bowman - 12-12-2003
p.s. i think that you should prefer FRSH....as they have larger concentration of girls if compared with KPMG and AFF..
- Bowman - 12-12-2003
agreed with smh....regarding FRSH situation....... Girls were plenty there when it was FRRM and Nil in case of Sidat Hyder.