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+--- Thread: Family & Motherland vs Peace & Stability (/showthread.php?tid=4932)
Family & Motherland vs Peace & Stability - imrank - 01-09-2008
Salam alaikum dear brothers & sisters,
I have posted in the forum before but am now facing a very difficult time in deciding my next move.
I have been in Australia for about 10 years and have now convinced myself 'enough is enough'. I am married and both of us miss our family. We miss those little surprises in life. Life in the West is just too stable and boring, but yes there is peace and stability. Recent turmoil in Pakistan (Ms Bhutto) is in my mind and we often ask ourselves 'is it worth it?' At the same time I do not want to raise my children in this culture where there is simply no respect for elders, let alone 'impurity'.
I am a qualified CA from Australia who wants to make a difference in Pakistan. I want to pursue my career in Pakistan as I see demand and growth of qualified Professionals. I now ask you guys 'is it worth it?' Would I get a fair go in Pakistan? Would my career blossom? I have about 5/6 years experience in Accounting and know the 'Australian Laws' and not the 'Pakistani' Laws as such. Does that make a difference.
I would be very thankful if suggestions could be given. I really want to make a decision and ofcourse I am not a 100% relying on your input. I want feedback on the Professional Life in Pakistan.
Thanks a lot,
Imran
- kamranACA - 01-10-2008
Dear,
It is in the nature of human that he cannot get satisfaction anywhere and by doing anything. Human is created from "jumping/hurdling water" and also from "clotted blood". Anyways, I dont go in this discussion.
I have witnessed so many CAs, doctors and other professionals who have or who wish to leave Pakistan by finding jobs in gulf, UK, USA, Australia etc and who are striving for HSMP and other visa methodologies.
One of my friends is at UK, he is CA and ACCA qualified and has concieved two kids. His wife is a specilist doctor. He had have a plan to revert to Pakistan when he left the country back in 2001. Last year, he was here on Pakistan's tour, when one of our common friend was murdered by anonymous people without any reason. Since we know that man very deep, thats why we can say with surety that he was murdered without any reason. At the funeral he met me. He was shocked. He said, I want my kids to come back and live here in Pakistan after getting some financial stability for them and for the entire family. But, he said, after seeing this murder, I think I should change my decision.
We know a man could be killed any where and being a muslim we must believe that the time which we have to lay down in grave cannot come out of it. This is for sure. Still, still, still, should one not take measures of safetly and security just for the sake of above faith. This is very critical question and one has to answer it himself before taking any such decision which Mr. Imran wants to take.
I have a list of questions (which is not all inclusive by any means) which should be answered by you Mr. Imran before taking decision.
- Is in ur country (aust) army (even having oath of serving and obeying govt of the country) can ask the public, "what is ur agenda if u want to rule the country?" "Come, share the agenda and then we will consider would it be justified to let you take some responsibilities to govern the country."
- Is in ur country suicidal attacks of such a huge number take place on the name of religion or God?
- Is in ur country army man who is servant of the government and nation can whenever he wants get into power and impose his policies and jeopardize the role of media and polticians?
- Is in ur country courts decide whatarmy wants?
- Is in ur country judges are beaten and jailed for their independent decisions?
- How many blind murders remain un-surfaced in ur country?
- How many figures of society are daily killed without any justification? and how many leaders have been killed in ur country during last fifty years?
- Do you have to make all arrangements of security, safety, medical, social, transportations, health, etc etc at ur own at ur country where u live? Rest assured in Pakistan every thing is ur responsibility with none responsibility of government. See Musharraf says, Benazir died due to her own mistake, she should have not come out of the roof of her jeap.
- Is ur traffic system so poor as ours is? Our traffic jams last for many hours even.
- Have u seen such agitations and illiterate behaviour as we saw on 27 December onwards by mobs agitating against BB's murder? We set to fire all roads, trains, properties, banks, ATMS, cars, buses and everything which came into our way. Do you people do the same? People of Sindh and Islamabad in particular (specially Karachi and Hyderabad) and all Pakistan in general remained jailed in homes during four or five days due to such turmoil. So many innocents lost lives as they could not reach hospitals. This is our social behaviour and what we do in such circumstances, we just blame everything to jewish lobby. Lolz. How innocent we are. So many ambulences of Edhi trust have been set to fire. My Gosh. What was their fault? Who did this? Jewish lobby? Never, we did this all.
- Pakistan bifurcated into two countaries in 1971. The Hamood-ur-Rehman commission report on this incident came after 30 years almost. So much efficient we are. Are you upto it?
- Do you feel like coming back to homes, whenever you go out for your works? We certainly not feel so. We are never so confident specially in NWFP, Karachi, Islamabad and other such areas. Yeh aur baat hai keh abb hamara ehsaas hee marr gaya hai. My brother says, yaar people even live in Bairut.
- Do you receive anonymous calls that we are bala bala political party, send us bala bala donation in three days, otherwise ur office will be shuttered down and we will see how will u operate ur business? We are now very much used to receive such calls. Still we are muslims and our country is Islamic Republic and everything odd is done by yahoodi lobby.
- Is every australian enemy of other on the basis of caste, language and area? Rest assured we are. Punjabi, sindhi, mahajir, baloch, saraikee etc are sufficient reasons to be enemy of each other here in my Pakistan. We dont have sympathies for each other. We dont have a common agenda. Every one feels the other looting all the resources and his-self deprived of this noble task.
- Is there any merit at Australia for education, jobs, posts etc? In Pakistan there is only one merit i.e. strong reference. Your abilities have nothing to do with in most of the cases. I dont speak about rare cases.
- Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, ..................................
So, its good to come back to ur own country but you must consider each and every thing. Your decision must not be such which might make you to feel urself wrong in future.
You can also try UK, it is better than Aust so far it has so many pakistanies and you can find some of ur culture with almost all facilities of Aust.
Best regards,
Kamran.
- Schuaeb - 01-11-2008
It seems that Kamran u suggested him to stay where he is. It a think is very painful thing for any Pakistani suggesting others not to come back, but so regretfully it is what that is adviseable. Life in Pakistan nowadays I must say is not different from Beriut, Iraq or Afghanistan. The bomb blast in Lahore put this city that was considered safe in the same category. Situation have changed so drastically in Pakistan in a very short span of time especially in 2007.
I will say those who want to return to Pakistan should wait for sometime. Coming days are to decide our wait and I think its not going to take much time. This turmoil is not continous, it will end in both cases. One that is desirable and other I wont talk about that.
- kamranACA - 01-12-2008
Dear Shoaib,
You are right. In fact I dont abstain or try to abstain any one from coming back to his country. i just explained the situation.
I today discussed the case of Mr. Imran with my partner and told him what I have suggested. My partner is very emotional for Pakistan and islam and is a true patriot. He just smiled on hearing my suggestion and even a person like him said
....."ask that guy to choose between the two; first, [danger of losing his kids to modernized culture and christianity and distancing from islam's teachings]; second, [danger of entirely losing the lives of their own and their childern and danger of crushing down all the expectations and love which that guy and his spouse might have in their hearts (minds) and wish to develope in their childerns' hearts as well from/for their country and danger of facing hunger in some changed scenario;"]......
I added to his sentence. Sir, here in Pakistan there is equally an other threat which u have ignored. He asked what? I replied, sir, the threat of losing the kids to modernized (faranggy) culture and christianity and distancing from islam's teachings. This equally exist in Pakistan. In all modern and posh areas, I dont see a single one among the youth who dont try to follow the style, face, acts, language of faranggy fascinated people. How many among the youth of these areas offer prayers and keep fasting. How many among the youth of these areas are not inclined to drinking, watching and acting indicent things. And, if we leave these areas and go back to poors or lower middle class. I cant even speak what I know by virtue of my observation of the society. What not and what not exists in this society. I dont much feel it a muslim society at all. I again say, we do whatever yahoodies have ever done and whatever any other kaafir could be expected to do, and eventually we never take resposnibility and simply declare every thing to be a conspiracy of hindu or jewish lobby.
{with appologise from any non-muslim who may read it and feel hurt. This is not to hurt any one. This is just to analyze character of our ownselves who call them muslims}
On hearing my argument, my partner requested me not to debate further.
Basically, this is our last resort.
Hoping (praying) the new Islamic year will start a pleasant era for all muslims and we may think to correct our faults and develop unity to address our common issues by stopping arguing for and against the specifications of a cow to be slaughtered.
Happy new Islamic year to every one specially muslims.
Best regards,
Kamran.
- Schuaeb - 01-16-2008
I think Kamran, you, your partner and I have suggested almost same thing to Mr. Imran. Only I would add to it that situation in Pakistan will soothe Inshallah very soon. So anybody who is thinking about any such decision should wait for some time.
I will disagree slightly to the later part of your comment. Kamran this is a changing world and the doctrine of change is ununderstandable. No body can support demoralization, however, according to the view of talibanised Muslims people like us also fall in the category of those people who are following frangis. Plus evil things have alwasys remained in every culture throughout the history. Karbla took place in the earliest days of Islam. History of Muslims is more painful than the present condition of Muslims. So, instead of thinking about imposing a cultural change we should be thinking of moral strengthening of Muslims with more focus on collective affairs. We are trying to make Islam similar to christianity. Our religion is not stubborn and has got the ability to adjust to the circumstances of this changing world. When the Creator has created a changing world how could He impose a stubborn religion. By saying all this I never mean that drinking or any sort of moral corruption is acceptable ever. Islam focuses more on civilization of humaity and collective affairs. This, I think, is a very sensitive issue, and my littlest knowledge never allows me to comment on this.
You are right that declaring everything a conspiracy won't help.
- sportyspice - 01-23-2008
yaar sab baton ki ik baat....jis mulk mai pale barhe...jis mulk nai tumhe is kabil banaya ke tum aaj bahar jaa ke paisa kama sakte ho....ajj tum us mulk mai wapis nahi ana chahte....
pakistan maybe having problems..one of my friends listed down quite a number of them....but friend i can list the same number of goods that we have in pakistan....
apna mulk apna hai...apne log apne hain...aur yaar pakistan mai gharib ko masle hain..agar tumhare paas paisa hai toa tuhari ayashi hai..tum toa paisa kama ke hi ayo ge na..phir kiya masla hai...
my sugestion is to come back and regarding the australian accountancy laws thing...yaar pakistani laws seekhne mai kitna time lage ga....aur tume yahan ake aik repectable b start karsakte ho..oi prb nahi hogi.akhir tum aik CA ho with seven years of experiene
- kamranACA - 01-29-2008
Dears,
Shoaib,
You are right in saying that good and bad exist in every society and also in saying that history of muslims has so many times been much ruined than the current situation.
However, I raise one point out of ur statement. If good and bad exist in every society and every era then why we (specially as muslim) concentrate on a specific country. Why we talk about separate countries, so-called religious independence (this could be discussed at length), defined boundaries etc etc. I know for Sovereignty of a nation a country is necessary. But for Sovereignty of a religion like Islam boundaries donât have lots of meaning if we talk in individual capacity.
In my view a muslim in its individual capacity can live any where preserving its own character and character of next generation (if he work hard for it) and in that he/she could be proved much better for the cause of Islam than any other muslim who lives within the boundaries of a Sovereign muslim country.
When I discussed ugly face of Pakistani society I meant to clarify that good and bad is in existence every where and Pakistan is not an exception.
Now coming to sporty spice,
Dear, you said that our country made us capable for what we are. Just remember one thing. Countries never make their people. People always make their countries. This may be hard to digest but this is reality. Nothing of this statement abstains from feeling patriotism.
Further, you said you can list down the merits of my country. I love my country like you do. But I must say with certainty that merits will fall much much short of demerits, if we continue to debate. What my country gave me??? Letâs discuss very basic general issues
EDUCATION? No it was never free. Every student and his parents always pay for it and simple governmental studies are normally not up to the mark causing students to get tuitions or private schools. You can never ever compare student of LUMS and IBA with student of KU or other governmental institution. You can never compare atchisonians with a student of normal population. Every where money and reference is needed. Now if u say that LUMS and IBA and Atchison are also in Pakistan then I must say it cannot be considered a merit of a common man who cannot afford it.
HEALTH? Mashallah, have u ever visited governmental hospitals? Can any civil hospital compete a private hospital. Is medical aid free in Pakistan? Can any one get free of cost precious medicines for dangerous diseases? Can any one have a free check up from a consultant doctor with same attention as one can get on private clinics? How many innocents daily die in our hospitals due to lack of proper medication and facilities?
FOOD? Pakistan is one of the worst places in the world if we check how costly is the food availability (good hygienic food). Here in Pakistan rice are being sold at 75 Rupees per Kg and Wheat flour is from Rs 25 to Rs 45 depending upon how much the seller is empowered to loot the innocents. Does our poor eat same fruit which we export out? Can a person having Rs 4600 per month salary (minimum legal pay as per our governmental rules i.e. Roughly 35 to 40 British pounds per month or 75 to 80 USD per month) afford good food? What a merit is this?
UTILITIES? Again Mashallah. Pakistan is not supposed to get rid of its power crises until 2016. Pakistan severely lacks the availability of Gas resources. Gas import from Iran is always opposed by other countries. Our coal resources are still un-employed. Government announced Rs 4.83 as tariff rate for coal fired power projects recently. Would any body come to invest in far off areas (where even drinking water is not available) at this rate. I donât see it to happen as Sind Coal Authority perceives. Who will go to a place like "Thar" for a return of 10% to 15% on invested capital to establish coal fired projects? Should he not place his funds in portfolios of scripts, diversified mutual funds or variety of international banks for getting this rate with more diversification of involved risk factor against equal or better reward? Our water dams are now becoming worthless. We never tried to make new reservoirs. Our all prophecies and brags have died now. Pakistani nation is in severe crises of power, gas and water. Do you think it could be sorted out in near future. I donât think so. Our roads and infrastructure is worst in the world, and if some where roads are good (like highways and motorways), we the Pakistanis have to pay the cost of getting our vehicle on these roads. We pay in advance and then use the roads. There is nothing in the concept of "FALAHI RIYAASAT". Our utility prices are highest in the world and we always try to boost our prices for covering our losses and escalating costs which mainly escalate due to corruption. The subsidy on petrol (Rs 7 per liter) is just going to be rescinded, as Salman Shah has declared. This means a citizen of Pakistan is not to be benefited by its government.
SECURITY? We have been declared a place more dangerous than Afghanistan and Iraq and believe you me it is not untrue. Come out of your posh areas and see what a common citizen has to face. The causes of murders of our leaders have never been digged out. What treatment a common citizen can expect? Bombs, firings, fire out of properties and vehicles, collusions in educational institutes, robberies, murders, police encounters etc etc are at peak in Pakistan. Has any body any doubt?
So these are the basic things. Why to go for lesser important issues? Why not to discuss the above baseline problems?
"Apney loge".....Where are apney loge my friend?
Sporty spice, You live in some heavenly part of Pakistan I think.
Anyways, its good to read out comments of members on this issue. Its good if we donât close down our eyes like a pigeon do on seeing a cat.
Hope to see some further healthy discussion.
Regards,
Kamran.
- Schuaeb - 02-05-2008
Infact I had been pretty busy with my assignments, infact, I will remain busy for some time. So, I had long absents from the forum.
I hope I will come to this topic soon
- ina - 02-05-2008
Kamran! I appreciate you always reply with great detail, amazing!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />
Dears,
Shoaib,
You are right in saying that good and bad exist in every society and also in saying that history of muslims has so many times been much ruined than the current situation.
However, I raise one point out of ur statement. If good and bad exist in every society and every era then why we (specially as muslim) concentrate on a specific country. Why we talk about separate countries, so-called religious independence (this could be discussed at length), defined boundaries etc etc. I know for Sovereignty of a nation a country is necessary. But for Sovereignty of a religion like Islam boundaries donât have lots of meaning if we talk in individual capacity.
In my view a muslim in its individual capacity can live any where preserving its own character and character of next generation (if he work hard for it) and in that he/she could be proved much better for the cause of Islam than any other muslim who lives within the boundaries of a Sovereign muslim country.
When I discussed ugly face of Pakistani society I meant to clarify that good and bad is in existence every where and Pakistan is not an exception.
Now coming to sporty spice,
Dear, you said that our country made us capable for what we are. Just remember one thing. Countries never make their people. People always make their countries. This may be hard to digest but this is reality. Nothing of this statement abstains from feeling patriotism.
Further, you said you can list down the merits of my country. I love my country like you do. But I must say with certainty that merits will fall much much short of demerits, if we continue to debate. What my country gave me??? Letâs discuss very basic general issues
EDUCATION? No it was never free. Every student and his parents always pay for it and simple governmental studies are normally not up to the mark causing students to get tuitions or private schools. You can never ever compare student of LUMS and IBA with student of KU or other governmental institution. You can never compare atchisonians with a student of normal population. Every where money and reference is needed. Now if u say that LUMS and IBA and Atchison are also in Pakistan then I must say it cannot be considered a merit of a common man who cannot afford it.
HEALTH? Mashallah, have u ever visited governmental hospitals? Can any civil hospital compete a private hospital. Is medical aid free in Pakistan? Can any one get free of cost precious medicines for dangerous diseases? Can any one have a free check up from a consultant doctor with same attention as one can get on private clinics? How many innocents daily die in our hospitals due to lack of proper medication and facilities?
FOOD? Pakistan is one of the worst places in the world if we check how costly is the food availability (good hygienic food). Here in Pakistan rice are being sold at 75 Rupees per Kg and Wheat flour is from Rs 25 to Rs 45 depending upon how much the seller is empowered to loot the innocents. Does our poor eat same fruit which we export out? Can a person having Rs 4600 per month salary (minimum legal pay as per our governmental rules i.e. Roughly 35 to 40 British pounds per month or 75 to 80 USD per month) afford good food? What a merit is this?
UTILITIES? Again Mashallah. Pakistan is not supposed to get rid of its power crises until 2016. Pakistan severely lacks the availability of Gas resources. Gas import from Iran is always opposed by other countries. Our coal resources are still un-employed. Government announced Rs 4.83 as tariff rate for coal fired power projects recently. Would any body come to invest in far off areas (where even drinking water is not available) at this rate. I donât see it to happen as Sind Coal Authority perceives. Who will go to a place like "Thar" for a return of 10% to 15% on invested capital to establish coal fired projects? Should he not place his funds in portfolios of scripts, diversified mutual funds or variety of international banks for getting this rate with more diversification of involved risk factor against equal or better reward? Our water dams are now becoming worthless. We never tried to make new reservoirs. Our all prophecies and brags have died now. Pakistani nation is in severe crises of power, gas and water. Do you think it could be sorted out in near future. I donât think so. Our roads and infrastructure is worst in the world, and if some where roads are good (like highways and motorways), we the Pakistanis have to pay the cost of getting our vehicle on these roads. We pay in advance and then use the roads. There is nothing in the concept of "FALAHI RIYAASAT". Our utility prices are highest in the world and we always try to boost our prices for covering our losses and escalating costs which mainly escalate due to corruption. The subsidy on petrol (Rs 7 per liter) is just going to be rescinded, as Salman Shah has declared. This means a citizen of Pakistan is not to be benefited by its government.
SECURITY? We have been declared a place more dangerous than Afghanistan and Iraq and believe you me it is not untrue. Come out of your posh areas and see what a common citizen has to face. The causes of murders of our leaders have never been digged out. What treatment a common citizen can expect? Bombs, firings, fire out of properties and vehicles, collusions in educational institutes, robberies, murders, police encounters etc etc are at peak in Pakistan. Has any body any doubt?
So these are the basic things. Why to go for lesser important issues? Why not to discuss the above baseline problems?
"Apney loge".....Where are apney loge my friend?
Sporty spice, You live in some heavenly part of Pakistan I think.
Anyways, its good to read out comments of members on this issue. Its good if we donât close down our eyes like a pigeon do on seeing a cat.
Hope to see some further healthy discussion.
Regards,
Kamran.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
- kamranACA - 02-06-2008
Thanks ina,
Regards,
Kamran.