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ICAP humiliating itself - Printable Version

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- kamranACA - 01-22-2009


I am sorry to write on this matter but it's embarrassing to see the language used by the two persons in some of the above posts.

I know sometimes the "like" warrants the others to reply a "like" but by no means such debates should entail the respectable names of the family members. It's quite painful. The words crap, rubbish, idiot, stupid, insane, mentally retarded etc should also be avoided, I agree. But the limit which has been crossed by Saifee in untenable. I understand that sometimes the words written by the one create a reaction, but, such reaction should not be like what we have seen.

I guess the very first critical post of Saifee was bad in taste specially when he personally asked Khalid for the advice. Khalid's point was valid. Saifee should have replied it differently. There could be so many logics and modalities to express his views. Further, Khalid should have not replied in the manner he did more specially when Saifee said his phrase is not for Khalid. I guess we can debate long enough, we may go harsh, but we should have all the ragard for others' respect. Mothers are the source of heaven for every one and one should be carefull while uttering out anything for the sake of a simple debate.

I request the Admin to delete those three posts from this thread immediately and I also request members to keep the matter to their ownselves.



- mroneflower - 01-22-2009


I have not yet reported SAIFEE this post to ICAP as I know it would create problem for him and it will not be good for his future. Should I report it to ICAP?.

I agree with Kamran that words like crap, rubbish, idiot, stupid, insane, mentally retarded etc should also be avoided. So we have agreement at laest at one point, Smile.


- rabia-k - 01-22-2009


- kamranACA - 01-22-2009


First of all you may not know all the particulars about Saifee to report this abuse of public forum to ICAP. Certainly without such detail ICAP will not do anything.

Secondly, it's a public forum and its abuse is required to be seriously viewed by the Admin. In fact it's not a matter within ICAP's jurisdiction and I am not sure legally ICAP is bound to or be willing to take the action on such a report. It may prove to be a perplexed rather futile effort disregarding you more enough. However, it should be clear to minds that every one on this forum will oppose such an abuse emanating from the debate which is not affecting us personally.

Thirdly, there are other such instances of crossing the limits by other participants which are normally ignored since those don't bring the sacred relations into question. However, if such reporting is a criterion to resolve the matter or conclude the debate, those all instances should be reported to relevant bodies as well. Simply the title of this thread and your comments about ICAP and its members generally are likely to be reported to your ACCA if you feel some analogy in such criteria. In my view such reporting makes no sense. Certainly no one will take action if someone calls the other with some disregarded names on a discussion forum which has its own rules. This is the headache of the Admin of this forum.

Fourthly, to avoid such treatment from others we all should bring some politeness, respect, courtesy, and harmony in our own posts and be careful if some one could be unduly disregarded just because of some ill experience of our own. This rule should apply to every one including me. Humanly errors and omissions should be ignored to keep the debates pleasant.


Finally, in my personal view, it is quite a good gesture that you are not reporting Saifee's case to ICAP regardless of whether or not it will affect him.



- kamranACA - 01-22-2009


If Saifee is seeing my post, I must advise him to delete his posts immediately. I wish he should do it at his own. I also request Khalid to delete his post as well.

This way reconciliation could be reached. Let's see who will take the first step.

Saifee, my dear, you should also post a word of apologies for going to such a level. This will not be the disrespect; rather you will be highly appreciated.



- mroneflower - 01-22-2009

i do not know about ICAP rules, but ACCA take action against its members and students if person acts brings

1) Discredit of person himself as a ACCA student or member.
2) Discredit to ACCA
3) Discredit to Accountancy profession.

As far as my posts and title of this forum are concerned they do not bring discredit to any. I know Saifee full name I also know he just started his ICAP studies and he is from Pashwar. These informations are enough if ICAP wants to take action as his post brings discredit to himself. Once again I am not sure about ICAP rules an code of ethics.


- kamranACA - 01-22-2009


You are again deriving wrong meanings as you normally do. ICAP follows the code of ethics of IFAC, I wonder if you follow something stricter.

You must also be knowing my name and I must tell you that there are so many ICAP's qualified CAs who have this name. Even if you go to all components making the name as a whole, I know we are two members of ICAP having this name and almost from similar region.

When you will go to the list of students, similarity could be enormous.

So you should understand what I meant. I did appreciate your concern for his personal career and found it a good gesture from your side.

Saifee has apparently crossed the limit which is unbearable, but your very post was also devoid of any ethical backing. My friend there is no harm in accepting our own mistake as well. When people ask me about mine, I only request them to provide the reference and if I found something like that personal I either give its explanation to satisfy the other or I apologies for it.

However, if you want to report, go ahead, no body is stopping you.

You feel this title is not unethical because you are living within a nation who could not at its own found what was the actual meaning of throwing those shoes towards Bush. The nation who don't find a problem in naming their kids as "Dog" and so on. I can understand that ethics could have different perspective for different people and areas at a same time. I am sorry for telling you anything about ethics.



- SAIFEE - 01-22-2009

Hello Every body!
Dear kamran
Yaar kamran mai nay mroneflower ko ek mohawera likha tha agar app nay para ho tu..
Oss mohawera ka oss nay ghalat replay kiya mujay tu newton third law ofmotion k motabik
every action there is a reaction.
But I really very very sorry aur kamran app kay kehnay par mai apnay posts delete kar diye.
Ba bye

- kamranACA - 01-22-2009

I think those posts have been deleted.

Thanks admin.

- kamranACA - 01-22-2009

Thanks Saifee!!!

This apologies, is really appreciated. At least by me. I hope you will take care in future and will not apply Newton's law where it is not expedient. Stay here as well. Please

Khalid, things are coming to a resolvable end, I feel. Please accept his apologies and give a note of confirmation.

Is it ok?



- rabia-k - 01-22-2009

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />Dear Toronto_Boy and rabia

Rabia Toronto_Boy gave definition of "globally recognized qualification”. As far as ACCA is concerned it is allowed to carry out audit work of PLCs in 80 countries of the world. As far as canda is concerned members of ACCA, ICAEW, ICAS and so on cannot call them self accountant unless they become member of CICA or CGA Canda. In USA no accountancy qualification is recognised, only ICAI(Irealnd) has MRA with CPA(USA) but still ACA from ICAI(Ireland) have to pass conversion exams in USA to become qualified accountant in USA. ICAEW, ICAS, ACCA and other qualification are not recognised in USA. ACCA had MRA with CAP(Taxes) but ACCA canceled in in 1999(i am not sure about yr).

In any case ICAP is not recognised anywhere outside pakistan. I know you are talking about GAA. GAA does not provide any benefits to its members. CPA(USA) is member of GAA but does not recognises any other institute which are member of GAA apart from ICAI(Ireland) so what thepoint of forming GAA. GAA was formed by ICAEW after it failed to merge with CIPFA and CIMA.

That is why I have been saying in Europe Accountancy bodies are working towards forming a single qualification or make accountancy qualification like Actuary. Remember Actuary from one country is competely recignised in an other.

Its right CFA is only qualification which is accepted every where in the world. The reason for this is CFA does not have any direct competitor at present.

Rabia what is your understanding of global qualification. Can you please explain


my understanding of ACCA as a gloabl qualification is exactly the same as ures and toronto boy's. but by some posts i became doubtful. anyways thank again for clearing the doubts.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

- kamranACA - 01-22-2009


I don't want to go at length once again. Some one rightly said we are repeating same words. You know what I asked and you know no reply has come for that.



- rabia-k - 01-22-2009

dear mr kamran

the words globally recognised means this to me

"The closest meaning to “globally recognized qualification” could be qualification that is generally acceptable in 80 countries for accounting jobs in public accounting and industry
As far as ACCA is concerned it is allowed to carry out audit work of PLCs in 80 countries of the world." as said by toronto boy and khalid.

for me this definition is more than enough for me and for many other students like me here. i have no interest to go into details.


- yaya khan - 01-22-2009

To All professionals...

Please a bit cool...

well! i dont know what most of you will think... i am putting a simple comparision to all of you so that no one should be confused by just news....i mean what is practically happeninig around the world...

one of our friend who is from Saudi Arabia must know that E&Y is the biggest in the middle east..
Agreed!!! i think you should agree...

All you friends dont rely on any one in the forum...just ask any of your friend in E&Y middle east..what number of CAs(indian or paki) are there and what number of ACCA,s are there..

Regarding Qualification... ask the buddy from UK, man who was your teacher..... ACCA or CA?

I am workingn in a CPA firm Kuwait... i pray for all those who work abroad....the miserable life we live here as second category nationals.. my friend from uk must know it better then me...

Take qualification which suits you in you home country...

At the end of the day it is a respect for outsiders...

I hope all those young kids who are looking for a good qualification to earn respectable living ,still living with their beloved ones... go for your local qualification...dont go gloabal...

In the end i would appreciate if some one comeup with a study of Asia...not the world as most of us would not like to live in antarktica... regarding how many professionals are working in asia and what qualification they have....

- rabia-k - 01-23-2009

dear mr yaya khan ,

i dont know for how long have u been living in the middle east. i have 2 of my school mates who are acca'affiliates and working in E&Y here in UAE. and they r not the only i am sure.

for pakistani students like me and several thousand others, who are born and brought up outside pakistan in UAE, (i will not talk of other middle east countries) we have not much choice when it comes to choosing professional accounting qualifications. the onlly ones by far in UAE are ACCA, ICAEW was launched just last august, CIMA was launched last year june. there r not many tuition providers here either for these qualifications. there is no institution offering ICAP ca, atleast i havent seen any institute offering tuitions for ICAP ca here, there is no ICAP uae chapter unlike the indian CA chapter. the indian CA tuitions and exams r being held here regularly at the ICAI dubai chapter . obviously a pakistani student wont go for india ca.
cpa courses are also being held here, but to sit for exams one has to travel to US, which is impossible for many.

many cant go back to pakistan and study there.
acca's get jobs here in big 4's /mid tier firms and industry as well . a good friend of mine is a senior consultant in KPMG and is an ACCA. please try to understand as an ACCA you will get employed in BIG 4's as well as other accountancy firms.

<b>for u E&Y is the biggest in middle east. what about PWC/KPMG/DELOITTEE???? </b>

<b>what number of CAs(indian or paki) are there and what number of ACCA,s are there..</b>
if u talk in numbers..then talk of all qualifications qualification doesnt dominate the entire middleeast market.

also compare no. ofACCA'S vs no. of CA of ICAEW what about CPA'S???

also compare No of CA's of ICAP vs CA'S of ICAI(indian CA) then.

i did like to say that ,i have a huge family in uk(<b>if that is what u mean by abroad )</b>, who r not leading a miserable life. i dont know y u say miserable??? dont say every one is leading a miserable life in UK, as many are not
<b>we also know the kind of life majority of the poor pakistanis in pakistan are living, pray for them also then. </b>

true u should take up a quailification that suits ure home country,but if there is more than one qualification being taught at institutions, in ur home country, then its up to the individual to decide which one to pursue.

but what if u r not living in ure home country?? what if u are living with ure beloved ones in the middle east???
what if u intend to emigrate to the west??? then which qualification should one pursue??? global or local?? please let me know.

honestly even if u have been living in the middle east for all ure life, u will still feel like a stranger. expats living here for more than 35 yrs still have to look for a visa after every 3 yrs. the difference here is the arab and non arab more than anything else.