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ICAP humiliating itself - Printable Version

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- kamranACA - 01-24-2009


Property trading race has almost sinked the Dubai's economy. UAE market is worst at the moment for the professionals. So be careful when deciding for a move.

Kahlid, misguiding, if done by some one, should be corrected by other forum members. At the end of the day decision is of the one who takes it and as such responsibility also falls on his/her shoulders. We cannot stop any one to post his ideas so far such posts don't cross the forum rules regardless of whether or not those ideas match our conclusions. Every one takes the things with different perspective. Difference of opinions has to be always there. The thing is one should avoid getting personal.

I don't know, by the way, where did the answer appear regarding my query. Will you help please Khalid? I don't want to repeat my question, but if you need it for clarity, I can do so on a specific request.



- rabia-k - 01-24-2009

mr kamran i have heard this from a lot of many peple, if could you please take some time and explain a bit regarding the market being worst for the professionals.


- Pracs - 01-24-2009

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />And Northern Ireland is part of UK. ICAI(Ireland) is Northern Ireland qualification, Plz check

ICAI(Ireland) is member of CCAB(UK). Just to clear the point.

ICAI is also member of CCAB Ireland group. ICAI calls itself UK and Irealnd based qualification. check it with ICAI. The link you provided also shows ICAI office address in Belfast. Belfast is in Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland in part of UK.

Click on link below and read para number 2, you will find ICAI is Irish and UK based qualification.Please do not misguide people.


For another proof that ICAI is Ireland and UK based qualification click on link below and find out CCAB and CCAB-1.


I do not know why ICAP members are doing so.

Finally in UK no one says ICAEW is superior brand. It only ICAP claim in Pakistan.

Pracs are you saying there is more supply of accountant in Pakistan where there are only 4000 ICAP members, 3000 ICMA members and only 700 ACCA members. I do not know on what ground u made this claim that demand of accountant is less than supply.

I think ICAP members think that less in number is good.

and what do u mean by Pakistani based ACCA all ACCA are equal.


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Khalid I stand corrected, ICAI is in NI and RoI, so there you go. Although personally most people that I have met from Northern Ireland were ICAEW, so my claim.

Pakistan based ACCA, is some one who is working in the Pakistani market (and probably trained there as well). ACCA (I meant some one who's trained and working in UK). There is no difference in the qualifications or status. My distinction comes so because a Pakistani ACCA will have better understanding and first hand knowledge of the Pakistani market. Likewise, an ACCA will have a better understanding and knowledge of the UK market.

7,700 qualified accountants, well atleast 1,000 ICAP members are overseas, then you need to deduct another couple of hundred for dual members given this for a population of 170 million is not much at all. But so is the state of our economy and official economy (almost half of our economy is unrecorded, untaxed etc.)So there are lesser opportunities in terms of CA's getting only premium positions. For instance, when I started my CA Foundation, it was not unheard of for ACAs to get job offers even before they time qualified ! by the time I qualified, not the case any more. As time goes on, ACAs (and other qualified accountants) will be performing at levels which was taken up by part qualified accountants only. Getting my drift, ofcourse as the Economy documents and we have more corporate businesses coming in, there are going to be more avenues and openings.

- Pracs - 01-24-2009

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Goodman,

Dear brother if you are having a look on this thread, please take care of Kebabs you have offered to Mr. Paracha. Such grouses are raising question on your QULFI offer as well.

Just kidding.


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I must admit I am at fault as well, the last time we tried getting together did not work out. I would say Goodman is good for a Kulfi any day, although I think these days he's not been on the forum

- Pracs - 01-24-2009

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Pracs,

Thank you for taking up the invitation so sincerely. I am a Pakistani and all the cities of Pakistan are mine. I am too much into travelling as well, more specifically for professional reasons. Wherever you will be staying, you can find me there. Currently I am stationed at Karachi. During first week, or so, of February 2009, I would be on visit of Bahrain and UAE for almost 9-10 days. Just to inform you the schedule.

It was nothing to mention about the people like Pracs and goodman when I referred you something. I know your point of view and believe every qualification is good with certain exceptions and certain limitations. We (at my office) do have ACCA students and we don't make any difference when opportunities are given. The debate starts when some one portrays wrong information without an acceptable logic. It's my fault that I cannot accept illogical things. I agree in essence with your conclusion of personal capabilities which eventually pay off.

No one can take the burden of some other's ill behaviour. However, here a CA student tried it (although it was little bit other person's fault as well) and I tried to make the things better. He eventually proved to be good at heart and offered his apologies. Things came on right track. I am also thankful to Khalid for accepting his explanation and apologies. The persons you have referred have left the forum I guess, but, I still miss them. At least they were source of a continued activity on the forum which we are missing now-a-days.


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Well, I go to Lahore for holidays, and with so little days its usually difficult to travel, but if my some chance fate We are in the same city will definitely meet.

Actually I was referring to Ali Akbar & Co. they had a similar issue of Big 4 ranking. This latest stint, I missed, because it had been deleted when I logged on,. but I guess all is well now that it is deleted.

You will see people think I am anti ACCA now, earlier on they thought I was anti ICAP. All I try to do is be as objective as possible. Both ACCA and ICAP have made me what I am today.

- mroneflower - 01-25-2009

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />what kind of doubt you have Rabia.

Top firms in UK are working under the banner of ICAEW or ICAS. If you check PWC web site it say Authorised to carry on audit work and investment business by ICAEW, They even do not mention ICAS, same is the case with E&Y but E&Y does not train its students for ICAEW examination its train its students for ICAS and ACCA, so is it mean ICAS is also not good.

ACCAs are partners in TOP firms in UK. I do not know why are you in doubt. Just go to UK top 50 firms web site and check its partners qualifications.

I already expalined to be partner in UK based firm one does not need to be Qualified Accountant.

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Dear Kamran

this is the answer of your question regarding big firms. If it is not acceptable by you, please do advise.


- mroneflower - 01-25-2009

Dear Rabia

My undersatnding says, there is slump in property everyewhere, cause in past interest rates were too high and banks gave too many Mortgage (loans) to buy houses. Poeple bought house at very high prices by taking loans from banks at very high rate. As banks management exceeds their targets therefore banks gave them very high bounses.

Y prices of property were high in past, i think it something to do with 9/11 as after 9/11 people invested heavily in property.

After sometimes people were not able to pay mortgages (installments) to bank, therefore bank ran out of cash. As people and bank ran to out cash therefore no one was buying property as a result interests rate and property prices came down.

I think situation will be like this (slump in property and resultant slump in everything) for another one yrs. Therefore professional are having problems in find jobs and keeping their jobs.

If you want to know things in details, I will advise you to read ACCA SA, as there are articles there.


Thanks for your post.

Most of firm in Northern Ireland operates under ICAI. I personally met a Dutch lady she worked in South Aferica for 1.5 yrs of her training, but was register with ICAS and gave ICAS exam. I will not be surprised that if i see someone working in London(in a firm which is not even register with ICAI), but preparing for ICAI exams. It happens as most of firms have connections with other firms operating in different areas. I hope you will agree. My point was to just correct that ICAI is also UK based qualification.

If 7,700 qualified accountants are too much for Pakistan then we should pray for Pakistani Economy. I am by no means oppsoing your this analysis.

In Pakistan there is no Capital Gain tax. Remember CGT is always paid by rich people. I do not know what going on there.

Once again thanks for your post.


- mroneflower - 01-25-2009


Anyone on this forum knows the legal Status of ICPAP in pakistan. ICPAP claims its applied for audit recohnition in Pakistan.

ICPAP was formed in 1992 and launched CPA programme in 1994. It has 250 members. This information is given by ICPAP on its web site. I seriouly think that 18 yrs (as it introduced it squalification in 1994) is not long period.

It takes time to get audit recognition. However, I am not sure about ICPAP legal status. I cannnot say that it is fake or real institute as it was only established in 1992. Someone need to check it with FBR or Govt of Pakistan about ICPAP legal status. I am not in position to say whetaher is fake or real.

ICPAP web site is Remembers its members are CFA and one needs to be graduate to register with ICPAP.

According to IFAC web site ICPAP is not its member.


- Pracs - 01-25-2009

Rabia your analysis is correct re ICAEW, although firms like E&Y train ICAS and ACCA (have discontinued ICAEW) They are regulated by ICAEW and therefore follow its rules and regulations. My understanding is ICAI and ICAS members have no problem in registering with ICAEW (if the need is, although not sure completely how that works)

- rabia-k - 01-26-2009

mr pracs its mr khalid's analysis not mine. i am too junior to make such ana analysis. anyways thanks for the information.

- kamranACA - 01-26-2009

Dear Khalid,

You know it was not the answer to my question and yes I can see the posts on this thread at my own. Had it been the answer, you would have never been mentioning the references of those two firms. You know what I am saying.

I agreed that ACCA people are working in firms even the bigger ones and the firms might have started intaking ACCA students with preference. Even we, at Pakistan, intake ACCAs. However, this does not cover the area which I asked in my question. It has been well debated and I wonder if you need a fresh post on it.



- kamranACA - 01-26-2009


You have been replied by Pracs and Khalid. Do you need some further info?

By the way can you comment on the current situation of rush on the roads at UAE as compared to last year. If you analyse it critically you will find hell of difference.

I am not confirmed but I last day heard some 100,000 people have lost their jobs and eventually have left UAE during the currency of this crises. Tell us if there is any such news.



- kamranACA - 01-26-2009


I know Goodman is so good not only for a Qulfi but on all fronts. I wonder why he is not around. I am pleased to know that you are in touch.

I would love to see such a nice buddy like you. Do inform me when you visit. Now onwards, there stands an offer of lunch and/or dinner at some awesome location.

I know you discussed Ali Akber and Co.



- rabia-k - 01-27-2009

mr kamran the current traffic situation

1. if u r working an dliving in dubai (a very lucky person)then it is not that much of a problem, better still live close to ure office or at walking distace.

2. if u work in dubai an dlive in sharjah, then expect to spend 1/2 ure life travelling on road. expect complete madness on the roads/bottleneck jams in the mornings. for example my brother works in dubai, the place is a less than 1/2 hour drive from our place (we live in sharjah) but it takes him more than 2 hours to reach work + another 2 to 3 hrs while comming back, sometimes even more.
often it feels stuck motionless in a traffic moving in inches. situation gets worst when schools open .even though the DUBAI government has introduced SALIK, road tax , still nothing has improved. ofcourse finding a place to park is another kind of hell.

job cuts are mostly in the construction and real estate sectors. hotels have also cut jobs but not to a greater extent. i havent read of 100 000 jobs being cut. what we have read in the newspapers here is that Nakheel has cut 500 jobs and Damac has cut 200 jobs. these are very large developers in dubai.

its mostly families who are leaving this country (in 1000's ) after the "one villa one family " drive.

- Schuaeb - 01-30-2009

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Pracs</i>
<br />Hello Schuaib, So I see you have finally joined in. I must say it is rather amusing along with a little sad. My two cents, I see the pro ACCA group (Khalid and Rabia) reflect a lack of experience and lack of perhaps first hand knowledge of the Pakistani market.
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Dear Pracs,

Thanks for your compliments. The extent to which your point remained uncleared (at least to me) gives me the margin for that.

I don't think any joined this discussion thoroughly. Some arguments have to be sometimes replied in their own way. I think similar topics on this forum had much more frequently been discussed than the deserved to be. So their is no point in continuing the gibberish and futile stuff. More importantly the subject of the thread!!!!. Anyways always good to see you around.

Kamran sb, the current situation in Pakistani market is not very promising as well. To the extent I have heard moving to middle east at this time is never a choice.