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+--- Thread: ICAP humiliating itself (/showthread.php?tid=5249)
- kamranACA - 01-31-2009
Is not it turning out to be a chat Khalid?
I wonder if calling a professional institute "lier", whose president is on board of IFAC, does not bring discredit to the name of ACCA.
Kamran.
- mroneflower - 01-31-2009
ICAP senior officer suppsoed to be FCA and i he is providing wrong inforamtion to ACA(you) then what its means.
Khalid
- Schuaeb - 02-01-2009
Dear Khalid,
Apart from all this what is being discussed here (as I consider discussions based on faulty and incomplete knowledge of things are mere time waste)
I am feeling a bit of difficulty in pronouncing your name "mroneflower". Due to my desi sort of accent I always come up with MORON and sometimes MOURN. None of these I reckon suitably describes you (however, some people may have contradicting opinion and some like me prefers to remain diplomatic). I would love if you be considerate enough to explain the things.
No hard feelings. Being members of different institutes and having different ideas never means that people can't be friends.
- mroneflower - 02-01-2009
Its not me who have faulty and incomplete knowledge, Its ICAP. so update ICAP. do not worry about ACCA we are aware what going on in world.
If you think someone knowledge is incomplete and faulty then mentioned it. Back your claims.
Its ICAP which is craeting different classes of member within one institute. ICAP need to update.
So when ICAP people cannot compete with others then they start changing people names, Is it ICAP normal policy. Keep on making yourself fool.
Khalid
- mroneflower - 02-01-2009
Kamran
Even Gahana CA people are on IFAC board. What special if ICAP president is on IFAC board.
ICAP and its policies based on lies.
I asked what are the requirements to get ICAP audit Certificate.
Khalid
- kamranACA - 02-02-2009
Dear Khalid
Did any body say Ghana's institute (if any) is lier? You can do it probably because this does not bring discredit to you. Go ahead.
This is not called ICAP audit certificate, rather it is "Practice Certificate" and is given to ICAP's members either they are ACAs or FCAs. However, an ACA having lesser than 3 years experience is not authorized to train CA students in his own name. There are certain conceptual differences between having a practice certificate and getting registered as a training organization. It may be known to you that being in profession it takes 5 years to an ACA to become FCA.
In Pakistan such certificates are given by ICAP and not by some ministry or other govt department. Every ICAP member was previously given such practice certificate, if applied for in prescribed manner, and if there was nothing discreditable. The requirements for documentation little bit vary for partnership concerns and sole proprietorships. However, now ICAP council is going to impose certain conditions of having audit experience in latest previous jobs for getting such certificate. (I have some reservations with this decision though and there is certainly some basis for having these reservations).
There are other ethical requirements for practicing members which are as per IFAC's code and pronouncements. After giving such certificate, ICAP keeps on monitoring the audit work performed by its members through Quality Assurance Board. Quality control reviews are thoroughly conducted after certain intervals. There are very strict documentation, internal control, and performance conditions and rules. ISQC1 has been fully adopted by ICAP and is applicable from current year. All firms are bound to prepare their audit, policies and practices manuals in the spirit provided by ISQC1 and ethical and professional requirements of ISAs. All such policies and procedures will also be subject to review by quality assurance people of ICAP. These inter-alia provide for internal controls and quality assurance systems, delegation / performance and review methodologies, explicitly defined roles and responsibilities, identification of quality reviewer and others for continuous evaluation and updation of documentation, and procedures etc .
Newly formed firms have to undergo the quality control reviews by ICAP before getting authorization to audit the listed entities. Prior to that, they can only get into small sized engagements. Every year the firms' compliance checklists are filled, evaluated by ICAP and rated accordingly.
However, there was no separate testing or exam to get a practice certificate.
There is a long list of all requirements which are mandatory and without which the firms cannot continue the practice. Whenever any firm loses its ratings as a result of quality review, it cannot audit the listed companies unless it gets a fresh review and re-attain the rating. You can study all such regulations from ICAP's website. This is not so simple to get a certificate and start the practice if we talk in ICAP's perspective. I hope the situation would be similar with other such institutes as well.
The above is the brief of only a few aspects. There are so many other requirements as training organization or practicing firm which one may have to know specifically. Therefore, if you need to know something specific, please let me know.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
- mroneflower - 02-02-2009
Dear Kamran
Now you decide is it joke that everyone who become ICAP member is given audit/practicing rights in Pakistan. There are no extra requirements. Now I can see why in Pakistan auditors cannot detect fraud and errors. Remember audits are taking care of poeple money so are doing very important job. Its means if ICAEW member become ICAP member then ICAP will issue him audit/practicing rights, but on other hands he will not even be eligible to sit ICAEW audit exam. Anyway its Great ICAP.
By the way in Pakistan ACA cannot become FCA after 5 yrs experience. ICAP web site says
<b>Eligibility For Fellowship</b>
Practice as an Associate for five years; or
Non-Practicing Associate for 10 years
Such rules do not exist anywhere in world at least not in UK. Again ICAP following class system. GREAT.
Khalid
- kamranACA - 02-02-2009
Dear,
I don't know whether or not this ACA or FCA rule exists in UK or other locations. Other people can comment on it. I look forward to Pracs if he knows something.
Did you notice, I mentioned
"It may be known to you that being in profession it takes 5 years to an ACA to become FCA."
So, being in profession, stands for 'being in practice' although it is not a legal term. We here largely use this term for practice. I wonder you advise me on this area. It's amazing.
Every country has its rules and procedures. I know you don't have ability to understand the differences of legislature. Don't pressurize your mind on these issues since these are not yours. I wonder if Enron or Stayam were Pakistan based scandals. Can you tell me utility of those audit tests keeping this in view? You always make wrong conclusions from procedural things. What a wastage of time is it to make you to understand something.
Your words about Pakistan depict your frustration. I can't help you. However, I understand your problem and you know I do understand it.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
- mroneflower - 02-03-2009
so you r saying ACAs who are not working in audit firms are not working in profession. what kinds of terms ICAP has.
Khalid
- Pracs - 02-03-2009
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mroneflower</i>
<br />so you r saying ACAs who are not working in audit firms are not working in profession. what kinds of terms ICAP has.
Khalid
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Khalid, you are really impossible, problem is you are trying to compare some thing (ICAP-Pakistani accountancy profession)(you have no first hand knowledge about) with some thing else (ACCA in Pakistan) whilst you work here in UK ! Does it not bother you trying to debate on things you are not familiar with ?. I mean how lame is it picking on what term ICAP uses for some one being in practice, buddy that's what we say, what's it with you?
Btw hope you enjoyed your snow day !!
- mroneflower - 02-03-2009
so these stupid terms are concept are introduced by ICAP and ICAP still beleive its the best.
Khalid
- kamranACA - 02-03-2009
Dear,
I must repeat a very comonly known phrase in urdu. I know Khlid cant read roman written urdu.
"CHORE BHI KAHEY CHORE CHORE".
Is not it strange when Khalid calls some one stupid? Just a question from others and not from Khalid so no offence.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
- rabia-k - 02-03-2009
mr prcas i came to know that after doing ACCA u took exemptions from ICAP. did u feel/experience any difference (for example salary wise,) since u had not studied with ICAP from module A. are acca's who decide to go on to ICAP ca treated like other CA's who have studied right from module a??
- kamranACA - 02-04-2009
Masud,
You may be right in your conclusions since these are not Pakistan based. I apperciate if some one feels that he does not need to have more than one qualification. However, if some one is doing it for qualitative reasons or personal ambition or interest it is also not a taboo.
I welcome you on the forum and it's good that you are planning to visit the motherland.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
- Pracs - 02-05-2009
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rabia-k</i>
<br />mr prcas i came to know that after doing ACCA u took exemptions from ICAP. did u feel/experience any difference (for example salary wise,) since u had not studied with ICAP from module A. are acca's who decide to go on to ICAP ca treated like other CA's who have studied right from module a??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The answer is no, there was no discrimination whatsoever. However I must clarify that I was an ICAP student all along (so did ICAP foundation). I took up my first job with a Big4 accountancy firm in Dubai and was paid a little more than what they would paid a Pakistani CA