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ICAP humiliating itself - Printable Version

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- mhmirza - 01-01-2009

Mr. Khalid

Please tell me what is wrong with you.

- kamranACA - 01-01-2009

Dear Khalid

Yes one can see who started CA / ACCA discussion when in your very first post, while criticizing ICAP, you said

“ICAP did the same thing in ACCA case. When ACCA was first introduced in 1995 in Pakistan. ICAP gave exemption of 13 papers out of 16 papers to ACCA Affiliate (please note that I used word ACCA Affiliate and not ACCA members secondly ICAP had total of 16 papers in 1995). When ICAP saw that ACCA is capturing Pakistani Market ICAP reduced exemption to ACCA Affiliate. So what its mean ICAP just makes policies without collecting any information”

What an illusion you have buddy. You speak and forgot. It proves that you have some memory loss problems. I advise you to have a diary and keep on writing notes on it so that these may work if you lose memory after some short while.

Do you have some issues with ICEAW? Did you ever see any ICAP member shouting, grousing on ICEAW or any other designation for the reason of lesser exemptions or reduced recognition? Is there any problem in seeing this fact? Try to understand it and you will come to know who is more satisfied with his qualification and who is insecure. At least CAs are not bound to leave Pakistan merely for earning the livelihood. What an insecurity it is that one has to leave his place for getting the returns. I agree that world is not limited to the cities Kamran or Khalid live in, but it's a fact that for every one world starts (at least starts) from the city he lives in. I can foresee that you will also not understand this fact. Recognition of some designation in Ghana, Turkey, North America, Canada and what not and what not carries no benefits for a person at his own personal level unless and until he has a plan to move to some other place. Is there any?

Getting more than one qualification (specially diversified ones) is a thing bigger than your apprehension. Don't pressurize the mind over its capacity. I told you I know what CFA is, so, don't talk about the things you don't understand especially if you have not worked for any CA firm. How will you come to know what a professional firm is and what expertise it may require?

The things you talked about the failure and the endeavor you made to give various names to a specific situation shows that you cannot differentiate the “failures” and “strugglers”. I concluded it before giving you a test because I knew how deep you can think. Go back to my post to confirm. Yes, I had already written that you may not necessarily be a failure.

I don't hope for anything mature and better from you. Let's see your next comedy session.



- mroneflower - 01-01-2009

ICAP cannot say anything against ICAEW as you are afraid of ICAEW, even ICAI(India) can raise its voice against ICAEW when ICAEW hits other interests, but ICAP cannot. There is no disagrement on it ICAP is afarid if ICAEW, SIMPLE. If we take Kamran definition of failure ICAEW (ICAP yarkstick) is also failure as CIMA refused to merge with ICAEW. Come out of box man.

Use your energies in promting ICAP instead of doing negative propaganda against others. Keep on collecting qualification. My question is still there what audit firm has to do with CFA.People who are satisfied with their own qualification do not say they are planning to take other qualifications. At least ACCA do not need other face (passport) to prove to world that it is recognised. If you think I never worked in CA firm, keep on thinking.

In my first post I said I do not want to prove ACCA is better than ICAP, if someone thinks ICAP is better keep on thinking. At least learn something from your Master i.e ICAEW who is selling its qualification to CCAB members without signing any MRA with them.

It looks he is more interesting in protecting ICAEW than ICAP, GOOD, Clam down man and do something constructive for your institute.

Kamran I am sick of you now. Purpose of my posts was to tell people terms and condition of MOU between ICAEW and ICAP which I have done.


- mroneflower - 01-02-2009


Nothing wrong with you. You said in two years time there will be more ACCA than B.COM. I just answered you.


- mroneflower - 01-02-2009

Dear Students

I have information for all those students who are interested in ICAEW. The information is all those who are over 25 yrs and have 7 yrs experience in accountancy field are also eligible to register with ICAEW as a Mature students. These Mature students do not need any qualification to register with ICAEW.

If anyone is interested in Mature student entry route of ICAEW, plz let me know and I will give ring to ICAEW to have more information about this route.

For conformation click on link below, and see <b>First Schedule Entry Routes </b> which is on page 21 of this document and then check bottom of page 23 with sub-heading <b>Mature Entrants</b>. Please note this document is not marked with page numbers so you need to check page number on Adobe Reader. and I think training contarct for this route is 3 years, however I will confirm tomorrow with ICAEW and post details here.


Please remember students can take and pass ICAEW 14 out of 15 papers by studying full time i.e without starting articleship and its also apply to ICAEW mature students. ICAEW does not take any PPT or admission test even ICAEW does not Mature students take any PPT or Admission test.

Best of luck to all those who will decide to go for ICAEW in Pakistan. May Allah help you in becomming ICAEW member.


- kamranACA - 01-02-2009

Dear Khalid,

You are not sick of me, rather, you are sick for other reasons. I assessed it quite earlier.

If you have worked for some professional firm and you don't know what CAs, CFAs, actuaries, management acountants, corporate secretaries, chartered secretaries, I.T. specialists, programme developers, ERP specialists, system analysts, tax specialists and people having lot more such qualifications do in such firms, then how can I help you. You probably need some doctor buddy.

Did you ever heard of transaction advisory business which encompass the major portfolio of business of every good firm? Do you know what it is? Do you know which people work in such departments apart from CAs? What a man you are?

Yes, for being a partner at CA firm at Pakistan, it is necessary to be a qualified CA having such license. Firms have people having diversified knowledge and relating to diversified areas of profesional fields. So for being at my position I need not to go for any other qualification. If your eyes and mind are not shuttered down you may understand that going for some other qualification in my position does not reflect the reasons which you had been or have been facing in your life.

As far as CFA is concerned, I believe that the knowledge attributed to this qualification will enhance the understanding on areas which are beyond the scope of accounting specialization. This is not for the sake of returns merely. This will be part of my inquisitiveness in acquisition of knwoledge and is related to some future planning which is totally my personal and has nothing to do with professional life or the position I currently hold. However, this is not aimed at to add up something in monetary terms to my current position. Mind it, I am not an ACCA. Further, I will do it when I will have some time to justify. I am not desparate like you guys to run for other qualification to improve the returns. I hope you cannot understand. I don't know for which firm you had worked for and which sort of work they delegated to you. Off course work is elegated keeping in view the level of understanding and capabilities. It is a practical approach.



- Shahbaz - 01-03-2009

" If anyone is interested in Mature student entry route of ICAEW, plz let me know and I will give ring to ICAEW to have more information about this route. "

So, do we also need to submit a letter of acknowledgment from our nearest "pagal khana" to claim that we are MATURE STUDENTS. S

- mroneflower - 01-03-2009

Dear Shahbaz

I gave the reference, is it habit of Pakistani people to abuse others. If you r not interested in ICAEW, it does not mean other are also not interested.


- dreamsunlimited - 01-03-2009

Mr. Khalid I guess u r living in fool's paradise. In trying to defend ur ACCA, u seem to disregard every other qualification. My friend I guess you do have some misconceptions about the status of ACCA. What's the status of ACCA in UK, a second rated qualification, nothing more than that... now don't quote that stupid example that for every job, the requirement states ACA/ACCA etc., tell me how many of the ACCAs works as partners of Big four firms. Mind it don't mention the street shops of ACCAs auditing beauty saloons and filing their tax returns. just adding UK with a qualification doesn't mean, it is reputable. Market is the best assessor....u gotta be joking dear, u claim to produce auditors, Finance Managers (by keeping Advanced auditing and SFM as optional....Good Job...Can't it be possible to distribute the certificates for free....

- mroneflower - 01-03-2009

Thanks for your comments. If you think so, keep thinking.I do not have any problem with it. i am sure you have been to UK many times that is why you know everything.

You call small firms shop. Its new thing for me. It also new for me to know that beauty saloons require audit. Thanks for increasing my knowledge.

Why dont you advise 80 those countries to withdraw ACCA right of Audit. Remember more than half of these countries are much more advance than Pakistan like singapore, Malaysia, Australia, Canada, EU, advise them as they are doing wrong thing. By the way in how many countries ICAP is recognised, I would love to know.


- faizee - 01-04-2009

ICAP is a member of the International Federation of Accountants (IFAC), International Accounting Standards Board (IASB), Confederation of Asian & Pacific Accountants (CAPA), International Innovation Network (IIN) and South Asian Federation of Accountants (SAFA).

i think k in boards ka jo member hoga usay boht kam hi countries honge jo recognised nahi karain..

- kamranACA - 01-04-2009

Dear Faizee and Dreamsunlimited

There is a basic point to understand that the auditors, public practice license holders etc have to be locally chartered. This happens every where in the world. However, there are certain countries which don't have such qualified people locally or arrangements to produce such people locally, therefore, they are bound to welcome whoever comes there. Further, in so many other locations certain international bodies are recognised.

ACCA might be a good qualification at UK/Ireland or even at certain other locations. There is no point to fight or argue on it. However, wherever any local body is established on strong footings this ACCA could not capture the market regardless of whether or not they carry such licenses or permissions to compete.

One has to see both sides to make the conclusions. You are right a few ACCA firms (or may be none) would be famous enough to compete all the big names the CA institutes have so far produced at UK or eslewhere. There may be certain partners in recognised firms having other than CA qualification including ACCA or CPA and they may be doing very well because doing well depends upon so many factors. Still, the point raised is valid that the profession has always been in the hands of CAs if we talk about the quality of the clientle portfolio.

ACCA firms may be earning quite handsome as well. The practicing ACCAs can tell if they have beauty saloons and shops in their portfolio. I cannot comment on it with certainity.



- mroneflower - 01-04-2009

I am saying it again I am not interested in proving ACCA is better than ICAP, If ICAP thinks its better than please keep on thinking.

faizee and Dreamsunlimited are supposely be ICAP students and doing articles.One of them is suggesting that <b>International Federation of Accountants (IFAC), International Accounting Standards Board (IASB), Confederation of Asian & Pacific Accountants (CAPA), International Innovation Network (IIN) and South Asian Federation of Accountants (SAFA)</b> have authorised ICAP members to do audit.

Second one is suggesting beaury Salon requires Audit. Third one is suggestiong CPA are not equal CA. In many countries accountants are know as CPA. In USA accountant are know CPA, in Japan Accountant are know as CPA, in Singapore accountant are know as CPA, in Malaysia accountant are know as CPA. In China accountant are know as CPA, in Hong Kong Accountant are known as CPA. Remember Hong Kong CPA are directly admitted to ICAEW (ICAP yardstick) membership without any exam. In New Zealnd accountant used to be know as Society Accountant before 1995 and New Zealnad Accountant used to be (and still) admitted to ICAEW membership without any exams even when they used to be know as society Accountant.

I think Pakistani accountant like the word Chartered, that is why they replaced word Registered by Chartered (Pakistani accountant used to be know as Registered Accountant). That is why I say ICAP and its members need to come out of box.

I am really not able to answer ICAP members and students questions. Its nice to see caliber of ICAP members and students.

My question is still there in how many countries ICAP is recognised, I would love to know.

I think I am wasting my time in discussing with these people who do not have any knowledge.


- kamranACA - 01-04-2009


You are not able to answer so much and you always ignore the aspects where you feel your disability.

Faizee no where said that ICAP is authorized for audit. He talked about membership of ICAP with such bodies and said that in his view there would be fewer who will not recognize ICAP. This recognition certainly has different meaning. This does not necessarily mean that other countries should start allowing ICAP members to be in public practice within their boundries. If a country recognizes the other, it does not mean it will allow the other's cabinet to take control of its affairs. Now what can one do with your caliber buddy?

He could be a student and being a student does not abstain him to write a post on the forum. If you feel so, you better please contact the admin of this forum.

We know ICAP is a locally chartered body and is meant for Pakistan. Its certain qualified people are working world over with same qualification or after getting other qualifications as well. I know a few ICAP members working at UK who having only this qualification are drawing much better than what an ACCA can even think about. You know what is the starting pay for an ACCA at UK these days?

I know you cannot get to the point that public practice regulators have to be locally founded. This is beyond your understanding I guess. To make you realise this fact I use to say that just check where this ACCA has any strength as public practice license holder when compared to local charterholders or CAs. Keep on living in your illusions dear. What a good idea, we are recognized everywhere, but respected no where as the leaders. Mashallah!!!

Yes, I know you said you are sick of me.



- mroneflower - 01-04-2009

this man really like to prove to world that ICAP is the best. If ICAP is the best then ICAP does not need to prove it, everyone should know it. If you think ICAP are in better place than ACCA in UK, keep on thinking I have no problem at all. You said ICAP is a locally chartered body and is meant for Pakistan means ICAP is only recognsied in Pakistan, it is what I wanted to hear, Thanks.

You said ICAP members with only ICAP qualification is working abroad, I would like to know how many ICAP members having only CA from ICAP are working abroad, what jobs they are doing and what are their salaries.

ICAP memebr with other foreign qualification working abroad have not got jobs because of ICAP membership, these people got jobs cause they got other qualification. its is something like putting picture on someone else passport and ICAP is expert on this. ICAP standing in the word has been showm by terms of MOU between ICAEW and ICAP.

As far ACCA members are concerned one check at what positions ACCA members are working, for example Dell Canada last CFO was ACCA, Bank of Ireland has ACCA finance directors and CFO, in Shell ACCAs are working in good positions. One could check on ACCA web site.

I know ICAP people like word chartered. Once again I do not have any problem If ICAP thinks it is better than others, nor I want to prove ACCA is better than ICAP.