ICAP humiliating itself - Printable Version

ICAP humiliating itself - Printable Version

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- Pracs - 01-06-2009

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mroneflower
 Dear dreamsunlimited

Thanks for your link and document. Anyway last diagram say Public practice overseas members 13. So Only ICAP 13 members are working in Public practice (doing Audit) overseas. I think these ICAP 13 members also hold other qualifications means putting picture on someone else passport.

Only 13 ICAP members are in Public Practice (overseas) and there is no information at what position they are working. Even in Pakistan there are only 616 ICAP members in Public Practice.

Non-practicing overseas ICAP members are 857 there is no information what jobs they are doing. They might be accounts clerk, who knows.

Obviously 13 is big number for ICAP.

Khalid

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Buddy a majority of ICAP members working overseas are only Pakistani CAs and do not hold another membership. And 'practising' means 'running an audit firm' or 'a partner in an audit firm', don't just jump to conclusions. There are hundreds of Pakistani CAs working in Audit firms in the Middleast, UK, US, Canada and Australia among other places.

You are beginning to loose your stride, be objective, you are now opposing for the sake of opposing I would suggest to stop at a high note, than on a low one.

- Pracs - 01-06-2009

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mroneflower
 Dear Readers

One can make arguments in many ways, but the botton line is ICAP does not have any standing in the world. Only ICAP members are persuading everyone about the quality of ICAP members while degarding institutes with strong voice internationally and no one is listening ICAP. ICAP members used to say ICAP is better than ICAI(India) and time have proven otherwise. I do not know why ICAP and its members fooling themseleves. In reality no one cares about ICAP in world. ICAP sign MOU with ICAEW in March-April 2008 while ICAI(India) waited untill ICAEW signed MOU with ICAI(India) on its conditions. It means ICAI(India) was not keen in signing MOU with ICAEW as ICAP was.

Its also nice to see that ICAP members started saying MOU does not means quality of one institute members is lower than others but it is something to do with politics, however ICAP has been doing politics. If MOU is nothing to do with quality of ICAP members then why ICAP signed this MOU with ICAEW which states ICAP members are inferiors to others.Remember no one forced ICAP to sign this MOU. Actually by sigining this MOU, ICAP has admitted its members are inferior in quality and ICAP has no standing in the world. POOR ICAP.

One can understand what will be value of institute (ICAP) that has only 13 members working in public practice outside Pakistan. Remember these 13 people are not working in practice outseide Pakistan because they are ICAP members. They are working oversaes cause they are member of other institutes.

I hope time will come when ICAP will open its eyes and see reality. I can just pray.

Anyway it is ICAP members calim, ICapian unparallel without any standing in the world.

Khalid
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Khalid sorry to say this but this particular post is devoid of facts, logic or for that matter an argument at all. Chill out buddy.. Hosla kar

- rabia-k - 01-06-2009

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mroneflower
 Dear rabia-k

Thanks for your post and thanks for adding more benefit of ICAEW. I have been told that ICAP is not allowing ICAEW to conduct ICAEW professional stage examinations in Pakistan, although I have not checked with ICAEW yet.

I am aware of GAA. GAA was formed after ICAEW failed to merge with CIPFA and CIMA. Secondly want to know what tangible benefits GAA will bring. Could you kindly expalin.

One more thing CPA(USA) is part of GAA and CPA(USA) does not have MRA with any of other institute that are member of GAA, apart from ICAI(Ireland), if i am not wrong. In any case ICAP is not member of GAA.

CPA(Aus) has MRA with CPA(USA) but is not part of GAA.

What are you studying or are you member of any institute.

Khalid
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Hi khalid i am doing ACCA and will then go on to ICAEW inshallah... i just posed this GAA thing so as to show that joing ICAEW will only bring benefits and more benefits , no matter which part of the world you are in .
i dont understand this war going on ICAP vs ICAEW and ICAP vs ACCA... its very confusing especially for students like me doing ACCA and then reading all this rubbish about ACCA from some dudes on this forum...
and please people dont compare ICAP and ICAEW .. take it like this ok...icaew is a 125 yr old institution ...cant compare it with a 48 yr old institution
there is no denying that ICAEW is much much much much much much much better than ICAP and its members have great career opportunities where ever they are and ofcourse there is no doubt that ACCA is a globally recognised qualification and greatly in demand people who are denying it are just unable to face the truth so stop spitting venom about ACCA

and what is this following the west rubbish ...when we can follow western technology.... we can migrate to western countries we can buy military technology from them .. then why not education , in particular "WESTERN CA"...what's the harm??? most of the books recommended in ICAP'S reading lists are by western authors too [p]

- mroneflower - 01-07-2009

Dear rabia-k

This post is also for those who wants to know about ACCA marvellous history.

Its nice to know that females are doing ACCA in Pakistan. Female members and students have been very important part of ACCA and they helped ACCA to achieve milestones which other institutes have yet to achieve. ACCA some of the milestones are as follow.

1)ACCA was formed on 30 November 1904.
2)By 1910 ACCA exams where available outside UK.
3)ACCA was the first professional accountancy body in UK which opened it door for women when Mrs Ethel Ayres Purdie was admitted to ACCA membership on 13 May 1909 so she became the first woman registered tax auditor and was recognised in USA as well. Remember ICAEW refused to admit women to its memberships in 1890s.
4)By 1930 ACCA had 56 women members as compared to ICAEW women members of just 23.
5)ACCA became the first accountancy body in UK which examined tax 1917 followed by cost accounting in 1919.
6)Ms di Palma became first female ACCA president in 1980, thus ACCA became first accountancy body in UK with female president.
7)1993 ACCA became first UK professional body with female chief executive.
8)1n 1996 ACCA became first UK accountancy body that introduced international accounting standard in its examinations.
9)ACCA is also first UK accountancy body which introduced computer based examination, ICAEW followed ACCA.
10)Current ACCA president and chief executive, both are females.
11)ACCA has more female members and student as compared to other UK based accountancy bodies.
12)A forecast says ACCA will become biggest accountancy body in Europe, in terms of membership, by 2010 with almost half of female members i.e take over ICAEW.
13)ACCA is the only accountancy body in the world that has exams in different laws and tax.
14)ACCA is the only accountancy body in the world that has exams in different accounting streams.
15)ACCA is the only accountancy body in the world which is competing in 160 countries.
16)ACCA is recognised in 80 countries of the world.
17) ACCA 100,000th member is female.

Itâs a brief history of ACCA for detail history of ACCA please click on the link below.

http//www.accaglobal.com/documents/100_years.pdf

ACCA is very proud of its history as it have achieved many milestones which other bodies have not including ICAEW.

I would love to know if any other accountancy body achieved so many milestones as ACCA had.

Khalid

- rabia-k - 01-07-2009

HI MR KHALID, THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION, THERE ARE MANY, MANY, MANY WOMEN DOING ACCA IN THE MIDDLE-EAST . PARTICULARLY IN UAE , OMAN AND BAHRAIN I AM NOT SURE OF PAK...PERSONALLY 3 OF MY FEMALE FRIENDS ARE ACCA AFFILIATES AND MEMBERS ARE HOLDING SENIOR PORSITIONS IN BIG 4 FIRMS HERE IN UAE MASHALLAH ....FOLLOWING IN THEIR FOOT STEPS I DECIDED TO JOIN ACCA

- mroneflower - 01-08-2009

Dear rabia-k

You mentioned that you want to do ACA from ICAEW after ACCA. Can I ask if you ultimate goal is ICAEW then y r u doing ACCA first.Y you have not gone for ICAEW straight away.

Moreover if ICAEW is someone yardstick, ACCA with 5 yrs experience gets ICAEW membership straightaway without passing ICAEW any exam.

Dear Readers

Its an eye opening facts for all Pakistani that ACCA are working in top positions in gulf in big 4 firms, where ICAP members are not. Simple.

Khalid

- rabia-k - 01-08-2009

i will go for ICAEW simply because now its become an ego problem for me.... my cousin is doing CA from ICAP...and he thinks that no other CA comes near to it ... NOT EVEN ICAEW... he has some
weird ICAP UNPARALLELD ideology so to prove him false i am going to do it...even though i dont want to.... but i cant wait for 5 yrs to prove him wrong (we had a big fight over it)
both of us will be going abroad (migrating) then i will show him the value of ICAP as compared with ICAEW....
my ultimate goal is ACCA.. and there is no doubt that ACCA's are well placed in the big 4 in UAE.. i dont know about CA'S from ICAP but my personal friend who's a CA from ICAI (INDIA) is also holding a senior position in a mid tier firm here in uae..
i think in the middleast every one is welcome...acca's also get jobs as SENIOR AUDITORS here in uae

there is no doubt that ACCA'S are well placed in BIG 4 ... i dont know y some people in this forum think the opposite,...

- mroneflower - 01-09-2009

Dear rabia-k

I never faced such a problem which you are facing as I studied all of my ACCA exams in London and in UK ACCA and ICAEW are equal.You may not know but in EU institutes are working towards a single qualification and there is very high chance that in comming yrs there will be one main accountancy institutes in EU, but this thing will take time.

I will advise all ACCA students whenever you talk to ICAP people talk with facts and figures and mentioned terms of MOU [in reference ti ICAI(India)] which ICAP signed with ICAEW to show ICAP its standing in world.

As far as your cousin is concerned ask him to read this thread from the begining and he will know standing to ICAP in the world. No one needs to prove ICAP wrong, time is proving ICAP wrong.

I do not know about ICAP,but ACCA is much more than just auditing. May be ICAP members are just Auditors in Pakistan.

I spoke to ICAEW yesterday and they say there is very high chance
that ICAEW will conduct its professional stage examiantions in Pakistan. If it will happen then you will see ICAP psoition. Anyway in Middle east ICAEW full programme is avaialble and you can start ICAEW from the start in Middle East.

Dear ICAEW students.

I confirmed with ICAEW that Someone who is over 25 yrs old with 7 yrs accountancy experience is eligible to register with ICAEW as a mature student. Mature student does not need any qualification.

Mature students require 3 yrs of training (articleship). it is comfirmed by ICAEW.

Khalid

- rabia-k - 01-10-2009

i am not speaking against ICAP but i am not speaking for it either..but yes i am going for ICAEW to show some people that you shouldnt try to degrade other accountancy bodies and think only ICAP is the best and ofcourse i am also going to benefit from doing it too ...the words ICAEW will bring more charm to my CV and ..besides it my personal matter .what is bothering you mr Ali ... it my matter ..Khalid asked me y i wanted to do ICAEW after ACCA so i told him the reason ....what problem do u have with it...if he hadn't asked i wouldnt have told him.... i dont think its revengei dont know what made u jump on to an indian soap drama...dont paki saops have such things... just accept it one cant compare ICAP with ICAEW and if one cant accept it then one's just fooling him/her self

there cant be such thing as ICAP vs ICAEW or even ICAI vs ICAEW
try comapring ICAEW vs CPA ...

if some one is senior poster on this forum doesn tmean he has a right to take cheap pot shots at other qualifications in particular ACCA. its demoralising for acca students to hear such rubbish about ACCA like ACCA students idolising and looking up to ICAP members... maybe some students might do such thing but not all ok ... if u ali found hatered in khalid bhai's posts then even i have found hatred
in ure "respected" senior's posts in particular ACCA .. and some ICAP student or member even went on to say that ACCA'S audit beauty saloon's ...what a disgusting and cheap thought about ACCA

- mroneflower - 01-11-2009

Dear Readers and Ali_87

I do not have any personal problem with anyone including you and Kamran. But to assess any institute calibre one has do its through the institute members. And If I pointed out contradiction in one âs two statements it does not means I have something against him.

For coming back to Ali post, first he mentioned that he is totally layman as far as accountancy is concerned, later he mentioned that he is ACCA students. Therefore his two statements are conflicting with each other. I leave it upto Ali to decide whether he is layman as far as accountancy is concerned or is he doing ACCA. I think my this statement answer all of Ali questions. Ali other questions could be ignored on the ground that his one statement conflicts with other and he i smisleading others, but I will still reply to his post.

No one hates ICAP, its ICAP members who force others to hate ICAP, for example Kamran used words like failures, struggler etc many times for other qualified people. These words shows ICAP members hatred towards others and unwillingness to accept others (although no one cares about ICAP in the world).

Moreover, in an other post Kamran went on saying that ACCA who qualified abroad are better than ACCA who qualified in Pakistan (I can give reference if you wish). This statement clearly means itâs a game of retaining prestige in Pakistan by ICAP and its members. I have also seen job advertisement in Pakistan clearly stating ACCA foreign qualified and ACCA Local qualified. Even ACCA does not make such distinction.

You also suggested that as we are Pakistani therefore we should defend ICAP in all circumstance. I am sorry but I do not agree with you, If ICAP has drawback (ICAP has many drawbacks for sure) we should mentioned it. Your strategy to protect and defend ICAP regardless of what ICAP does is not correct. I think because of this mentality of ICAP people ICAP signed MOU with ICAEW whose terms suggest ICAP is third class institute.

Mr Ali, if someone wants to improve, first condition is to listen to others and accept weaknesses which ICAP and its members are not willing to do. Why Indian defend ICAI (India) cause in India ICAI members does not use words like failure, struggler etc and they do respect other professionals. In India people do not say ACCA foreign qualified are better than ACCA local qualified. By the terms of MOU which ICAI (India) has singed with ICAEW showed ICAI(India) has better standing in the world as compared to ICAP, its reality, its upto you to accept it or reject it. Remember ICAEW is ICAP yardstick and not ACCA or mine.

I never defended ICAEW, its ICAP members like Kamran who said record number of times ICAEW is world number one institute for CA and much better than ICAP. Anyway its also debatable topic if ICAEW is world number 1 or not.

You mentioned ICAP members are not imported from outside and they are amongst us. Likewise ACCA members in Pakistan are not imported from outside and they are amongst us, but ICAP and its members use words like failure for them. You are suggesting ICAP people should be allowed to say whatever they want to say and others cannot say anything, INTERESTING.

ACCA vs ICAP issue was not raised by ACCA people it was raised by ICAP people, when time started proving ICAP wrong, ICAP people started using word patriotism. If someone is opposing ICAP it does not means person is against Pakistan. May be ICAP people think they represent Pakistan, Its up to ICAP people.

If Kamran is senior member of this forum, it does not mean we should say yes and agree with him whatever he says. His many statements are factually wrong and it is he who says ICAEW is better than ICAP.

You mentioned ICAP does not pay Kamran to promote ICAP, are you suggesting ACCA pay me to oppose ICAP, Interesting. Itâs a game to maintaining market share for ICAP members, but you will not understand.

You mentioned ICAP members have knowledge of local law and tax therefore they are and should be in better position. I have already answered this question. If knowledge of Local laws and tax law is important then why Pakistani courts allows people who do LLB, LLM, Bar at Law from UK to practice in Pakistan. Remember these people do not study Pakistani law and tax they do study Uk law and tax. Are you suggesting ICAP is better than courts. IF ICAP members are in better position then why they are opposing ACCA, they should simply ignore ACCA.

First you say its not worth to go for qualification which forces one to live abroad, then you say you are doing ACCA and working outside Pakistan. You are just giving that advise to other on which you cannot act. Its called hypocrisy.

Itâs a proven fact that ICAP does not have any standing outside Pakistan and only ICAP 13 members are working in practice abroad. If I accept this argument that these 13 people are partners in firm situated outside Pakistan, one has to accept that they are also member of other institutes as ICAP is only recognise in Pakistan, no other country recognise ICAP. It would mean ICAP people put their pictures on someone else passport. GOOD.

You said if you have chosen ACCA, it does not mean ACCA is good. It would mean you could not take right decision for yourself and you are advising others what to do. INTERESTING.

As far as rabia-k is concerned, I think you are jealous because being a female she can go for ICAEW and as being a man you cannot, its simple. I cannot oppose someone only because she is female. It could be ICAP policy but definitely not ACCA policy. ACCA is very pround that it is attracting record number of females who are ACCA strength.

rabia-k, mentioned that ICAEW should be compared with CPA(USA). ICAP does not recognize CAP(USA) cause CPA(USA) has only 4 papers, but ICAP fully recognize ICAA(Aus) which has 5 papers. Actually ICAP does not know what it is doing.

Last thing, I am not the person who started ACCA vs ICAP debate on this particular thread, I was forced to answer when ICAP people started this. I never said ICAEW is world number 1 institute, actually ICAP people said it.

Khalid

- rabia-k - 01-11-2009

OH MY !! OH DEAR !! i didnt know there was something called ACCA pakistan qualified and ACCA foreign qualified .

with due respect MR ALI ACCA is not an Israeli or indian accounting body either, then y this hatered?? y r certain ppl trying to stop students from joing ACCA??? trying to scare peopl efrom joing ACCA?
that certain members go around ACCA bashing. saying ridiculous nonsensethings as the STR being signed by "ANY TOM, DICK AND HARRY". & ACCAs auditing beauty saloonnssssss????
Cant believe ppl r so poisoned against ACCA in pakistan!

mr khalid your very true. " 50% of ACCA students are women" as said by Stephen Shields, Head, corporate Developmwent, ACCA Middle East. any 1 interested can read the following articles

https//www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20080825033500/Oman%20More%20women%20pursue%20careers%20in%20accountancy%20and%20finance/

http//www.accaglobal.com/allnews/publicinterest/2008/NEWSQ2/Features/3118178

http//www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093209339

ACCA is not an easy course, its easy for students like me who dont work &are studying full time. it becomes easy because we have an opportunit to do our internship after we have fiished our studies.

now for CPA i am not sure,CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG , CPA has 4 sections and each section is divided into papers. you require an accrediated 4 year degree and approximately 2 years of CPA supervised work (mostly auditing) that will be attested to by the supervising CPA to become a CPA.

- rabia-k - 01-11-2009

by the way can MR ALI please elaborate on what u said in ure post

"By the way you all will be surprised to know that I myself am an ACCA Professional Level Student (just sat P1,P2, and P3) But if I have chosen something, it doesn't mean it is right. "

its confusing? it sounds a sthough u r confused about ureself??? what is so surprising of u being a professional stage student???

- mroneflower - 01-11-2009

Firstly I will say that we should not say anything to those who say ACCA STR being signed by ANY TOM, DICK AND HARRY and ACCA auditing beauty saloon as these people are misguided by ICAP members or ICAP members do not know anthing about rest of world accountancy profession, whoes know.

Actually we should analysis what has happened to ACCA in Pakistan. ICAP and its members started negative propaganda against ACCA when ACCA just launched itself in Pakistan and when there was no ACCA members and affiliciate in Pakistan. Therefore students started listening to ICAP and its members. For almost 8 yrs there was no one is Pakistan who could educate people in Pakistan and explain what actually ACCA is.

ICAP people are still doing this. I know a person who has been in UK for 2 weeks and came here to study ACCA. This person told me that ACCA is certified accountant and is not Chartered body. When I asked him who told him so, he answered ICAP people. I think ICAP people do not know what ACCA stands for, ACCA standard for Association of Chartered Certified Accountant, so Chartered is part of ACCA name. Moreover Privy Council has allowed ACCA members to refer themselves as Chartered Accountant. It means if ACCA member calls himself Chartered Accountant in UK no one can sue him, remember title Chartered Accountant is protected in UK law. Outside UK ICAEW members will call themselves Chartered Accountant(Eng & Wales) where ACCA members can call themselves Chartered Accountant (UK). Despite this permission from privy council ACCA recommend its member to call themselves Chartered Certified Accountant to distinguish themselves from other bodies. I think I should explain to ICAP members history of word CHARTERED, as it seems they do not know origin of this word.

I also heard ICAP people saying ACCA is just an Association and not a major Chartered body. Word Association is protected by Law is UK and only those organisation can use it who have permission. Secondly by using word major Chartered body, one could think there must be non-major chartered bodies. I do not know difference between major and non-major chartered bodies, if anyone knows please do tell me. Actually the term non-major Chartered body does not exist anywhere in the world, this term is developed by ICAP members.

ICAP members are now facing problems in carrying out negative propaganda against ACCA as there are 700ACCA members and 1,100 affiliciate in Pakistan, that is why they have started using words Pakistani CA and patriotism. Actually ICAP people are trying to back mail others by using word patriotism. When there will be more qualified ACCA in Pakistani market ICAP will be in big trouble as ICAP members are habitual of carrying out negative propaganda when no one can oppose them (Remember ICAEW will be in Pakistani market soon).I have been told in 2003 it was difficult for ACCA affiliciate to get job in Pakistan cause there was very few ACCA in Market and because of ICAP and its members negative propaganda against ACCA. Now in every news papers especially English newspapers employer advertise jobs for ACCA.

In this modern world only those institutes will survive who will increase its membership while not compromising on quality and ACCA has been working on it. I do not know why ICAP does not realise legal backing cannot help it for long time in modern world. ICAP people actually do not trust their own qualification as they are going qualification after qualification.

I have already mentioned it and again mentioning it that ACCA launch itself in 1995 and by 2008 i.e after 13yrs in Pakistan ACCA has only 700 members and 1,100 affiliciate in Pakistan. I donât know in presence of above figures how ICAP people can say ACCA is easy qualification.

As far as CPA(USA) is concerned it is quite right that one need 4 yrs accounting accredited degree to register with CPA(USA) otherwise student cannot register with CPA(USA). Moreover CPA exams has to be passed within 18 months. If student cannot pass CPA(USA) exams in 18 months then person need to start again (I hope I am giving correct information). But the problem with ICAP is it does not give any weight to bachelors degree. God helps ICAP.

By the way ICAEW (ICAP yardstick) is struggling to get recognition in America and have MRA with CPA(USA).

Khalid

- Toronto_Boy - 01-12-2009

Dears

Basically, for CPA(USA) majority of States need 150 Credit Hours of accounting and business studies these days. Rules are changing rapidly, and only some of the States still have 120 Cr. Hr. requirement. Usually, 150 credit hours are beyond 4 yrs degree and are equivalent to masters degree requirement. In near future every State would have 150 Cr. Hr. requirement. 4 yrs degree is only one of the requirements. Also, the degree and courses should be recognized by the particular State.

I hope it helps.

Regards

- kamranACA - 01-12-2009

Dears,

I had been out of touch for some days due to personal pre-occupations.

There had been interesting discussion on the forum from Rabia and Khalid. As far as Ali's post is concerned I must request him not to discuss me at such a personal level on the forum.

Rabia, I am among the ones who have always been supporting the idea of increased number of females in the profession. I believe the economies need their contribution. This issue has been debated with another member of the forum Mr. Muhammad Amir, who is ACCA student and is a firm opponent of this idea. You, as depicted in your posts, are located at UAE and due to your residential status you are ignoring the back ground and context of the arguments I use to make when some body inquires about which stream of qualification he/she should go for.

UAE is a good place for ACCAs, this is not the first time we agree on it. For your clarity, I must mention that I don't have any personal grudge or issue with any other qualification or professional. Sometimes the posts require a reply which becomes essential to keep the things balanced. Further, I only say what I believe in and when advising some one I always keep myself beyond any prejudice. Notwithstanding this I am also a human being and as such I may not be perfect as well.

No qualification will lose its worth merely because I or some body else don't rate it as most preferable. Similarly, we cannot change the facts on ground regardless of whatever we attempt to do. ACCA is off course a good qualification. Why we differentiate the ACCAs at UK or Pakistan has so many reasons. I don't support the statement that ACCAs are engaged in audits of beauty saloons, still, it may not be as weird as it is being taken. I, however, feel that there are so many beauty saloons whose earning may be better than normal private limited companies. May we have some such saloons incorporated as private limited companies, although I am not confirmed?

If you need to know why ACCA is not better than ICAP at Pakistan (I said Pakistan), if you need to know why input quality of ACCA students is poor, if you need to know what legal status ACCA has in Pakistan, if you need to know why ACCA is so far a looser in Pakistanâs market and why it is so far dependent, if you need to know what is the difference between a Pakistani qualified ACCA and a UK qualified ACCA when considered for its market worth at UK, if you need to know the difference between strugglers and failures, and if you need to know answer to other such questions, then you must try to understand the conditions prevalent at Pakistan since my focal area of discussion is Pakistan.

Further, keep in mind that all recognized firms including Big 4 at UK are primarily CA firms. They are also CPAs in other countries. Such renowned firms mainly represent CA or CPA bodies at the originating place of such firms. They have ACCA partners as well. I donât want to undermine any oneâs position. The point to understand when talking on this facet is to find out how many firms having solely ACCA partners or proprietors (whose base is ACCA and not the CA or CPA) are there in competition. You need to understand it. This may be checked with reference to portfolio of clientele. The license or accreditation is very good but it cannot make some one the market leader. I said getting the test cap is very good but for having a good rating one has to perform better. Performance, professionally speaking, is evidenced by number of clients, business portfolio, assignments in hand, past experiences, revenues, number of staff members, number of firms and their offices and so on. These are not judged by number of countries in which a designation is given exemptions etc. How a designation performs in such authorizing countries is the measure of success.

Ali said, he is a layman to the things being discussed on the thread. Then he said that it may be surprising to know that he is ACCA student. Please donât mind it but I donât find a reason to criticize his statements. There is a way to perceive and understand the issues and statements. If some one does not have its ability he should not start beating about the bush. Being layman, to my understanding, meant that he does not know the ground realities of all the facts being discussed especially when he is not here in Pakistan and that he knows little about ICAP and Pakistani market. He may also be saying that he is at a junior level and he may not be in a position to comment professionally to the extent that he may be considered a contributor within specific context. Getting surprised to know him as ACCA student may be referring to his inclination of giving respect to his own country and ICAP when others, in his view, are not doing it.

Every oneâs stay outside Pakistan cannot be criticized in the context people normally do. Such residential status may also not impair oneâs patriotism or concerns for his own country. For example if some oneâs father is a diplomat working in some foreign office, he may not be able to live at Pakistan without his family. However, every one may have different approach towards life. Here we are discussing living out of the country only for the limitation caused by a specific qualification. Other personal matters should not be discussed in my view.

I donât comment on Rabiaâs issue with some cousin probably, because itâs totally her personal matter. Yes I appreciate that she agreed to expect good returns after doing CA from ICEAW.

Khalid, keep on trying your level best. For you itâs enough that I am here for further two years Inshallah to put some critical questions for you. If you will check my presence here you will note this presence for a similar tenure in the past as well. So many like you made such claims. Letâs see what you will say after two years. I hope you would be professional enough to reply such queries. Letâs see what happens on or after 31 December 2010 i.e. your couple of years. Now please donât hide behind the statements that this discussion is not started by you.

Best regards,

KAMRAN.