helpp - Printable Version

helpp - Printable Version

+- Accountancy Forum (https://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum)
+-- Forum: The Profession (https://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Career (https://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=12)
+--- Thread: helpp (/showthread.php?tid=532)

Pages: 1 2

helpp - xtrovert - 12-31-2003

i am planning for a career in actuarial sciences and i need all the help i can get. lets start with names of the institutes offering courses and if there is some book or newsletter available to help me out to find out more. if yes how can i get one.
thanks

- zaidi_ali_hasan - 12-31-2003

hi xtrovert;

i think doing acturial in pakistan or u can say trying to do acturial in pakistan is just like doing suicide... i myself wanted to do acturial but counldn't keep up with my decision because thr isnt any institute for it in pakistan ... and the books r to costly and hardly available......

and u know it is quite difficult..... but let me help u ....
state life is offering acturial .... they helpu in preparing for its exams... they will provide u with books and some assisitance....
but u r a bit late because thr addmissions are over.....

but u can still find some one doing acturial from thr.. and u can seek help frm him ....

best of luck .......

aliz

- sonu - 12-31-2003

A-O-A
I agree with Zaidy. I was also interested in Actuarial career. I struggled very hard to enter in this field. But there was no institutions in Pakistan. Getting information about actuarial sciences was also very difficult.
i have some contacts of actuarial firms i think these contacts can help you.

Sidat Hyder Morshed
Progressive Plaza, 6th Floor, Beaumont Road
Karachi-75530.
Telephone (92-21) 569 3521-30
Fax (92-21) 568 5625
E-Mail shma.khi@pk.ey.com

Mr. Abdul Rahim Wahab, FSA
Abdul.Rahim@pk.ey.com
Sidat hyder Morshed Associates

Omer Morshed
omer.morshed@pk.ey.com

State Life
Rizwan Ali Tasadduq
Honourary Secretary, Pakistan Society Of Actuaries
Ph 92-21-920 2824
tasadduq@cyber.net.pk

Fahad Rehman Shah
Deputy Manager State life Actuarial Division
Phone 920 2800-9 Ext 3386
Email fhdrshah@hotmail.com

Nauman Associates
http//www.naumanassociates.com
HEAD OFFICE
7-B, Block F, Gulberg-II, Lahore, Pakistan.
Telephone (+92) 42, 5760204, 5753381, 5754036
Fax (+92) 42 5757867
KARACHI OFFICE
211 Central Hotel Building, Mereweather Road,
Civil Lines Quarters, Karachi, Pakistan.
Telephone (+92) 21 5217157, 5682494
Fax (+92) 21 5682494
E-Mail info@naumanassociates.com
nauman02@lhr.comsats.net.pk

A.K Hassan (Akhter & Hassan Pvt Limited
www.akhasan.com
Email akhasan@attglobal.net
Phone +(92-21) 241 1084
242 5714

ADAMJEE INSURANCE COMPANY LIMITED
Head Office
Sixth Floor, Adamjee House
I. I. Chundrigar Road
Karachi 74000
Pakistan

Telephone (021) 241 2623

EFU
Internel Actuarial department is working in EFU life insurance Karachi but i don't know the address of EFU Life Karachi.

Edited by - sonu on Dec 31 2003 23017 PM

- sumaaan - 01-01-2004

There you go... You have the list of places you should visit... Kindly explain what kind of information you require so that users may help accordingly.

- xtrovert - 01-03-2004

thank you, all of you
i am not starting until this august so i think ill catch admissions.
i am also looking at international institutes.
one more question.do we have to start actuaries from the undergrad level or can we take any maths subjects and then go for a masters?

- derivativetrader - 01-03-2004

Xtrovert, certainly you can do graduation in any discipline, always preferred quantitative subject though, but if you get lucky in getting admission into a BSc Actuarial Science programme, that would definitely be an ideal.

For instance, firstly, you would get the flair of the subject and secondly, if you progress up to the standards of the Institute of Actuaries UK/USA, you could get exemptions from up to 60% of the exams of the Institute of Actuaries.

So, relating to your question, yes you can always start training for actuarial qualifications after your bachelors.

With regards to institutes in foreign countries, the London School of Economics and City University are two good universities that offer bachelor programmes in actuarial sciences in the UK. For further information, please visit www.lse.ac.uk & www.city.ac.uk

AHSAN

- xtrovert - 01-04-2004

thanks a lot ahsan,
about the UK/USA standards, how do i achieve that , i mean can i do that from here in pakistan or can it only be done by studying in the respective countries themselves?

- sumaaan - 01-04-2004

Yes you can appear for examinations of Institute of Actuaries (UK) and Society of Actuaries (USA) both from Pakistan...

The universities offer a bachelors and a masters programme... Whereas the normal modular course can be pursued from Pakistan.

Edited by - sumaaan on Jan 04 2004 32506 PM

- derivativetrader - 01-04-2004

Xtrovert, I appreciate that my information found helpful to you. Regarding the question that how would you actually qualify as an Actuary with UK/USA standards, as Sumaaan also said, that you could appear for the either examinations from the Pakistan. I think State Life Corporation, in Pakistan, does support its trainees for attaining the standards, but I have also came to know that such support is very nominal, and to increase the chances of success, the trainees do occasionally need outside private tuition. Having said that, I would stress that you confirm the above statements, as I have also heard them and therefore, cannot assure you for their legitimacy.

I am sorry that I did not get your question quite right, as to whether you was asking for how can you qualify as an Actuary or whether how could you train to be one, from Pakistan.

I assume that how wanted to know how to qualify as an Actuary,

Itâs quite simple, arguably (my argument would be valid for the UK and not to sure about US & Pakistan)

You can enter the profession after your intermediate, graduation in any quantitative discipline or indeed after graduating with actuarial science bachelors.

If you enter with actuarial science degree, depending upon the recognition of institution to the Institute / Society, you could get exemptions from the 60% of the examinations, again dependable to the academic performance, on roughly speaking, you would need to get about 65% or more. But trust me, to get 65% is itself quite remarkable achievement.

One of the pre-requisites for the profession is your analytical, numerical and detail-oriented mind ability.

So, after your graduation with actuarial science degree, you start working for either actuarial consultancy or company. Again, depending upon the nature of the business of your selected company, you could go ahead and qualify as Insurance, Pension, Investment or

So, again depending upon your abilities and/or credentials, you could qualify in about 4-6 years. However, if you donât get any exemptions, then it may take you about 7-9 years.

And on final note, however, it is not a requirement to be graduate to enter the profession, certainly true for Institute of Actuaries, but keeping in view the competition out there in the markets, I would strongly advice you to consider doing graduation at least.

You DONOT need to be master degree holder for the UK, I think unquestionably untrue for Pakistan, because sometimes if you do masters, here in the UK, it has virtually the similar importance as of the bachelors. Also, the opportunity cost factor is also quite material. In addition, if you do masters in Actuarial Science, that WOULD NOT get you any exemption at all, however, a diploma from the CITY UNIVERSITY LONDON, may help you qualify up to 80%.

AHSAN

- xtrovert - 01-09-2004

thnxx ppl
i just want to know if we also get any exemptions by doing a double major in maths and economics?or does it have to be in actuarial only?

- sumaaan - 01-09-2004

I'll explain things in very simple language so that people who don't have much knowledge don't have a problem...

To actually be called an Actuary, one should complete all the 'modular courses' of either Society of Actuaries (USA) or Institute of Actuaries (UK)... By modular I mean that these courses are like ACCA's course, you can choose whenever you want to appear in the exams, or you can skip the current attempt and appear for the exams in the next available session... Initial courses are held twice a year, but the last few courses are held only once a year... The classes for these courses are not conducted 'through' universities or colleges, instead just like ACCA, you can choose whenever to appear for the exam and just register for it... In Pakistan, there are no 'official' tuition providers for these modular courses... Students study themselves or at times get tuitions for particular part of subjects like statistics from a stats teacher...

There are also bachelors and masters courses for Actuarial Sciences, namely BSc. in Actuarial Sciences and MSc. in Actuarial Sciences... The bachelors takes minimum three years... These courses are offered through universities... However, in Pakistan, only at the moment Karachi University offers it and has just recently started it... Others have announced that they're starting it soon too, but no official date has been given... Outside Pakistan, there are a lot of universities that offer BSc. and MSc. in Actuarial Sciences, some have been named by Derivativetrader... As explained by DerivativeTrader, the value of BSc. in UK, etc. is quite good but in Pakistan until you don't have a masters degree, you 'educationally' don't stand anywhere, you 'professionally' might.

By doing the BSc. or MSc. in Actuarial Sciences, one CANNOT call himself/herself an Actuary... You get approx 60% exemptions from the 'modular exams' after you have completed the BSc... So once you have passed all the 'modular exams', either by the BSc. route or the direct one, you become an Actuary.

Its not mandatory for students of Actuarial Sciences to get work experience, but one should get as much work experience as a trainee as he/she can... Work experience counts a lot.

I hope that answers all the questions... It would be great if Mr.Ahsan comments on my post, coz if I'm not mistaken, he himself is studying BSc. in Actuarial Sciences from LSE.

- derivativetrader - 01-09-2004

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
thnxx ppl
i just want to know if we also get any exemptions by doing a double major in maths and economics?or does it have to be in actuarial only?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I am fairly certain that having a mathematics degree alone does not offer you any exemptions from the Institute of Actuaries (UK), however, if your degree helps you to learn the elementary micro and macro economic theory, then you may get exemption from one of the 100 Series exam, depending upon your success in economics modules. Usually, as I am confident that I have said it before, you are expected to get around 65% marks, in order to apply for any exemption from the Institute of Actuaries.

So, synthesising the above, certainly you will not get any exemption if your degree does not involve elementary microeconomics AND macroeconomics topics AND you need to pass those modules by over 65% marks as well, if your degree does involve courses in above.

For further information or clarification, please donât hesitate to post a query.

AHSAN

- derivativetrader - 01-09-2004

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I'll explain things in very simple language so that people who don't have much knowledge don't have a problem...

To actually be called an Actuary, one should complete all the 'modular courses' of either Society of Actuaries (USA) or Institute of Actuaries (UK)... By modular I mean that these courses are like ACCA's course, you can choose whenever you want to appear in the exams, or you can skip the current attempt and appear for the exams in the next available session... Initial courses are held twice a year, but the last few courses are held only once a year... The classes for these courses are not conducted 'through' universities or colleges, instead just like ACCA, you can choose whenever to appear for the exam and just register for it... In Pakistan, there are no 'official' tuition providers for these modular courses... Students study themselves or at times get tuitions for particular part of subjects like statistics from a stats teacher...

There are also bachelors and masters courses for Actuarial Sciences, namely BSc. in Actuarial Sciences and MSc. in Actuarial Sciences... The bachelors takes minimum three years... These courses are offered through universities... However, in Pakistan, only at the moment Karachi University offers it and has just recently started it... Others have announced that they're starting it soon too, but no official date has been given... Outside Pakistan, there are a lot of universities that offer BSc. and MSc. in Actuarial Sciences, some have been named by Derivativetrader... As explained by DerivativeTrader, the value of BSc. in UK, etc. is quite good but in Pakistan until you don't have a masters degree, you 'educationally' don't stand anywhere, you 'professionally' might.

By doing the BSc. or MSc. in Actuarial Sciences, one CANNOT call himself/herself an Actuary... You get approx 60% exemptions from the 'modular exams' after you have completed the BSc... So once you have passed all the 'modular exams', either by the BSc. route or the direct one, you become an Actuary.

Its not mandatory for students of Actuarial Sciences to get work experience, but one should get as much work experience as a trainee as he/she can... Work experience counts a lot.

I hope that answers all the questions... It would be great if Mr.Ahsan comments on my post, coz if I'm not mistaken, he himself is studying BSc. in Actuarial Sciences from LSE.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Itâs correct that I am studying for a bachelors programme in Actuarial Science at the London School of Economics, as held quite appropriately by Sumaaan. Also, I support the comments and issues raised by the writer about the qualifications and the entry routes for the Actuarial Profession.

However, I have few issues regarding the insight provided by the Sumaaan to address as well.

Firstly, that not all masters programmes in actuarial science lead to get exemptions from the Institute of Actuaries. The prime example is the MSc. Actuarial Science offered by the City University London. This MSc. only provide exemption from the first 9 exams, which apparently a BSc Actuarial Science offers as well, and so realistically speaking for an actuarial professional, this MSc is basically the waste of time, if the objective for such person was totally gaining the exemptions from the Institute. However, a programme called MSc Actuarial Management does provide exemptions from up to 3 / 4 further modules, and consequently by completing the degree successfully, a graduate could get qualified up to the 80% level.
Having said that, MSc in Actuarial Science offered by the Kent University does offer exemptions up to the same level as the MSc Actuarial Management from City University. So, itâs definitely not true that all MSc Actuarial Science programmes offer exemptions, as can be proved fairly easily.

Secondly, I am also quite sure that in order to become a fully qualified actuary, a Fellow of the Faculty or Institute (FFA, FIA), you must pass all of the professional examinations and complete 3 years practical work experience, within an actuarial field (Institute only).
So, as I get the impression from the post by Sumaaan, that you donât need work experience for the actuarial status, therefore, I thought I must rectify the error.

As regard rest of the post is concerned, I appreciate the spot on knowledge of Sumaaan.

AHSAN

- sumaaan - 01-10-2004

Yeah I agree with Ahsan... No one actually ever goes on to do MSc. in Actuarial Sciences because it hardly offers more exemptions than the BSc. in Actuarial Sciences... Only people who decide to teach Actuarial Sciences are the ones who do MSc.

Thanks for correcting me... I too will confirm the 'three year' work experience requirement.

- Jiya - 01-26-2004

Hi to all

I was just going thru a interesting discussion on the career in Actuarial sciences, just need to know that do u need to be employed some where like financial or insurance company in order to register in the either SOA or IOA or u can directly register and write exams on your own. I have heard that your employer contacts the examining body for u and he pays the fees and stuff. Is this rite? and one more thing a person qualified or in process of getting qualification from SOA can work in a different country system like IOA , i mean the transfer and acceptability of the standards in the corporate enviornment.