worth of C.A inter - Printable Version

worth of C.A inter - Printable Version

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- Dard - 02-04-2010

Having more than one qualification is always great, provided they are inter-related
Having a CIA qualification with ACCA, CA or other accountancy qualifications is a good path in my opinion and it does add value to your CV and professional and technical development. When you search for a job, it is the CV/resume that represents you infront of a potential employer. So add as much as you can to it Relevant Skills, Qualifications etc etc

- sumairalam - 02-05-2010

Dear Rafay321,

Although Schuaeb has replied against this post and your next post seems more logical , for readers i need to clarify some points in respect of middle east market

"CA inter is not a qualifcation first of all"

I strongly object this remarks,CA inter is a qualification , all passed intermediate received certificate from ICAP , the names of the passed students appeared in official Gazette of Pakistan.

Middle East especially UAE accepts this qualification and those having this qualification eligible to apply for Labour approval.[ for those who don't know the procedure please note that in UAE employers must first get Labour approval before applying employment visa. Ministry of Labour , has provided job titles ( codes) against which application can submit . They provided minimum qualification requirement for each job codes . Under finance /accounts they required graduation.]

"Outside Pak CA-Inter is nothing and normally those who work as CA-inters are hired because of their years of experience only. They are called qualified by experience."


In any Country , if someone is hired from outside ( from another country) he is hired on the basis of experience only,i have never seen any company who hired outsiders only on the basis of qualification.

Within the degree awarding country , the situation always different , employers may hire someone for apprenticeship / training etc.

Further especially in UAE employers always go with experienced person. Experience person especially article ship completed candidate easily fit in the new environment because of his exposure with different environment during article-ship. In Middle-East generally they are hiring from outside the country. They will spend hefty amount of sum on visas / permissions . And all this for non-experienced person will not make sense.

They may hire workforce only because of certificate/ degree but 99% those employees are local(national) hired by local( owned by nationals) companies.

Situation may different in Firms but till they also consider some experience.

"I work in EY in middle east and earn 15k being ACCA affiliate and 2 years experience. A CA inter having 13 years of experience gets 10k. Hope this clear things. Even a bachelor (4 yrs) in accounting here earns 18k after 3 years of experience. "

Again you mixed up two markets i.e firm and industry... I can understand that Firm may pay more to ACCA affiliate in Middle east than to CA intermediate .

But this statement that in middle east Industry , merely bachelors are earning more than CA intermediate in nothing but to laugh .
May be you have one or more unique examples but as an employer why I prefer graduate although he has some 2-3 years experience over CA intermediate who must have 3 years experience with exposures to many clients / types of accounts etc etc.

"Its better to get a 4 yrs bechelors degree from IBA or LUMS in business management/accounting/economics than this "CA-inter". You will be hired from the entry level position"

At one time you are saying CA intermediate is not qualification whereas in the same post you are comparing graduates of IBA and LUMS with CA-Intermediate.

In my whole life I never met / or heard about a single CA student who joined ICAP for doing CA- Intermediate only.

Still I believe that If some one plan his education good even he unable to pass final examination of ICAP has more opportunities than IBA/LUMS finance /accounts graduates.

He has MORE opportunities not in Pakistan but outside Pakistan whether its Middle-east / UK or Canada.

Best Regards

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rafay321
 CA inter is not a qualifcation first of all. If ICAP wants it can make CA-inter earn 100k Rs in Pakistan since its their playground and they are the mafia there.

Outside Pak CA-Inter is nothing and normally those who work as CA-inters are hired because of their years of experience only. They are called qualified by experience. In Pak i have seen both jobless and employed CA-inters. You will be offered 40k MAX based on your experience only. Now if you have 10 years of experience or 3 years of aricleship experience, both CA inters will not exceed above 40k in their career (if you call this a career in first place).

I work in EY in middle east and earn 15k being ACCA affiliate and 2 years experience. A CA inter having 13 years of experience gets 10k. Hope this clear things. Even a bachelor (4 yrs) in accounting here earns 18k after 3 years of experience.

10k is because he (Ca-Inter) has contacts otherwise his salary would not be more than 8k. Forget 8k he would not even have this job without his contacts. He is the ONLY CA-inter in this entire office, all service lines included.

Its better to get a 4 yrs bechelors degree from IBA or LUMS in business management/accounting/economics than this "CA-inter". You will be hired from the entry level position and earn 8k in middle east. In 3 years you will be AM atleast getting 18k.

You can also become a manager if you show the mangerial skills and get a foreign qualification and earn upto 25k+. CPA/CA/CFA/ACCA/CIA/CMA/CISA any one is required in order for you to become a manager in your respective service line.

In assurance CA/CPA/CFA/ACCA, BRS CIA/CFSA/CCSA/ACCA, TSRS(It audit) CISA, TAS CFA/ACCA/CPA/CA. That's how it goes. You need a foreign qualification if you want to work as manager in middle east. Please don't come up with lame arguments that a lot of CAs from Pak is working as managers and senior managers. I can bet they have all completed a foreign qualification. They just might have not told you about it because of the "ICAP-CA" pride and ego they hold back at home.

So this gives you clear picture.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

- Dard - 02-05-2010

You even get certificates on passing the fundamental module of ACCA. That doesn't mean it is a qualification
ACCA affiliate can't be compared to C.A inter, ACCA affiliate takes the lead in terms of knowledge. C.A inter student has yet to qualify all the exams which an ACCA has already qualified
C.A inter without professional experience is nothing as mentioned in above posts. A bachelors having the same professional experience as a C.A inter would be equivalent(ignoring other attributes)

- sumairalam - 02-06-2010

I was not comparing ACCA with CA intermediate.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dard
 You even get certificates on passing the fundamental module of ACCA. That doesn't mean it is a qualification
ACCA affiliate can't be compared to C.A inter, ACCA affiliate takes the lead in terms of knowledge. C.A inter student has yet to qualify all the exams which an ACCA has already qualified
C.A inter without professional experience is nothing as mentioned in above posts. A bachelors having the same professional experience as a C.A inter would be equivalent(ignoring other attributes)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

- shani420 - 02-06-2010

Dear Sumairalam
U said
(He has MORE opportunities not in Pakistan but outside in Middle-east/Uk Canada)
Yeh aap CA INTER k baray main keh rahe ho?
If yes than have u any example of a sole CA INTER without other qualification doing a high profile accounts job in UK or CANADA?
Middle east ki had tak to banda man bhi lay magar a sole CA INTER doing exceptionally well in WESTERN world ir hard to swallow!

- sumairalam - 02-07-2010

Opportunities do not mean only jobs.

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shani420
 Dear Sumairalam
U said
(He has MORE opportunities not in Pakistan but outside in Middle-east/Uk Canada)
Yeh aap CA INTER k baray main keh rahe ho?
If yes than have u any example of a sole CA INTER without other qualification doing a high profile accounts job in UK or CANADA?
Middle east ki had tak to banda man bhi lay magar a sole CA INTER doing exceptionally well in WESTERN world ir hard to swallow!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

- shahzykhan - 02-22-2010

Internationally CA, ACCA and MBA (From a recognized university) have almost the same recognition except the experience of job/article ship one has acquired adds to your position

CA Inter has no International recognition...I have not seen a single job advertisement listing CA Inter in it except in some CA firms....Its just a Pakistan based concept because of toughness of Pakistani CA...Internationally you eigther have a degree or not have a degree.

Now replying to the original topic, the salary range is 40K to 70K in Pakistan...Average is 55K...with exceptions depending upon your fate...

- Schuaeb - 02-22-2010

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shahzykhan
 
Now replying to the original topic, the salary range is 40K to 70K in Pakistan...Average is 55K...with exceptions depending upon your fate...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
For a CA Inter in Pakistan!! Quit optimistic your approach is!

- shahzykhan - 02-22-2010

Optimism or pessimism has nothing to do with facts....What i am telling you is a fact....I am just entering into job market and I am a CA Finalist....What i told you is the extract of what i have observed through my friends and immediate senoirs....

- Dard - 02-23-2010

A C.A inter without any relevant experience earning 45k/month? LoL

- Schuaeb - 02-23-2010

<blockquote id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shahzykhan
 Optimism or pessimism has nothing to do with facts....What i am telling you is a fact....I am just entering into job market and I am a CA Finalist....What i told you is the extract of what i have observed through my friends and immediate senoirs....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I regard your observation, however, I believe that its not showing the true picture. One thing you should know here that the question originally asked is for a CA Inter, CA finalist do have (though not very much) competitive advantage over the ones who are yet to qualify module E. 70 K for a CA Inter or even a finalist as a starting salary, you must be kidding. Even the average provided by you is quite on an higher side. Depending upon the nature of reference some people do get really competitive package but even that is not equivalent to the figures you have provided. I completed my training in the month of October last year and I do know at least 20 people from different firms who got job or are in search of job. Based on my experience and of the friends I referred to earlier I can say the salary range provided by you shows that you are not much aware of the circumstances.

- shahzykhan - 02-23-2010

For Mr. Dard

Yar note that we are talking about CA inter + Articleship completed

For Schuab

Yar I cant get why is it so surprising for you. Again I remind, the original topic is regarding CA Inter + Articleship. You said I am not awared of the circumstances, How could u say that when I told u that I am applying for the jobs and has given many interviews. I have even rejected a job because they were offering me just 40K. I dont know from which city u are. I am talking about Islamabad and I have done articles from one of Big Fours. There might be a low average in your city.

Its pretty logical man. I have been in CA for 6 yrs. If I dont get this much salary, an average MBA will be better off then. He must have an experience of about 2 years after his MBA completion. And might be getting a salary of 30k to 35k. But if u recall the past CAs normally get twice as MBAs.

And u know I have examples of my friends getting salary even higher than the range i mentioned. I didnt mention them because they were an exception. Wake up man, the lucky ones (e.g getting jobs in UN or USAID etc) get much higher than the range I mentioned.

- FARHAN123 - 03-01-2010

Hi,
I want to ask what salary a fresh CA inter(without articleship) is getting now adays in Karachi ? Im currently a student of Module C .

- FARHAN123 - 03-02-2010

@shahzykhan

Are you a CA finalist or have u qualified ur CA ? If not . In which module are you now ??

- kamranACA - 03-03-2010

Dears

CA Inter, I must agree, is not a "qualification" and is being discussed entirely in wrong perspective. It is meant for further studies and training which transforms it to a professional with the passage of time.

CA Intermediate may be called "part qualified" but rules do not allow any CA Inter to even mention it as a qualification (suffix) on any document with his/her name.

In Pakistan, CA Intermediate who has completed articles may be very good at his work which may bring success and returns for him. Academic exams (even of professional qualification), merely at their own may not be too good to bring desired results. Experience does count and CA Intermediates normally have this edge over typical ACCA affiliates. Yes, it appears logical if we don't compare ACCA members having enough exposure with CA Inters. But here exposure has to be seen in qualitative terms.

In international scenario, we must agree that CA Intermediate may not be a contestant to the game since at most of the locations like UAE you only need a tag with your name be it even CIA; regardless you know anything or not. Yet, it's great if even the unqualified CA Inters are getting good packages at UAE and are a factor of indirect fear for the people who tend to discuss them. Yeh ejaz hai CA Inter ka ya kisi kay ander ka khauf, I cannot comment.

By the way, one of my ex-juniors (currently CA Finalist) has been working on 23K AED per month at a famous finance company of DXB. However, foreseeing DXB conditions he joined UBL on a bit lower package (around 18K AED per month; and this worked for him as a secure and safe job in tough days.

As far as jobs and salary range in Pak is concerned, a lot more depends upon personal skills and the level of exposure and understanding one possesses.

I tend to agree with the range of Rs.45K to 70K mentioned by some one. However, we know some people don't get it and this is due to market reasons, lack of skills, lack of relations, and lack of proper support from some "reference". A few months back one of my student who was CA Inter has been appointed by Pakistan's fampus brokerage house at around Rs.70K-75K per month with 1000 cc car. There are cases from 40K to 50K in routine.

I, at the end again mention my viewpoint, that notwithstanding the earnings levels, I don't feel CA Inter is a qualification. People should put in hard efforts to be called as qualified ones, if they desire to a part of the real contest. Debating to prove CA Intermediate as a qualification will not add any value.

Regards,

Kamran.