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Seniors advice on current market situation - Ali.M - 02-21-2010

I am a Student of CA and have done my CA-Intermediate, my MFC is 11th.

I have applied almost 30 approved chartered accountancy firm registered with ICAP. Unfortunately, didn't received any response yet.

It looks like my career is end because if firm won't induct i won't be able to give my Final papers.

I know that its my mistake that i didn't passed my papers in first attempt i am not an extraordinary student and as i am CA-Inter i should be given preference over others irrespective of number of attempts.

And If fortunately, get inducted in a small firm after qualifying i would be unemployed because recently i have seen a job post by small firm(Not to mention name) CA qualified required, articleship mandate from BIG-4. It means who have done articles from small firms are out of the pavillion like the firms are doing with us i.e first attemptist should apply.

According to ICAP code of ethics para 250.1

[red]<b>"In any communications, announcements and public notices,
chartered accountants should not
(a) use means, which bring the profession into disrepute;
(b) make exaggerated claims for the services they are able to offer,
the qualifications they possess, or experience they have gained;
© denigrate the work of other accountants"</b>
So wats the firms are doing aren't they publicizing big4??

In short atleast a CA student should be given an opportunity to depict his/her skills.

Please reply to this post, specially seniors, partners and managers.

- ausmanpk2001 - 02-21-2010

I don't consider myself a senior, however as I'm in the market...

Market condition is bad and still there are opportunities. Once you have some experience even from small firms, small firms will hire you.

Usually people from big4 don't do jobs at small firms so asking for a big4 student in an ad is different & actually hiring one is totally different. Have you applied to the SBP A rated firms. They still have value if not equal to big4.

- Ali.M - 02-21-2010

Thank you for your reply.

One of my friends in small told me that they have just hired two audit managers who have done articles from KPMG.

And i have seen the market of Pakistan since my age of maturity that once a thing demand falls then it usually won't rise.

What one should do in this situation?

- Ali.M - 02-21-2010

Even i have begged a small firm audit manager but he told me sorry we don't any have vacancy and in the mean while after 2 days the same firm inducted ACCA- partly qualified student.

Extremly sorry to say that I don't know why Pakistani people have the thinking of preferring foreign qualification over our local qualification.

- Ataush Shafi - 02-21-2010

do not lose hope. just try now in top 10-15 firms in the city u belong & pray. I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT khuda hamesha duaoon ko sunta aur qabool krta hy & i recommend u that too .

- Ali.M - 02-21-2010

Dear i have applied in top 10-15 firms not once but twice and thrice...

No response has yet been received...

Please advice what i should do?

- Ataush Shafi - 02-22-2010

if u have applied then u have no reference? then u will never get articleship in any good firm. ok. it is the reality that u have to accept.

- Ali.M - 02-22-2010

True, I have no reference, my only source and last resort is Almighty Allah.

Having no reference means i have to quit my profession?

- lonewolf - 02-22-2010

^Dear i myself has no reference like you & i m from 13th mfc, cleared my inter in last attepmt.i also applied in top 10 firms but no response.Now after such long wait i have joined a small firm & i would also suggest you to do so.Because we can't sit idle all our life waiting to be inducted in big firms.There has to be a starting point.

- Ali.M - 02-22-2010

Yaar but kitni small firm??
The firm which audits and compiles accounts of sole proprietor and partnership firms?

There would be no exposure yaar... And after being qualified would employer of a public company would hire me?? obviously not yar because market has lots of option available ACCA,CIMA,ICMA,CPA,CIA etc bunch of qualification and all these people are shifting towards internship from Big firms... I am worried that in future the demand of CA's would fall.

Do your firm have listed clients?

- Dard - 02-22-2010

Being a C.A inter does not mean you are 100% sure to get a chance in the BIG4; That is just a requirement. When there is competition, individual abilities come into play. Others might have been prefered over you because of their individual abilities. Firms prefer C.A inters more than ACCA students if they both have the same intellectual level. However in your case things may be the other way around. You should try to improve your weak areas

- Ali.M - 02-22-2010

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dard</i>
<br />Being a C.A inter does not mean you are 100% sure to get a chance in the BIG4; That is just a requirement. When there is competition, individual abilities come into play. Others might have been prefered over you because of their individual abilities. Firms prefer C.A inters more than ACCA students if they both have the same intellectual level. However in your case things may be the other way around. You should try to improve your weak areas
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I totally agree with you due to competition employer will choose the best candidate. But dear tell me that due to mandatory articleship if i won't be inducted i am not eligible to attempt my finals.
And articles are not mandatory for ACCA unless they register themselves for CA articles and their are many who are working at firm for just gaining experience for 1-2 years.

Lets make a statistics 450 CA-inter qualify in autumn 2009 attempt lets suppose half of them are from Khi i.e 225 candidates

Total qualified
First attempt from TSA 25
-do- Alhamd 25
-do- others 50
Total 100
remaining are not first attempt
AFF inducts 50 students 1st attempt
KPMG inducts 30 -do-
EY inducts 30 -do-
Deliotte 30 -do-
Total 140

100 first attemptist 40 second and third attemptist
remaining 85 other than first, second and third attemptist

And still lower tier firms requires first attemptist...
I have been through these all lower tier firm most of them told me that you are too late...

Wat one should do? Strange!!!

- Schuaeb - 02-22-2010

Ali.M, your situation is really disappointing. Unfortunately, situation of Pakistan economy has made things difficult for all of those who are searching for jobs, and situation is even worse for students searching for CA firms. Market situation will obviously improve but not in for see-able future.

Situation is very clear for you and you have to take your decision. If you qualified CA Inter in the last attempt it means your firm search is almost four months now. Number of attempts you took for your inter is another negative point. Having training from a small firm is not very recommendable, however, if other options are not available then some tough decisions are needed to be taken. Try to go for every reference you know and make sure you have applied in all medium firms.

- kamranACA - 02-23-2010


Our students lately were worried about shorter Stipend levels. I was of the view that if the stipend levels will rise, problem will again be faced by none else but students; and we have witnessed samething happening.

One of the country head of a big firm in a recent meeting told me that their average cost per trainee has gone around Rs. 15-20 thousand per month.

Here we are not discussing what an ideal situation should be, but what the fact actually is. All big firms have curtailed down the intake number of students merely for this one reason and I am telling you what is the major issue.

People praise "commercialization" and make good points in its favor. We have a thread which only focused on "stipend rates". However, they forget that this "commercialization" will also be taken care of by others. Certainly they will rework the margins, actual requirement, try to improve efficiency and reduce costs.

So, the positive intent to benefit upcoming generations is now getting replaced by commercial approach. This is not happening in Pakistan only. You can see it around the globe.

The question raised by Ali is of significance and is very critical. Although I believe he will get a seat and the situation is not yet that grave, still, I just wish to tell him that in so many professions people do hard work but ultimately they avail nothing. So CA is not an exception. Everything in life is contingent.

Yet, I believe Ali will get a position in some firm soon as I said I believe situation is still not that grave.

Ali, where r u located at? Do send me your CV using e-mailing option of this forum. Also keep in loop if you get some entry anywhere.

Don't lose heart; I ensure you situation is yet not that deteriorated.



- Ali.M - 02-23-2010

Thank you all for your responses.

Sir Kamran you are absolutely right one of our teachers told us that Big firms are bearing the extra average cost on the trainees because of the increase in stipend rate plus they have to provide each trainee laptop and original audit softwares, which ultimately increase the per trainee cost.

But i have one query to it that due inflationaty economy firms according to rational approach would also be charging increased audit remuneration which would have bought the condition at equilibrium.

However, i have told one of the partner of AFF that i can negotiate on stipend rates i can sign on contract of Rs.6500/= but would actually receive Rs.2000/=. He told me cost cutting is not the main issue but firm's policy is the issue.

If you look from this perspective that as firms due to any reason directly or indirectly creating discrimination, market would also discriminate CA qualified and all CA shall not be consider equal, due to stereotyping, and eventually CA prestige would fall, im afraid of this worst situation.

I have seen job post yaar of one of the bank their criteria was CA required articleship mandate from Big-4.

Well, i believe in Almighty, He shall do best for each and every human being.

Sir kamran i live at Karachi.
Would you please advice up till which firm i should try to get inducted because articles from lower tier firm would not be worth while, and its better to do job rather being inducted in lower tier firm.