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+--- Thread: Resolving rumours and myths about ACCA in Pak (/showthread.php?tid=7520)
Resolving rumours and myths about ACCA in Pak - Dard - 03-03-2010
Dear readers,
After going through many posts here i see there are so many misconceptions about ACCA in Pakistan. Although there is a seperate topic relating to misconceptions and myths of ACCA, this topic is specifically for those PpL who think ACCA as inferior to ICAP's C.A.
I love to do research and go into details of information and facts, so here are my findings
There have been allegations that ACCA's examining standard is not as high as ICAP's. Well, i had a talk with a highly respected professional, who is going to be a FCA(ICAP) this year, teaches certain papers of C.A inter and module E and F, and is also a teacher of certain papers of fundamentals and professional module of ACCA. When i enquired him about the comparison of examining level of both ACCA and ICAP's C.A, he said ACCA's examining standard is of higher level and well-structured. In an answer to my question-"If consolidation is examined in ICAP's C.A, would it be of the same level as ACCA's F7 and P2?"- he said ICAP's question will be of a lower level than ACCAs(this question was asked as an example of examining level of ACCA)
Many PpL believe ACCAs to be inferior to ACAs in Pakistan. The only ground for this belief is that CA is a local qualification. All of the PpL in senior positions in audit firms are ACAs and FCAs, who consider ACCA students as something very low and having no knowledge. It is really sad to see that in Pakistan discrimination is at its best You will see PpL discriminating on the basis of sex, race, qualification and region
There are many PpL out there who argue that ACCAs need support of ICAP to excel in Pakistan. I ask them, on what basis do you conclude that? If it is because of requiring practise certificate of ICAP, then we all should be aware that most of us don't go for public practising. I don't see any reason for support of ICAP for ACCAs in multinational and other companies
Some argue that ACCA is comparatively too easy to be passed than C.A, but they don't quote the REASONS for it. It is comparatively easy not because its examining level is low, but because there are various resources available for students to study and pass. ACCA has a structured approach in exams, whereas C.A does not. In ACCA, you know how many questions are going to be examined, in C.A you never know the number of questions. In ACCA there are certain papers where you can predict the questions. For example In paper F7 you know Q1 will always be consolidation, Q2 group accounts, and in Paper F8, Q1 will be on Audit evidence and procedures and Q2 purely knowledge-based. In C.A, you never know anything like this. In ACCA you have a clear, transparent and published marking scheme, in C.A you don't
If ACCA starts adopting policies of ICAP, it will be much much tougher than ICAP's C.A. In ACCA examiner wants good students to pass, not fail
There are many brain-washed PpL out there who would talk against ACCA no matter what fact you provide them with
- Boss - 03-03-2010
Hmmm,[8D]
I see much frustration and fear in you, which you possess against ICAP and accordingly I expect that you wont claim exemptions from ICAP (to become ICAP's Member) after completing your ACCA, <b>Agar aik baap ki aulad ho tou</b>[})]. Remember my words written in bold, think 10 times before you claim exemptions from ICAP.
- Greatkhans - 03-03-2010
Hi Boss,
Thinking changes according to experience, time and circumstances. What Dard is thinking now might change in future because of some reasons, so I would suggest forum members not to use these kind a words which you wrote in bold.
Every country protects its local designations and there is nothing strange if ICAP/ICMAP do so. In many countries you can't even use these designation if your are not a member of local body. It is natural that ICAP/ICMAP will have an upper hand over ACCA.
But at the same time ACCA is also a reputed accounting body which should not be undermined. Let the market decide who has potential. It will make no difference if one or two people disagree on this forum. Accounting is just not all about practicing. There are hundred of other aspect which could be explored and prove worthiness. In real job markets, as I mentioned many times an employer in just not interested in your designation, he demands many many more things that includes but not limited to your communications skills, technical knowledge, computer & IT skills, presentation skills etc.
I would again request that don't make your discussion a matter of prestige. Avoid hurting words.
Regards,
GREAT KHANS
- ACCAite - 03-03-2010
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Greatkhans</i>
<br />Hi Boss,
Thinking changes according to experience, time and circumstances. What Dard is thinking now might change in future because of some reasons, so I would suggest forum members not to use these kind a words which you wrote in bold.
Every country protects its local designations and there is nothing strange if ICAP/ICMAP do so. In many countries you can't even use these designation if your are not a member of local body. It is natural that ICAP/ICMAP will have an upper hand over ACCA.
But at the same time ACCA is also a reputed accounting body which should not be undermined. Let the market decide who has potential. It will make no difference if one or two people disagree on this forum. Accounting is just not all about practicing. There are hundred of other aspect which could be explored and prove worthiness. In real job markets, as I mentioned many times an employer in just not interested in your designation, he demands many many more things that includes but not limited to your communications skills, technical knowledge, computer & IT skills, presentation skills etc.
I would again request that don't make your discussion a matter of prestige. Avoid hurting words.
Regards,
GREAT KHANS
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
@GREATKHANS unbiased and very well put.
@BOSS, watch what you say here buddy. If the moderators are active, they need to do something about it.
- Boss - 03-03-2010
Dear GreatKhans,
I agree with your inputs, thank you for your contribution at this thread, however let me clarify that ACCA might have some worth outside pakistan, in some countries. But this does not make sense at all that a person with illogical arguments comparing any qualification with CMA/CA of pakistan, in pakistan. Irrespective of whatever respect an ACCA could possess outside Pakistan, one should remember that ACCA can never be treated equivalent to Pakistani Professional Qualification. Although, they know this fact very well, but due to internal fear and frustration, since they are associated with ACCA themselves, they do not want to accept ICAP on upper hand.
Dear ACCAite,
I still stand on my words invariably, ACCA is only good if you would want to claim exemptions from ICAP on its basis. I understand, they will have to be associated with ICAP one day, when they would get frustrated with the environment/circumstances which they would have in pakistan.
When you need ICAP assistance in future to strengthen yourself by claiming exemptions therefrom, then why you allege ACCA better as compare to Local qualification?
Thali ka began kaha jata hai aisay logon ko, jo bad may ICAP ki cmamcha geeri karain gay after taking exemptions from ICAP on ACCA's basis.
- Dard - 03-03-2010
Most of the things i mentioned in my post were said by a professional mentioned in my last post
My last paragraph of my last post was specially meant for biased and unethical and disrespectful PpL like Boss, who blabber with blind eyes without knowing the purpose of the topic and information provided. Grow up kids
Greatkhan that's what is called an independent and impartial view given by you. I appreciate it. Unfortunately ACCA is discriminated in Pakistan not on the basis of knowledge and technical skills, but because most of the senior level PpL in entities/firms don't like ACCA personally and they just won't let ACCAs excel due to obvious reasons
- Dard - 03-03-2010
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ACCAite</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Greatkhans</i>
<br />Hi Boss,
Thinking changes according to experience, time and circumstances. What Dard is thinking now might change in future because of some reasons, so I would suggest forum members not to use these kind a words which you wrote in bold.
Every country protects its local designations and there is nothing strange if ICAP/ICMAP do so. In many countries you can't even use these designation if your are not a member of local body. It is natural that ICAP/ICMAP will have an upper hand over ACCA.
But at the same time ACCA is also a reputed accounting body which should not be undermined. Let the market decide who has potential. It will make no difference if one or two people disagree on this forum. Accounting is just not all about practicing. There are hundred of other aspect which could be explored and prove worthiness. In real job markets, as I mentioned many times an employer in just not interested in your designation, he demands many many more things that includes but not limited to your communications skills, technical knowledge, computer & IT skills, presentation skills etc.
I would again request that don't make your discussion a matter of prestige. Avoid hurting words.
Regards,
GREAT KHANS
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
@GREATKHANS unbiased and very well put.
@BOSS, watch what you say here buddy. If the moderators are active, they need to do something about it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Every place has ill-mannered PpL, so it's better to ignore them because no matter what facts and logics you provide them with, they just won't accept it and start talking as seen here due to enmity
My post was for PpL who have senses, are reasonable and see both sides of the picture
- kamranACA - 03-03-2010
Dard
You are Mashallah intelligent student having inquisitiveness that is a good feature but are getting emotional well before time.
I advise you to wait for a few years; so that you can uncover the widely prevelant facts.
GreatKhan has concluded his post in a nice manner and I agree that ACCA should not be undermined for the repute it got as a professional body. I also agree that personal skills, knowledge and exposure (coupled with a good designation) make you much marketable.
However, I tend to add and emphasize that a "particular qualification" does play a vital role AS WELL in a given market and skills solely don't provide the required plateform. This "particular qualification" can be different at different locations and there should be no problem in accepting the fact. (I believe UAE alone is not a material example to prove to the contrary.)
One further thing, I agree that certainly the views expressed at this forum by one or two members; "as well as by five or ten members", do not make a difference and progress of every thing has to make its way itself.
Let me say something about the words of your teacher(s). Most of teachers (including CAs) would be giving you similar remarks to portary ACCA's bigger picture; and I know you cannot understand the reasons for the sake of your lacking at real life exposure. One of Karachi's biigest colleges (RAET) is owned by a very close friend of mine; and he along with the teachers of his college also do the same thing. People like you are their bread and butter and how can they paint a smaller snap of yours? ACCA's entry in Pak has increased the amount of butter on their bread (to be more precise) and this all is quite natural. You may not be aware that the ones who run PIPFA's colleges also draw similar pictures for their students. You may not understand it but time will clarify the situation.
Some ACCA are tied up in a thought that they study some out of the world things. Bhaai parhata kaun hai tumko? How funny is it that the member of same ICAP teaches you the stuff that is too superior to what he had studied in his career. I mean he never saw and learnt what he is teaching to you? For God's sake! This is what I must call a myth.
Every one at colleges is making money like ACCA is itself doing and majority of the people having enough pounds are sacrificing it for the sake it is a foreign qualification. No one is worrying for your future; and students at large like "oily" outlook of "khayaali pulaao" cooked by those who are squeezing out the hard earned money of their elders.
Still, I am of the view that once you have a designation (ACCA) you can excel specially if you leave Pak or you keep forebearnce to accept the facts.
This is a brotherly advice that you should concentrate your objective which I know is really good and well focused. Writing posts like this is not going to do anything since it is being done for last 5-6 years without a result and situation is "as it is". I guess it is the time to rescind the conclusion-less debate.
I believe God will bless those who work hard. All world is yours!
Regards,
Kamran.
One further thing to be added; I advise you not to bring in the debate on "discrimination", otherwise another debate will be initiated and I will ask you about a lot of discrimination being done at every corner of the world, specially by the "most civilized nations".
- Dard - 03-03-2010
Dear Kamran Bhai,
The professional i mentioned is really a well-known person in the field, especially in tax(you might have heard his name too), but i won't disclose the name due to privacy
He is NOT an ACCA but ICAP member. Why would such a prestige person answer in favour of ACCA if it's not the fact? Due to his position, i believe he is the only person who could really compare the EXAMINING level of both the institutions with impartialness. I asked him what you had said(ACCAs need support of ICAP) and he answered, "It is in a sense true that in audit firms there are ACAs and FCAs sitting in senior positions who think ACCA is nothing". Is that sort of behaviour justified? I mean it is just not fair
There are some PpL out here who have a blind and unjustified belief that ACCA is just nothing compared to ICAP in terms of syllabus, knowledge, application, analysis, interpretation, examining level etc etc. They think ACCA hardly equals to B.Com and other incomparable degrees (i am sure you know who they are). The purpose of my post was to reduce the so-many wrong perceptions about ACCA in Pakistan, and not create controversies. I respect ICAP, it's students and members as much as i respect ACCA and other institutes
- kamranACA - 03-03-2010
Dard
I am not posting more stuff on a thing which our fellows don't tend to understand. You will get the answer to your question that why that CA (I no where said he would not be CA) told you the things you shared here, if you will carefully read my last post.
Regards,
- Dard - 03-04-2010
When MOST of the C.As portray that picture of ACCA, that means there is atleast some truth to it. They do have a conscious, and not everyone among them would lie and give a false picture to students. Butter bhi bread k uppar tab he lagta hai jab bread ho. I hope you have got what i meant by this
- kamranACA - 03-04-2010
Certainly; it is the bread of your teachers, not yours.
- Dard - 03-04-2010
What i meant was. . . You can only butter something when there is to something to butter on
- Boss - 03-04-2010
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dard</i>
<br />What i meant was. . . You can only butter something when there is to something to butter on
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Are you butter or bread?[})]
- usmansss - 03-04-2010
This debate do not have any ending point ! I don't understand why 80 % of topic on this form end up in debate of useless subject " CA vs ACCA " which has no ending point .