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+--- Thread: Zaid Hamid Escaping (/showthread.php?tid=7526)
- Ali RAZA - 11-01-2010
I agree with the above post of ciapk.
- yasir_live - 11-01-2010
Ciapk.
Dear abhi tu office main youtube block hay lakin raat ko ghar main check karunga yeh link. Yaar kya dance karna sahi hay chahay woh kisi roomi-shoomi nay hi kyuna introduce karvaya ho ??? Aur in malango ki asliat tu Sewan-Shareef main nazar ati hay Jahan inhon nay Charas k dhuain say aasmaan bhara hota hay.
Tu meray dost Ciapk, main nay yeh sab yahan saudi main tu nahi dekha itna ziada, I mean log Allah k batai hui taleem ko accept kartay hain bajai in Roomi-shoomi jesay maulanao k chakeron main perna. be-shak Mukammal tu hay sab kuch Jo Quran or Ahadees k zariyay hum tak phoncha.
*Koi ghalat baat agar main nay likhi hay tu intentionally nahi likhi.....So just correct me if I am wrong *
Regards.
- Anamz1 - 11-01-2010
@ Ciapk
Your explanation has created a lot of confusions in my mind. Will you please explain and differentiate Auliya, Bazurgan e Deen, and Sufiyaah within the context of Islam. (Jin mai sy aksar bohat buland darjaat rakhny waloon ko tou bohat izzaht o tafheem bhe di gai hai Islam mai, according to our knowledge and our ancestor's knowledge) Please explain each category and its differences separately. Thanks.
- ciapk - 11-02-2010
Dear Yasir
Main nahi kehta k Saudia main 100% Asal Islam hay laikin Allah ka khas karam hay k ajkal pori dunya main sb say ziada sahih shakal main Islam sirf Saudia he main moojod hay (Talking about Ulema of Saudia, not talking about Ayashi of Saudia Princes) baqi sub continent k logo k Saudia walay sahi Islam k baray main jannay k liay bhi ap youtube search kr lain buhat say so called Ulema k nazdeek tu Imam e Kaba k peechay nmaz he jaiz nai hay (Naooz BILLAH)isi liay k wo Auliya ko Auliya na mantay etc.
Dear Annumz.
Ayliya ka matlab hay Allah k dost, or koi bhi shakhs jis k baray main kaha jay wo buhat wali Allah hy yay daikha jay ga k us Wali k Toheed O Raslat k baray main kia aqaid hain or wo Allah k hukam or Muhammad SW ki sunnat pay kitna amal krtay hain. Agr kisi shaks ka koi bhi amal Allah or Allah k Rasool SW k hukam sy hat k hay tu wo Allah ka wali kaisay ho skta hay? wo shetan hay or apni jadogari sy Muslmano ko dhoka daita hay or sahih deen jo Allah or Allah k Nabi SW ny btaya or amal kr k dikha dia us say behka k apnay nizam ki taraf dawat daita hay jo jhot hay batil hay.
Ab meri is Ayliya ki defination main aik aik wali ko rakh k daikh lo jo fit ay wo wali jo na aay wo shetan. In the context of Zaid Hamid that he treats Yousuf as Sufi tu Sufiism k ander buhat say aqaid hain jo mushrikana hain but unko sugar quoted alfaz k sath paish kia jata hay bt ander main zehar hota hay. Ager Mirza Qadyani nay Nabowat ka dawa kia tu wo bhi isi sufisim k ander n agr yousuf nay bhi ager kia tha tu wo bhi sufism k ander moojod concepts k saharay. I will send you details.
- WARDAH - 11-02-2010
mujhko b send krna ciapk i m despirately waiting......as anum ny jo pocha wo mairay mind mai b tha to mujhko b btana plz.or tmaam bhai log us link ka luby lubaab to byan krdo k hai kia atleast jo us mai kaam ki baat smjhani chahi hai ciapk ny wo to byan kro after watching as hum py to pabndi lgi hai (
- yasir_live - 11-02-2010
Wardah.
I wonder y Ciapk had share this link ) Anyways.......lub-e-lubab yeh hay k iss vedio main ek johnny liver ki shakal ka bunda kuch kawali type gaa raha hota hay........Aur uss k aas pass bhi Elay-melaay log bethay hotay hain hehehehe Aur ek hajoom hay logon ka jo bhangraay dal rahay hotay hain..........Itnay main ek chacha jin say hila-jula nahi jaa raha un ko godon main laya jata hay........khair woh bethay hotay hain k achanak say un k ander ki Tawaaif zinda ho jati hay Aur woh bhi bhangraa dalna shruu ho jatay hain yeh bhool kar k thori dair pehlay tak unsay chala bhi nahi jaa raha tha......hehehehehe Buss Dear yahin tak dakhi 3 min ki baki 4 min ki main nay nahi dakhi.........
Ciapk.
Dear I am sure, there must be any message for which u refer this link. kya message tha ???
Regards.
- ciapk - 11-02-2010
Dear Yasir, message is, k wo baba ji Noori Sarkar kehlatay hain jo Shahbaz Qalndar k mzar pay pay jatay hain or Dhmal ki shan main jo kuch wo byan frmatay hay wo Sufism main spiritual dance ( Rumi wala) ki jadeed shakal hay wo Sufism jis nay Islam ko buhat phailaya hay. Mujy yaqeen nahi hay k ap nay end tak na daikhi ho.-)wo jo chacha hay wo bad main bhi khud nahi hil rahay bhai un ko hilaya ja raha hay, phr sy ghoor kro -)
- yasir_live - 11-02-2010
Abb phir say dakhun main ???? Bhai main dobara office main betha hun.......Aur un chacha main wesay bhi esa kya hay jo main dekhon ) Main nay wakai akhir tak nahi dakhi. Yaar mera in cheezon per yakeen nahi hay shayad isliay main dilchuspi nahi leta Dance-bhangray daal kar islaam pehlana.....pata nahi sahi hay ya nahi......
You know Zakir naik, woh sirf Quran ki ayaat sunatay hain Aur Ahadees Reference k saath. Aur Quran Aur Hadees ki khoobsurat or sachi baatain sun kar kai logon nay islam kabool kar lia.
Anyways tum kyun dakh rahay thay you-tube per yeh cheezain hehehehe.........Is ka matlab hay k tum dekhtay ho esi cheezain )
Regards.
- ciapk - 11-02-2010
Hahahahaahah, Dear main aisi cheezain is liay daikhta hun or dikhata hun takay chehray pay shrafat k naqab dalay hoay Lambi Lambi darhee or rang brangay cholon main jhotay loog Moojood hain un ko expose kia ja skay or Awam ko saboot k sath btaya jay k wo kis Islam py chal rahay hain or is Islam pay chlnay wala kahan jata hay.
Bayshak, Islam do he cheezon ka name hay Allah ka hukam or Muhammad SW ka tareeqa jo hmain Sahihi Ahadis e Mubarika say milta hay, or agr in do cheezon say koi baat nahi milay tu Sahaba Kiram RA k Asaar.Is k illawa agr koi bat hay tu wo jhot hay, kisi bhi sorat main Islam nahi hay.
Infact, mera wo link post krnay ka maqsad yay hay k Islamic Spiritualistics k nazdeek jab wo Wajad ya Haal main hotay hain (jaisa k ap nay daikha) tu wo Majzoob ho jatay hain or is halat main kuch bhi keh daitay hain. Main sb ko wajad or haal ka haal dikha raha tha.
Fraoon nay kaha main khuda hun tu wo Allah ka dushman krar dia gia, Mansoor Hallaj nay kaha main he khuda hun tu usay kaha gia majzoobiat ki halat main or Ishq e Illahi main doooob kr bola hay lehaza wo Sardar or Ayliya ho gia.(us waqt k Ulema nay usay qatal ka fatwa dia or usay qatal kia gia) Bayzeed Bastami na bola Khudai ka wo bhi Majzzob ho ka Ayliya Allah ho gay, wahdat Ul wajood ki term ijaad ki gain k hr cheez khuda hay or khuda hr cheez hay ( Insan Hewan Jin Naooz Billah sb khuda hay or Khuda in sb main hai) Philosphana batain ghuma phira k alfaz ka radoo bdal kr k Allah ki wahdaniat ka inkar kia gia or Hindu ki tarah hr cheez k khuda honay ka dawa kia gia or abhi bhi kia jata hay. Laikin us pay koi nahin bolta jo jar hay jhotay Nabion ki paidaish ki. Halool ka aqeeda jis k mutabiq Shaikh itni bulandi pr pohanch jatay hain k Allah un k ander aa jata hay (NaoozBillah). Or kiun koi bolay ga? is hmam main sb nangay jo hain. buhat bray bray ulema k name aatay hain k unki books bhri hoi hain in aqaid say.
So, main nay yehe kaha hay deen kisi phalsphor ki chwloon ka name nai hay. Buhat seedha sadha name hay Allah k ahkam Allah k Nabi SW k btay hoay tareeqon py amal krnay ka. But, unfortunately, bri bri khankahoo k name atay hain bray bray Shaikh ul hadees expose hotay hay is liay is jr k baray main koi nahin bol raha tha jis ki waja say loog majzoob ho k kbhi khuda bn jatay hain or kbhi Rasool Naoozbillah.
NazoBillah mera question yay tha k Yousuf ka kia qusoor hay agr us nay majzoobiat main apnay sathion ko sahaba keh dia? Apko maloom hay k Khudai ka dawa krnay walon ki shan main yahan books likhi jati hain? Miraz Qadyan ka kia qusoor hay? Goher shahi ko agr apni tasweer chand main nzar aati hay tu uska kia qusoor hay ? yay sb tu sachay sufi hain Naooz Billah, Aur Khudai ka dawa krnay walay Shaheed e Sufia ( Allah ki Lanat aisay ishq e Illahi per or aisay qurb e Illahe per jo Khaliq or Makhlooq ka frq he mita day)
Ap nay shaid Fana Fillah, Baqa Billah, Haqeqat, or Tareeqat ki philosphy nahi prhi, yay sari terms or in k conceptes apko hindu yogism, vedanta, meditation, spirtuality ki sorat main apko hinduism, Christan, bud ism, Jewish, sb main nzar aa jay gi, do search on google n compare the concepts side by side, concepts same hungay but name change hungay, Ham Arabi main boltay hain wo apni apni zubano main or un logo ki bhi buhat kramat hoti hain you can check powers of hindu spirtulism on google.
Aam loog in sb kufr or shirk ki philoshion sy waqif nahin hain wo sirf kramat daikh k emaan lay atay hain. Allah hm sab ko Allah or Allah k Nabi SW k diay gay Islam pay zinda rakhay or mout day (Ameen)
Finally, I do believe k Spiritualistic powers mojood hain, laikin Islam say iska koi taluq nahi hay. For Example Agar kisi ko hath daikhna aata hay usnay palmistry prhe hy or seekhi hay, ya kisi ko face reading aati hay or us nay prhi ya seekhi hay or experience bhi kia hay or wo face daikh k sb kuch bta daita hy, ya samnay wala kia soch raha hy jan laita hay, ya usay hypnotism aati hay wo zehno ko apnay tabay kr laita hay tu uska hr giz yay mtlab nahin hay ko Allah ka Wali hay. Same knowledges, spirituality koi bhi hindu, sikh yahoodi, muslim agr seekhay smjay tu tu us k pass buhat si supernatural powers aa jati hain layikin in powers ka religion say koi taluq nai hay. Yahan loog Allah ho ki zrbain lga k power hasil krtay hain n Hindustan main AUM ka mantra prh k. That's Separate science apart of religion and i think it as a Magic.
- WARDAH - 11-02-2010
@ciapk....dimagh ki bti jla di tumny dear ) prh k kafi kuch chlny lg pra hai dimagh mai.n thnks tum bohat achy triqy sy clear krtay ho is py tumhari jitni b tareef ki jae km hai.but mai sath mai yaqeenan or members ki rae janna chahon gi jin mai toronto n kami bhai sar-e-fehrist hain.k baray or smjhdar log discussion mai hisa lain gy to mujhjaisi naqs-ul-aql k ply b kuch prhy ga but plz jo b bolay urdu mai bolay aisa ni hai k mujhko smjh ni ae ga but kuch pt phir b oper sy guzer jatay hain......khair ciapk to strightfarwadly tuhara kehna hai k in peer,sufi,auliya etc k chkron mai prhna hi ni chahye?i mean ye jitny b jin k darbaar/mazaar hain (including all)?
- ciapk - 11-02-2010
Dear Wardah
Mera yay hergiz matlab nahi hay k Allah k wali nahin hotay, bayshak dunya main buhat say Allah k Wali hain. Aylia ki pehchan main nay btai hay k wo apni Ibadat main, apni zindagi k hr hr kam main choti si choti or bri sy bri bat main authentic Sunnat tareeqa he follow kray ga wo kbhi bhi iskay khilaf amal nahin kray ga. agr koi shakhs in conditions ko meet krta hay tu zror us ki sohbat ikhtyar krain or un say Duaa krain. Baqi qbrstan main jaanay or ibrat hasil krnay ki ijazat hay. kionkay qbar mout yad dilati hay. ab yay depend krta hy k kis mzar pay apko mout yad aati hay or kis pay raqs. waisay bhi kisi apnay ki qbar pay jain jo hmaray sath tha or hmain chor gia tab tu shaid yaad aaay wrna kisi or ki qbar ko daikh k hmain kia yaad ana hy jo ham sb ka haal hay.
- WARDAH - 11-02-2010
ok ok got u.thanks dear.
- Toronto_Boy - 11-03-2010
Bhaio
On overall basis I agree with ciapk opinion about evaluating one's actions (amal) in the light of teachings of Islam given by Quran, Sunnah, and Ijma etc. and to follow him.
Magar ham sab main aik kharabi hay kay ham aik objective discussion say hat jatay hain. Jo sawal hay pahlay oska jwab nikalna chayay, phir kisi aur mozoo par guftugoo. Warna yahi hoga kay swal gundum aur jawab chana.
Iss thread par bunyadi swal 2 aay thay. Pahla yah kay Zaid Hamid par bila waja ilzaam tarashi ki gai jabkay osnay saaf alfaz main apna eeman zahir kia tha. Iss pahlay swal ka jawab dhondtay hoay Yosuf ka zikar aya aur ossay jhoti nabuwat ka dawaydaar sabit kartay hoay yah kaha gya kay chunkay Zaid Hamid ki nisbat Yousuf say thi iss liay Zaid bhi jhota hay. Issi tarha Yosuf kay qatal ki mazzamat bhi nahi ki gai. Yousuf ka jhoti nabuwat ka dawa aur phir qatal 2nd swal hay.
New readers kay liay main apna point of view doobara duhra dun yahan. Mayray khyal main jab kisis sakhs nay khulay alfaz main Huzoor-e-Akram (SAW) kay katim un nabeen honay ka iqrar karlia hay (yani Zaid nay) tu oskay eeman kay baray main phir shak karna ham insaanon ka kaam nahi hay kionkay har insaan kay eeman kay baray main Allah ko hi maloom hay, insaanon ko nahi. Doosri baat yah kay Yosuf ka jo bhi moaamla tha, ossay thik tareeqay say nahi settle kia gya, aur kutch molvion kay fatwon ki bunyaad par ossay marwa-e-adalat qatal karna thik nahi tha. Pahlay tamam zaroori requirements ko mulki qawaneen kay mutabiq poora karna chayay tha, aur oskay baad adalat jo bhi munasib samjhti fayslaa karti. Adalat ka fayslaa sab ko qabool hota. Ab jiss nay bhi osko tamam taqazay pooray honay say pahlay qatal kia osko "aashiq-e-rassol" nahi balkay "qatil" kahlana chayay.
Yahan hamaray Ulema ka kirdaar kafi kamzoor hay. Kutch nay Yousuf kay qatal ka fatwa dya. Muqadmay ki samaat kay doran logon ko ishtiaal main aanay say mana nahi kia. Aur ab bhi insaaf kay taqazay pooray honay say pahlay, muqadmay kay dooraan Yosuf ko qatal karnay walay ko qatil kahna chayay, iski tashih bhi Ulema nahi kartay.
Sach ko hamaisha saaf aur mukamal hona chayay. Aadha sach jhot hi hota hay.
Agar chand molvion kay fatwon say har sakhs ko doosron ko qatal karnay ka jawaz milnay lag gya tu wohi hoga jo aaj ho raha hay, phir Zaliman (taliban) bhi thik karrahay hain aur Talal Bugti bhi Islam ki khidmat karay ga Musharraf ko qatal karwa kar. Phir muslim societies ko anarchy say koi nahi bacha sakta.
Yah tha iss thread ka discussion.
Sufism aur doosray "ism" aik alag bahas hay, jisko alag say kia jana chayay.
Waysay sahabi aur khalifa Arabi kay alfaz hain jinkay mani saathi ya companion (for sahabi) aur naib ya subordinate (for khalifa) kay hain. Agar Mr. A kisi Mr. B ko english main apna companion ya subordinate kahay tu hamain qubool hoga, magar agar yahi alfaaz Mr. A kisi Mr. B ko Arabi main sahabi aur khalifa kah day tu yah kia nabuwat ka dawa ho jay ga kia (Naoozu Billah)? Magar itni si baat kisi kabutar ki aqal rakhnay walay so-called molvi ko samjh nahi aasakti.
Yahan tu har sakhs ko doosray kay eeman ki fikar hay. Doosron ko qatal kay fatway daynay aur onpar amal ka ikhtiyar hay. Phir ham muslim hain jinkay haath zaban aur amal say doosron ko mamoon hay.
Wasalam
- ciapk - 11-03-2010
Dear Bro,
I am totally agreed with you. Laikin meray khyal main Sufism ka swal isi topic say he related ho or isi main he discuss hona chahyay. Coz yousuf ko ager Ulema board main lay jaya jata ya fedral shariat court main janay ka mooqa dia jata tu saray so called ulema khud bhi expose ho jatay apnay buzurgo ki sfaian dainay main lehaza yousuf ko qatal krwa dia gia. Main yahan is thread main isi liay likhna chah raha hun k is main jhoti nabowat discuss hoi hay laikin jhoti nabowat ki jr discuss nai hoi us k asbab discuss nai hoay or chupay hoay kirdar discuss nahin hoay. agr koi Illalah ko 1000 bar left right sir mar k bolay ga tu meter tu uska ghomna he hay tu wo kbhi khuda bn jany ki koshish kray ga kbhi jhota nabi. So, isi liay yahan py discuss kia k yehe ulema jin ki bat is thread main ho rahi hay aik taraf tu Khudai ka dawa krnay waloo ki shan main books likh rahay hain or nabowat k dawidar (pta nai us nay kia bhi ya nai) k qatal ko islam ki khidmat smaj rahay hain. waisay bhi saza dainay ka ikhtyar hakim e waqt k pass hota hay ulema k pass nahin.
- Toronto_Boy - 11-03-2010
Bhai
Theek hay yani kay iss thread kay main issues par koi 2 rai nahi hain.
Aap aaj kal jo mazaron par ho raha hay oskay baray main zaroor likhain. Agarcha main zati masroofiat ki waja say kutch zyada contribute shayad nahi karsakonga.
Duago...