+- Accountancy Forum (https://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum)
+-- Forum: The Profession (https://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Students (https://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: ICAP discriminating against ACCA (/showthread.php?tid=9611)
ICAP discriminating against ACCA - khani8 - 03-09-2011
I am an ICAPIAN,in the final stages to become an ACA from ICAP,but I have an opinion that ICAP is discriminating agaisnt ACCA students.
ICAP first gave maximum exemptions to ACCA students upto 2000-2001 and then they(ICAP) went with syllabus changes and on this basis they reduced the exemptions for ACCA,while the exemptions available to ICAEW,Canadian CA and Irish and Scotish CA were kept as they were earlier.
The first discrimination was committed there in 2000,now in 2011 from April Ist. ICAP is reducing the exemptions avalable to ACCA students to just 5-7 papers.While no change is being made to ICAEW,CICA and Irish/Scotish CAs.
Now My point is that ICAP should
1) Give full exemptions to all ACCA students as were given upto 2001; and then
2) Disclose that after two years there will be no exepmtion available to ACCA students;so that no Pakistani students wil join ACCAif he is in Pakistan and want to do CA from ICAP.
What will happen with this
All Pakistani students will not go for ACCA if ICAP is not tolerating their presence in PAKISTAN.
OR
ICAP should give same exemptions to all other bodies like ICAEW,CICA and scotish/irish CA institutes.
If ICAP want to protect its market from foreign qualifications then it should protect from all foreign bodies including ICAEW and CICA,Scotish/Irish/Australian.
Why ICAP hates only ACCA,
1) Because its study cost is less and poor pakistanies/middle class people are sacrifising their needs and trying ot I must say thriving for their boys to study ACCA.
Other qualifications are just affordable for rich people of Pakistan.
On this ground I can conclude that ICAP is discriminating not against ACCA but also against the
Middle class of Pakistani Society,
Why ACCA is not band from PAKISTANI educational system at all by ICAP(By reducing the exemptions for ACCA,Other wise ICAP ke BAAP ki Taqat Nahen Hai ke kisi institute ko ban ker sake)
It is the ICAP love for the COlleges that are looting the middle class students and these colleges are owned by some Professional of ICAP like SKANS,TABANI and many others.
It is also noteable that some colleges are even not run by true professionals like MICHIWALLA and Anees Hussain,those especialy the Anees Hussain Has nothing to do with Accountancy,he himself is an engineer or what and His sons are only MBAs.
SUbhan Mirchiwaala himself has not qualified as an ACCA and he is selling dreams to pakistani students.
While a student is studying at these institutes,he just dreams that he his driving a new COROLLA and next to him is sitting his beautiful wife.
After qualifying when comes in the actual world,he sees that there is no demand for his degree then his eyes open and now he realizes the true character of his institute and the purpose behaind holding the mix parties by his institute.
The parties which are arranged by such institutes from time to time are drugs which are given by these institutes to their students so that they go on sleeping and could not open their eyes and see what is their demand in the market.
I want to say to my friends that ACCA has lost its worth
and now it is time to open up your eyes.
I want to say to my friends who study at skans,PAC,Rise.Alhamd,TABANI Anees Hussain,and any other
to their institute for CAT/ACCA
to put pressure on their institute and link their study at their colleges with the retoration of same exemptions by ICAP as were there in 2000.
I assure you that these institutes can force ICAP to give same exemptions to ACCA students as were there in 2001-2001.
Other wise you dont have to study ACCA/CAT as there is no advantage in doing so.
Be united and get something for you
You have done nothing wrong except that you are from middle class of Pakistan and not that rich that you can afford ICAEW,CICA etc.
ICAP will listen your voice.
YOU have to get a minimum time of two years but you will have to promise that after that time no one will go to ACCA or any other foreign institue.
If some one comes afterword with foreign CA degree,he should be thrown away from Pakistan.
- Junaid80 - 03-09-2011
I want to add few more things -
1- Pakistan's economy is not much big to absorb enoght ACCA becoz our industry is suffering from financial crisis and jobs are limited
. That is why in order to secure these limited job ICAP reduced exepmtion so that they must be in demand.
2- If you see around you will find many ACCA students . Everyone is
doing ACCA like B.Com . Our newspaers are full of ACCA tuitions and B.com tuitions.
3- Every accounting body in the world encourage its our accounting body not foreigh body.
- awaisaftab - 03-09-2011
Service sector play a vital role in United Kingdomâs economy. The education services are also one biggest source of income for United Kingdomâs economy.
According to Wikipedia
âIn 2008 education had a gross value added of around £76.4 billion. In 2007/08 higher education institutions in the UK had a total income of £23.4 billion and employed a total of 169,995 staff.â
See the link
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
It means even in 2008 the income contributed by the higher education institutions of U.K was many time greater than the total current budget of Pakistan.
You will find ads of ACCA on a numerous websites around the web. Even if we talk in worldâs job market prospective there is no such huge demand of professional accountants. Even in U.K job market situation is not so good. In my opinion ACCA is discriminating many accounting bodies of the world. Now CIMA has also come in our education sector and trying to capture education market by offering 5 exemptions to B.Com students. In my opinion our B.Com students do not deserve for 5 exemptions in CIMA. It is only a market penetration strategy of CIMA to capture education market.
Regards,
Awais
- kamranACA - 03-10-2011
)
To me, there is no point in striving for a qualification with an intent to use it as a gateway (in Urdu terms Chor-darwaza) for some other designation eventually. Whichever these are. The people who want to hunt a lion eventually, should not be playing hide and seek game even with the fear of a street dog. I hope no one will take it negatively.
I have been doing so and am again advising the young generation that pls don't go for a gateway with the hopes of exemptions if you really think that such gateway in itself is nothing for you. If you choose a qualification it must be with an intent of having it as a core qualification. If this is not your core target then don't waste your time and resources of your parents in following such illusions.
Choose a qualification on the basis of its merits stand-alone. Be it CA, ACCA, CIMA, ACMA or MBA or whatever else.
And yes, crying for our own incorrect decisions and self-deceptions does not suit PROFESSIONALS. So, we should also be courgeous enough to take the burden of our own decision.
Regards,
- shahidACCA - 03-10-2011
Dear KamranACA, I totaly agree with you that each qualification has their own prestige so it should be selected in accordance with each person goals.
KamranACA please dont think it negative you always use the word choar darwaza for ACCA or any other qualification, I think you know that 1999 Icap has round about 2200 members and with the help of ACCA it reached to 4000 in 2005 (please correct if my figures is wrong), majority of ICAP member use the ACCA and get CA qualfication. so this mean you are indirectly abusing your own institute members.
best regards
- kamranACA - 03-10-2011
Neither ICAP had 2200 members in year 1999 nor did it get 4000 in year 2005. So, even the figures you are quoting are incorrect then why should I go further to give an explanation? Is there a need to go for further analysis? If yes, come back and I will tell you how many ICAP members are ACCAs. Not in a negative sense, rather only to correct your record.
As far as going for additional qualification is concerned; I am the one who always supported it. But for the sake of having exposure, and not for the reason that previous qualification is/was worthless. This becomes weirder when one at the onset knew that the (previous) qualification is worthless. I am not declaring any qualification as worthless; these words are only for those who cry on their decision and who their-selves declare their qualification as merely a gateway or worthless.
Definitely, the more you study and the more you learn, the more exposure with greater volume of diversification you are supposed to get. The ones who qualify one professional exam and then opt for others without worrying for what and which exemptions are available or withdrawn, are the ones who have aptitude and courage. The world is open for the hard worker and ambitious people. But unfortunately these words are not for the ones who plan out short-cuts.
Choosing a qualification MERELY as a gateway while out-rightly targeting someone else is incorrect. And that also becomes objectionable when you have precious and little resources, short time to settle down etc and you eventually cry for your incorrect decision. The decision to use a short-cut or chor darwaza. So, chor darwaza is for those who are caught up in such state of mind.
None of the qualification is a chor-darwaza in itself unless and until someone intends to use it in that fashion.
I believe, ICAP never went to anyone for providing assurance that pls get bala bala designation and we are here to provide you with exemptions. Exemptions and bilateral arrangements are continuing process and are not purely based upon qualitative factors ONLY. There are many other issues to be kept in view in the ever changing world. So, if ICAP has never provided any written assurance, and in case of a number of institutes in the world exemptions do fluctuate with the time, then why you guys are complaining unnecessarily?
Is there any bar on ACCAs to do CA? not at all. Then what is the issue to debate? Merely the greater number of papers as compared to previous ones? This is a joke and does not suit professionals to grouse about. The people who did CA or ACCA in 80s studied a very nominal number of international professional pronouncements; so, should we not start complaining that why we are tested for such a greater number of IFRSs, ISAs and interpretations when earlier on this was not a case??? Definitely not! So the buddy, this is a changing world and you have to move with its circumstances and be adaptable always. Exemptions will keep coming and leaving; so concentrate on what suits you more. If you have to take the challenge then just take it.
ACCA or any other qualification would never be a chor darwaza for the one who considers his decision correct; and who for any other reason or thirst is willing to go for further qualifications, and for doing so, accepts whatever conditions/exemptions/challenges are prevalent and strives for his targets. Such a person is appreciated and welcomed everywhere.
BTW, "shortcut" or "chor darwaza" or even "gateway" are not an abuse in any decent terms.
Regards,
- arsenal.gooner - 03-10-2011
kamran bhai, im always bowled over by your analysis... fantastic stuff. proud to have chartered accountants like you representing our sole body..
- khani8 - 03-11-2011
Arsenal,KamranACA,Junaid...I thank all of you for commenting on this thread.specially Mr Kamran is returning to this forum after a long time.
No questioning of not accepting the views of others,Kamran ACA has every right to hold on his own views,similarly I enjoy the right to keep my own views.
Mr KamranACA has been saying all this stuff for centuries,but what is the effect of this on Pakistani students going towards ACCA in thousands or one can say in LAKHs,(100,000).
The solution which I have discussed is quite unique and it will produce results,
But it is not going to happen as all of these professional,the so called Teaching Institutes and even the ICAP,dont want to change or correct the situation.
ACCA students dont think good future in Pakistan.Right from beginning they thing of going for CA or going to out side of Pakistan.
In this process,Mr KamranACA or any other person is invited to give a solution which take ACCA out of Pakistani student market.
Indian CA institute has kept ACCA and ICAEW out of their market,Pakistani students are equally or one can say more loyal to their country.
But ICAP has to come with some good IDEA and stop just watching the looting of students by ACCA teaching institutes.
- shahidACCA - 03-11-2011
Dear kamranACA, you are right, can you explain why ICAP give reciprocal membership to ICAA and CICA members, these insitute even does not consider ICAP qualification for fulfilling entry requirments.
Actually ICAP has opened the choar darwaza for elite class,now majority of people doing CA from canada, australia and UK, and easily get membership from ICAP..
you reject my figures ok but I think you are well aware about the passing rate of these insitutes.
you always defend the ICAP in different forums, its good, but we expect from you that at least you should raise you voice in ICAP meetings that dont give exemtpion to those insitutes who even dont consider ICAP qualification for entery requirement, another important thing which is also in your kind notice that ICAP even give exemption of membership on exempt qualfication, e-g if any ACCA who get membership from ICAEW through pathway, ICAP recoginse it and give membership, but institute of chartered accountants of australia does not consider for membership.
best regard
- arsenal.gooner - 03-11-2011
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[i]
e-g if any ACCA who get membership from ICAEW through pathway, ICAP recoginse it and give membership,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
icap does not recognize pathway membership of icaew.. only those who have passed icaew final papers (whether that be after claiming exemptions on the basis of acca) are eligible for reciprocal membership.. 5 yr member pathway is not recognized by icap or any other professsional body in the world
Rgds,
PS.. as far as icap giving reciprocal membership to elite chartered accountancy bodies, kamran bhai will say "ITS A MATTER OF POLICY"
- kamranACA - 03-11-2011
Dears
My point is to explain that donât shift the onus of responsibility of your own decision on the shoulders of others. Nobody comes to your door to advise you on your career path; and whatever you choose for yourself is your own vision or your own circumstances.
You did not enter ACCA for the sake that ICAP gave you any assurance for its help, exemptions or whatever; or even for continuity of exemptions in perpetuity. If this holds as truth then grouses for ICAP are unjustified, neither these make sense nor will bring any change. This is a fact which you all know by heart; so please donât try to dump your frustration on the forum. If you will continue, it will make no difference. We have enough debated on CA vs. ACCA so now this discussion is totally on a different facet. Now, I only argue that stand with your decision, your vision, your career planning and take the burden of your failures or successes and donât hold others responsible for the eventual outcome you are blessed with. Either it is good or bad, no debate on it. Whatever it is, it is your very much own.
Further, either 100,000s students are doing ACCA or 1,000,000s; this too makes no point of merit and debate. Our literacy ratio was around 26% which included even those who were merely primary passed people; so in real terms it may not even be 10%. Even if this 26% figure is taken to be literate in real meaning, it means remaining 74% were illiterate. So, majority towards anything does not every-time prove a point. I hope proper inference can be drawn from this connotation. We have B. Comms. (may be) in lacs, but it does not mean they are most popular and well regarded people over the earth when commerce qualification is in focus.
I agree that having and carrying different opinions is every oneâs right; and for that, obviously I cannot cap any oneâs expression of ideas. I can only explain the situation as per my viewpoint. This is what I am doing and have been doing reportedly âfrom centuriesâ.
I enjoy the inquiries about EXMPETIONS given to some other institutes but not to ACCA by the ones who always knew ICAP is their survival and ACCA is a gateway but opted for ACCA for reasons known to them or to ALLAH. We have given exemptions to CICA but not to CPA (USA); we have given exemptions to ICAA but not to CPA (Aus.) so forth and so on. Why this is so is a long but logical story and I can put some ideas for the real inquisitive minds as well. However, a fellow has rightly concluded the matter by saying that this is more of a POLICY MATTER. I just grasp on the fact stated by him and ignore the tone it accompanied. Believe you me this is a fact. Although there is no thirst for it, yet to clarify the matter to your minds I ask, have you ever thought why a struggling ACCA PAK Chapter does not endeavor to provide fullest exemption to ICAP so that such a reciprocal blessing may be done by ICAP? The answer is, this is not as per ACCA GLOBALâs policy. Simple! This is always a matter of policy and not a matter of studentsâ desires. Please concentrate I used the word âstudentâ and not âmemberâ. Clarifying, because again someone can draw incorrect conclusion.
One further point; why all stories of ACCAs are ending up on âwhy ICAP is not providing them exemptionsâ? Please ask this question from your own selves.
Also note that ICAP had never been for elite class; yes, everyone can join it and adopt easier or harder ways to achieve the objective.
I hope this is enough input from me on the theme of this thread. If there would be some concrete and logical questions I would revert. However, I would ignore useless or hilarious chit chat because this is not going to bring in any change for you.
Regards,
- A.O - 03-11-2011
i havent read whole topic
but my simple thought is
no of exemptions given to CA students in ACCA
should be equal to
no of exemptions given to ACCA students in CA
earlier it was not like this
but now we CA students feel comfart on ICAP decision-LOL
sorry if some one has already mentioned it before
- shahidACCA - 03-11-2011
Dear arsenal.gooner, you can confirm from ICAP if you have any doubt, but it is fact, yes you are right no instititue of the world give exemption except ICAP..
Dear KamranACA. Please read my post once again, I am not critizing ICAP that why they reduced exemption for ACCA,even ICAP give nill exemption to ACCA qualification no effect on ACCA. I just want clear you that thing to whom you given the name of "matter of policy" it is totaly choar darwaza which ICAP opened for some their major stakeholders. ICAP can reduce exemption for ACCA but it has no courage to reduce exemptions for ICAA, CICA.
so dear KamranACA if you have logical point then reply otherwise no need to reply with irrelevent long story and lastly that it is matter of policy.
best regards
- shahidACCA - 03-11-2011
yes, everyone can join it and adopt easier or harder ways to achieve the objective. lol
- A.O - 03-11-2011
lagta hay yahan larraiiiii hojani hay
yahan say chalay jana he bahter hay
lol