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10-23-2004, 01:28 AM,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Should I write

Assurance and Business Advisory Services (ABAS)

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>

I don't know whether you should or shouldn't, but if you do then atleast write the correct website link - I think you meant to write & not


10-23-2004, 02:14 AM,
Dear DT from i guess jan 2004 its and not pwcglobal


10-23-2004, 02:21 AM,
o acha....i wrote instead of .com....but its

10-23-2004, 06:45 AM,

as you have rightly said that "Kindly to don’t argue further for the sake of it" i am not going to argue........You are a lucky man/woman!

main reason i m not going to argue with you is the fact that all of your points SOLELY relates to my PERSONALITY. you think i m some kind of a may be right....... i dont give a **** what you think of me

as regards this forum, there are many members on this forum who for your surprise (are SENIOR MEMBERS) have completely different views for me.

i can very easily go through every single point of yours but since they all relate to my personality as analysed by you, i dont see any issue wasting my time over them. it is your assessment - which in ur perception is correct.

however, i would like you to know a couple of things, never on this forum i tried to disrespect any member and never tried to be personal (which you did), I swear its not difficult for me to write something in a similar tone. Come up with some points relevant to the topic and I will show you how I respond.

a friend of mine told me something really good today after the iftaar and i think this is something which i must share with you also, he said something like this

"He who hurts his brothers/friends through is words is not among Muslims"

my friend also quoted a Hadith with reference to the above statement.

i personally try not to hurt others, at the same time i dont want to become a Hypocrat (sometimes people call it etiquettes of discussion).
whatever i believe is my believe and i have all the rights to say whatever i believe, if somebody doesnot agree with me, he or she has equal right to discuss that point and not the PERSONALITY. not only the right to speak but the way to speak.

i m not at all hurt by whatever u said in ur post since you know NOTHING about me. Whether it is my music side or incomplete CMA, you have no clue what prompted me to do that, had you knew it you would never have written that......

i think you got offended by the way i declined your points or you can say the way i raised my disagreement with your views. the only so-called controversial thing i can see in my post is a term CRAP.
i dont know how you interpret this word, i think CRAP means = Rubbish/Poor/Something which is not logical.

if you were HURT by the above term then i must apologise, but your post still remains crap for ME. yes i wrote crap on earlier pages when a member was filling up pages with his crap to disrespect an accounting profession, i tried to make him understand using rational but he seemed NUMB to me and he only reacted when i started writing crap.

one more thing for you, CRAP is a term which has previously been used by other members on this forum and is taken as an ALLOWABLE WORD on this forum.

please have enough guts to write the whole posts and not quote a few lines.......once you do that they will start making sense to sensible people.

my broader view is not just restricted to UK and is not only because i write UK under my name, its because of the earlier CONFRONTATIONS i had where i was explaining my view over ACCAs GLOBAL (not just UK)recognition and my friend was trying to explain everything under Pakistani scenerio. i am sure being working in Pakistan you would acknowledge the difference in perceptions.

i m sure there are other members who have similar broader/global views about the topic and they do come up with logical reasons.....i m not the only one and i never said that.

knowing the UK system with surety is not because of any Superiority Complex but because of the experience, i m sure u would have better assesment of Pakistani scenerio then me. "dishwashing gorras" i dont see any relevance to the above fact.

oh God! i didnt want to write that much.....couldnt stop myself. let me just write a few lines and say good bye to you

i wrote my firms name and department i worked for, i dont see any problem in that, if u can see my first few msgs on the board you will find it in every post of mine but as i started posting more and more msgs i found it a time consuming exercise......there was no other reason behind it.

i would be obliged if you could add a few other posts of mine in your glimpses section where i apologised members incase i hurt them ......i think this humbleness declines all the allegations of any superiority complex which you think i have.

my firend thats the way i am, very straight forward meanwhile trying not to hurt others, if you dont like it..........tough luck!!!

please let me know should you want me to discuss each and every single point in your post.......also please specify the tone....i will be more than happy to respond to it.

Best Regards


dont worry i m not one of those who copy paste a couple of lines and try to make fun of the PERSONALITY.......i m not going to pin point the fact DT raised which depicts your professionlism.

10-23-2004, 05:21 PM,
Hi khan

Well as u rightly said """in the beginning u didn’t wish to write an essay of what I thought of u as a person and ur mind, ur perception and how u react to things and ur temperament. But just the aggression made u write so much again

""oh God! i didnt want to write that much.....couldnt stop myself. """

Actually i personally am not that straight forward. The reason i wrote this all on u was not that u criticized me. I always am willing to accept criticism coz that helps in improving me. It’s the way u say. The fact that a lot of sr members are on ur side doesn’t make u eligible of doing and saying what ever u like in what eva tone. My dear i am also related to this profession for so long now and one of the biggest traits of this profession is not to loose temperament. If u say that i lost my temper, i lost it purposely coz i felt that u are doing it not with me but a lot of other people as u ur self said. I am member of this forum since long and during the past i have always tried to learn things through this. and have never used a word as

" i do not give a * * * * of what u think of me"""""

I DO NOT PERSONNALY FEEL THAT ALL OTHER SR. MEMBERS WHOM U CLAIM TO BE on ur side WOULD LIKE THIS happening on this forum. On the other hand i affirm that i didn’t hit ur personality. It’s the perception and the approach u carry. Plus as u belong to the ACCA family (and i said that i do also) u took it as a retaliation.

Professionally speaking, saying CRAP straight away to someone who has not been ever treated in this way seems to be unethical.

And yes i know that “"He who hurts his brothers/friends through is words is not among Muslims"

so time for u to review this in light as u said that u have an aggressive approach towards expressing views. Coz it’s not that at first place u hurt someone and afterwards considering that u will be checked by other members and posing to be Mr Humble, apologizing them. This humbleness doesn’t make u humble all the way coz humble ppl are not IN A HABBIT of hurting A LOT OF PPL (as u ur self say).

My dear, u have rightly proved that u still are in a lot of anger coz u do not give a **** of what i have said to u but i didn’t say that i do not give a **** to what u said to me...

If the word CRAP is allowed (i doubt though abt its frequent use) that doesn’t make it a pleasant word any way

I apologize if u feel u r pissed off any way. If u are an ACCA member i would recommend u to read the RULE BOOK they provide in free...

And DT just corrected me and i replied to that. Now what assertions are u extracting from this communication of us and yeah once again i say that u do not know abt where i am living then y do u insist abt pakistan, further more i didn’t copy pasted ur words. Its just that

One, u should be too clear and accountable of whateva u say

Second, if u say some thing which u consider will becum a joke in future u should bear it...

I just picked few lines to tell u that U ARE NOT ALWAYS Scattering ROSES my friend..

Any way being one of the old members I initiate the peace and convey that do not consider it as mere retaliation. All other senior members would agree that loosing temper, being too much straight forward and using evocative abusive language is unethical..
Finally to ur statement “”that my friend thats the way i am, very straight forward meanwhile trying not to hurt others, if you don’t like it..........tough luck!!!””””
I affirm u that whenever I will find in these forums that u hurt someone I would definitely convey this to u at least. Coz it not ethical that first hurt someone and then after apologizing, consider that u are clear and humble then.
Meanwhile after I feel that we from now onwards are on a moderate level lets consider a joke. Don’t feel bad its just a joke……
For eg. One of ur client in ur UK, Mr Robbison is not pleased with ur assurance service and he said some thing to u now how will u retaliate expectedly///
Dear Robbinson you think i m some kind of a may be right....... i dont give a **** what you think of me. What u said abt this is CRAP to me.
if you were HURT by the above term then i must apologize, but your views still remains crap for ME. Yes i said crap earlier when a client was filling up pages with his crap to disrespect an accounting professional, i tried to make him understand using rational but he seemed NUMB to me and he only reacted when i started saying crap. oh God! i didnt want to say that much.....couldnt stop myself. let me just say a few lines and then good bye to you my firend Rob thats the way i am, very straight forward meanwhile trying not to hurt others, if you dont like it..........tough luck!!!
I wonder how Mr Rob would retaliate…
I once again say that from now onwards what eve u say to me relating this I would not reply in this regard. I, considering the Holy Month of Ramzan offer my sincere apologies if u are hurt.

Allah Hafiz

10-23-2004, 10:31 PM,
I thought this topic and the forum was for comparing ACCA and CA as qualifications and not the persons holding these qualifications. Since this is a public forum, it would be prudent for all members to restain from mud throwing.
Please be Pakistani accountants and not Pakistani politicians.

Aamer Sikandar
10-23-2004, 11:55 PM,
Dear Aamir

I haven¡¦t started mud throwing, my so called offensive post was relevant to the topic and my friend lost the point.


u said "Any way being one of the old members I initiate the peace and convey that do not consider it as mere retaliation."

do u REALLY intend to have peace¡K¡K.i doubt?

just say once YES you dont want me to retaliate, OR say it loud and clear that NO azeem you must respond to those personal allegations.

the whole issue is around my AGGRESSION....please correct me if i am wrong......i admit - reading crap makes me extremely aggressive.....

my dear friend just look at YOURSELF, you are doing the same thing (but in a pathetic way) which i did when one of our members was using such tone against an accounting qualification. You are retaliating just because you dont like the was i SPEAK, u think i hurt people and i have some kind of Superiority Complex.

you are reascting like me in a poor way because although i get aggressive but i dont get into personalities.......u are teaching me Etiquettes and even referring a RULE BOOK.........does that Rule Book allows you to GO PEROSNAL when you dont have enough MATTER to say on the subject or even when you are trying to teach HOW TO RESPECT???.

just have a look on the folowing quotes, this is when i was still very softy softy responding to mr nascars "quotable quotes"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Quotable quotes bout ACCAs

ACCA is like a person doing a druggist (compounder) course and pretending that he/she will become a doctor.

Well ACCA also requires lots of professional hands on training for example u can complete ur 3 year training by preparing books for a beauty parlor. (true in UK). A STR can be signed by any tom dick and harry, nobody cares.

If ACCA is better or even equal to ACA why do most of the ACCAs opt for CA. Isn¡¦t ACCA enough!!!. Why do very few ACA opt for ACCA. Is it because u don¡¦t need an ACCA after CA.

Wats the minimum starting pay for an ACCA, don¡¦t know ? why there isn¡¦t any market. Fresh CA pays are well defined and very few are jobless if any.

Profession is identified by audits but paper 3.1 audit and assurance services is optional. Meaning a person can be an ACCA without studying audit at an advanced stage.

U r sure of passing ACCA, gr8 so anyone can do it. Gr8 quality na.

My own opinion the problem with ACCAs is that they always consider that they are equal or better that an ACA but they don¡¦t try to prove it in the market. I am sure that an ACA will never promote an ACCA but ACCAs will have to remember that they have to fight to make their own market. If they don¡¦t they can never be equal or better in Pakistan. Its just like ACMAs they can only advertise that they are the best paid in UK. Wat bout Pakistan.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>

My response to the above

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Dear all

to start with, one cannot compare professional qualifications with eachother, they are all good and difficult thats why they are recognised as Professional Qualifications unlike degrees.

now if we are talking in a pakistani scenerio then there is nothing much but a professional prejudice and tussel between all the the pak prof qualifications, CA is always on the winning end mostly because of our monetary policies backed by our Finance Ministers who usually happen to be CAs. Personally i give credit to ICAP for establishing such an atmosphere where no employer thinks of other than CAs. as far as other countries are concerned (being living abroad i can say this with absolute surety) ACCA is considered at par with CA or CMA.
now all i can say that either the whole world is stupid or only pakistani employers specially CAs (most intelligent creature) are genius. people who believe in later part of my sentence need a good psychatrist to unfold there ego problem of superiority.

i do believe CA (pak) is difficult to complete so as CMA (pak) but this is not because it is tough or it encompasses something which is not taught in ACCA, it is only because of the UNFAIR examination system of these institutes, have u ever considered why examination sheets are Graded as A, B , C or whatever, why dont they publish the exact marks as ACCA and other professional qualifications do. if u never thought of that before.....think now. secondly the the stage (part) pass system makes CA and CMA more difficult to do unlike ACCA where u can pass individual papers.

coming back to who is genius who is not, u cannot judge it by the qualification one has, it all depends upon the person itself, i know many CAs who know nothing what they do, i know many ACCAs who are far better than anyother prof qualified this declines the argument.

yes CAs do have a edge over others mainly because of the training they get while doing their articles, which is more important than the book knowledge which CMA (pak) students have more than anyone i have seen.

i rest my case with the forum, and would request members of this group to think rationally, talking high can never make u superior unless u prove it.

Kind Regards

Azeem Shah Khan
Audit and Assuarance
Hardy & Company
Chartered Accountants
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>

my above response is not new to you, as you quoted some of the lines from it in ur earlier post which were not making sense. I have enough guts to post the whole post here again on this forum. I am not ashamed of my earlier posts nor can anyone make fun of them if POSTED COMPLETELY.

this is the ONLY forum where i have been "confronted" in such a way, because some members donot deserve to be treated in an ethical way.

i never apologised coz of any THREAT from the senior members, nor i seek their support as SOME of us do. Never on this forum any SENIOR MEMBER criticized me of my aggressive attitude SO you are the only ¡§GENTLEMAN¡¨. i infact do positive discussions with them in a HIGHLY PROFESSIONAL way not by throwing mud on them just because I think I cant handle them - they are too aggressive. thats why they dont take me the way you do........copy/pasting few lines of my posts where i was infact condenming the use of OFFENSIVE language ¡V Now you proving them as my sign of DISRESPECT shows your Professional Etiquette¡K¡K..perhaps go and read that Rule Book yourself.

yes i dont give a **** to what you THINK of me. i WILL use even stronger words if i believe you are going (and saying not only thinking) personal and i tell u one more thing I DONT NEED YOUR PERMISSION or SENIORS APPROVAL to do that.

Getting personal is fine¡K¡K¡K..using the word crap is a crime¡K¡K¡Kwakeup my friend!

CRAP is a word which has previously been used by other member in the same forum.......i m not sure about the word PISSED OFF though.

you call yourself NOT AS STRAIGHT FORWARD or AGGRESSIVE and then write essays in such a tone..............what a gentleman¡K..

now i call myself AGGRESSIVE and STRAIGHT FORWARD......what do you expect me to write?????????? ¡§Scattering ROSES¡¨

my friend we live in a world where YOU must be able to counter anyone, i think my style will prove to be an excellent learning point for juniors when they will get a job and find an even more AGGRESSIVE senior.

As regards my client relations are concerned, Allhumdulillah I have got very good relations with all of them and infact I have been commended by many for having a STRAIGHT APPROACH ¡K¡K¡K..

Your references to ICAP and SECP in your post made me believe you are in Pakistan

Your are upset because of my approach, and I am upset by yours¡K¡K... You believe I disrespect other members I believe you disrespect other members by getting personal...¡K

I m not going to apologise coz you will take it as SYMPATHY gainer¡K¡K¡K¡K.not to mention your words "Any way being one of the old members I initiate the peace and convey that do not consider it as mere retaliation."

Yes you are a peace lover¡K¡K..i can see that.

Come on yaar ļ

Best Regards


10-24-2004, 02:19 AM,
This is in response to XBRL's invitation for other members on the forum to comment on Azeem.... I do not know Azeem personally but only through this forum and another one where we first started talking on an issue. Despite the fact that I and Azeem do not agree on some political issues I have found him to be a very professional person a gentleman if I may say so my self. His arguments are well thought out and never ever personal. I have seen people worst of than You XBRL and he has kept his cool. It is unfortunate that I see people coming on this forum and bragging like a village idiot with no semblance of being educated or civil at all.

In XBRL's case I'd say, judging on his post here to be some one in that category. I see that he has no information about himslef on the forum apart from some initials and then has the guts to go about picking personal information of other members and twisting it to his own manner.

Azeem, I am all behind you and have taken XBRL's comment on a personal footing as well.

Does XBRL have the guts to come out in the open and tell us about himself... I'd like to know the profile about him, it would interest me since I am an avid reader of people's character. Then again little that has been posted by XBRL here tells us tons about him.

"Allah does not change the state of people unless they change what is within themselves" Quran 1311
10-25-2004, 02:32 AM,

your response is eagerly awaited.

Kind Regards


10-25-2004, 03:16 AM,
Dear Mr. Azeem and XBRL,
I found both of you very informative members of the forum, every body posesses some good qualities and some bad (there are exceptions like me who only posses good qualities <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)
yes I have noticed sometime the behaviour of Mr. Khan very criticising, but I didnt mentioned him the same, like XBRL did so, as in these kind of forums if somebody doesnt agrees with you, you should try to convince him by your thoughts and evidences, not by the offensive behaviours. As we are not here to get gold medals by our postings. We are just here to share information and knowledge, and personal opinions, It is not necessary the everybody must agree with your point of view, as i have said earlier in another topic, that it is impossible that there are 2 persons and have same point of view.
Now the discussion must be stopped here and discussion on the topic "ACCA vs CA" should be continued.

10-25-2004, 03:58 AM,
Dear smraza

the question is not about disagreement/criticism, as u said "it is impossible that there are 2 persons and have same point of view".

i completely agree with you with the OBJECTIVE of this fourm i.e discussing issues in a logical way.

u also referred to my aggressive BEHAVIOUR over this forum, i again agree with u, i respond aggresively but with logics......and without getting personal.

i m not here to win any GOLD MEDAL, to tell u the truth i m here to posting my views in an aggresive way even help me getting the MOST "sense" out of the other person......

Best Regards


10-27-2004, 04:38 PM,
I May not like what Azeem has to post sometimes.. but it does follow a certain logic, which I must say most of the times part of the post.
10-27-2004, 11:22 PM,
I think thats a fair comment. I also think that is the reason we are here to discuss all those issues.

Kind Regards


10-28-2004, 02:54 AM,
O My
i was outta town and see what happened

okk well mr azeem aap ghussaa kargaeee
any not display sympathy and be as u are
we all no what pracs is to azeem ...pracs did i invite for the comments...any way thanks budyy for the support,,

ok guys i once again propose peaceful strategy to this Kashmir Issue....Mr Manmohan azeem consider kashmir,,,,

Allah waris....

10-28-2004, 02:58 AM,

so where is that mr bechara acca and aca
hey guys we are sorry

ok azeem tell me what is the market of acca in us and in europe other than uk


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