05-24-2007, 08:05 PM
Dears,
Pracs has given a very good clarification for the whole story being discussed.
I again mention that I never wanted to be appologetic and dont want other muslims to be in front of jews or christians for what we have done in past. I also mentioned in an earlier post that Westren people have doen so much. We need to study the history of india at least. Poor farmers of india were looted by their representatives. Forced labour has been taken in so many areas of the world and every thing has been done by them not only with muslims but with so many other nations.
However, muslims cannot do wrong just becoz the others have done so. If this has to be done in similar fashion then why muslims/islam is needed in the world? Let every one do whatever he/she wants. Dont intervene with God's messages. If we have to convey God's messages then we must behave better than others. If others attacked (without any reason) on various countries to expand their power and to rob the innocents, it must not become a reason for muslims to penetrate others lands, snatch their properties, pick up their girls and do all injustice. Believe you me this has happened. Some friends may feel pain with these words but we muslims have done all this in past.
I do not have any objection on personal character of Mehmood Ghaznavi. But can any one explain that when we have destroyed the worship places of Hindus when we were in power then why we should be in pain if they demolish the babri mosque when they are in power. When this happned so many MANDDERS were destroyed in Pakistan. I have seen with my eyes. What was the fault of hindus who are Pakistanies and who pay tax (JAZIA) to our government. This is the utmost depth of one's character and behaviour. We cant go more down than it.
I just want to explain that so much has been rooted by our elders which is being harvested by us. I was also in pain when Babari Mosque incident happened but I even at that time felt that it is a reaction. And this happens when power balance changes.
Since every one has done so much, I personally dont have much objections personally on the doings of muslim attackers. However, I am only of the view that whenever HAQ was in power it has done the similar things as are expeted from BATIL at the time of being in power. I have firm belief on it. I dont include the Khulfa-e-Rashideen's period in above analysis. They never did anything for their benefits.
Further, there remained so many HAQs in muslims and so many BATILs at the same time. Even some muslim sects remained BATIL for other sects. This still happens. So my point is that we cant and should not crudly define on human basis HAQ and BATIL. These words have been used in HOLY QURAN becoz it is KALAM-e-ELLAHI.
If we wud fight each other or make big exclaimations of being on HAQ and declare all others or some of others or a few of opponent idealogy people as BATIL then it would be quite unfair. These words HAQ and BATIL were used here by some friend pin pointing me and Pracs, therefore, I wanted to explain the HAQ and BATIL and its doings in past.
Mr. Pracs has mentioned in his message
"I think point one should be quite clear beyond any doubt, as Kamran has pointed out the Caliphs were after all humans, not prophets and to err is human."
I take this oppurtunity to explain/correct that all Prophets were Humans. I quote the Hadees where Prophet PBUH said that "I am a human like you all, but the difference is that I concieve WAHI from God." {Ana Bashar-o-Mislokum Yooha Illayah}....
So prophets were also humans but they were not subject to errors as they were directly guided by Allah. I think Mr. Pracs was also of same view and it was just a typing issue.
Best regards,
Kamran.
Pracs has given a very good clarification for the whole story being discussed.
I again mention that I never wanted to be appologetic and dont want other muslims to be in front of jews or christians for what we have done in past. I also mentioned in an earlier post that Westren people have doen so much. We need to study the history of india at least. Poor farmers of india were looted by their representatives. Forced labour has been taken in so many areas of the world and every thing has been done by them not only with muslims but with so many other nations.
However, muslims cannot do wrong just becoz the others have done so. If this has to be done in similar fashion then why muslims/islam is needed in the world? Let every one do whatever he/she wants. Dont intervene with God's messages. If we have to convey God's messages then we must behave better than others. If others attacked (without any reason) on various countries to expand their power and to rob the innocents, it must not become a reason for muslims to penetrate others lands, snatch their properties, pick up their girls and do all injustice. Believe you me this has happened. Some friends may feel pain with these words but we muslims have done all this in past.
I do not have any objection on personal character of Mehmood Ghaznavi. But can any one explain that when we have destroyed the worship places of Hindus when we were in power then why we should be in pain if they demolish the babri mosque when they are in power. When this happned so many MANDDERS were destroyed in Pakistan. I have seen with my eyes. What was the fault of hindus who are Pakistanies and who pay tax (JAZIA) to our government. This is the utmost depth of one's character and behaviour. We cant go more down than it.
I just want to explain that so much has been rooted by our elders which is being harvested by us. I was also in pain when Babari Mosque incident happened but I even at that time felt that it is a reaction. And this happens when power balance changes.
Since every one has done so much, I personally dont have much objections personally on the doings of muslim attackers. However, I am only of the view that whenever HAQ was in power it has done the similar things as are expeted from BATIL at the time of being in power. I have firm belief on it. I dont include the Khulfa-e-Rashideen's period in above analysis. They never did anything for their benefits.
Further, there remained so many HAQs in muslims and so many BATILs at the same time. Even some muslim sects remained BATIL for other sects. This still happens. So my point is that we cant and should not crudly define on human basis HAQ and BATIL. These words have been used in HOLY QURAN becoz it is KALAM-e-ELLAHI.
If we wud fight each other or make big exclaimations of being on HAQ and declare all others or some of others or a few of opponent idealogy people as BATIL then it would be quite unfair. These words HAQ and BATIL were used here by some friend pin pointing me and Pracs, therefore, I wanted to explain the HAQ and BATIL and its doings in past.
Mr. Pracs has mentioned in his message
"I think point one should be quite clear beyond any doubt, as Kamran has pointed out the Caliphs were after all humans, not prophets and to err is human."
I take this oppurtunity to explain/correct that all Prophets were Humans. I quote the Hadees where Prophet PBUH said that "I am a human like you all, but the difference is that I concieve WAHI from God." {Ana Bashar-o-Mislokum Yooha Illayah}....
So prophets were also humans but they were not subject to errors as they were directly guided by Allah. I think Mr. Pracs was also of same view and it was just a typing issue.
Best regards,
Kamran.