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Info. abt Investment Banking
12-30-2003, 08:45 AM,
#1
Info. abt Investment Banking
Hi folks!

Could any body tell me about a forum where I could discuss questions regarding the Investment Banking arena?

Do Investment Banks in Pakistan also require MBA qualification as a pre-requisite for graduate entry positions or would they be equally willing to consider someone bachelors qualified from the London School of Economics and who has interned with big US investment banks (JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley)?

What sort of business / activities the investment banks in Pakistan do?

What is a typical remuneration package for an entry level professionals in Corporate Finance, Equities, derivative sales / trading, and Institutional Research?

Looking forward to hear soon.

AHSAN


Reply
01-01-2004, 01:05 AM,
#2
 

An MBA in Finance would certainly be a plus point but there are other degrees and qualifications which are accepted, Actuary and CFA being one of them.

Reply
01-01-2004, 05:42 AM,
#3
 
Hi DT

MBA and/or CFA are the most preferable, but internships with good financial institutions and bachelors from reputed business schools are also accepted in Pakistani Investment banks.

As for starting remuneration packages, i would say something in the vicinity of 25k+ for bachelors (with good internships) and around 32-35k (maybe more) for an MBA. And if you've done your CFA, then you can demand much, much more than this. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
Reply
01-01-2004, 08:31 AM,
#4
 
Cheers Guybrush and Sumaaan, for your endeavours in taking time and answering my queries. However, I have now got few questions relating to what has been said in your answers.

Firstly, I took the impression that both of you were quite keen on having done a MBA and/or CFA programme. I appreciate your viewpoints, but the matter of fact is that for MBA, reputed business schools do not take on graduates until unless they have at least 2-5 years of good work experience. Secondly, leading to this point yet again, I think that the MBA should only be required at the Associate level, which is about 2-3 years after the Analyst programme, a graduate entry position for US/UK banks. So, could you please clarify whether MBA is also a pre-requisite for the starting graduate position in Pakistani Investment Banks?

For the case for CFA, I am also quite certain that its uses are only apparent in the later managerial positions, so how come CFA could be classified as a pre-requisite for graduate entry-level positions?
Further more, you would know that CFA programme takes about 3 years to qualify, so what should an individual do in that 3 years? Is it not much more efficient that you study for CFA whilst you are in the investment-banking arena / job, as then may not only the employer subsidise your expenses / tuition fees etc., but you would certainly get the practical experience? Please comment.

As regard to the actuarial qualifications are concerned Sumaaan, I think most investment banks would hire the expertise from the actuarial consultancy rather than employing a qualified actuary within their mergers & acquisition team. This is surely possible because investment banks would not take risk in training an individual for such a long time, with no security at all, that whether such employee would remain with the firm after qualification or not. This is a perfect example of Free Rider Problem in economics. Please comment as well.

Having said this, I highly appreciate your comments and would definitely take into account, before taking any step.

Happy New Year to all!!

AHSAN





Reply
01-01-2004, 06:37 PM,
#5
 
SALAAM ALL
HI derivativetrader,
u r absolutely right. i have come accross a few foreign universities (specially in UK) tht demand 5+ yrs of experience for joining MBA!!! but things r very different here in pakistan. a masters degree is always prefered, even categorically required for jobs. if u ever happen to view the "classified" section of ne reputed pakistani newsppr, say Daily DAWN (www.dawn.com); u will notice tht a masters degree is a must in more thn 95% cases.
but i m sure tht a bachelors degree from london school of economics n internships of such a high profile will definetly earn u great edge in pakistan. but remember one thing, if u wat 2 persue ur career in pakistan n want prmotions to higher mgmt., thn u WILL have 2 complete ur masters degree as well. n this iz not a prob here, u can join the MBA in evening sessions alongwith the job ... almost all the reputed business schools r offering this facility.
n as far as CFA or ACII etc r concerned, my personal beleive iz tht these professional qualifications really pay u off ... these r world-wide-recognized n accepted n give u extremely thorough insight n grip over ur profession bcoz these qualifications (b it CFA, ACCA, ACII etc) r specifically targetting a particular field n give u all abt it. for eg, CFA will give u A-2-Z knowledge of investment, equity, portfolio mgmt, treasury etc etc etc n CFA can never b challenged on ne grounds abt it ... same is the case with other similar qualifications. on the other hand, the masters/bachelors degrees r very generalized ... it gives u some knowledge abt all dimensions while CFA,ACCA,ACII etc give u all abt one thing. u see, even in MBA, u have to study finance, marketting, human resources etc etc etc even if u wanna b in financal sector!!! n u have just 3 electives to major in (this is the case in pakistan at least, i dont kno abt uk). so i dont think tht just 3 courses will give u as thorough knowledge.
so the bottom line is tht u have graduated ... wel done!!! try ur luck here in akistan if u like. n if u really wanna seek career here, thn u will have to have a masters degree 2 get vertical promotions into higher mgmt. plus, do try for CFA b4 or after ur masters (wht ever suits 2 u) bcoz it will make u the "guru" in ur profession.
i mean, masters for promotion n CFA (or ne related qualification) 2 become the wizard of it.
this is just my opinion ... plz take ur own decision ... u have full right 2 disagree with me

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2 ALL!!!!


FARHAN
Reply
01-01-2004, 09:14 PM,
#6
 
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Cheers Guybrush and Sumaaan, for your endeavours in taking time and answering my queries. However, I have now got few questions relating to what has been said in your answers.

Firstly, I took the impression that both of you were quite keen on having done a MBA and/or CFA programme. I appreciate your viewpoints, but the matter of fact is that for MBA, reputed business schools do not take on graduates until unless they have at least 2-5 years of good work experience. Secondly, leading to this point yet again, I think that the MBA should only be required at the Associate level, which is about 2-3 years after the Analyst programme, a graduate entry position for US/UK banks. So, could you please clarify whether MBA is also a pre-requisite for the starting graduate position in Pakistani Investment Banks?

For the case for CFA, I am also quite certain that its uses are only apparent in the later managerial positions, so how come CFA could be classified as a pre-requisite for graduate entry-level positions?
Further more, you would know that CFA programme takes about 3 years to qualify, so what should an individual do in that 3 years? Is it not much more efficient that you study for CFA whilst you are in the investment-banking arena / job, as then may not only the employer subsidise your expenses / tuition fees etc., but you would certainly get the practical experience? Please comment.

As regard to the actuarial qualifications are concerned Sumaaan, I think most investment banks would hire the expertise from the actuarial consultancy rather than employing a qualified actuary within their mergers & acquisition team. This is surely possible because investment banks would not take risk in training an individual for such a long time, with no security at all, that whether such employee would remain with the firm after qualification or not. This is a perfect example of Free Rider Problem in economics. Please comment as well.

Having said this, I highly appreciate your comments and would definitely take into account, before taking any step.

Happy New Year to all!!

AHSAN

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>

By saying Actuaries, I meant fully qualified ones... It's true that investment banks don't take the risk of training an actuary, insurance firms and actuarial consultancy entities do that... But investment banks however do employ Actuaries on a full-time basis, which is not the scenario in Pakistan (Financial Analysts other than actuaries are usually hired).


One also needs three years of work experience for CFA, which can be done before, during or after CFA.


Edited by - sumaaan on Jan 01 2004 42635 PM
Reply
01-02-2004, 11:09 PM,
#7
 
Farhan, thanks for taking time and adding value comments to my query. Much appreciated!

You said quite rightly that here in the UK, reputed business schools require 5+ years of good work experience for their MBA programmes. And it is also the case here for part-time MBA programmes, which apparently, more professionals take rather than the traditional full-time MBA. Consequently, I appreciate your knowledge and insight into the matter.

However, I am still not convinced with the argument that the 'Entry Level Graduate Positions' in Pakistani Investment Banks require one to have done additional qualifications on top of traditional Bachelors. I am afraid, this is certainly not the case here in the UK and I am also quite sure about the USA as well. Here, they only ask for a good bachelors result consolidated with excellent working qualities / skills. And having said this, the remuneration packages are also one of the best in the sector. In some instances, the starting salary for a Investment Analyst working for top-tier investment bank could be more than a qualified chartered / management accountants and even more than a qualified actuary. No Gimmicks, but the matter of fact!

I think this is because here the western employers regard skills and potential much heavily than the qualifications themselves. Having said this, I do not restrict myself that you do not need qualifications what so ever, but my argument is you need to take qualifications when there is a need for them, rather than take qualifications at the start of your career and then depend on those old theories for the rest of your 30-40 years of career.

The above certainly make sense as well. We all know how the accountancy professions and like wise, investment profession, has changed over the last 10-20 years, so there is always need for an update knowledge.

Please comment.

AHSAN


Reply
01-03-2004, 01:14 AM,
#8
 
<font face='Verdana'>
salaam all
hi derivativetrader, its really heartening tht u found my reply useful.
i totally agree with u tht further studies b persued only whn needed. but here in pakistan, the situation is tht masters degree iz almost virtually a must even for entry level jobs. let me add one more thing, many (almost all) business schools offer their bachelors-degree-holders a direct n uninterrupted entry into masters (MBA) program!!! ie, their BBAs can continue their MBA in a one-go without ne further prob. so u c, how imp a masters degree iz!!! u will hardly find ne job/vacancy tht addresses graduate/BBA degrees. a masters degree in the respective field is explicitly required by the companies. but dont worry abt other additional qualifications like CFA, ACII etc. these things r not compulsory for starting an entry level job. once u r in the business n have gained some 4-5 yrs exposure, thn these CFA becomes a very big plus bt it is not a must for starting job. in pakistan, let me clear u one thing tht CFA or ACII have a bit restricted domain as compared to ACCA, ACA, CIMA, CMA etc. u find CFAs only in financial institutes or some investment sectors. the reason might b tht volume of pakistani business activities is very small as compared to UK/USA/europe. most of the CFAs leave pakistan after completion. i dont discourage u from CFA. bt i just wanna show u the real picture. ur graduation from LSE n ur articleships with such big names will definetly get u good jobs in pakistan. bt remember tht u WILL need masters (MBA etc) for further promotions. u can get enrolled in ne good business school here, they dont need ne work experience at all. u can do it in evening/weekend session alongwith the job. i just wanna tell u tht employers in pakistan r damn conscious abt degrees. they can even prefer an average-GPA-holder-MBA over an excellent-GPA-holder-BBA person!!! plus, they r also conscious abt the institute from where u got ur masters degree!!! a person with just-average-GPA from a good-but-not-best-institute iz refered over a person with 3+GPA from an average-but-not-best-institute even if tht is recognized by the higher education commision n is a degree awarding institute!!! i literally dont wanna degrade pakistan at all but, fortunately or un4tunately, i can dare call spade a spade. the reason for all these weird things might b tht pakistan has very small business activities n ppl here have very limitted opportunities. so the employers demand for more n more n more ... from us 2 get the best cream out of us. these r the ground realities here n no one can deny it. u can confirm it from ne1 else on this forum as well.
so i suggest u tht if u wanna start career in pakistan thn do think seriously abt doing masters. u can postpone ur CFA if u think so bcoz CFA will not b a must in the initial jobs but a masters degree will b a real asset. after ur masters, u can do CFA at ur own pace without ne obligation from ur employers.
by the way, mr. derivativetrader, may i ask u one personal question??? why do u want 2 start ur career in pakistan??? ppl here in pakistan r always busy to quit this country as early as possibly, in the first-available-chance, for ever!!!! so will u let us all know wht do u think abt it n wht ur views r in comming back 2 pakistan??? it shall b valuable for many of us.
in the end, i say it again tht these r just my views n observations, u can disagree with me, i m not a pessimist but not an optimist as well. some other ppl might give u a different answer after "window-dressing" ... so make ur own decision.



</font id='Verdana'>

FARHAN
Reply
01-03-2004, 02:45 AM,
#9
 
Well Farhan.... there are quite a few (me included) who are in this country by choice and are pretty much satisfied with our careers and lives.

And i DO have high aims in life! <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
Reply
01-03-2004, 02:46 AM,
#10
 
Well Farhan.... there are quite a few (me included) who are in this country by choice and are pretty much satisfied with our careers and lives.

And i DO have high aims in life! <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

________________________
Arrrgh... it sure's gonna be mighty rough sailin' today ... mates!
Reply
01-03-2004, 03:38 AM,
#11
 
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<font face='Verdana'>
salaam all
hi derivativetrader, its really heartening tht u found my reply useful.
i totally agree with u tht further studies b persued only whn needed. but here in pakistan, the situation is tht masters degree iz almost virtually a must even for entry level jobs. let me add one more thing, many (almost all) business schools offer their bachelors-degree-holders a direct n uninterrupted entry into masters (MBA) program!!! ie, their BBAs can continue their MBA in a one-go without ne further prob. so u c, how imp a masters degree iz!!! u will hardly find ne job/vacancy tht addresses graduate/BBA degrees. a masters degree in the respective field is explicitly required by the companies. but dont worry abt other additional qualifications like CFA, ACII etc. these things r not compulsory for starting an entry level job. once u r in the business n have gained some 4-5 yrs exposure, thn these CFA becomes a very big plus bt it is not a must for starting job. in pakistan, let me clear u one thing tht CFA or ACII have a bit restricted domain as compared to ACCA, ACA, CIMA, CMA etc. u find CFAs only in financial institutes or some investment sectors. the reason might b tht volume of pakistani business activities is very small as compared to UK/USA/europe. most of the CFAs leave pakistan after completion. i dont discourage u from CFA. bt i just wanna show u the real picture. ur graduation from LSE n ur articleships with such big names will definetly get u good jobs in pakistan. bt remember tht u WILL need masters (MBA etc) for further promotions. u can get enrolled in ne good business school here, they dont need ne work experience at all. u can do it in evening/weekend session alongwith the job. i just wanna tell u tht employers in pakistan r damn conscious abt degrees. they can even prefer an average-GPA-holder-MBA over an excellent-GPA-holder-BBA person!!! plus, they r also conscious abt the institute from where u got ur masters degree!!! a person with just-average-GPA from a good-but-not-best-institute iz refered over a person with 3+GPA from an average-but-not-best-institute even if tht is recognized by the higher education commision n is a degree awarding institute!!! i literally dont wanna degrade pakistan at all but, fortunately or un4tunately, i can dare call spade a spade. the reason for all these weird things might b tht pakistan has very small business activities n ppl here have very limitted opportunities. so the employers demand for more n more n more ... from us 2 get the best cream out of us. these r the ground realities here n no one can deny it. u can confirm it from ne1 else on this forum as well.
so i suggest u tht if u wanna start career in pakistan thn do think seriously abt doing masters. u can postpone ur CFA if u think so bcoz CFA will not b a must in the initial jobs but a masters degree will b a real asset. after ur masters, u can do CFA at ur own pace without ne obligation from ur employers.
by the way, mr. derivativetrader, may i ask u one personal question??? why do u want 2 start ur career in pakistan??? ppl here in pakistan r always busy to quit this country as early as possibly, in the first-available-chance, for ever!!!! so will u let us all know wht do u think abt it n wht ur views r in comming back 2 pakistan??? it shall b valuable for many of us.
in the end, i say it again tht these r just my views n observations, u can disagree with me, i m not a pessimist but not an optimist as well. some other ppl might give u a different answer after "window-dressing" ... so make ur own decision.



</font id='Verdana'>

FARHAN
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>

Totally agree with Farhan...







<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<font face='Verdana'>
However, I am still not convinced with the argument that the 'Entry Level Graduate Positions' in Pakistani Investment Banks require one to have done additional qualifications on top of traditional Bachelors. I am afraid, this is certainly not the case here in the UK and I am also quite sure about the USA as well. Here, they only ask for a good bachelors result consolidated with excellent working qualities / skills. And having said this, the remuneration packages are also one of the best in the sector. In some instances, the starting salary for a Investment Analyst working for top-tier investment bank could be more than a qualified chartered / management accountants and even more than a qualified actuary. No Gimmicks, but the matter of fact!

</font id='Verdana'>

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>

The Investment Sector is an arena of toys where you get to play with a lot of stuff... No doubt the starting salary for an Investment Analyst might be huge, but probably not more than that of an Actuary atleast in USA... Below is the link that justifies my statement...

http//www.beanactuary.com/news/hotjobs.cfm

http//www.beanactuary.com/onthejob/best_job.cfm

However, CFAs definitely have an upper hand in the Investment sector than Actuaries, so you might have been stating according to that.




Edited by - sumaaan on Jan 02 2004 104046 PM
Reply
01-03-2004, 09:23 AM,
#12
 
Sumaaan, thank you for taking time and comment on the subject.

No offence intended, but I feel that you did not get my argument quite right. My argument about the salaries was totally intact to the starting salaries, which I also think does make sense for comparison purposes.

Your quotations and references are inevitably acceptable, but I think you assumed the case for an experienced actuary, as the proposed article was relating to qualified and experienced professionals. What my comparison was, I said in some instances, Investment Analyst’s starting salary could well be higher than a recently qualified actuary. I admit that I did not use the word ‘recently’, which I think created misunderstanding, but that’s what my point related to.
According to the report recently published by the Institute of Actuaries, the starting salary for a recently qualified actuary, averaged over all industries, was just over £41,000 per annum. However, the case that I was referring to, says that I know a person very well, who last year graduated from the LSE and was offered a starting salary of £47,000 per annum for a role in a Mergers & Acquisition team of a top-tier US investment bank. I totally agree that this might well be true for some odd instances, but generally, the starting salaries of analysts for top-tier investment banks in the London are in the region of £36k - £47k. (and these positions only require a BSc and definitely not a MBA or CFA etc). However, for Actuarial trainee with no exemptions, the average starting salary is around £25k, and with BSc Actuarial Science, around £30k.

Secondly, the investment bankers play an imperative role in today’s economies, so how come they are not classified in ‘The Ten Best Jobs’.

AHSAN


Reply
01-03-2004, 06:01 PM,
#13
 
salaam all,
well, i m in a bit confusion, i will b thankful to sumaaan n derivativetrader if they could hlp me. it is abt the comparison of actuarial scientists, CFAs, n ACIIs on the areas of working tht r similar to all of these three.
as far as my limitted knowledge tells me, the main n foremost areas of concern for an actuary are pension funds n insurance. they might b doing other things definetly, but their main area of concern r these two.
if this really is the case thn dont u think tht CFA n ACII get an upper hand over actuary (even CFA over both of these two)??? let me explain why i think so. plz do correct me wherever i m wrong.

as far as insurance is concerned, i think ACII is far more competant thn ne other qualification in the field of insurance. i think tht ACII will b prefered for the jobs of insurance bcoz they know all the stuff abt it. let me admit tht i really dont know much abt ACIIs.

secondly, as far as CFAs r concerned (i read it from the website of www.aimr.org), tht they have a very broad domain to work in. let me quote the percentages of opportunities tht CFAs get. i m copy-pasting it from their website

investment companies/mutual funds 25%
broker dealer/invest banks 19%
investment management councelling firms 14%
banks 13%
consulting firms 06%
insurance companies 05%
others 18%

n according to the website, CFAs can operate at folowing positions, i m copy-pasting it again
Accountant, Actuary, Auditor, Bank Examiner, Bank Lending (corporate),
Business Appraiser, Client Services Manager, Compliance Examiner,
Consultant on Investment Manager, Selection/Investment Policy, Corporate Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Controller(not finance / not investment), Derivatives Analyst, Director of Finance, Director of Mutual Funds, Economist (involved in investment decision-making process), Financial Journalist(Editor/Reporter/Publisher), Financial Planner, Internal Corporate Planning Analyst, Internal Management of Investment Firm, Investment Banking/Corporate, Finance Consultant,
Investment Sales(consultative), Investment Strategy Formulation,
Investor Relations, Management Consultant(excluding personnel),
Marketer(of investment management services, funds,securities,etc.),
Mutual Fund Sales/Trainer, Options/Futures/Commodities Analyst,
Portfolio Administrator, Portfolio Manager, Portfolio Performance Evaluator, Portfolio Strategist, Product/Software Developer (of investment-related products/services), Professor/Instruct(investment, finance, and economics, or non-financial business administration),
Quantitative Investment Analyst, Real Estate Investment Manager,
Risk Analyst(securities related), Securities and Investment Analyst,
Securities Regulation, Securities Trader, Securities Underwriter,
Stockbroker/Registered Representative, Valuator of Closely Held Business, Valuator of Mergers/Acquisitions, Venture Capital Investment(not securities)

so i personally feel tht CFAs can do almost all the things tht actuaries n ACIIs r doing. n tht CFAs r not confined to just pension funds (like actuaries) or insurance sector (like actuaries n ACIIs). they can take on numerous other options as well. i personally respect the professions of Actuaria scientists n ACIIs a lot, n i dont mean to undervalue either of these, bt dont u think tht CFAs encompass the domains of both these two???plus, they have other opportunities as well??? so dont u think tht CFA is a better thing???

plz do comment abt my views. i m sure i can (n will) b wrong on many things. plz do clear me abt it.

FARHAN
Reply
01-03-2004, 08:40 PM,
#14
 
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Sumaaan, thank you for taking time and comment on the subject.

No offence intended, but I feel that you did not get my argument quite right. My argument about the salaries was totally intact to the starting salaries, which I also think does make sense for comparison purposes.

Your quotations and references are inevitably acceptable, but I think you assumed the case for an experienced actuary, as the proposed article was relating to qualified and experienced professionals. What my comparison was, I said in some instances, Investment Analyst’s starting salary could well be higher than a recently qualified actuary. I admit that I did not use the word ‘recently’, which I think created misunderstanding, but that’s what my point related to.
According to the report recently published by the Institute of Actuaries, the starting salary for a recently qualified actuary, averaged over all industries, was just over £41,000 per annum. However, the case that I was referring to, says that I know a person very well, who last year graduated from the LSE and was offered a starting salary of £47,000 per annum for a role in a Mergers & Acquisition team of a top-tier US investment bank. I totally agree that this might well be true for some odd instances, but generally, the starting salaries of analysts for top-tier investment banks in the London are in the region of £36k - £47k. (and these positions only require a BSc and definitely not a MBA or CFA etc). However, for Actuarial trainee with no exemptions, the average starting salary is around £25k, and with BSc Actuarial Science, around £30k.

Secondly, the investment bankers play an imperative role in today’s economies, so how come they are not classified in ‘The Ten Best Jobs’.

AHSAN

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>

As I previously quoted, in the Investment Sector, CFA's have an upper hand than Actuaries so you might be correct with the starting salary in the Investment Sector thing...

As far as why Investment Bankers are not classified in the 'ten best jobs', it might be perhaps because Actuaries, Accountants and Financial Analysts are included in the Investment Bankers domain (I just provided the link for backup of my statement)...

I agree fully that BSc related to Investment Sector itself is enough in the UK, but probably not in Pakistan... Realistically speaking, as mentioned by Farhan, if in Pakistan you don't have a Masters degree, you will always be considered inferior to a Masters degree holder even if you've got your bachelors from a reputed foreign university(although having enormous work experience might be a different case).

Reply
01-03-2004, 08:50 PM,
#15
 
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
salaam all,
well, i m in a bit confusion, i will b thankful to sumaaan n derivativetrader if they could hlp me. it is abt the comparison of actuarial scientists, CFAs, n ACIIs on the areas of working tht r similar to all of these three.
as far as my limitted knowledge tells me, the main n foremost areas of concern for an actuary are pension funds n insurance. they might b doing other things definetly, but their main area of concern r these two.
if this really is the case thn dont u think tht CFA n ACII get an upper hand over actuary (even CFA over both of these two)??? let me explain why i think so. plz do correct me wherever i m wrong.

as far as insurance is concerned, i think ACII is far more competant thn ne other qualification in the field of insurance. i think tht ACII will b prefered for the jobs of insurance bcoz they know all the stuff abt it. let me admit tht i really dont know much abt ACIIs.

secondly, as far as CFAs r concerned (i read it from the website of www.aimr.org), tht they have a very broad domain to work in. let me quote the percentages of opportunities tht CFAs get. i m copy-pasting it from their website

investment companies/mutual funds 25%
broker dealer/invest banks 19%
investment management councelling firms 14%
banks 13%
consulting firms 06%
insurance companies 05%
others 18%

n according to the website, CFAs can operate at folowing positions, i m copy-pasting it again
Accountant, Actuary, Auditor, Bank Examiner, Bank Lending (corporate),
Business Appraiser, Client Services Manager, Compliance Examiner,
Consultant on Investment Manager, Selection/Investment Policy, Corporate Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Controller(not finance / not investment), Derivatives Analyst, Director of Finance, Director of Mutual Funds, Economist (involved in investment decision-making process), Financial Journalist(Editor/Reporter/Publisher), Financial Planner, Internal Corporate Planning Analyst, Internal Management of Investment Firm, Investment Banking/Corporate, Finance Consultant,
Investment Sales(consultative), Investment Strategy Formulation,
Investor Relations, Management Consultant(excluding personnel),
Marketer(of investment management services, funds,securities,etc.),
Mutual Fund Sales/Trainer, Options/Futures/Commodities Analyst,
Portfolio Administrator, Portfolio Manager, Portfolio Performance Evaluator, Portfolio Strategist, Product/Software Developer (of investment-related products/services), Professor/Instruct(investment, finance, and economics, or non-financial business administration),
Quantitative Investment Analyst, Real Estate Investment Manager,
Risk Analyst(securities related), Securities and Investment Analyst,
Securities Regulation, Securities Trader, Securities Underwriter,
Stockbroker/Registered Representative, Valuator of Closely Held Business, Valuator of Mergers/Acquisitions, Venture Capital Investment(not securities)

so i personally feel tht CFAs can do almost all the things tht actuaries n ACIIs r doing. n tht CFAs r not confined to just pension funds (like actuaries) or insurance sector (like actuaries n ACIIs). they can take on numerous other options as well. i personally respect the professions of Actuaria scientists n ACIIs a lot, n i dont mean to undervalue either of these, bt dont u think tht CFAs encompass the domains of both these two???plus, they have other opportunities as well??? so dont u think tht CFA is a better thing???

plz do comment abt my views. i m sure i can (n will) b wrong on many things. plz do clear me abt it.

FARHAN
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The difference between Actuaries, CFAs and ACIIs is quite minor but not negligible... Actuaries basically specialise in Insurance and Pension funds... ACII is a study almost fully directed towards Insurance... However, a person who has attained BSc in Actuarial Sciences is subject to exemptions from all exams of ACII except the last one...

CFAs specialise more in the Investment Sector but with a relatively broader scope than Actuaries... So as I've mentioned it earlier, CFAs therefore have an upper hand here... However, Actuaries and ACII dominate the Insurance arena...

And never underestimate the course of CFA, it is not AT ALL easy... Others might say no professional qualification is easy to attain, but believe me, once you see its course outline, you'd wish you had never thought of doing it.

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