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Info. abt Investment Banking
01-04-2004, 01:56 AM,
#16
 
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salaam all,
many thnx, sumaaan, for this kind hlp. can u plz tell me the website of the ACII ie chartered institute of insurance??? i just wanna probe it for in4mation. thnx again.

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FARHAN
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01-04-2004, 02:04 AM,
#17
 


Chartered Insurance Institute (CII)

http//www.cii.co.uk

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01-04-2004, 10:43 PM,
#18
 


The difference between Actuaries, CFAs and ACIIs is quite minor but not negligible... Actuaries basically specialise in Insurance and Pension funds... ACII is a study almost fully directed towards Insurance... However, a person who has attained BSc in Actuarial Sciences is subject to exemptions from all exams of ACII except the last one...

Sumaaan & Farhan, I have a question for both of you.

When you said, “Actuaries basically specialise in Insurance and Pension funds”, did you mean literally these two are the practice areas for qualified actuaries?

That may well be true for a developing economy, such as Pakistan, but in more developed countries, people do also qualify as Investment and to differentiate Insurance, as General Insurance and Life Insurance Actuaries.

(I know that you did not mean that but I think the newcomers wishing to gain insight into the matter, could be directed in narrow spectrum, if we do not care about the legitimacy of our comments.)

I also think that the work of an actuary and an insurance professional is different and by no means similar.
I think by insurance professionals, we mean people working in the insurance companies and setting premiums for the customers, in technical language, people working for syndicates. I hope you would know that in the Lloyds of London, the biggest insurance place in the world, where all the big syndicates meet together and negotiate the insurance premiums, has only got 2-3 actuaries.

This is because the actuarial practice in the insurance business is not the same as the insurance professionals. The ACII charter, helps you to gain employment in the insurance sector, but the FIA etc statuses of actuaries help you to work for actuarial departments where they research, analyse and predict the future and give syndicates advice about how much their brokers should set a premium.

So, therefore, the work of insurance professionals, who work as insurance under-writers, is different to the insurance actuaries, who work as research kind of people, selling their expertise in the statistical inferences about the data available.

Sumaaan, please comment if I you have concerns about the above statement.

AHSAN



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01-05-2004, 01:26 AM,
#19
 
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>


The difference between Actuaries, CFAs and ACIIs is quite minor but not negligible... Actuaries basically specialise in Insurance and Pension funds... ACII is a study almost fully directed towards Insurance... However, a person who has attained BSc in Actuarial Sciences is subject to exemptions from all exams of ACII except the last one...

Sumaaan & Farhan, I have a question for both of you.

When you said, “Actuaries basically specialise in Insurance and Pension funds”, did you mean literally these two are the practice areas for qualified actuaries?

That may well be true for a developing economy, such as Pakistan, but in more developed countries, people do also qualify as Investment and to differentiate Insurance, as General Insurance and Life Insurance Actuaries.

(I know that you did not mean that but I think the newcomers wishing to gain insight into the matter, could be directed in narrow spectrum, if we do not care about the legitimacy of our comments.)

I also think that the work of an actuary and an insurance professional is different and by no means similar.
I think by insurance professionals, we mean people working in the insurance companies and setting premiums for the customers, in technical language, people working for syndicates. I hope you would know that in the Lloyds of London, the biggest insurance place in the world, where all the big syndicates meet together and negotiate the insurance premiums, has only got 2-3 actuaries.

This is because the actuarial practice in the insurance business is not the same as the insurance professionals. The ACII charter, helps you to gain employment in the insurance sector, but the FIA etc statuses of actuaries help you to work for actuarial departments where they research, analyse and predict the future and give syndicates advice about how much their brokers should set a premium.

So, therefore, the work of insurance professionals, who work as insurance under-writers, is different to the insurance actuaries, who work as research kind of people, selling their expertise in the statistical inferences about the data available.

Sumaaan, please comment if I you have concerns about the above statement.

AHSAN

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" size=2 id=quote>


As in Pakistan where Investment Banking is not a huge sector (although is expanding greatly) as compared to other countries, the work of an Actuary is very limited... This is why its true that CFAs have an upperhand as compared to Actuaries in the Investment sector in Pakistan...

But never would I ever underestimate the potential of Actuaries... They have great prospects in the Investment sector as Actuary itself is the study of 'Risk Management'...

I would like to make a statement where you pointed out about only 2-3 Actuaries being employed in Lloyds of London... With all due respect and no intention to spark an argument, this doesn't show that Actuaries don't specialise mainly in Insurance... I reckon those 2-3 Actuaries would be enough for the entity itself no matter how huge it might be... Secondly, employing Actuaries is extremely expensive... With being able to get the same work done through ACIIs, no company would want to hire Actuaries and pay them almost double than what they pay to ACIIs... So a lot of factors have to be taken into account...

You're correct that the work of ACIIs and Actuaries is different... And I might have hinted towards Actuaries specializing in Insurance, but I never meant to understate their potential in Investment... After all, Actuaries is all about Risk Management.



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01-05-2004, 07:50 AM,
#20
 
Sumaaan, thanks for your comments and were really resourceful.

I hope you did not mind about my argument and I totally agree that since insurance sector requires so much of number crunching, namely the analysis, and require actuary’s statistical inference expertise, as mentioned earlier, therefore, the insurance, life and general, believed to be one of the biggest actuarial destination in the profession. But, as you said quite rightly, that the investment and other actuaries are also doing great job and in some cases, even better prospects for the future.

I am also in full faith with you that the investment sector, in Pakistan, is also intensifying. The evidence is all over the place, for instance, firstly, the KSE index has gone up by (67%) - third fastest growing rate in whole of Asian economies, over the year 2003, with Thailand’s 126% first and India’s BSE Index by 74% second in the league table.
Also, the P/E ratios for the KSE has been one of the highest for the global emerging markets – showing a positive sign of foreign direct and indirect investment into the economy. Plus, we also evidenced the privatisation of HBL recently, so it is inevitable that the investment sector, together with the global recovery, would be heading towards superior time.

However, how come Indian economy always beat us in foreign investment opportunities? Come on, look at the Bombay, there are more foreign investment banks there than, I think, would be in Karachi. For the same reason, their currency is much stronger than ours, as they are having more investment than us. I think we also have lower cost of production, labour, so how come when ever foreign companies looking for investment in South Asia, they tend to prefer India rather than Pakistan.


AHSAN


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01-05-2004, 07:59 AM,
#21
 
Asslam U Alaikum to everyone!

Can anybody tell me good Investment Banks and Financial Advisory or Risk Management entities and what are the recruitment procedure for gradutes or ACCA's there.

Anticipating.



I've learned-
that you can get by on charm for about
fifteen minutes.
After that, you'd better know something.
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01-05-2004, 08:19 AM,
#22
 
Xavier, you can search for investment banks in Pakistan on a search engine.

As I reside in London, therefore, I am regretted to say I would not be able to give you insight into the Pakistan. However, if you want to know about the Financial Sector of London / UK, please don’t hesitate to contact me.

I think, Citigroup, Banc of America, ABN Amro, definitely have investment houses in Pakistan.

If you are enquiring about the investment banks on global scale, then few of the good ones are as under;

Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Lehman Brothers, Barclays Capital, KPMG Consumer Markets etc.

Again, to get further information, regarding the career, opportunities etc, I am sure you would get material insight from visiting the above banks' websites. Again, I think the recruitment policies for investment banks in Pakistan may well be very contradicting to what you would find from the websites of the banks above, with one of being the entry qualification requirements.

AHSAN


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01-05-2004, 08:34 AM,
#23
 
Thnx Ahsan for ur detailed response and advice. I really appreciate ur kindness and eagerness to help others. Continue good work.

My best wishes with u
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01-05-2004, 09:02 AM,
#24
 
Well Xavier, it’s gratifying that you found my insight solicitous. No need to say thanks because we are here to help and share our knowledge on this forum.

AHSAN


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01-06-2004, 01:47 AM,
#25
 
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salaam all
hi derivativetrader, yes u r right in ur opinion abt wht i said abt actuaries n ACII. i agree with ur remarks ... actually, i have very crass n limitted knowledge abt these things. my views were more inspired by pakistani environment, so i said so. otherwise i know tht actuaries have much more to do thn just pension funds n insurance. i also agree wht sumaaan said abt it in pakistan's point of view.
in the end, thnx, sumaaan, for giving me the web-link of ACII.


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FARHAN
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01-06-2004, 05:45 AM,
#26
 
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id=quote>quote<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<font face='Verdana'>
salaam all
hi derivativetrader, yes u r right in ur opinion abt wht i said abt actuaries n ACII. i agree with ur remarks ... actually, i have very crass n limitted knowledge abt these things. my views were more inspired by pakistani environment, so i said so. otherwise i know tht actuaries have much more to do thn just pension funds n insurance. i also agree wht sumaaan said abt it in pakistan's point of view.
in the end, thnx, sumaaan, for giving me the web-link of ACII.


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FARHAN
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Well Farhan, thanks for your writing. And you do not need to underrate your insight, because it's the law of nature that you learn after making mistakes. So, my friend, there is no need to be mortified of your 'little and crass' knowledge, as you said it to be.

AHSAN



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