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ACMA Vs CA
02-03-2009, 09:08 PM,
#16
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by danishayub_76</i>
<br />Hi. Mr. Shahbaz & Awais Aftab.
I think Mr. Shahbaz laughed at the sentence as it contain grammatical and fundamental errors.
"The syllabus of Corporate Laws and Tax Laws of ICMA is more wide than ICAP". It should have been like this" The syllabus of Corporate Laws and Tax Laws of ICMAP is more wider than ICAP's Syllabus".
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Danish bhayee
Thank you for your response but I think that these grammatical errors are acceptable on internet. I strongly believe that Mr Sohrab was laughing on ACMA's and ICMAP.

you make a correction in my sentence but the sentence can also be wtitten under strict grmatical rules as follows
“The syllabus of Corporate Laws and Tax Laws of ICMAP is wider than that of ICAP"
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02-03-2009, 09:20 PM,
#17
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rabia-k</i>
<br />CA's in pak seem to be at war with almost every accounting qualification that exists.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


Rabia,


I once asked you to see who initiates such threads. Do you remember?

Now if some one will laugh on childish grouses you will say he is at war against the other. I wonder how you see this war.

CAs and ACMAs are different disciplines and they have different specializations. ACMAs should not compare theirselves with CAs at all and vice verse. There is no logic in such comparison. CIMAs are among the best management accountants worldover. I don't find Pakistani ACMAs like them, still, Pakistani ACMAs are occupying good positions in public sector.

No body is disgracing ACMAs here at this thread. I don't know why such fears have surrounded others and still you say CA is in war against them.

Were you kidding Rabia?


Regards,


KAMRAN.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ICMA and CA are different disciplines but these are interlinked fields. Some CA's are working as cost auditor and cost accountant and similarly thousands of ACMA's are working as internal auditors and also working with audit firms.

I have also worked with an audit firm and also work as Internal Auditor with two international NGO's
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02-03-2009, 10:27 PM,
#18
 
I would like to bear out Mr. awaisaftab that importance of ACMAs can not be ruled out. They are trained to revive sick industry of a country and provide strategic leadership in Corporate sector. Unfortunately in Pakistan role of Management Accountant has not been understood in its true context. Although their examination system is relatively tough than CIMA. While in UK according to one of the study more than 68% of Managment jobs are occupied by Management Accountants. This growing recongnition of this profession speaks volumes about their importance in the industry. To me this will be the century of Management Accounting Profession
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02-03-2009, 11:48 PM,
#19
 

dear mr kamran i was not kidding at all. please do not take me wrong. i know this thread has not been started by CA of ICAP rather by an ACMA. infact till now the threads that i have gone through, i have hardly come across any "hate" thread that has been started by a CA of ICAP.

the very first statement made by the author"an extensive cold war" gives a wrong impression. i dont know y we all have to compare qualifications in the first place. i hope this thread like the other ridiculous thread "ICAP humiliating itself" will not turn into a ACMA vs CA debate .
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02-03-2009, 11:51 PM,
#20
 
Dear Aftab,

When we talk about specialization, it is different, although both qualifications are related to accountancy and finance.

Somehow ACMAs have been regarded best for the public sector jobs that was not the essense of this qualification. You pick up directory of your members and look at the senior members, most of them would be seen at good positions in public sector.

The areas where ACMAs have to work and provide innovative solutions and remedies is totally unaddressed by them in Pakistan. One cannot say that Pakistani industry does not have such opprtunities or needs. I have been dealing with manufacturing clients for quite some time and I know industry needs specialists people on such fronts who can make the owners understand what is the utility of better costing techniques, standardization, budgetary controls, cost accumulation innovations and management reporting techniques are vital for them. Why specialized people of such field are necessary and how can this all add value to the business.

I am sorry to say but I don't see ACMAs making any such efforts on the areas which need their special attention. Rather we see part qualified people on such jobs. Instead of addressing what is needed ACMA friends are always talking about audits, which may not be wrong, but is not the focal area.

If some one is hurt due to this observation I tender my regrets in advance. There is no war with ACMAs (and even with any other designations). There is no need to do so. I don't know why kids take the things wrongly.


Regards,


KAMRAN.
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02-03-2009, 11:57 PM,
#21
 

Rabia,

Hopefully guys will not repeat it at this thread at least.


Regards,


KAMRAN.
Reply
02-04-2009, 03:05 AM,
#22
 
Rabia

You young little kid impressed by Kamran and defending each other. She is very bussy in keep on sayng sorry to Kamran. Without knowing anything about the history of problems between ICMA and ICAP, history of Problem between ACCA and ICAP. Its ridiculous when ICAP lost case in Pakistani court. Its ridiculous when ICAp says pakistani ACCA UK qualiied and Pakistani ACCA Local qualiied. Its ridiculous when ICAP senior officer lie, its ridiculous when it is said some institute is just association, its ridiculous when someone tried to prove ICAP is recognised everywhere when only 875 members of ICAP works outside pakistan. Its ridiculous when it is said that Indian Ca cannot find jobs in India, its ridiculous when it is said ICAEW is the world number one institute and when ICAEW give peanuts to ICAP, its ridiculous when students are called failure, its ridiculous when it is said CGA canda is prime qualiication in Canada and after finding ACCA has MRA with CGA canda U turn is taken, Its ridiculous when it is said companies can open office in other countries without knowing 50 top companies are the richiest entities in the world, Its ridiculous when it is said its ICAP sucess to sign degrading MOU, its ridiculous when it is said countries like Gahana, its ridiculous when it is said ACCA, CIMA and ICMA are not chartered bodies, its ridiculous when ICAP stole word chatered from UK(ICMA has not stolen word chartered), its ridiculous when someone tries to become father of everyone, its ridiculous when lies are posted on net about ACCA and one has to inform ACCA, its ridiculous when ICAP member has been seen driving min cab in London, its ridiculous when impression is given that ICAP makes laws, its ridiculous when people like Kamran keep on collecting qualiications after qualifications, its ridiculous when he says to others come to Pakistan when he himself interested in collecting information about UAE or Dubai.

One last thing if you are girl it does not mean you will be spared and will be allowed to say whatever you want to say, so be careful next time before posting anything. I have seen post where you are advising people who are Masters, you are even advising people about CFA. GIRL concentrate on your studies and at laest do bachelors.

And Kamran you old man in how many yrs did you qualify as an ACA. You told me I am focussing on her, but in reality you are more interested in answering her queries. He never answered questions which will go against him. Anyway keep on addressing her.He is the only wise man on this site and all others are kids. He beleive ICAP is all in all in pakistan as in many post he said ICAP should give hard time to others.

last thing, i am the person who was offered training contarct leading to membership of ICAEW and ICAI and I did not go for them, People like him long for these institutes memberships.

carry on with your game. Anyway my question is there about exemptions and loosing case in pakistani court. I know answer will not be given as it will show ICAP people like Kamran incapacity to predict things. Anyway ICAP has paper of Presentation therefore ICAP is teaching her students how to speak English, its again ridiculous.

Yes now ICAP needs to defend itself. I do not have plan to reply to ridiculous people like Rabia and Kamran, but if something funny come up I will have to reply.

GIRL keep on studying and saying sorry to everyone.

Khalid
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02-04-2009, 03:08 AM,
#23
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rabia-k</i>
<br />
dear mr kamran i was not kidding at all. please do not take me wrong. i know this thread has not been started by CA of ICAP rather by an ACMA. infact till now the threads that i have gone through, i have hardly come across any "hate" thread that has been started by a CA of ICAP.

the very first statement made by the author"an extensive cold war" gives a wrong impression. i dont know y we all have to compare qualifications in the first place. i hope this thread like the other ridiculous thread "ICAP humiliating itself" will not turn into a ACMA vs CA debate .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am quoting this post as she is habitual of changing her post especially when she cannot defend her words.
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02-04-2009, 07:50 AM,
#24
 
Bhai moron bachi se baat karnay ki tameez sekho. [D] Treat her like you treat your own sister.
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02-04-2009, 07:54 AM,
#25
 
Socho agar hum sub ne tumko spare na kia to tumhara kia hoga. [D]
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02-04-2009, 01:27 PM,
#26
 
I think role of Management Accountant Starts where role of Financial Accountant ends
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02-04-2009, 04:00 PM,
#27
 
dear mr khalid i had expected such a reaction comming from you. and now its here. u seem to be more interested in my apologies than anbody else. y r u so agitated/frustrated?? i aplogize to mr kamran and i will apologize to him again , in many of my posts (when i was a newcommer to this site, ) i have thrown rubbish at him not knowing that i was arguing with a senior infact if i had thrown it at u i would have apologized to you too.
<b>eventhough the difference in opinions between mr kamran and me over ACCA will remain, but limits shouldnt be crossed. </b>
i will change my posts when ever i wish to , u r no one to comment on me for that.i dont see any point in defending my words. i dont like to start hate debates. these kind of debates are useless and will not bring any change to whats happening in a country. u ure self were "hitting ure head to the walls" yesterday.

i dont advice , i am not in a position to, i only give info. in my posts regarding CFA, i have only given links to the CFA website and CFA pakistan. and yes i have asked posters to contact CFA directly rather than seeking advice from a forum.

there are many posts in ure thread "icap humiliating itself" that have valuable info by u and mr toronto boy which i and maybe many others didnt know of too. but the very title is misleading. u r judging a qualification on the basis of the number of exemptions it receives from another quailification. it is more like a kiddish game "WHO GETS THE GREATEST EXEMPTIONS?" the one with the most is the winner, the lesser one is the looser. "GROW UP " please .

ACCA and ICAP are 2 different bodies, there can be no comparison between them. if u knew the difference in the meaning of the word "CHARTERED" between the 2 bodies u wouldnt have initiated such debate in the first place.
Nobody denies that ACCA has greater recognition outside pakistan, but the question is about its future in pakistan. ure yelling on this forum will not change the situation, go to pakistan and try to make a difference there (if u can).

ur above post speaks volumes of ure "sick" mentality. for u saying "sorry" seems more like an ego problem. for u apologizing to someone means getting impressed. carry on with ure useless/endless debates/ideas and try to fool newcommers like me.(but only for sometime).
u dont want reply not because me an mr kamran are ridiculous , but because u have no words/ no facts to defend ureself.
u talk of "sparing" me. i cant help but laugh. i am a kid and some day i will grow up, but it is sad to "see grown up's who r still kids"

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02-04-2009, 04:06 PM,
#28
 
@ shahbaz u had asked for free CFA books online. rather than wasting precious time writing no-sense posts, search google. i searched and found free CFA books/notes/exam material. etc . let us see if u can.
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02-04-2009, 05:15 PM,
#29
 

Khalid,

First of all I must say that Pakistan is already facing so many problems. So I am sorry for asking you (another big problem) to come to Pakistan. I also owe my apologies to people of Pakistan for this reason. I only wrote those sentences because you said you have a plan to come to Pakistan.

Offering apologies or saying sorry does not reduce any one's respect. Islam is based upon forgiving and seeking forgiveness, although Rabia's statements and subsequent apologies are not so severe to be discussed in that backdrop. Even your so-called advanced nations are habitual of using these words because these represent the good social values and manners. I can understand you don't know the social values and manners. You know the ones who don't say sorry even by knowing their faults are given the remarks, "sharam tum ko magar nahi aati". I know you cannot read roman written Urdu.

I don't agree with others who are advising you to behave well with Rabia. They probably don't know you are habitual of dealing with white girls and you may not know what has been asked you to take care of when dealing with the girls. So go ahead and don't spare her. We know your capacity and ability.

In fact the long list of ridiculous things you mentioned does not match this particular word. What matches it correctly is your sick mind and sick thought. You will be seen on the roads like what I have predicted, very soon. You are however seen in that situation on this forum, currently. This prediction is not a baseless creation. Rather, your statements and behavior derives this prediction.

Majority of your statements, like ACCA is third class, ICAP is all in all, ICAP will give hard time to others reflect your fear and frustration. Others don't say most of these things. Keep in mind, however, that ICAP is well positioned when compared to others in Pakistan. Don't take it as "all in all". However, if it is your own fear speaking out then keep on uttering such stuff.

Are you the only person in the world who was offered those contracts? If not, what privilege you feel in advertising it again and again when you failure minded sick person could not even go with that opportunity? If you can understand it's shameful for you instead considering a pride. They offered; you know it's the best, still you sick could not make your life better. I, in an earlier post, said that you have your own way told to which category of ACCA you relate. I know people like you cannot work hard. Your cheerfulness on two days leave/holiday (whatever it was) from office due to snowfall supports this conclusion. Am I wrong?

I asked you to send me details of that so-called case which ICAP has lost in your opinion. I will certainly reply you. However, whoever will go in any litigation, will either win or lose. There is nothing strange in it. Should I search and start posting all those legal cases where ACCA has lost anywhere? Last but not least, if you are having so pride and confidence for being an ACCA, why you are in pain for reduction of exemptions? I, however, don't personally know of which case you are messing about. Let me know details or provide some link so that I may comment on your silly conclusions.

You cannot stop any one from posting here, editing the posts or deleting them, or helping or advising others. These rights are with Admin if you sick mind can understand. I can only say don't talk about the things which are not your headache. However, I cannot stop you as well. I know you are habitual of such insane acts. Your threads show your mentality.

Rabia and Kamran post ridiculous things in your opinion; you said you know it; and then you say you will not reply Rabia and Kamran; but again you said you will reply something funny posted by Rabia and Kamran. What a man you are buddy. You cannot stand on your words and are trying to become a judge of everything.

ICAP may be asking its students to get English skills because it knows that the fathers of its students are not the Farrangies (british). What you want to say contrary to this conclusion? Does somewhere exist any difference to this general understanding? Do you feel speaking English in British or American accent gives more respect and dignity? To my understanding English is a medium to communicate the ideas between the people who don't know other languages. It has preference only because it is used as an international medium. Otherwise it has nothing to do with respect. People of some nations don't speak English at all even if they know it. Does this reduce their respect? What a "cheez" you are buddy?

I am of 32, living a blissful married life and having two kids, and if this is an old age, I am happy with it. Why is it causing pain to you? Should we call you a kid now onwards? If you have doubts for my qualification, keep on having them, who is asking you to the contrary? Only Pracs kicked xxxx xxx by telling you about me. I did not even wish it. If you thought you can't do CA even after getting chance, then you are rightful in raising questions that how others could have done this?

So kid, "don't" keep on studying and "don't" say sorry to any one.



KAMRAN.
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02-04-2009, 05:52 PM,
#30
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kamranACA</i>
<br />Dear Aftab,

When we talk about specialization, it is different, although both qualifications are related to accountancy and finance.

Somehow ACMAs have been regarded best for the public sector jobs that was not the essense of this qualification. You pick up directory of your members and look at the senior members, most of them would be seen at good positions in public sector.

The areas where ACMAs have to work and provide innovative solutions and remedies is totally unaddressed by them in Pakistan. One cannot say that Pakistani industry does not have such opprtunities or needs. I have been dealing with manufacturing clients for quite some time and I know industry needs specialists people on such fronts who can make the owners understand what is the utility of better costing techniques, standardization, budgetary controls, cost accumulation innovations and management reporting techniques are vital for them. Why specialized people of such field are necessary and how can this all add value to the business.

I am sorry to say but I don't see ACMAs making any such efforts on the areas which need their special attention. Rather we see part qualified people on such jobs. Instead of addressing what is needed ACMA friends are always talking about audits, which may not be wrong, but is not the focal area.

If some one is hurt due to this observation I tender my regrets in advance. There is no war with ACMAs (and even with any other designations). There is no need to do so. I don't know why kids take the things wrongly.


Regards,


KAMRAN.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


It is right that the most of old ACMA's were servicing public sector but it is not true for the ACMA's of today. The basic reason of servicing majority of ACMA to public sector was that there were only few industries in the Pakistan. Mr Kamran you say that the basic work of ACMAs in industrial sector and ACMAs don’t doing for formulating cost strategies for industries and are much interested in the Audit.
Are the CA’s working their work correctly? Why the ICAP don’t prepare Accounting Standards for country, to eliminate ambiguities while making accounts, as ICAI have done in INDIA. Almost all big countries have prepared their national accounting standards. Does it also a work of ICMA to prepare national accounting standards??????

But it is a matter of pride for ACMA sthat ICMAP has prepared manual of cost audit beside the manuals of audit for specific industries (textile, cement, and ghee/oil).

Dear can you tell me the books of Accounts, Corporate Law, Tax written by the CA’s. Even the books of tax and corporate laws written by ACMA/FCMA are being taught in various campuses of ICAP

Dear we cannot draw a BLOOD LINE between ACMA's and CA's there are some CA's working as Accounts Manager in many factories. Please contact ICAP and find the directory of your members you will find that many CA's are working in industries. I personally know some CA's working in industries. Similarly a number of ACMA's are working as Internal Auditors, even in many multinational companies. Many ACMA's are also working as auditor with the audit firms

In fact the CA and ACMA are two interrelated fields and both professions can work interchangingly. But the problems arise when CA's degrade ACMA's and undermine them.
In fact after the promulgation of Companies Ordinance 1984, the due importance was given to ACMAs . Before it, under companies Act the behavior of corporate regulating bodies of the country like step mother with ACMA’s. Sections 252 and 254 of Companies Ordinance give the right to ACMA’s to perform Cost Audit and Financial Audit (Private Companies having capital less than Rs 3 millions ). So it is evident that ACMA can perform Audit. Before the promulgation of Companies Ordinance, 1984 the CA had a monopoly. But in eighties the ACMA’s awoke and challenged their monopoly this time they were backed by the Ordinance. The CA’s who were monopolist s and unchallenged in Pakistan cried on this situation and created a battle field for ACMA’s. It is a reality that both ACMA’s and CA’s have similar qualities and skills and they can perform all works related to any field of accounting, audit, tax, corporate law and finance.

Mr Kamran tell me being a CA without any hate does it may not be possible that the volume of business of a Private Ltd Company having share capital less than Rs .3 million cannot be more than a listed public company.

My dear I have said that the attitude of CA’s compelled me to write the above topic.

Please tell me if a finance executive, who is CA, does not appoint an ACMA, even he got highest marks in written test and show very outstanding performance in the interview, only on the basis of hate for ACMA’s. Yes dear I have experienced the above attitude of my senior colleague while appointing a n Assistant Accounts Manager for my company. The said candidate was also very needy. Why was his crime? Why was he slaughtered on the name of profession hate?

Let us all adopt a professional attitude and work for the economic, industrial and agricultural development of Pakistan

Thanks & Regards.

Awais Aftab

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