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ACMA Vs CA
02-19-2009, 01:22 PM,
#61
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Shahbaz</i>
<br />

The syllabus of Corporate Laws and Tax Laws of ICMA is more wide than ICAP.

Hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaa.. wait a minute.... hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahha.....

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agree with u buddy. I mean what the hell I ve just heard (...ok, read), it's hilarious to no end.
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02-19-2009, 01:27 PM,
#62
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by awaisaftab</i>
<br />I think Mr.Saracen has no idea about ICMA. When I was writing the Topic ACMA Vs CA I examined several times whether it is professionalism or against professionalism and ethics but the behavior of CA's compelled me to write the topic.

ACMA is world recognized degree. The syllabus of International Federation of Accountants is being taught in ICMA. CIMA and SMA (Canada) Offer exemptions to ACMA's.

ICAEW has recently entered in an agreement with ACMA for granting exemptions to ACMA's. The details of the contract are available at ICMAP's official website

Awais Aftab

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man o man u just tell me b4 evrythng else which qualification u r involved in, plz
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02-19-2009, 01:41 PM,
#63
 
now after some time, som1 ll cum n say mba's r better than ca's[D]n other ll say acca's r better than ca's[})]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
"Calamities are of two kinds misfortunes to ourselves, and good fortune to others."
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02-19-2009, 02:52 PM,
#64
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kamran_Fasih</i>
<br />There could not be a clear cut answer of this question.

Under certain environment and circumstances ACMA proves better and vice versa.

Environments where ACMA are better than CA
1) Theoretical knowledge of ACMA member is more than CA
2) They are less costly to the organization
3) Cost of achieving membership is low (low educational expenses)
4) Easy admission criteria

Environments where CA are better than ACMA
1) Strong practical knowledge
2) Although accounting knowledge is low but they know how to manage
3) Working as junior, then semi-senior, and senior and finally manger polished them to work as manager right from leaving a good firm after four or five years.
4) CA learn how to tackle the people besides there knowledge
5) Their specialty is auditing of financial record, and ACMA learn a very little about it.

CA is normally preferred because of the following reasons
1) Because CA at top managerial post prefer CA.
2) CA is older than ACMA
3) CA from a reputable firm is different from a CA from unknown firm, people normally compare ACMA with CA from any leading firm
4) There is no apparent discrimination between ACMA
5) ACMA accept low salaries to penetrate in to market

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dear Kamran Fasih,

Your above post did not show that whether u r a CA or ACMA. Let me know about your professional qualification.
But your analysis is neutral.

I am partially agree with you. In one of my post on the topic "Is the scope of CA falling" I have written that ACMA's and ACCA accepts low salaries but I think its a market factor. Like the markets of every thing in job market the prices of services are market driven. Only some years ago CA's were unchallenged and you may say they were monopolist. In late nineties their monopoly was challanged by the ACMA's and in the early years of 21st century many local institution introduced ACCA programe. Buddy, u know that if one of market leader has monopoly in market the new competitor set the prices of its goods or services at lower rate than the existing market leader. I give you example of beverages industry , here I want to mention that I have worked with AMRAT BEVERSAGES, when the amrat cola was launched the prices of Pepsi Cola was almost 50% more than the amrat. But after some time Pepsi cola also reduced the prices of its all products. Also note the example of UPONE and Moblink. In the same way ACMAs ready to work at lower salaries than ACMA's. Mr Fasih,we are here and will remain here and give you guarantee that after some time CA's will also ready to work at lower salaries in order to compete with other rivals. Keep it in mind.

Buddy, I have also written in my one of
above post that CA is a well known degree.

You will be surely surprised that even now some people dont know about ICMA. Many times some people ask from me what are you doing on my reply that I am doing ICMA they reply what is ICMA then I say its a qualification like CA.


Regards,

Awais Aftab
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02-19-2009, 06:11 PM,
#65
 
Dear Awais Aftab and Kamran Fasih,

I will discuss here only the salary issue

Why CA will get more salaries in the market?

It is only because of CA firms, as you aware that ICAP has fixed stipend rates and usually as you grow in firm your stipend will increase.

In almost 99% cases when articleship period completed the student can continue with the firm. The salary structure is different in each firm but they are giving good salary with leaves on each exams.

This will become the threshold level, a student will not join the industry in less what he is currently earning in the firm.

After passage of each interval of time the salaries are increasing in the firms and so the salary demand is also increasing.


Audit firms continuously interact with the clients for auditing /
consulting services. There will be also no objection from the firms if any of the worker join the industry as he will definitely play the marketing officer role for the firm for new businesses and security officer role for the existing businesses.

Usually the students remain in touch with the prospective employer at times of Audit / Consultancy , knowing all the strength and weaknesses of the employer they are able to judge better about the financial prospect of the client. On the other hand employer also knows about the prospective employee and interact with him/her at the time of audit/consultancy.

These interaction will make the employment decision easy for both the parties.

One thing is sure in corporate world, salary is not a matter for ideal/suitable candidate. Company will prefer to offer 25K to known candidate for the business than to offer 10k to unknown candidate for the business.

In this financial crisis also , only those people are terminated who was unable to contribute benefits for the organizations. Like sales people (no new business).

Having a good contacts in the market due to audits / consultancy of various clients and also having the CA at decision making places , its become easy to get job with good salary.

No other profession will guarantee you a good job than CA in Pakistan.
Now about saturation OF CAs or other qualification intervene in the market , it doesnt matter at all. Only matters is the economy of the country.

Previously the banks having two departments Audit and Finance where normally CA are appointed , now the banks having Audit / Finance / Compliance/ Investment / Credit Administration/ Risk management /Inspection/ etc etc. In each of the area CA are welcome to join.

Currently in CAs trend of joining Govt organizations are not found. But Govt departments are also offering good salaries for CAs like Audit & Inspection dept., Statistics Department etc.

With the implementation of Basel II accord in the banking industry the demand of CAs will increase in all the industry , the requirements of financial statements for credit transactions from borrowers, and allocation of rating for each individual borrower in the bank will open the new markets for CAs.


The accounting profession will definitely grow in Pakistan and no doubt the first salary receive by CA in Pakistan will be more than any other professional first salary.

In my opinion there is no comparison between ACMA or ACA both are in different lines and having different structure. An ACA will not negotiate in salary only on the basis that ACMA is also a prospective candidate for the same job and vice versa for an ACMA. Further I personally never seen any situation where ACMA is asking for less salary because of ACA. Both have different market demand and ask for salaries according to that.


Best Regards
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02-19-2009, 08:28 PM,
#66
 
Mr GHK,

How are you I think your ID should be GHQ. Anyhow don't put martial law on accountancy forum. Your writing stile and language is not suited to a CA. Probably u r a student of Module -A. I am ready to wait for your mental growth. Don’t try to enter in the discussion of senior ACMA's and CA's. CA is very tough concentrate on your studies pass all paper up to module D and complete your articles than enter in the discussion of top professional ACMA's and CA's. If you are much interested in the discussion of <b>Elders</b> then adopt professional attitude.

I have noticed you write your comments in short words. Its not practice of professional writers and all the members of forum write their posts in full words. Mind it, its not an ordinary forum or community where any wondering person go and puts his remarks in short words. Its a forum of profession accountants.


Be Professional


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02-19-2009, 08:48 PM,
#67
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GHK</i>
<br />now after some time, som1 ll cum n say mba's r better than ca's[D]n other ll say acca's r better than ca's[})]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
"Calamities are of two kinds misfortunes to ourselves, and good fortune to others."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

you have already said it urself GHK.
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02-19-2009, 09:25 PM,
#68
 

Dears,

I would appreciate if Kamran Fasih can tell us how he concluded that CAs have lesser accounting knowledge. I would also wish to know how much he knows about accounting and to his apprehension what the accounting in fact is? No offence. Just questions!! Mind it; I am not undermining any other qualification.

Awais,

Dear I would appreciate if you tell when Pepsi reduced its prices. Further, what is market share of your Amrat cola so far regardless of whatever price reduction game it played? Furthermore, it would be appreciated if you tell us the date of commencement of business by Amrat Cola so that we may assess how long it has been making such efforts.

I may add one thing. One of my cousins owned a mineral water company with a famous brand name that was among the top quality waters in those days. When he launched his business I asked him what price he was going to fix. He told me "just equal to Nestle". I asked "why, this way you may not get a good market share". He explained, "if I will reduce the price it will show a difference in quality and people will never get attracted to it regardless that our brand is best in quality".

So, to my apprehension, where quality is the objective, one cannot consider the price variance.

Regards,


KAMRAN.
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02-19-2009, 09:32 PM,
#69
 

Awais,

You have given some guarantees to Fasih. Can you tell what are you expected to do if the liability under such guarantees will crystalize?

Do you need some reciprocal guarantees?


Regards,


KAMRAN.
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02-20-2009, 02:22 PM,
#70
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by awaisaftab</i>
<br />Mr GHK,

How are you I think your ID should be GHQ. Anyhow don't put martial law on accountancy forum. Your writing stile and language is not suited to a CA. Probably u r a student of Module -A. I am ready to wait for your mental growth. Don’t try to enter in the discussion of senior ACMA's and CA's. CA is very tough concentrate on your studies <b>pass all paper up to module D</b> and <b>complete your articles </b> than enter in the discussion of top professional ACMA's and CA's. If you are much interested in the discussion of <b>Elders</b> then adopt professional attitude.

I have noticed you write your comments in short words. Its not practice of professional writers and all the members of forum write their <b>posts in full words</b>. Mind it, its not an ordinary forum or community where any wondering person go and puts his remarks in short words. Its a forum of profession accountants.


Be Professional



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Pardon, if I have offended u in any way. Anyways please clarify on GHQ, what does it stand for? and why should I have it as my username.
As for passing module D papers, I have already done so and for completing my articleship, it is just matter of time, InshaAllah, just need your well wishes.
well, please accept my apologies. For you I have given away so much of my time, composing this post.
Also I offer my apologies to others, whom I feel have taken offences from my post, like rabia-k, and everyone who has done the same but not expressed it (yet).
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02-20-2009, 04:00 PM,
#71
 
Dear Kamran,

HOW are you,

Sir I had finished the debate but Fasih's post impressed me. However if you want to give any resiprocal guarantee then you are free to do so but keep it in mind that market forces take time to show change.

Dear Kamran, I am 110% agree with Fasih about his judgement that how CA's get good jobs . I have a frank relateion with a CA finalist, running a consultancy firm and he has helped out many persons for getting jobs. Know a days I am working with an advertising company, badly effected by current economic crunch. I have told such person for searching a job. Within 7 days he has organized my 3 interviews.I thnik its a common practice in audit and consultancy firm.

Unfortunately CA's (even students of module A & B0) know about Big-4 but they don't know about international federation of accountatnts IFA, whose syllabus is being taught in ICMA and ICAP.
If any one were aware of it then he or she never degrade the ACMA's

You say that ACMA's and CA's belong from two different fields. On your this statement I have written you a detailed post.
Under the companies ordinance CA's can conduct Cost Audit although they have not Advance course of cost accounting but why the ACMA's can not conduct the audit of public limited companies while they read advance courses of audit and advance accounting (Whose syllabuses are recommended by IFAC)


Regards,

Awais


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02-20-2009, 04:10 PM,
#72
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by GHK</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by awaisaftab</i>
<br />Mr GHK,

How are you I think your ID should be GHQ. Anyhow don't put martial law on accountancy forum. Your writing stile and language is not suited to a CA. Probably u r a student of Module -A. I am ready to wait for your mental growth. Don’t try to enter in the discussion of senior ACMA's and CA's. CA is very tough concentrate on your studies <b>pass all paper up to module D</b> and <b>complete your articles </b> than enter in the discussion of top professional ACMA's and CA's. If you are much interested in the discussion of <b>Elders</b> then adopt professional attitude.

I have noticed you write your comments in short words. Its not practice of professional writers and all the members of forum write their <b>posts in full words</b>. Mind it, its not an ordinary forum or community where any wondering person go and puts his remarks in short words. Its a forum of profession accountants.


Be Professional



<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Pardon, if I have offended u in any way. Anyways please clarify on GHQ, what does it stand for? and why should I have it as my username.
As for passing module D papers, I have already done so and for completing my articleship, it is just matter of time, InshaAllah, just need your well wishes.
well, please accept my apologies. For you I have given away so much of my time, composing this post.
Also I offer my apologies to others, whom I feel have taken offences from my post, like rabia-k, and everyone who has done the same but not expressed it (yet).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


I also appologise

God bless you

Regards,

Awais
Reply
02-20-2009, 09:49 PM,
#73
 

Awais,

First of all it's a specific paradise's thinking that CA curriculum does not include advanced cost accounting contents. I normally don't talk about curriculums since it's the matter of students and teachers, however, I will appreciate if you can ever elaborate what more advanced you have found out in ACMA. Do try to compare the contents. I don't want to waste my time.

This is however a petty issue.

Rest of every thing has already been discussed.


Regards,


KAMRAN.
Reply
02-21-2009, 09:22 PM,
#74
 

2day I joined accountancy forum. Shy to see that professionals are debating over their professional attainments, all i understanding is points scoring like politician. Instead of wasting time in proving ca's are steps ahead of ACMA's, we should think about our applications and approaches to prove that accountancy profession is above all and inherrit practical approach towards ends.
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02-22-2009, 01:19 AM,
#75
 

Wasim,

You are independent in having whatever opinions you like or develop but can you please explain what do you mean by

"we should think about our applications and approaches to prove that accountancy is above all and inherrit practical approach towards end".

Do you want that instead of comparing accounting qualifications we should start comparing accounting qualifications with others? I mean the words "to prove that accountancy is above all" reflects this message. Or you wanted something different?

If you want just professional discussion then open all the threads in each subforum and try out the topics of your choice. You will certainly get loads of things to concentrate and learn. You said you are new and certainly you have not gone through all the threads and you are giving your opinion abruptly. No problem, go with your opinion but also try to learn the things which the members ask or explain on various threads. May we be able to learn from you as well. This is an ongoing process. Critical debates are one of the aspect and no public forum can go without them. Admin is there to maintain the boundries of criticism, if you can understand. Mind it, you are not the one to define the decoram or limits or topics at this forum. I just point out. Although every one has his right to dissent.

The distressed and misleading posts are replied to clarify the matter for others. Hundreds of people may be visiting this forum and one sided view can create a wrong image to them. So some times it is necessary to keep the furnace hot. Don't mind it. I said it is one of the aspects of the discussions and it has to go with every forum.

Regards,


KAMRAN.
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