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interest and islam
03-12-2009, 08:51 PM,
Dear Kamran,

I was already expecting such an expedite response from your end. Its truly the need of hour that we make up our deficiencies. I agree it’s the world of competition where survival is for the fittest. Muslim societies today still lack education, health and other amenities of life. Even many Muslim countries still have monarch and autocrat rulers and dictators. Muslims countries lack scientific and technological research which is a steering tool in today’s world. It’s the game of power, who ever get it, will rule the world. But If we look into our history non-muslims have enjoyed their better rights under the periods of muslim rulers. Take the example of Muhammad Bin Qasim, during his rule non-muslims were given their due rights. As a result they start entering into Islam.

Anyways my focal point was to institute our personal research about the religion to seek the truth so that our belief on religion may be strengthened.


03-12-2009, 09:26 PM,


I don't carry any argument against the methodologies of persons like Muhammad Bin Qasim. Of course he was at positive pole. We know what we eventually did with him as well. That's our history.

However, in majority of cases this is just because that histroy was mainly written by muslim writers and that was also done under the influence of various muslim kings. I can discuss a lot about our behavior with others but that can attract very severe comments which I wish to avoid.


03-13-2009, 05:11 AM,
Dear amahmood_satti

I would say your post is quite reasonable regarding Islam and Muslims. At the same time, I would like to reply for one of your observation. You wrote, “…until the opponent is defeated or convinced.” At-least this is not the case with me. For me, it is not the matter of defeat or to be convinced by someone, though I can indulge myself in writing un-ending posts, words for words, more logic for contra logic etc. I simply write down my ideas for readers and leave it for their synthesis, and if anyone replies, I give replies only a few times. If I stop replying, it does not mean that I am backing off or convinced, but simply I don’t wanna overstretch the reasons unnecessarily. For example, recently we have seen a thread about an institution in Pakistan, on which writers unnecessarily expanded arguments which ended-up on personal bickering. Personally, I think that thread and arguments should have ended much earlier. For another example, in my view discussion about subjective and qualitative aspects of various accounting associations is not as straight forward as 2 plus 2, and even if it is to someone, neither it triggers the right nor makes dissenting party eligible to pass personal comments. Similarly, in my understanding, Islam and Uswa-e-Hasana does not distinguish between professional discussion and discussion on religion, does not permit to be personalized, and require same humbleness in every aspect of life including professional competition. Therefore, I did not write further on this or other points, because simply to me, it would be arguments, counter arguments, and then further arguments… without end… but surely not defeat or convincing. My intention is to write in “hob-e-Ali” and not in “bughz-e-Moawiyah” (it is a simple Urdu proverb. I hope people would not start a religious debate here and would take it lightly as a proverb). Though I think many people start from first group, and intentionally or un-intentionally, steer away and end-up in second group. For me, neither it is a "sher-e-accounting dangal" nor we are in a wrestling ring.

Regarding above post of FarhanCPA, my impression is still the same as before that he is covering himself behind muslim name user-ID to confuse ordinary and simple muslim minds. There are some reasons to have this impression, for example, he knows enough details to attack Islam but does not understand it. See how many ordinary adult muslims in Pakistan (which is dominantly muslim country) know about the age references (he gave for marriage) belong to which personalities of Islam. Moreover, the exact words and terms he used can easily be found on Indian and other websites where people discuss negatively about Islam. Similarly, he just appeared on the forum and on the whole forum he found only this thread to write his negative remarks about the religion, in his very first post. He could not find any thing else of mutual interest on the whole forum. Interesting…What was his objective? Derogatory remarks, insult, or discussion?

In my view, every one has right to have any faith or no faith or any ideas about other religions or to discuss anything. BUT… the way to approach others should be proper, AND, if other party is agreed to have such discussion. NOT exposing oneself all of a sudden, without prior warning, by unwarranted behavior. Intention of my post was to remind him about the Canadian society’s norms, from where he claims to belong, so he can better understand. I know, people in Pakistan are accustomed to have discussions on any topic, anywhere, everywhere, anytime i.e. on street, in offices, in any gathering. I know Canada is not the end for some, but FarhanCPA was claiming to be from Canada.

I hope readers would take this post positively.

Regarding spending time on posts, yeah, I am seriously thinking these days to reallocate my time on furtherance of personal educational endeavors. So, most likely, you guys would see less activity from my side in near future.


03-13-2009, 03:29 PM,
Dear Toronto_Boy,

I apologize if you feel any wrong with my sentence you quoted. You are a good contributor on this forum and I agree with you that un ending arguments & unjustified criticism should be avoided at the same time positive discussion and difference of opinion is healthy for one’s knowledge. May God help you in your future endeavors but your participation in this forum would be awaited even it is less.

I guess that FarhanCPA is a misguided muslim. His following comment

"if we follow everything soo blindly , then why don't we let our daughters and sisters at age 12 marry to an old guy who is 56? prophet has done it hence it is permissible .. ofcourse we look the other way or make some stupid excuses"

is objectionable and this objection is mostly raised by non-muslims and it is debateable may be at some other forum. Yet I don’t want to pass any futher comments against his post but I only pray for him.
03-13-2009, 06:32 PM,

We see so many guys appearing here at once and start arguing and debating from their post one on any relevant or irrelevant topic. This is a forum for professional and general discussion and to my apprehension whoever is added as a member has a right to post his views provided these are within the cultural norms and conditions of this forum.

No body has to warn us that he is going to discuss any particular topic. No body is obliged to ask for our permission before posting his ideas. Like-wise we are no body to allow or disallow some one to speak here. What we can do is only to reply him with whatever logic we have with us. If we don't want to take the discussion longer it is our will. Similarly if some one wants to discuss till the end it is also the will of members unless intervened by Admin or the topic loses the worth and is abandoned. It is of course not a sher-e-accounting dangal. It is also not a dangal between various origins i.e. third world and some so-called developed honest countries.

We must not call any one Kaafir if he claims to be a muslim. Of course it is not two plus two. All other issues are humanly issues and could be treated as two plus two. Either it is matter of institutions, qualifications, market shares, performance, importance or whatever. We daily see rankings for teams, players, performers and everything. But TAQVA, Faith or Religions have no ranking any where. It's ranking is only made by Allah and we Naoozbillah can never become the judges to replace his authority. We simply ignore it. We are not the leaseholders of any religion or faith. This is between God and human. I always remember the message conveyed by Soorah-e-Feel. AbdulMutlab (God bless him) told Abraha that Ka'ba is Allah's home and he knows better how to keep it safe. I know it was prior to Islam, still, this was the faith which worked and made a historical incident.

Our duty is to convey the message of Allah, convince the others to all extents, provide all logics and eventually leave it to Allah and his Abad. This is what Prophet PBUH told us. One must read the contents of Khutba delivered at Jummah-tul-Widah. He PBUH never ordered to kill any one merely for the reason of being disbeliever. We may not pick up swords unless the conditions warranting it are crystallized.

I agree that we should not call the others indecently. I understand this happens most of the times as reaction of some action. Still, if anywhere this has been done by me or anybody else is incorrect. I never said I am out of any category being criticized.

The person who has issues with any Faith or belief should be given logics. We can also pray for him. It's weird to call him Kaafir. One might have been affected by any websites etc but this does not necessarily make us to call him that he must be a Kaafir since he appeared at once and then disappeared. So many people do the same thing here on so many threads. The one who says he is muslim cannot be declared non-muslim without Ijmah-e-Ummah. This is a rule, if I am wrong let me know. Further, even if we consider the things with other parameters, force cannot be used unless it is warranted and unless the Dawat has been properly given. I wonder if we all are able to convey the Dawat in its real sense. A long discussion could be made on it as well but this topic does not require it.

I wonder if all the muslims around us who are dishonest, bribers, drunker, rapists, ignorant of prayers fasting zakat and other basics of Islam, are declared kaafir by us while we know these acts could not be done by faithfuls and believers. If this has to be done believe you me more than 70 percent would vanish.

We need tolerance on religious matters. Of course these have nothing to do with personal or professional issues.


03-13-2009, 07:11 PM,
We request all members to respect their fellow members and be tolerant of their views. If you find yourself to be in disagreement with their opinions, you have two routes which you should take

a) discuss it like mature people and try to convince them with logic and reason without being disrespectful towards them.

b) ignore them and avoid reading their posts. Trust other members' intelligence as they all can understand the difference between right and wrong.

As also mentioned in another thread, kindly refrain from judging or labeling your fellow members as it is quite disrespectful.
03-14-2009, 02:06 AM,
Dear brother amahmood_satti

You are like my brother, so no need to apologize. In fact, I am thankfull to you to accept my little disagreement. I further thank you to have good wishes for me. I have the same for you.

Best Regards
03-20-2009, 02:59 AM,
God give you happiness
03-27-2009, 08:40 PM,

Lets move this topic back to Islam and Interest. I request Mr. Admin to delete/move the discussion that took over this thread and guide it back to to Islam and Interest.

03-27-2009, 08:42 PM,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rabia-k</i>
<br />dear all i dont know how many of you watch Q,TV (ARY NETWORK). i watch one of its programme regularly . it's hosted by a Mufti and a professor i have repeatedly seen and heard the mufti say that interest (Riba) is haram between muslims but there is no such thing as riba between a muslim and a non muslim. certainly he cant be wrong. but can anyone clarify this further???

anyways there are muslims (ofcourse very few) who on hand find eating pork strictly haram but on the other hand donot understand why alcohol is haram. such muslims can be found in our own country in the arab countries and the west and maybe in other countries too.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


In my point of view interest is Haram whether between two Muslims or between a Muslim and a non-Muslim.

Please quote the time and date of the programme you watched (a link to its video will be highly appreciatred) so that I can comment on it.
05-25-2009, 03:06 PM,
AOA, brother i agree with u.let me expain what is the answer of ur question. actually the question arises why interest is prohibited in islam.ISlam is not against just the word "interest" but its harmful consequences.In enteret system borrower is bound to pay back a predetermeined rate of return to lander regardless of the loss and profit is business. borrowers are bound to pay although they suffer loss. actually that is the reason islam does not allow interest due to that harmful consequence. And in interest free business, borrower is just bound to pay return in only case of profit. because according to quran niether lander and nor borrower are suffer loss. In case of loss, both will contribute according to capital or as per agreement.your investigation about the time value of money is satisfectory and acceptable but it does not as that interest is not prohibited in islam. still interest is prohibited in islam.but due to changing world business system and ever business changing environment and inflation, the worth of today's money is greator then the worth of money tomorrow. that is why there is possiblity of suffer loss to lenders and this is also againt quarn. so th concern i have about the solution of the probless, our olmas are help resposible to study time value of money and suggest this problem to follow quran.
09-03-2009, 03:47 PM,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, san" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by webmoxter</i>
<br />I am sorry for the errors in english

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

i agee with you.... i am am doing my MBA from The Islamia University of bahawalpur... i was also confused about interest .... I read a book name" Islami Moashi Nazam" y Moulana Taqi Usmani....

And no i have no doubt about...
09-03-2009, 04:14 PM,

you have shared with us great information....
if lendor lends his money to anyone there are two ways as you is called "QARAD-E-HASSNA" if you give loan to any needy and get back your original after stipulated time..or when he/she is able to pay
2nd way is that ypu can invest you money but you can not collect interst on for as investment is concerned lende can use the islamic modes of financing, modarba,mosharka.mrabiha, etc..

as the effect of devaluation ...i gree we can use the commodities for valuation....
in case of currency the lender cannot demand the devaluation...if he does so it is interest in my opinion....

10-28-2009, 09:06 PM,
What is the concept of Interest in Islam.
10-28-2009, 11:19 PM,
Hahahaha. Oper itne log lar lar k thak gaye tumko pata hi nahi ?

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