11-19-2007, 10:56 PM
I will come to you latter astute before I think either I or Kamran do not dwell in the real word.
First of all my problem is not similar, I can hear anything against Pakistan, provided its based on some facts and not on pure emotions.
I think Kamran that you must know the difference between a pre-planned match by officials and a fixed match. Evidences might not be there but I can't deny that the matches are not fixed.
Coming to the issue of pre-planned matches. This thing was highlighted during a tour when India was visiting Pakistan some four year back afer a huge gap. The series was being considered as a part of Khair Sagali Muhem. I do have suspicions that (I am saying that because I feel like that) it was a planned series. I mean it was decided that it will be a close contest. But their are no evidence in this regard, however, the way things processed in that series strengthened majority's point of view. If you remember all of the matches didn't make a close contest. Whatsoever, Pakistan lost one day series by 3-2. Now there was the test series, Pakistan lost that also. Now I don't understand why Pakistanis had to decide or what make them to take the decision to loose both forms of game to a weaker team. I mean evidences denying this theory were also there.
After two years Pakistan went to India as was decided. During the meanwhile (these two years) Pakistan played normal cricket and rumours about pre planning were not there. Pakistan won the test series courtesy exquisite performance by Younis Khan. Now it was a six matches one day series and it was as clear as the day of judgement to all of us that it is a planned series at highest level and will result in a 3-3. Pakistan won all four matches after loosing first to. India can never take the risk of deciding such defeat to their arch rivals Pakistan, because their masses are far more idiot than ours and they can't digest a defeat especially agaisnt Pakistan. A world cup match to be abondened there as India was loosing (1996 India vs Srilanka, it was the semi final) and homes of players were burnt in some other incidences. So for every sane mind it is not hard to deduce that this series was not planned at highest level, results totally confute this dogma. Afterthat, Pakistan once again went to India to play a single match at golden jubilee of BCCI. Pakistan won again, and there was a time that Pakistan had a record winning streak of 7 over India. Match fixing issue is very much there but you are the only one I have met that planning of series is a regular process and who thinks matches with teams other than India are planned. Before the start of this series there were rumours that it is also a planned one. If it had been I reckon it should not have been decided after fourth match.
I will like to ask you one question that who have told you that no one wants to play with us? Of course Pakistan is not considered a safe venue by many team, and they are justified for that. But how come no body wants to play with us. It seems that as nobody likes to play with us we have to beg other boards to play with us and in return we let them win. Bhai koi baar karo tou us ke support main koi proof bhi to do....... We as a nation are in habit of making our own facts based on our emotions. But these should be atleast some reasonalbeness.
Are you sure that Naseem Ashraf is or was an army personnel? And how many other army personnel make a part of our cricket board?
I thoroughly laughed while reading your post, either you or I am totally uninformed. Please tell me the name of Pakistani captain who continued to serve in that position for more that 4 years after Imran Khan? Sir there is no such case and you are saying that its our habit. Shoaib Malik is the skipper for almost six months. Before this Inzi continued in this position for some more than 3 years. He was blammed to be a worst captain, however, stat totally said otherwise, I am sure majority are totally unaware that he is among the most successful of Pakistani captains. Before Inzi it was Waqar who remained captain for some more than 2 years (in between Rashid Lateef had been there for a little time). And before that Waseem, Moin, Saeed Anwer, Salim Malik, Ramiz Raja and some others remained captain for some time. So, Pakistani team was blammed to change their captain now and then. And now when the decided to fellow other teams, where captain is continued for quite sometime examples Aussies, Proteas, Kiwis, Lankans. Still criticism........................
Please give me your definition of a good side. I have a lot of concerns regarding Pakistan's team selection and management. But most of what I hear as criticism for Pakistani team is totally rubbish, pre dominantly that we never win. We have won more matches than we lost and our average is better after 2000.
I have no intentions to get into any debate. And after some discussions especially in this part of the forum I had to change my beleif that harmony of opinions can be brought by means of logics. But now I will like to hear some arguments for you, and expect a lot more sanity.
First of all my problem is not similar, I can hear anything against Pakistan, provided its based on some facts and not on pure emotions.
I think Kamran that you must know the difference between a pre-planned match by officials and a fixed match. Evidences might not be there but I can't deny that the matches are not fixed.
Coming to the issue of pre-planned matches. This thing was highlighted during a tour when India was visiting Pakistan some four year back afer a huge gap. The series was being considered as a part of Khair Sagali Muhem. I do have suspicions that (I am saying that because I feel like that) it was a planned series. I mean it was decided that it will be a close contest. But their are no evidence in this regard, however, the way things processed in that series strengthened majority's point of view. If you remember all of the matches didn't make a close contest. Whatsoever, Pakistan lost one day series by 3-2. Now there was the test series, Pakistan lost that also. Now I don't understand why Pakistanis had to decide or what make them to take the decision to loose both forms of game to a weaker team. I mean evidences denying this theory were also there.
After two years Pakistan went to India as was decided. During the meanwhile (these two years) Pakistan played normal cricket and rumours about pre planning were not there. Pakistan won the test series courtesy exquisite performance by Younis Khan. Now it was a six matches one day series and it was as clear as the day of judgement to all of us that it is a planned series at highest level and will result in a 3-3. Pakistan won all four matches after loosing first to. India can never take the risk of deciding such defeat to their arch rivals Pakistan, because their masses are far more idiot than ours and they can't digest a defeat especially agaisnt Pakistan. A world cup match to be abondened there as India was loosing (1996 India vs Srilanka, it was the semi final) and homes of players were burnt in some other incidences. So for every sane mind it is not hard to deduce that this series was not planned at highest level, results totally confute this dogma. Afterthat, Pakistan once again went to India to play a single match at golden jubilee of BCCI. Pakistan won again, and there was a time that Pakistan had a record winning streak of 7 over India. Match fixing issue is very much there but you are the only one I have met that planning of series is a regular process and who thinks matches with teams other than India are planned. Before the start of this series there were rumours that it is also a planned one. If it had been I reckon it should not have been decided after fourth match.
I will like to ask you one question that who have told you that no one wants to play with us? Of course Pakistan is not considered a safe venue by many team, and they are justified for that. But how come no body wants to play with us. It seems that as nobody likes to play with us we have to beg other boards to play with us and in return we let them win. Bhai koi baar karo tou us ke support main koi proof bhi to do....... We as a nation are in habit of making our own facts based on our emotions. But these should be atleast some reasonalbeness.
Are you sure that Naseem Ashraf is or was an army personnel? And how many other army personnel make a part of our cricket board?
I thoroughly laughed while reading your post, either you or I am totally uninformed. Please tell me the name of Pakistani captain who continued to serve in that position for more that 4 years after Imran Khan? Sir there is no such case and you are saying that its our habit. Shoaib Malik is the skipper for almost six months. Before this Inzi continued in this position for some more than 3 years. He was blammed to be a worst captain, however, stat totally said otherwise, I am sure majority are totally unaware that he is among the most successful of Pakistani captains. Before Inzi it was Waqar who remained captain for some more than 2 years (in between Rashid Lateef had been there for a little time). And before that Waseem, Moin, Saeed Anwer, Salim Malik, Ramiz Raja and some others remained captain for some time. So, Pakistani team was blammed to change their captain now and then. And now when the decided to fellow other teams, where captain is continued for quite sometime examples Aussies, Proteas, Kiwis, Lankans. Still criticism........................
Please give me your definition of a good side. I have a lot of concerns regarding Pakistan's team selection and management. But most of what I hear as criticism for Pakistani team is totally rubbish, pre dominantly that we never win. We have won more matches than we lost and our average is better after 2000.
I have no intentions to get into any debate. And after some discussions especially in this part of the forum I had to change my beleif that harmony of opinions can be brought by means of logics. But now I will like to hear some arguments for you, and expect a lot more sanity.