05-12-2008, 05:24 PM
Dear Amir,
Thanks for lesser argument which will lead to concentrate on more important thing.
First of all let me clear your mind about the "prejudice", you typically allege as an atribute of CAs. Your all discussions on every thread of this forum are particularly against CA. This has nothing effect on this esteemed profession. I also don't say that you are prejudiced. In fact what I felt, you want to establish some effectiveness and market worth of your own qualification. This is not wrong but you always adopted a wrong route for doing it.
You know CAs have never been prejudiced with ACCA worldwide. Lots of exemptions given by ICAEW are in front of you. I will discuss Pakistan laters. Lots of other CPA institutes are providing exemptions to ACCA. To this extent ACCA is a good gate way / route qualification. What makes it good to such extent? Only CAs or CPAs? Have you any doubt? Main charterholders are always supporting your ACCA like the parents feed a baby. If you don't agree and feel that ACCA is not a baby (which it is due to its age factor in so many countries) even then the fact that CAs and CPAs have supported it cannot be changed.
In Pakistan, who contributed in increasing the number of ACCA students. There was no ACCA qualified teacher or professional firm available. All the academies and colleges where you learn what to do for ACCA were established by CAs. All tuition providers are CAs. ACCA's enterance in Pakistan was made after taking the consent of ICAP and ICMAP. All jobs in Pakistan's industry are mainly occupied by CAs. In public sector majority is ACMA. Wherever ACCA is getting job, is indirectly with the consent of the members of these institutes. You know, now all jobs published in newspapers, carry ACCA as well in the list of required qualifications. ICAP initially provided material exemptions to ACCAs where only three professional papers were required to be passed by ACCAs and CIMAs to become its members. ......[Restriction in number of exemptions is another long story and is mainly due to two reasons. Firstly, the stuuborn behaviour of your ACCA in providing corresponding exemptions. Secondly, in practice ACCA qualified people could not prove theirselves upto the mark. I am talking about majority of cases. You know when a baby will try to dictate its terms, it will not go a long way in getting affection from the seniors of the field].......... All practising firms are of CAs. Wherever ACCA students are being entertained, they are being entertained by CAs. If you talk about difficulty in getting placements with firms you must keep in mind that in every good firm this difficulty has to be faced. I personally am not in big 4 firms, still, sometimes we get telephonic calls from genies of establishment of our country as reference for some one. This is our culture and doubled with a greater number of capable CA students available to the firms and our responsibility to have CA registered students may create some recruitment problems to ACCAs. But such competition is also faced by CA students. You know how many CA students get seat in big 4 or even in top ten firms.
I personally whenever requested by any ACCA student (either on this forum or otherwise) to guide him on any thing, have never shown any biase or reluctance. You are witness to my behaviour. How can you say I am prejudiced with ACCAs or ICAP is prejudiced with ACCAs? You must have to revisit your analysis.
In fact your association remained failed so far in making a better place for its students / affiliates / members in Pakistan's economy. It has never been the resposnibility of ICAP to do it for you people. In my view any argument against CAs or ICAP calling it biased is nothing else than some immature and un-cultured childish grouses.
CAs no where refrained you people to get positions in Pakistan. As far as public audit practice is concerned, yes of course, it has to be done as per law. ICAP does not make the laws although it may have some role in decision making and developing strategies to be decided and implemented by law makers. Typically the main charterholder for such practice every where remains one or two institutes. There are so many policy matters of every government/country and everything cannot be given in the hands of "east india companies". May be in some point of time (in future) you people would be given some right to start restrictive public practice, but even for that, you will have to wait and your association must have to make stringent efforts.
Still, "practice" does not only mean Audits. Even all the big audit firms feel that their audit departments are in loss and everything which they earn comes from consultancy and advisory. It's a reality. I suggest ACCAs should establish firms and start providing advisory services which may include taxation, corporate affairs, HR consultancies, M&A, transcation structuring and advisory, corporate financing, arranging foreign equity participation for their clients, advising private equity placements, conducting investigations due diligences and forensic audits, financial modeling and business planning, I.T. consultancies, advising on internal controls, procedures, systems and regulations, insolvency and liquidation, official assignies etc etc. There are so many fields. Do you think CAs only work in Audit filed? So you also have a big market to explore. No body is abstaining you. No one is creating hurdles. No one is prejudiced or biased. Develop a courage to do what is the need of the hour.
I hope you may find it helpful in resolving your issues and removing some mis-conceptions.
Regards,
KAMRAN.
Thanks for lesser argument which will lead to concentrate on more important thing.
First of all let me clear your mind about the "prejudice", you typically allege as an atribute of CAs. Your all discussions on every thread of this forum are particularly against CA. This has nothing effect on this esteemed profession. I also don't say that you are prejudiced. In fact what I felt, you want to establish some effectiveness and market worth of your own qualification. This is not wrong but you always adopted a wrong route for doing it.
You know CAs have never been prejudiced with ACCA worldwide. Lots of exemptions given by ICAEW are in front of you. I will discuss Pakistan laters. Lots of other CPA institutes are providing exemptions to ACCA. To this extent ACCA is a good gate way / route qualification. What makes it good to such extent? Only CAs or CPAs? Have you any doubt? Main charterholders are always supporting your ACCA like the parents feed a baby. If you don't agree and feel that ACCA is not a baby (which it is due to its age factor in so many countries) even then the fact that CAs and CPAs have supported it cannot be changed.
In Pakistan, who contributed in increasing the number of ACCA students. There was no ACCA qualified teacher or professional firm available. All the academies and colleges where you learn what to do for ACCA were established by CAs. All tuition providers are CAs. ACCA's enterance in Pakistan was made after taking the consent of ICAP and ICMAP. All jobs in Pakistan's industry are mainly occupied by CAs. In public sector majority is ACMA. Wherever ACCA is getting job, is indirectly with the consent of the members of these institutes. You know, now all jobs published in newspapers, carry ACCA as well in the list of required qualifications. ICAP initially provided material exemptions to ACCAs where only three professional papers were required to be passed by ACCAs and CIMAs to become its members. ......[Restriction in number of exemptions is another long story and is mainly due to two reasons. Firstly, the stuuborn behaviour of your ACCA in providing corresponding exemptions. Secondly, in practice ACCA qualified people could not prove theirselves upto the mark. I am talking about majority of cases. You know when a baby will try to dictate its terms, it will not go a long way in getting affection from the seniors of the field].......... All practising firms are of CAs. Wherever ACCA students are being entertained, they are being entertained by CAs. If you talk about difficulty in getting placements with firms you must keep in mind that in every good firm this difficulty has to be faced. I personally am not in big 4 firms, still, sometimes we get telephonic calls from genies of establishment of our country as reference for some one. This is our culture and doubled with a greater number of capable CA students available to the firms and our responsibility to have CA registered students may create some recruitment problems to ACCAs. But such competition is also faced by CA students. You know how many CA students get seat in big 4 or even in top ten firms.
I personally whenever requested by any ACCA student (either on this forum or otherwise) to guide him on any thing, have never shown any biase or reluctance. You are witness to my behaviour. How can you say I am prejudiced with ACCAs or ICAP is prejudiced with ACCAs? You must have to revisit your analysis.
In fact your association remained failed so far in making a better place for its students / affiliates / members in Pakistan's economy. It has never been the resposnibility of ICAP to do it for you people. In my view any argument against CAs or ICAP calling it biased is nothing else than some immature and un-cultured childish grouses.
CAs no where refrained you people to get positions in Pakistan. As far as public audit practice is concerned, yes of course, it has to be done as per law. ICAP does not make the laws although it may have some role in decision making and developing strategies to be decided and implemented by law makers. Typically the main charterholder for such practice every where remains one or two institutes. There are so many policy matters of every government/country and everything cannot be given in the hands of "east india companies". May be in some point of time (in future) you people would be given some right to start restrictive public practice, but even for that, you will have to wait and your association must have to make stringent efforts.
Still, "practice" does not only mean Audits. Even all the big audit firms feel that their audit departments are in loss and everything which they earn comes from consultancy and advisory. It's a reality. I suggest ACCAs should establish firms and start providing advisory services which may include taxation, corporate affairs, HR consultancies, M&A, transcation structuring and advisory, corporate financing, arranging foreign equity participation for their clients, advising private equity placements, conducting investigations due diligences and forensic audits, financial modeling and business planning, I.T. consultancies, advising on internal controls, procedures, systems and regulations, insolvency and liquidation, official assignies etc etc. There are so many fields. Do you think CAs only work in Audit filed? So you also have a big market to explore. No body is abstaining you. No one is creating hurdles. No one is prejudiced or biased. Develop a courage to do what is the need of the hour.
I hope you may find it helpful in resolving your issues and removing some mis-conceptions.
Regards,
KAMRAN.