02-18-2010, 09:26 PM
Kamran Sab,
I, while initiating the topic, said that Pakistan is an under developed Economy and it would be inappropriate to compare her Economy with UK, USA or any other well developed Countries, in the same manner, ICMAP should not have been compared with CIMA, rather it should have been compared with ICMAI (India), ICMAB (Bangladesh) or ICMAS (Srilanka), which are quite relevant as far as the comparison is concerned, this sounds quite inapt while ICMAP is compared with CIMA, and the same case is applicable when ICAP is compared with ICAEW or ICAS.
I respect your all comments regarding CIMA and I acknowledge that CIMA is quite a prestigious Institute which is recognized all over the world, however, there exists no logic if you simply averred CIMA to be on the upper side as compare to ICMAP as far as Pakistan is concerned, and this seems like comparing ACCA with ICAP in Pakistan, if ACCA cannot / Should not be compared to ICAP in Pakistan, due to the prestige of ICAP in Pakistan then comparing ICMAP with CIMA has no logic, neither theoretically nor it is seen practically that CIMA is being preferred over ICMAP, however, exceptional cases are always prevalent and the same exception is seen where ICAEW / ACCA is preferred over ICAP even in Pakistan. Had ICMAP being less capable to any Management Accountancy bodies of the world then it would not have been provided maximum exemptions by CIMA. You, in my opinion, be well aware with the exemptions being provided by CIMA to ICMAP Members, and this is quite an honorable achievement for Pakistaniâs CMA to be well recognized throughout the world that we are being provided maximum number of CIMAâs papers exemptions.
The above Para has no concerned with the topic being discussed under the said subject, however, clarification was necessary.
Kamran Sab, I again vehement that ICAP and ICMAP are very prestige institutes of Pakistan, neither my basic purpose was to compare each other, which is of no worth since both are different field of specializations, nor I consider these institutes less capable to any other institutes of the world even outside Pakistan, be it ACCA, CIMA, ICAEW, ICAS etc., although I do not possess certificates of ICMAP and ICAP, even though I am almost fully exempted to take any examinations of the two institutes, however, I am of the view that our institutes should be well recognized in the world and should be considered at par with other eminent institutions of the world, rather my basic purpose was to discuss the Cost Audit rights of ICMAP, which is obviously, ICMAPâs negligence so far that it could not incorporated those crucial steps so far which we discussed. However, still Audit Rights should specifically be given to ICMAP rather ICMAP and ICAP.
My Comments regarding Budhay Chartered Accountants have been misapprehend by you, I did not mean what you analyzed, I meant that their position is quite strong on the one hand and ICMAPâs negligence on the audit front, these two factors, specifically later one, are main constrains toward Cost Audit right to be provided to ICMAP specifically.
Those problems, which I discussed, for which your avouchment is evident, can be settled by redacting quite few efforts;
1- Increase in number of Cost and Management Accountants firms again depends on many factors i.e. what revenue measures are available to strengthen these firms? Whether sufficient number of partners is available? Whether Quality professionals and supportive staff are available, whether those resources are available which are required for audit practice and does institute has affiliation from renowned international firms? Answer of these questions is quite sufficient to the question whether to increase number of firms is necessary currently or not.
2- Once ICMAP, through amendment in its act, start mandatory training requirement in the area of costing for its students then they will have those professionals, who have undergone intensive practical training. For this, ICMAP has to start atleast one year training requirement to be made mandatory for its student.
3- As far as the statement of their newly existence in the field is concerned, this will be sorted out once the aforesaid steps are taken.
Kamran Sab, let me tell you with conformity that topics being taught in ICMAP, in the area of Cost and Management Accountancy, are quite sufficient for an individual to be called an expert in the field of Cost/Management Accountancy, which, in my view, requires no modification in the current scenario. On the other hand, those topics, which are being taught in ICAP, are covered in initial first two examinations of ICMAP, which I named, besides some exceptional topics of Management Accounting of ICAP, which are covered in Strategic Financial Management of ICMAP. Let me further clarify that topics of SFM of ICMAP are also quite sufficient as compare to BFD of ICAP.
To achieve 50% passing marks in any subject is no issue at all, had the criteria set by these institute been invariable, Marks achieved by students would have been disclosed in their mark statements, however this is not the case in both of these institute, which is an another issue and has no concern with the topic, however, may be discussed separately should such necessity be arisen.
However, it requires clarification that almost equal number of students takes admission in ICMAP and ICAP in a given time period and with almost same capabilities, since both class of students belongs to the same nation. Similarly, almost equal students should be got through in the examinations of the two institutions, however, ICMAP results indicate around 5% of ICAP results, on the basis of these facts, saying straightaway that ICAP has tough examination criteria as compare to ICMAP sounds illogical. Had it had as much difficulty in ICAP examinations then results would have shown the output of ICMAP more than ICAP. However, the result is contrary to the general rule.
I am again of the view that Cost Audit rights will specifically be given to ICMAP within the next 5 years provided ICMAP put same efforts in this regard.
However, inspite of these facts, I am quite agree with you that a student cannot have required level of knowledge unless theoretically learnt techniques are applied practically. In this specific area ICMAP is reluctant to concentrate, but hopefully, soon this area will be covered.
In the end, I would clarify that I have no affiliation from either of the institutesâ inspite of being relevant from both institutes, however, do not merely prefer ICAP over ICMAP or vice versa based on the above grounds. I also apologize, if due to any reason, contents written above hurt you (Including alleging some Chartered Accountants as âBudhayâ) or any other member.
Thanks for devoting your precious time in going through the post.
Regards,
Ajnabi.
I, while initiating the topic, said that Pakistan is an under developed Economy and it would be inappropriate to compare her Economy with UK, USA or any other well developed Countries, in the same manner, ICMAP should not have been compared with CIMA, rather it should have been compared with ICMAI (India), ICMAB (Bangladesh) or ICMAS (Srilanka), which are quite relevant as far as the comparison is concerned, this sounds quite inapt while ICMAP is compared with CIMA, and the same case is applicable when ICAP is compared with ICAEW or ICAS.
I respect your all comments regarding CIMA and I acknowledge that CIMA is quite a prestigious Institute which is recognized all over the world, however, there exists no logic if you simply averred CIMA to be on the upper side as compare to ICMAP as far as Pakistan is concerned, and this seems like comparing ACCA with ICAP in Pakistan, if ACCA cannot / Should not be compared to ICAP in Pakistan, due to the prestige of ICAP in Pakistan then comparing ICMAP with CIMA has no logic, neither theoretically nor it is seen practically that CIMA is being preferred over ICMAP, however, exceptional cases are always prevalent and the same exception is seen where ICAEW / ACCA is preferred over ICAP even in Pakistan. Had ICMAP being less capable to any Management Accountancy bodies of the world then it would not have been provided maximum exemptions by CIMA. You, in my opinion, be well aware with the exemptions being provided by CIMA to ICMAP Members, and this is quite an honorable achievement for Pakistaniâs CMA to be well recognized throughout the world that we are being provided maximum number of CIMAâs papers exemptions.
The above Para has no concerned with the topic being discussed under the said subject, however, clarification was necessary.
Kamran Sab, I again vehement that ICAP and ICMAP are very prestige institutes of Pakistan, neither my basic purpose was to compare each other, which is of no worth since both are different field of specializations, nor I consider these institutes less capable to any other institutes of the world even outside Pakistan, be it ACCA, CIMA, ICAEW, ICAS etc., although I do not possess certificates of ICMAP and ICAP, even though I am almost fully exempted to take any examinations of the two institutes, however, I am of the view that our institutes should be well recognized in the world and should be considered at par with other eminent institutions of the world, rather my basic purpose was to discuss the Cost Audit rights of ICMAP, which is obviously, ICMAPâs negligence so far that it could not incorporated those crucial steps so far which we discussed. However, still Audit Rights should specifically be given to ICMAP rather ICMAP and ICAP.
My Comments regarding Budhay Chartered Accountants have been misapprehend by you, I did not mean what you analyzed, I meant that their position is quite strong on the one hand and ICMAPâs negligence on the audit front, these two factors, specifically later one, are main constrains toward Cost Audit right to be provided to ICMAP specifically.
Those problems, which I discussed, for which your avouchment is evident, can be settled by redacting quite few efforts;
1- Increase in number of Cost and Management Accountants firms again depends on many factors i.e. what revenue measures are available to strengthen these firms? Whether sufficient number of partners is available? Whether Quality professionals and supportive staff are available, whether those resources are available which are required for audit practice and does institute has affiliation from renowned international firms? Answer of these questions is quite sufficient to the question whether to increase number of firms is necessary currently or not.
2- Once ICMAP, through amendment in its act, start mandatory training requirement in the area of costing for its students then they will have those professionals, who have undergone intensive practical training. For this, ICMAP has to start atleast one year training requirement to be made mandatory for its student.
3- As far as the statement of their newly existence in the field is concerned, this will be sorted out once the aforesaid steps are taken.
Kamran Sab, let me tell you with conformity that topics being taught in ICMAP, in the area of Cost and Management Accountancy, are quite sufficient for an individual to be called an expert in the field of Cost/Management Accountancy, which, in my view, requires no modification in the current scenario. On the other hand, those topics, which are being taught in ICAP, are covered in initial first two examinations of ICMAP, which I named, besides some exceptional topics of Management Accounting of ICAP, which are covered in Strategic Financial Management of ICMAP. Let me further clarify that topics of SFM of ICMAP are also quite sufficient as compare to BFD of ICAP.
To achieve 50% passing marks in any subject is no issue at all, had the criteria set by these institute been invariable, Marks achieved by students would have been disclosed in their mark statements, however this is not the case in both of these institute, which is an another issue and has no concern with the topic, however, may be discussed separately should such necessity be arisen.
However, it requires clarification that almost equal number of students takes admission in ICMAP and ICAP in a given time period and with almost same capabilities, since both class of students belongs to the same nation. Similarly, almost equal students should be got through in the examinations of the two institutions, however, ICMAP results indicate around 5% of ICAP results, on the basis of these facts, saying straightaway that ICAP has tough examination criteria as compare to ICMAP sounds illogical. Had it had as much difficulty in ICAP examinations then results would have shown the output of ICMAP more than ICAP. However, the result is contrary to the general rule.
I am again of the view that Cost Audit rights will specifically be given to ICMAP within the next 5 years provided ICMAP put same efforts in this regard.
However, inspite of these facts, I am quite agree with you that a student cannot have required level of knowledge unless theoretically learnt techniques are applied practically. In this specific area ICMAP is reluctant to concentrate, but hopefully, soon this area will be covered.
In the end, I would clarify that I have no affiliation from either of the institutesâ inspite of being relevant from both institutes, however, do not merely prefer ICAP over ICMAP or vice versa based on the above grounds. I also apologize, if due to any reason, contents written above hurt you (Including alleging some Chartered Accountants as âBudhayâ) or any other member.
Thanks for devoting your precious time in going through the post.
Regards,
Ajnabi.