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ICAP humiliating itself
12-19-2008, 03:15 AM
Post: #1
ICAP humiliating itself
Readers will be aware that ICAP has signed MOU with ICAEW whereby ICAEW will train ICAP members to gain ICAEW qualification.

According to this MOU ICAP members (who already have 3 to 5 years of experience in terms of articleship) will have to go through further training of 2 years in CA firm which are authorised to train ICAEW students in Pakistan. Moreover in addition to 2 yrs training, ICAP members have to pass ICAEW 3 to 4 papers. Please bear in mind that ICAEW has two stages i.e Professional stage and Advance stage. Advance stage consists of 3 papers and professional stage consists of 12 papers.

AS I mentioned that some ICAP members have to pass 4 papers of ICAEW (i.e all 3 papers of ICAEW Advance stage and 1 paper of ICAEW Professional stage) in addition to 2 years training. It means ICAEW does not even think that ICAP qualification is equvilant of its professional stage.

By visiting ICAEW web site I found that Emile Woolf Pakistan (http://www.ewpakistan.com) is offering coaching for these 4 papers of ICAEW to ICAP members in Lahore and Karachi. If people will visit this web site they will find that Mr Muhammad Maqbool is Cheif Exective of Emile Woolf Pakistan. Mr Muhammad Maqbool was president of ICAP in 1995 and when he was president all ICAP council members were ICAEW members. Its clearly mean that this person wants to distinguish himself and so protecting ICAEW while being Pakistani.

Now I need to mention what happened to ICAEW and ACCA (I am ACCA member) in India. ICAEW and ACCA did the same thing in India i.e they did register some accountancy firms in India so that these firms can train students. Parliament of India has passed law (as ICAI convinced parliament) that no foreign institute including ICAEW and ACCA can register any Indian accountancy firm in Indian nor these foreign institutes can promote themselves in India. After Indian Parliament passed this law ICAI went to supreme court of India and court decided that no foreign institute can promote itself in India.

Last years in an education fair in India ACCA and ICAEW were promoting themselves in Delhi and police came. As a result ICAEW and ACCA had to stop their promotion.

I have not understood why ICAP has signed this kind of MOU with ICAEW which makes ICAEW superior qualification even in Pakistan and its look that ICAP members are afraid of ICAEW. I meant to say that ICAP members with 3 to 5 yrs of experience have to pass 4 papers of ICAEW and go through further 2 years of training in Pakistan to become ICAEW members.

What message ICAP has given to its members and world by signing this MOU that ICAP and its members are not capable of competing with ICAEW even in Pakistan, Its SHAME.

ICAP did the same thing in ACCA case. When ACCA was first introduced in 1995 in Pakistan. ICAP gave exemption of 13 papers out of 16 papers to ACCA Affiliate (please note that I used word ACCA Affiliate and not ACCA members secondly ICAP had total of 16 papers in 1995). When ICAP saw that ACCA is capturing Pakistani Market ICAP reduced exemption to ACCA Affiliate.

So what its mean ICAP just makes policies without collecting any information. When ICAP council has this standard then we can imagine what will be standard of ICAP members. By making such stupid policies in rush ICAP is giving message to world that ICAP members (Please bear in mind ICAP council consists of ICAP members) do not have quality and if someone employs ICAP members then ICAP members will take important decisions in the same way as ICAP council does i.e without collecting relevant information and without forecasting future impact of decisions.

ACCA and ICAEW

ACCA members are allowed to conduct Audit of plc, Investment business, Insolvency work and tax consultancy in 80 countries of the world including Whole of Europrean Union, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Singapore and many many countries of the world.

Furthermore ACCA Affiliate (again not ACCA members) are required to pass ICAEW 3 papers (not 4 as the case with ICAP members) with three years of training (work experience). It means ACCA Affiliate can use 3 years experience to gain membership of two bodies i.e ACCA and ICAEW.

On the other hand students need 3 to 5 yrs experience to become ICAP member and then further 2 yrs experience to become ICAEW member. Means ICAP people need total of 5 to 7 yrs experience to become ICAEW member where in ACCA case the required experience is three yrs.

Moreover ACCA members with 5 yrs experience can apply for ICAEW membership through CCAB route without giving and passing any exams.

NOTE I do not recommend any of ACCA Affiliate to go for ICAEW as it is waste of time and money. Moreover ICAEW will not add anything to your CV.

At the End

Purpose of my article is not to humiliate ICAP as ICAP is doing it by itself, nor I want to prove that ACCA is better than ICAP. If ICAP members and students think that ICAP is better than ACCA, please continue to do so.

I just want to say that ICAP members should think carefully what kind of policies are being made by ICAP and that ICAP makes policies without collecting relevant information.

Kind Regards

Khalid, ACCA
London
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12-19-2008, 12:48 PM
Post: #2
 
@mroneflower
Don't worry, ICAP has faced more harsher comments than this.
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12-19-2008, 11:49 PM
Post: #3
 
I think youre missing the point. This route is for QUALIFIED CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS, do you really think this qualification will add much to such person's cv? obviously. This is just a deal struck by ICAP to facilitate members who want to emigrate to UK. No use for it in pakistan.
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12-20-2008, 12:23 AM
Post: #4
 
Dears,

There appears no reason for advocacy of anything done by ICAP or ACCA or else. I know people may take wrong decisions because they are prone to errors and misjudgments. However, after going into the contents of above post I must say that it is totally based on lack of knowledge, understanding of circumstances, basis of bilateral exemptions, quality of profession locally and so on.

The writer is totally ignorant of the facts and he does not understand what could be logics to extend or reduce the exemptions etc.

One must understand that recognition is always a two way process and the world is not stationary that the decision once taken can never be changed. These have to be altered as per circumstances. This MOU between ICAP and ICEAW is a step forward to the path of further co-operation, understanding, sharing of expertise, research and reconsidering each other. This process is not stopped after signing off the MOU. I always wonder when one says that ACCAs were taking up Pakistan market. ACCAs can't do it within next 50 years, in Pakistan. It's a fact that in Pakistan they were, they are and they will be dependent on CAs of ICAP for everything they conceive, learn and add to their personalities. If some one has the ability to think he should reach the conclusion that unlike India, in Pakistan, it is always the ICAP that has been trying to give a place to ACCA to work. This is just a good gesture and professional approach. One can see who is dependent. I don't comment on Indian institutes because they know better what suits to their circumstances. However, after WTO and related covenants it would not be possible in the long run to abstain others to compete.

I agree, and I have already been agreeing that ICEAW is better and well placed as compared to ICAP. This has so many reasons. We all the developing countries look forward to those nations for every development. Now this does not give any credit to ACCA that was itself an association established by those who were “graceful” failures of ICEAW and invented this association as a solution to write some designation with their names. Check the history deeply. I can prove it, I guess.

Even then, if we analyze the situation, it is a fact that ICEAW qualified people also have to qualify 3 papers of ICAP before getting into public practice in Pakistan. I must say this does not render them inferior to ICAP members. This is just to make them to learn about local rules and regulations which overrule the international pronouncements etc. No one ever felt it disrespect at ICEAW.

Like-wise if ICEAW has imposed condition of 3 papers, it carries no humiliation at all. This is not a humiliation at all. Rather it is right of ICEAW to judge the professionals at its own criteria. No harms in it. This creation is only of a destructive or ignorant mindset.

It may also be noted that the condition of two years of training does not require anyone to go to UK and get training there-from. The firms of Pakistani qualified people are accredited and authorized to provide such trainings. I experienced that ICEAW is more than willing to authorize every good firm which applies for it. I am a Pakistani qualified CA in public practice and I tell you that students (doing ICEAW after ICAP) will get training from us, the people who are ICAP qualified. Is it a disgrace? I said it's a two way process. Mind is required to understand the facts. No GORA is supposed to come here to train us and even if it happens it's not a disgrace. One learns all the life time.

Time has not stopped, judgment day has not come. There will be more deliberations and co-operation between various institutes worldwide in the time to come. There may be increase or decrease of such exemptions and facilitations in the upcoming days from one or both sides. When one talks about co-operation, it has to wait for confidence building.

The USA's qualified person (say some CFA etc), if wants to get ICAP membership, will be required to undergo all the exam and training requirements. Would it be a disgrace if some how he has to do it?

Hope it may make things easier to understand.

I, however, wonder when some kids talk about the issues bigger than the capacity of their brains. Certainly this sentence is not for the writer of the article.

Regards,



KAMRAN.


Note Edited for wrong spellings.
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12-20-2008, 08:28 AM
Post: #5
 
Dear KAMRAN,
history has nothing to do with what is ACCA now.. well after having a look at almost many of your posts.. it looks like some ACCA buddy has done something really wrong or against you. i guess you really really under estimate ACCAs.
On what basis dear
merely ON THEIR HISTORY..... SOUNDS AWKWARD.
DEAR
dont stick to the PAKI market.. COMPARE or i must say THINK IT GLOBALLY. ( hope m not offensive)
i've alot to say but i really respect my country's CA. THE ICAPIAN though i'm not one of them.
DOESN'T LOOK GOOD FOR SUCH A PERSON TO KEEP ON DEGRADING OTHER PROFESSIONAL BODIES(BASED ON THEIR HISTORY).

BESIDES YOU'VE WRITTEN ALOT AGAINST THE ACCAs. FOR EXAMPLE IN THIS TOPIC.
THE WRITER HIMSELF SAID HE IS NOT IN FAVOR OF ACCA BUT AS HE'S ACCA YOU AGAIN STARTED
WHAT ARE ICAPS AND WHAT ARE ACCAs. COME ON MAN GROW UP. I MUST SAY THESE ARE CHILDISH WAYS.
ANYWAYS TAKE CARE.. HOPE YOU'LL FIND SOME BETTER WAYS FOR COMPARISON AND THINKINGS KEEPING ASIDE THE TOPIC OF HISTORYWink

REGARDS,
ALI
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12-20-2008, 01:12 PM
Post: #6
 
For unseendemon

I have not missed any point. This rule may be new for ICAP members but not for ACCA Affiliate. An ACCA Affiliate need to pass last 3 papers of ICAEW and need to undergo 3 yrs of training which could be used to gain membership of both bodies i.e ACCA and ICAEW. You can check with ICAEW.

kamranACA

Kamran is right that understanding between two bodies must be on bilateral basis. But the problem in ICAEW and ICAP case is that their understanding is not on equal and bilateral basis. For Example, ICAP has been recognising ICAEW since creation of ICAP where MOU was signed between ICAW and ICAP early this year.

ICAEW members just need to pass ICAP 2 papers to become ICAP full member and they do not need to undergo any training. On the other hand ICAP full member need to pass ICAEW 3 to 4 papers plus ICAP members need to undergo 2 yrs of training. I just want to know where is equality in this MOU. Its SHAME for ICAP.

ICAP and its members used to say that as ACCAs do not study local (Pakistani) tax and law therefore they do not have right knowledge, I agree with it. But again in ICAEW case ICAP full members will need to study and take papers under UK Tax and Law. I really do not have words to say anything further on intelligence of ICAP as first they criticise one thing then adopt the same thing.

If I do not know y ICAP reduced ACCA exemption then I shall be grateful if someone let me know.

MOU between ICAP and ICAEW is not on equal basis and this MOU is not going anywhere.

If ACCA cannot do anything without ICAP and if ACCA is second class qualification then y 80 countries of the world recognise ACCA which is not the case with ICAP.

I have not understood what is the ultimate criteria of writer to Judge the qualification. If ultimate criteria is Western world qualification then ACCA is western world qualification. If ultimate criteria is audit of plc then ACCA is allowed to perform audit of plc in 80 countries of the world. So I will advise writer to make up mind about ultimate criteria of judging qualification so that I can reply in better way.

Today I found very interesting facts about ICAP. I came to know that ICAP now requires 3 yrs of training for all of its students and now training does not need to be in Audit firm it can be in industry. Now the question is why ICAP did it, the simple answer is because ICAEW did it two yrs ago and ICAP is just following ICAEW like a fool.

Actually ACCA has been pursuing this policy for long and people in UK says that it was basically ACCA idea and ICAEW just copied ACCA idea. In short ICAP is copying ACCA idea.

Writer mentioned American CFA, with all of due respect I have to say that writer does not have any knowledge about CFA. CFA is finance qualification whereas ACCA, ICAEW and ICAP are tax, Account and Audit qualifications therefore there is no direct comparison between CFA and accountancy qualifications.

I do not want to write more against ICAP, but if someone will force me then I will have to do it.

Khalid, ACCA
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12-20-2008, 05:21 PM
Post: #7
 
Please be patient and nice with Mr. Kamran. I am sure he needs post trauma medical care because something went wrong during his interaction with an ACCA.
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12-20-2008, 06:09 PM
Post: #8
 
Dear Aliboy9,


Your concern about my posts regarding ACCA is incorrect. This is, I guess, the second time when on this forum I talked about the history of ACCA. Further, the reference of ACCA came just in 2 paragraphs out of 11 or 12 in the whole of the above post and that was also for replying the wrong conclusions drawn by the writer of the article. The conclusions that ACCA was going to take up Pakistan market and the concern that why ACCA's exemptions have been changed.

I always said that who-ever is doing ACCA solely considering ACCA a good qualification, is doing a great job. There is also no harm in going for other qualifications as well after ACCA. Let me tell you what I say, just to clear your mind.

When I talk about ACCA it is always specific for Pakistan's scenario. I know ACCA is recognized abroad specially at UK and UAE etc. I appreciate the words of Khalid that one should think in global perspective. However, it can never be ignored that MAJORITY has to work locally and first of all one should talk about his local conditions. Just like Khalid discussed the Indian environment in his first post. If you have been seeing my posts you should have understood what I meant to say. In Pakistan, ACCAs are not going to be a preferred class in foreseeable future. I don't say it because I am not ACCA. I would have said this, had even I been an ACCA. If you are ACCA or you know ACCAs I don't think you cannot reach the same result.

In Pakistan (I again say in Pakistan) ACCAs are mainly represented by failure class who could not do CA or who feel it to be unachievable. Here they are not chartered by any means. They are only a company registered under section 42 of the Companies’ Ordinance 1984. I don't say this merely for opposing them. I had been having meetings with the officials of ACCA chapter. I have told them why they are behind and what can help them and their students to compete the market. Honestly speaking I feel they are not doing what they should have been. I asked them to encourage their members for establishing consultancy firms, arranging frequent seminars of high caliber executives by requesting them to participate, pursuing the entrepreneur by having continuous meetings providing them details about how ACCAs are educated and trained, sending big companies / banks and industries various updates on professional issues, increasing co-operation and bilateral understanding with ICAP and doing lot more than what they are currently doing. I also asked them to establish some merit for in-taking the students so that the failure class who enters ACCA just because they can spend British pounds could be properly tested and evaluated before registration. I told them the behavior of so many ACCA students which they generally show in professional firms while getting training and asked them to make rules to be strictly abide by the students while getting training arrangements like imposing condition of registered contracts for training. I seriously feel Pakistan Chapter is not vibrant, concerned and forward looking to the extent required by its students and members.

I am not against ACCAs, rather, I criticize the people who are representing ACCA in Pakistan as students, members and their chapter as well due to so many valid reasons some of which could be reflected in above paragraphs. We are in gold category of ACCA for training ACCA students. This cannot be a case if I don't welcome the ACCA students. Yes, I do, that's why I know what the issues with ACCA students are. When we talk about a building we have to start from a block, likewise, the people who talk about globalization or international arena should never forget that Pakistan is a part of such arena and we should consider what issues are attached with such professional body within this block. Don't forget this is for the well being of such body's students. I always like the healthy competition.

Until and unless ACCA achieves the required level, I am of the view that enthusiastic students who intend to stay at Pakistan should go for CA. This is a simple advice. One who doesn’t find it suitable is appreciated for taking his decision.

Some of my posts may be having undesired words, but readers should not forget that I am also a human being like them. Every one does and every one is open to criticize my words. No harm in it. However, I will keep on saying what I believe in with honesty.
In Pakistan people do ACCA just to find an indirect way of getting better qualification or the ones who could not fit their-selves elsewhere or the ones who don't want to work hard due to their financial strength or pampered brought up but need a qualification to put with the name. ACCA is only used as a gateway for further designations. However, I appreciate those who have done ACCA and feel it their core qualification. I believe that having more than one qualification is very good but this should not be solely for the reason that first qualification does not pay for the efforts made. If this is the case, then why to go for the first qualification at all?

None is for those who opt to settle abroad or who are doing ACCA from UK.

This is very simple and if you want to understand it's totally digestible.


Best regards,



KAMRAN.
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12-20-2008, 07:04 PM
Post: #9
 
Dear Khalid,

I love to communicate with writers like you who don't become offensive and personal for impersonal matters. This is a good quality which so many of us don’t possess. I may also not be an exception. I really appreciate you. But it's a fact that I or you cannot change any one's opinions. I explained you the situation so that you may understand the facts but if you don't agree with such viewpoint it is up to you.

I fully know what's CFA and for which specialization it is meant for. This was just an example although it does not have similar subjects. If you feel it is inappropriate you can look into CGA and CPA as well which have such similarities. They are not fully exempted from ICAP exams as well. But this does not undermine their importance.

Like-wise reduction of ACCA’s exemptions does not as such undermine the strengths of ACCA in world-over perspective which ACCA members normally claim for. I explained you that such issues are based upon mutual consideration. The reduction may be due to such reasons. If you don't want to understand or if you don't feel my words true, I don't mind at all. This is not a disgrace of ACCA at all just like the imbalance of one paper between ICAP and ICEAW is not a disgrace at all. Don't feel so. Yes, I agree ICEAW is well placed internationally when compared to ICAP. There are no two opinions. I wonder you see the two years training requirements for ICEAW but don't see that such training is not to be obtained at UK. Rather, such students will be trained by Pakistani firms. This shows that ICEAW believes in the strength of local professional training. Have you seen the requirements of ICEAW for authorizing a firm at Pakistan? You should review.

I am just replying your post so no one should feel that I am criticizing ACCA t my own. I am not sure but if you say I accept that ACCA is allowed to be in public practice at 80 countries or so. You know so many ACMAs (of ICMAP) claim that they are in public practice. Even law allows them to do so for certain medium or small companies. Still, do you know how many ACMAs are auditing such companies? Can you collect statistics of such 80 countries, total listed, unlisted, medium and small companies to evaluate that how many companies are in fact being audited by ACCAs? I am not talking about UK. Rather I am asking you about 80 countries. Come on my friend. Don't negate the facts. From ACCAs I strictly mean purely the ACCA founded firms.

You have also criticized training period reduced ICAP. I said I am not advocating ICAP. Yes, there could be some inspiration from ICEAW and this is by no means illegal or immoral especially when wise peoples over this forum are of the view that one should update itself in globalize perspective. When people talk childish, I just wish to tell the history of ACCA. Otherwise I have no interest in doing so. ICAP has been reducing / enhancing the training period for various entry streams historically. ICAP is an autonomous body and is authorized to do what its council considers expedient. For graduates it had been earlier on 5 years, then reduced to 4 years, then again enhanced to 5 years and now again reduced to 3.50 years. The regulator has to regulate what appears to be expedient in the circumstances. Yes, there could also be some inspiration. What's wrong in it?

Your information that ICAP students are allowed for training in industry is totally wrong and baseless. Revisit the source again. There could be some suggestions from the fellows like you, and this might have even been discussed somewhere but it has not happened at all. So again leave worrying; ICAP is not following ACCA in this matter. Rest assured.

However, if ACCAs are happy by feeling that some one is copying their ideas, they are at liberty to feel so. What goes wrong if some hearts feel satisfaction and some people get peace of mind?


Best regards,



KAMRAN.
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12-20-2008, 07:55 PM
Post: #10
 
Dear kaman,
This is the kind of reply we expect from someone senior. instead of elaborating and pointing out the history, you should point out the areas where any(not sticking to one) qualification qualification lacks. well personally i dont think that any professional body lacks in any area.
ICAPs are familiar with pakistan's taxation and law etc. so they need good practice for uk tax and law.same is the case with te ACCAs. Although ACCAs have firm knowledge of uk tax and Law but they need to have a good practice of pakistan's tax and law.
this is why ICAP are preferred over ACCAs in PAKISTAN. but if we compare the same in uk for example, then with no doubt ACCAs would be peferred over ICAPians( if there's any)

well here's some information regarding ACCA. hope you'll like it
(copied)
Europe

(A.)United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland
The ACCA or Chartered Certified Accountant qualification is fully recognised in the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland.
Under the Royal Charter granted by Her Majesty the Queen, ACCA works in the public interest.
ACCA is a Designated Professional Body under the Financial Services and Markets Act, licensing firms of Chartered Certified Accountants to conduct a range of incidental investment business activities.
ACCA is a Recognised Professional Body under the Insolvency Act to issue permits to individual Chartered Certified Accountants to conduct insolvency appointments.
ACCA is also a Recognised Qualifying Body and Recognised Supervisory Body in relation to company auditing under the Companies Act 1989.
ACCA is a member of the Consultative Committee of Accountancy Bodies (CCAB). Members of these bodies are deemed to hold equivalent-level qualifications and advertisements for jobs often state that an organisation is looking for a CCAB-qualified individual.
Full members of CCAB organisations including ACCA can apply for ICAEW membership subject to certain criteria. Details
Only ACCA, ICAEW, ICAI and ICAS are able to authorise members to conduct audit, insolvency and investment business work in the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland.
Outside these countries, legal recognition by government authorities, and mutual recognition by equivalent overseas institutes, varies from country to country. Even where full legal or mutual recognition is not available, ACCA members can sometimes obtain advanced standing in terms of sitting local accountancy examinations. Additionally, in many instances, ACCA's strong global reputation may obviate the need to acquire a local designation.
Similarly, many (although not all) universities and educational providers will recognise ACCA as equivalent to at least a Masters degree in accountancy, for the purpose of obtaining credit to acquire a local Masters degree or enter an advanced study program.

The Irish educational regulatory authorities - Higher Education and Training Awards Council (HETAC) has assigned ACCA Qualification to Level 9 of the Irish National Qualifications Framework (NQF) in 2008. Level 9 holds Irish postgraduate qualifications, such as postgraduate diplomas and masters degrees.


(B.)European Union (EU), European Economic Area (EEA) & Switzerland
The ACCA qualification is legally recognized by all member countries of the European Union under the Mutual Recognition Directive. This recognition extends to the European Economic Area nations and Switzerland. For example a holder of the ACCA or Chartered Certified Accountant qualification could practice as an accountant in all member countries of the European Union, European Economic Area and Switzerland, but could only describe him/herself as ACCA or Chartered Certified Accountant rather than local professional accountant qualification. Access to local professional qualifications is based on an aptitude test. However, it is necessary to be a citizen of one of the EEA states or Switzerland to benefit from this Directive.

(C.)Turkey
ACCA and TÜRMOB (The Union of Chambers of Certified Public Accountants of Turkey) at Turkey signed a partnership agreement in 2004 which enables TÜRMOB members resident in Turkey to follow the ACCA Professional Scheme qualification and achieve ACCA membership.

(D.)Others
The ACCA currently is recognized by the national accounting institutes with the joint scheme relationships in
Armenia (Association of Accountants and Auditors in Armenia);
Georgia (Georgian Federation of Professional Accountants and Auditors).

As of end of 2006, there are 64,574 members and 91,379 students/affiliates in Western Europe, UK and Ireland, as well as 3,279 members and 17,273 students/affiliates in Central/Eastern Europe respectively.


North America

(A.)United States (US)
A mutual recognition between ACCA and AICPA/NASBA does not exist, but is under negotiation as of December 2006. However, it has effectively been put on hold pending a decision by the UK regulatory body, the Professional Oversight Board of Accountancy (POBA). It should also be noted that even if ACCA gained statutory recognition, it would still be up to the individual states to grant reciprocity within their state. [2]
Currently ACCA membership is recognised by the Colorado State Board of Accountancy as meeting the educational requirements to sit for the US Uniform Certified Public Accountant Examination. The majority of ACCA members who pass the CPA exam may apply for licensing as a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) in the state of Colorado, USA after completing a qualifications evaluation.
As of 2002, World Education Services (WES) indicated that the evaluation awarded 9 U.S. semester credits for every subject passed in ACCA exams resulting in a total of 126 U.S. semester credits based on ACCA studies, so it allows ACCA associate members to sit for uniform CPA examination at the states with 120 U.S. semester credits requirements. [3]

As of end of 2005, there are 1,315 members in USA.

(B.)Canada
ACCA announced a Mutual Recognition Agreement with CGA Canada effective from 1 January 2007. [2]
ACCA is recognized by Canadian government as an eligible qualification to audit federal government institutions in Canada [3]
As of 2006, Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, World Education Services (WES) and the Odette School of Business at the University of Windsor indicated that the evaluation recognized ACCA as having the Canadian equivalence of a Bachelor's Degree (four years) in Accounting. [4]
The Canadian branch of ACCA is pursuing recognition for statutory audit purposes in the province of Ontario under the province's Public Accounting Act of 2004

As of 2006, ACCA has 1,100 members and over 400 students residing in Canada, the largest concentration of which live in Ontario.

Oceania

(A.)Australia
The ACCA qualification is statutory recognised as a prescribed body for insolvency purposes under the Corporation Act 2001, section 1282 and for audit purposes by ASIC under Practice Statement 180 Auditor recognition in Australia.
For migration purposes, the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia and National Institute of Accountants recognise the ACCA qualification as sufficient to obtain a skill assessment as an Accountant for the purpose of migration to Australia.
There is no mutual recognition agreement in place with the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia (ICAA) or CPA Australia (CPAA).
The ACCA qualification is recognised as at least equivalent to an Australian bachelors degree in accountancy (although not by CPA Australia). This allows ACCA members to obtain a direct entry to the examinations or advanced standing from Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia or National Institute of Accountants.
Subject to passing exams in Australian tax and law, ACCA members may obtain the Professional National Accountant (PNA) designation from the National Institute of Accountants. On the same basis, ACCA members can obtain direct entry to the CA Program of the ICAA.

As of end of 2007, there are 1,817 members in Australia.

(B.)New Zealand
The ACCA qualification is statutory recognised in New Zealand legislation for registration to perform statutory audit work. ACCA is gazetted under the relevant act (Under Section 199 of the Companies Act 1993 Qualifications of Auditors) in New Zealand. An ACCA member can practice as long as they hold an ACCA public practice certificate (with audit qualification) in their country of origin.
A mutual recognition agreement existed between ACCA and the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA). This was terminated by NZICA on 1 January 2003 and replaced with a new limited recognition of the ACCA qualification. Details (MS Word)

Caribbean, Central & South America
The ACCA qualification currently is legally recognized by the national accounting institutes with the joint scheme relationships in
Barbados (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Barbados);
Bahamas (Bahamas Institute of Chartered Accountants);
Belize (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Belize);
Dominica (Recognized by Companies Act 1994 in the Commonwealth of Dominica);
Guyana (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Guyana);
Jamaica (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Jamaica);
Trinidad and Tobago (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Trinidad and Tobago);
Saint Lucia (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Saint Lucia);
The ACCA qualification is legally recognized in the following jurisdictions
French Guiana (Part of France and hence subject to European Union regulations).

Africa

(A.)South Africa
The ACCA qualification currently is recognized by the South African Institute of Professional Accountants (SAIPA).
The ACCA Professional Scheme has been registered at Level 7 (equivalent to master degree level) on the South African National Qualifications Framework (NQF)in South Africa.

(B.)Zimbabwe
ACCA Zimbabwe is one of the constituent bodies of the Public Accountants and Auditors Board (PAAB). The PAAB is a statutory body established in 1996, to oversee the regulation of the profession and maintain a register of persons entitled to work or practise as public accountants or public auditors in Zimbabwe. Only members in good standing of ACCA and Institute of Chartered Accountants of Zimbabwe register as auditors.

(C.)Others
The ACCA qualification currently is legally recognized by the national accounting institutes with the joint scheme relationships in
Ghana ([Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ghana])
Botswana (Botswana Institute of Accountants);
Egypt (The Egyptian Society of Accountants & Auditors);
Ethiopia (The Ethiopian Professional Association of Accountants and Auditors);
Lesotho (Lesotho Institute of Accountants);
Malawi (The Society of Accountants in Malawi);
Mauritius (The National Equivalence Council of Mauritius);
Nigeria (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Nigeria);
Sierra Leone (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Sierra Leone);
Swaziland (Swaziland Institute of Accountants);
Zambia (Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants);
Tanzania (National Board of Accountants and Auditors).


Asia


(A.)China

1. Hong Kong SAR
A new Agreement of Recognition Arrangement (ARA) between ACCA and HKICPA (Local statutory accountancy body) was put in place on 22 August 2006, backdated to 1 July 2005. Details.

This replaced the old Mutual Recognition Agreement (MRA) that was terminated by HKICPA on 30 June 2005. It was a disaster for ACCA members when they had to go through so called "8 unfair terms" e.g.holding a degree recognized by HKICPA (ACCA degree offered by OUB was failed in the test), worked under HKICPA authorized employers,attend workshop, passed Final Professional Examination (FPE) etc.

On the contrary, HKICPA members could join in ACCA without any further requirement.
However, ACCA qualification is highly recognized by the Hong Kong employment market due to international and historical influences. Most HKICPA members qualified through HKSA-ACCA joint scheme which was operated for more than 20 years. HKSA (Hong Kong Society of Accountants) was the old name of HKICPA.

As of end of 2005, there are 16,609 members in Hong Kong SAR

2. Macau SAR
The ACCA currently is legally recognized with the joint scheme relationships by Macau Society of Certified Practising Accountants (Local statutory accountancy body) in Macau.

3. Taiwan
According to the rules 6(iii) & 9 of accountancy examiniation published by Taiwan government, the British qualified accountants - ACCA members or Chartered Certified Accountants are entitled to obtain advanced standing in the examinations to become a Certified Public Accountant in Taiwan. (Details)

(B.)Singapore
ACCA and national accountancy body, Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Singapore (ICPAS), have operated a Joint Scheme of Examinations since 1983. The Joint Scheme is based on ACCA's examinations and allows students to sit papers in Singapore law and tax. All students who successfully complete the Joint Scheme examinations satisfy the examination requirements of both ACCA and ICPAS and are eligible to apply for membership of both bodies. ACCA's student numbers in Singapore for the Joint Scheme have topped 11,000.
A blog has been set up at http://www.acclawsg.wordpress.com to assist those preparing for the Singapore variant law paper.
Singapore government recognizes ACCA qualification to meet her migration skills assessment to immigrate in Singapore.

As of end of 2005, there are 5,161 members in Singapore.


(C.)Malaysia
On the 13th August 2007 ACCA and the Malaysian Institute of Certified Public Accountants (MICPA) signed a mutual recognition agreement (MRA), providing a route for members of both accountancy bodies to join the other body and to enjoy the benefits which both respected designations have to offer.
The ACCA or Chartered Certified Accountant qualification currently is recognized by the Malaysian Institute of Accountants, non MIA member will not be considered as qualified accountant in Malaysia.
ACCA is statutory recognised in Part II of the First Schedule of the Accountants Act, 1967.

As of end of 2005, there are 7,417 members in Malaysia

(D.)Pakistan
The ACCA qualification is legally recognised as Qualified Company Secretary in Pakistan, and there is partial recognition between ACCA and the local statutory accounting body (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan). ACCA affiliates are exempted first four modules (A-D) of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan qualification.
ACCA in Pakistan has seen tremendous growth during the last five years with thousands of students enrolling every year into ACCA programs.

(E.)Others
The ACCA currently is legally recognized by the national accounting institutes with the joint scheme relationships in
Vietnam (The Ministry of Finance of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam);
Brunei (Brunei Institute of Certified Public Accountants);
Cambodia (The Ministry of Economy and Finance Kampuchea Institute of Certified Public Accountants and Auditors);
Laos (The Ministry of Finance of the Lao People's Democratic Republic).



Professional Partners
Through a range of partnerships with professional institutions, ACCA offers students and members access to other related professionals.
The full members of ACCA are one of two professional bodies' members (Another is the charterholders of Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA)) to be recognized by UK's Securities & Investment Institute (SII) as the equivalent level of SII full membership (MSI). (Details) Full membership of SII is recognized by several national investment professional bodies such as in Australia (Financial Services Institute of Australasia (Finsia), formerly the Australian Institute of Banking and Finance) and Hong Kong (Hong Kong Securities Institute (HKSI).
ACCA and Financial Services Institute of Australasia (Finsia), formerly the Australian Institute of Banking and Finance) have signed a global partnership agreement. Under the agreement, students and members of ACCA may obtain advanced standing in the Institute examinations.
ACCA and the Institute of Internal Auditors (IIA) have signed a global partnership agreement. Under the agreement, the two organisations will co-operate, collaborate and share resources across their global networks of offices and affiliate bodies.
ACCA and the Chartered Institute of Taxation (CIOT) have signed a global partnership agreement to enable ACCA’s members worldwide to take the CIOT’s Advanced Diploma in International Taxation (ADIT).
ACCA members may access an accelerated route to Associate membership of the UK Association of Corporate Treasurers(ACT).
ACCA and Investors in People (IIP) have signed an agreement that will enable IIP recognised organisations in the UK and Ireland to apply directly for the award of ACCA Approved Employer (professional developments stream), that means ACCA members working in IIP recognised organisations will benefit from the recognition of the work-related learning they obtain and will be able to take advantage of simplified CPD reporting.
Institute of Directors (IoD) and ACCA are working on a number of initiatives to promote an agenda of good governance and high standards in learning and development. From 2007, ACCA members seeking to enhance their skills and improve the performance of their organisation will be able to undertake the Chartered Director qualification – a professional qualification for directors. [5]
Institute of Management Accountants (IMA) in United States has agreed that Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA) only have to pass four-papers final examination to get the Certified Management Accountant (CMA) designation. This is not based on a specific agreement but is the result of IMA's policy and similar accreditation is given to many other IFAC bodies, as well as to others with the equivalent of a U.S. bachelors degree (any discipline).


WELL NOW I GUESS ONLY THE CONTINENT ANTARTICA IS LEFT
it a copied information but i thought better to share if anyone is unaware of it OR HAS NEVER READ IT ANYWHERE.

i'm sorry if i was offensive in my last message.

take care.
VERY BEST REGARDS
ALI.
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12-22-2008, 01:29 AM
Post: #11
 
I think it would have become clear from ali_boy9 post that in how many countries ACCA is recognised. I do not think I should say anything else.

Khalid, ACCA
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12-22-2008, 05:54 PM
Post: #12
 
Dear Aliboy,


Your last post has not taken into account my concerns over ACCAs in Pakistan and the facts enlisted therein.

You have gone in such an explanation only against my comments that "I am not sure but if you say I accept that ACCA is allowed to be in public practice at 80 countries". Obviously, I don't have major doubts in it but I am not sure because I am not ACCA.

I did not say that ACCA is not chartered at UK /Ireland. Rather I said it is not chartered here and is merely a company registered/incorporated under section 42 of Companies Ordinance, 1984. Apparently, Companies Ordinance, 1984 is not a law of UK.

As far as recognition or license in 80 countries etc is concerned I already agree that if it is correct it is a good achievement. I am not in substantial doubts. However, the major issue is not of how much some association is spread out on the globe. In fact the issue is to consider how effectively it is spread out in essence in its shape and design. Simply carrying licenses in Ghana, Armenia, Georgia, Barbados, Turkey, Lesotho, Malawi and what not and what not across the globe is not the all about a designation or qualification should possess. I agree it is good achievement. But the real thing is to consider its effective position locally, at each location. This is a thin line to concentrate at but this carries all what we need to understand. Certainly when you will go to check its localized positions (except UK, Ireland with a few other locations) you may feel it falls far short of others in competition. Mr. Khalid has his-self mentioned the position at India. At Pakistan facts are in front of you. In Canada even writing and claiming the designation ACCA on some one’s official letter-head pad is a crime (some one told at this forum). I explained you that in Pakistan ACMAs are allowed to be in public practice. Now how many public companies and quality clients they have in their portfolio is another issue. You must appreciate that having license from as many years as ACMA could not make them the leaders. This is the thing which I want you to understand which you totally ignored. Leaving a few countries in the list, if you go to institute a research, you may find similar position for ACCAs in so many countries across the globe. They might have been recognized / licensed from years but what they have in their portfolios would tell you the story.

Getting a test cap is a big issue for a cricketer, every one will agree, but how he will perform and how one such player had been performing since years is another question. And if any one will talk about the quality he/she will not consider getting the test cap as a quality, rather, the performance will be the thing to be analyzed.

Apart from the above, which is based only on a very nominal amount of knowledge about ACCA globally, I am strictly of the view, that for a Pakistani student, the recognition of ACCA carries no meaning, if he has to stay at Pakistan.

Yes, if some one wants to move, he can use ACCA as a gate way to better qualifications at other locations. But to remember is that it may not be a good designation at its own for having the leading positions. UK and Ireland could be exception. I also agree that at middle-east it also has a good acceptance.

I am not talking about the rare cases which are expected to exist every where.

By the way ACCA is so wise that one day you will see its recognition at Antarctica as well. I am kidding, so, please don't mind.

I did not consider your words offensive, I said I like deliberations and healthy discussions. The ones who talk little-heartedly should their-selves check where they are and what they are. I don’t want to go in details because such things are not offensive, rather are the source of amusement. One should keep in view his position. It’s good for him/her.


Regards,



KAMRAN.
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12-23-2008, 12:45 AM
Post: #13
 
Dear Readers

I will request all of you to ingore kamranACA as he is not willing to accept reality and from his comments people can see how narrow ICAP and its members views are. Mr kamran its a wastage of time to discuss anything with you. I seriouly beleive that some ACCA did something wrong with you.

Kamran you and your institute are the best institute in the world.

Khalid
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12-23-2008, 07:04 PM
Post: #14
 
Mr. Kamran again surprised me with his comments. Certainly he has faulty information. His knowledge and actions are based on whims, ill-will, grudge and intolerance towards other professionals. And he talks like a racist.
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12-23-2008, 10:26 PM
Post: #15
 
Dears,

There is no whim, doubt, ill-will, grudge or other alleged things. Despite of coming up with concrete things or replying with factual answers the guys are attempting to take the things personal.

I said this is only a deliberation and impersonal matters don't qualify for consideration as personal ones.

If I don’t know this Mirza stuff personally how can I understand what problems he carries which make him to write such posts. I don't want to answer his baseless allegations any more.

No body so far came up with any meritorious points to prove the validity and advantages of ACCA within Pakistan for a student who has to stay within Pakistan. If I am not wrong an analysis of local market would give the results.

If some body is at UK/Ireland or he has a plan and reasonable means to move to and stay at UK/Ireland, doing ACCA is good for him, I have already agreed. There are no two opinions.

I am bound to say that the people saying to the contrary either don't want to understand the objective or they are lacking the capability to absorb. I would however welcome the comments with some logics, analysis and basis to prove my viewpoint wrong.

I look forward to a more focused response instead of hew and cry of the above affected folks.


Regards,



KAMRAN.
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