03-16-2007, 01:16 AM
03-19-2007, 03:13 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nabeelanwer</i>
<br />Coooooooool!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
whats that much coooooooool, nabeel??? my idea of not marrying an accounts guy, rite???? i know thats really a cooooool idea....[D] by the way this emoticon[D] reminds me of an ad for Dentonic tooth powder (aik chutkee dentonic se chutkee bajatay hain, daant safaid aur chamakdaar dennntonic...[D]) and one other very old ad of machline's toothpaste...( did you machline your teeth today, twice a day every day [D])....
kissi aur ko bhi yeh ads yaad aatay hain?
<br />Coooooooool!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
whats that much coooooooool, nabeel??? my idea of not marrying an accounts guy, rite???? i know thats really a cooooool idea....[D] by the way this emoticon[D] reminds me of an ad for Dentonic tooth powder (aik chutkee dentonic se chutkee bajatay hain, daant safaid aur chamakdaar dennntonic...[D]) and one other very old ad of machline's toothpaste...( did you machline your teeth today, twice a day every day [D])....
kissi aur ko bhi yeh ads yaad aatay hain?
03-26-2007, 02:24 AM
Dears,
I saw these posts first time and am quite suspecious.
So much of wrong info is being used. MCB is still being audited by Riaz Ahmad and Co as a joint audit with THK-KPMG. I am talking about year 2006 not about year 2005. Has anybody doubts. Capricorn your sorry was not required. Your info was correct. And yes, MCB would still be audited by Riaz Ahmad and Co and KPMG as joint audit for year 2007. Has any body any doubt?
Please post correct info THK students. Riaz Ahmad and Co might be completing 5 years in MCB and might not be its auditors in year 2008 but I am not sure about it. However, AFF left MCB as it completed 5 years and rotation was due.
These audits have been changed due to rotation as per code of corporate governance and does not show some snatching effort by THK or others. If THK has taken audits from AFF then why it forgets that it has also lost audits due to rotation like Pearl Continental that has been gone to Anjum Asim and like Askari Commercial Bank that has gone to FRSH.
AFF, THK and FRSH are biggest firms in Pakistan and may have varying positions in the opinion of different guys. Yes, in Islamabad THK is doing very good but Islamabad THK has also lost some good partners like Faisal Masood and Kashif Azeez Jahangiri etc. No doubt Safiullah and Kazmi have good names but they should make efforts to retain the partners. Qualification ratio at THK islamabad is quite low. THK Islamabad has hired chartered acountants from Khalid Majeed, Anjum Asim and Riaz Ahmad. Why dont you produce chartered accountants ur ownself. THK should improve the students urge to qualify. Otherwise it will go down.
Further, DG Cement's auditors were AFF for the year 2006 and even for the year 2007. It is not with THK-KPMG. Mr. Abdur.Rehman should correct his info and record. Furthermore for the year 2005 and 2006 SNGPL' auditors were FRSH and Riaz Ahmad and Co (Jointly). It was also not with KPMG. I dont know who are the auditors of SNGPL for the year 2007.
Internationally, based upon revenues, ranking is as given below (year 2006)
1.PriceWaterHouse (AFF)
2.Deloitte (MYASCO)
3.Earnst and Young (FRSH)
4.KPMG (THK)
So, internationally KPMG has come at fourth position i.e. above Grant Thornton (Anjum Asim) that is at 5th number.
Further, KPMG and Deloitte are facing some allegations internationally and have also paid penalties for misconduct. Like, KPMG has paid USD 456 million to avoid legal consequences at USA for severe professional misconduct on account of advising the clients for evasion of taxation. Anybody can go on www.wikipedia.org and can search KPMG in its search browser and will find the result.
In early 2005, the United States member firm, KPMG LLP, was accused by the United States Department of Justice of fraud in marketing abusive tax shelters. Under an agreement, KPMG LLP admitted criminal wrongdoing in creating fraudulent tax shelters to help wealthy clients avoid $2.5 billion in taxes and agreed to pay $456 million in penalties in exchange for a deferred prosecution agreement. KPMG LLP would not face criminal prosecution if it complied with the terms of its agreement with the government. On January 3, 2007, the criminal conspiracy charges against KPMG were dropped. [1] However, Federal Attorney Michael J. Garcia stated that the charges could be reinstated if KPMG does not continue to submit to continued monitorship through September 2008.
Before the settlement, the firm, on the advice of its counsel Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP, removed several tax partners and admitted "unlawful conduct" by those partners. The firm agreed to cooperate with DOJ's investigation and help prosecute former partners who had devised and sold the tax shelters. Additionally, the firm hired former U.S. district judge Sven Erik Holmes to monitor its legal and regulatory affairs.
Same is the case with Deloitte that is also accused of professional misconduct and has paid penalties. It was Deloitte's illegal activity regarding the Adelphia scandal. This scandal was documented in the press in 2005.
This does not mean that other firms have never been interrogated. AFF has been so many times interrogated. Currently a leasing company was the hottest issue against AFF but it was cleared by SECP where it was interrogated by Asad Ali Shah (partner of MYASCO) on behalf of SECP who relieved the AFF. I personally know AFF in so many cases accomodates its clients and do not qualify in normal circumstances. Recently CALLMATE became another scandle for AFF.
Likewise, FRSH has also been examined by SECP and even fines have been levied on its partners at Karachi for professional misconduct. Examples could be searched from SECP's website.
Every firm has its merits and demerits. I am not from AFF but I know that in Pakistan AFF is always on top specially due to huge number of its qualified students working all over in Pakistan. Majority of CAs are from AFF.
THK is very good at Islamabad but at Lahore it is poor. It tried to establish office at Faisalbad but failed. At Karachi THK is also very good.
FRSH is very good at Karachi and Lahore. AT Islamabad it is on 3rd position in my view but still FRSH fellows may have other views of which we should keep regard.
All top ten firms are good for students as every one cannot get into big four.
We should respect each other. Otherwise, every one has good as well as bad points.
Best regards,
Kamran.
I saw these posts first time and am quite suspecious.
So much of wrong info is being used. MCB is still being audited by Riaz Ahmad and Co as a joint audit with THK-KPMG. I am talking about year 2006 not about year 2005. Has anybody doubts. Capricorn your sorry was not required. Your info was correct. And yes, MCB would still be audited by Riaz Ahmad and Co and KPMG as joint audit for year 2007. Has any body any doubt?
Please post correct info THK students. Riaz Ahmad and Co might be completing 5 years in MCB and might not be its auditors in year 2008 but I am not sure about it. However, AFF left MCB as it completed 5 years and rotation was due.
These audits have been changed due to rotation as per code of corporate governance and does not show some snatching effort by THK or others. If THK has taken audits from AFF then why it forgets that it has also lost audits due to rotation like Pearl Continental that has been gone to Anjum Asim and like Askari Commercial Bank that has gone to FRSH.
AFF, THK and FRSH are biggest firms in Pakistan and may have varying positions in the opinion of different guys. Yes, in Islamabad THK is doing very good but Islamabad THK has also lost some good partners like Faisal Masood and Kashif Azeez Jahangiri etc. No doubt Safiullah and Kazmi have good names but they should make efforts to retain the partners. Qualification ratio at THK islamabad is quite low. THK Islamabad has hired chartered acountants from Khalid Majeed, Anjum Asim and Riaz Ahmad. Why dont you produce chartered accountants ur ownself. THK should improve the students urge to qualify. Otherwise it will go down.
Further, DG Cement's auditors were AFF for the year 2006 and even for the year 2007. It is not with THK-KPMG. Mr. Abdur.Rehman should correct his info and record. Furthermore for the year 2005 and 2006 SNGPL' auditors were FRSH and Riaz Ahmad and Co (Jointly). It was also not with KPMG. I dont know who are the auditors of SNGPL for the year 2007.
Internationally, based upon revenues, ranking is as given below (year 2006)
1.PriceWaterHouse (AFF)
2.Deloitte (MYASCO)
3.Earnst and Young (FRSH)
4.KPMG (THK)
So, internationally KPMG has come at fourth position i.e. above Grant Thornton (Anjum Asim) that is at 5th number.
Further, KPMG and Deloitte are facing some allegations internationally and have also paid penalties for misconduct. Like, KPMG has paid USD 456 million to avoid legal consequences at USA for severe professional misconduct on account of advising the clients for evasion of taxation. Anybody can go on www.wikipedia.org and can search KPMG in its search browser and will find the result.
In early 2005, the United States member firm, KPMG LLP, was accused by the United States Department of Justice of fraud in marketing abusive tax shelters. Under an agreement, KPMG LLP admitted criminal wrongdoing in creating fraudulent tax shelters to help wealthy clients avoid $2.5 billion in taxes and agreed to pay $456 million in penalties in exchange for a deferred prosecution agreement. KPMG LLP would not face criminal prosecution if it complied with the terms of its agreement with the government. On January 3, 2007, the criminal conspiracy charges against KPMG were dropped. [1] However, Federal Attorney Michael J. Garcia stated that the charges could be reinstated if KPMG does not continue to submit to continued monitorship through September 2008.
Before the settlement, the firm, on the advice of its counsel Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP, removed several tax partners and admitted "unlawful conduct" by those partners. The firm agreed to cooperate with DOJ's investigation and help prosecute former partners who had devised and sold the tax shelters. Additionally, the firm hired former U.S. district judge Sven Erik Holmes to monitor its legal and regulatory affairs.
Same is the case with Deloitte that is also accused of professional misconduct and has paid penalties. It was Deloitte's illegal activity regarding the Adelphia scandal. This scandal was documented in the press in 2005.
This does not mean that other firms have never been interrogated. AFF has been so many times interrogated. Currently a leasing company was the hottest issue against AFF but it was cleared by SECP where it was interrogated by Asad Ali Shah (partner of MYASCO) on behalf of SECP who relieved the AFF. I personally know AFF in so many cases accomodates its clients and do not qualify in normal circumstances. Recently CALLMATE became another scandle for AFF.
Likewise, FRSH has also been examined by SECP and even fines have been levied on its partners at Karachi for professional misconduct. Examples could be searched from SECP's website.
Every firm has its merits and demerits. I am not from AFF but I know that in Pakistan AFF is always on top specially due to huge number of its qualified students working all over in Pakistan. Majority of CAs are from AFF.
THK is very good at Islamabad but at Lahore it is poor. It tried to establish office at Faisalbad but failed. At Karachi THK is also very good.
FRSH is very good at Karachi and Lahore. AT Islamabad it is on 3rd position in my view but still FRSH fellows may have other views of which we should keep regard.
All top ten firms are good for students as every one cannot get into big four.
We should respect each other. Otherwise, every one has good as well as bad points.
Best regards,
Kamran.
03-29-2007, 09:17 AM
Finally some sanity on this thread... even though its after 6 months.. good, informative post there Kamran.. but the kiddos have since abandoned this forum , they probably ran out of agreements.
03-31-2007, 11:02 PM
Ya but quite late kamran has been
04-09-2007, 07:23 PM
<font color="blue"></font id="blue"><font size="3"></font id="size3"><font face="Century Gothic">Dear KamranACA,
You mentioned in your post that KPMG and Deloitte have been subject to penalties...but I think this is the case for all of the Big Four firms. Every firm has in the past been subjected to some penal actions, even the top ranking PWC....You must be aware of the recent crisis in PWC Russia where the Moscow office of the top rated firm has been raided by the Russian government over allegations that the firm owes back taxes of 290 million roubles (#163;5.7m) and the for papers linked to the collapse of oil group Yukos.</font id="Century Gothic">
You mentioned in your post that KPMG and Deloitte have been subject to penalties...but I think this is the case for all of the Big Four firms. Every firm has in the past been subjected to some penal actions, even the top ranking PWC....You must be aware of the recent crisis in PWC Russia where the Moscow office of the top rated firm has been raided by the Russian government over allegations that the firm owes back taxes of 290 million roubles (#163;5.7m) and the for papers linked to the collapse of oil group Yukos.</font id="Century Gothic">
04-09-2007, 10:48 PM
Dear,
Off course I agree to your observations. I have not mentioned only about one firm. I said that every one has good as well bad points. You can find further about the big4 including PWC.
I understand that big disasters stand in the name of big 4 becoz all big concerns are their clients. One can analyze that any smaller company's failure or fraud rarely affects a large world. So many faruds of this nature like Crescent Standard Investment Bank could be seen in history where world at large has not been affacted.
I understand that every one out of the big4 and even other reputed firms of Pakistan are doing very well. Every one has its merits and demerits.
In my view AFF is at top in Pakistan. I dont much argue for it. Specially, when I am not a part of AFF, I have apparently no personal interest in doing so. I am also aware that mistakes could be committed by anyone, whatever the firm may be. If any one has a different opinion, I have full respect for him.
Purpose of my previous post was not negatively aimed. I have very close friends in KPMG, FRSH, and AFF. Each firm has very good professionals. These all are doing very well off course. I have no doubts about it.
Regards,
Kamran.
Off course I agree to your observations. I have not mentioned only about one firm. I said that every one has good as well bad points. You can find further about the big4 including PWC.
I understand that big disasters stand in the name of big 4 becoz all big concerns are their clients. One can analyze that any smaller company's failure or fraud rarely affects a large world. So many faruds of this nature like Crescent Standard Investment Bank could be seen in history where world at large has not been affacted.
I understand that every one out of the big4 and even other reputed firms of Pakistan are doing very well. Every one has its merits and demerits.
In my view AFF is at top in Pakistan. I dont much argue for it. Specially, when I am not a part of AFF, I have apparently no personal interest in doing so. I am also aware that mistakes could be committed by anyone, whatever the firm may be. If any one has a different opinion, I have full respect for him.
Purpose of my previous post was not negatively aimed. I have very close friends in KPMG, FRSH, and AFF. Each firm has very good professionals. These all are doing very well off course. I have no doubts about it.
Regards,
Kamran.
04-12-2007, 09:56 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Abdur.Rehman</i>
<br />Well there is one and Mr. Pracs it seams as if after wandering around in 5 firms and getting nothing u have started a net cafe and u have nothing else to do than to oppose ali. Y do u do like that.
If u want to take a look at the facts, as u were asking for them
first have a look at the companies out of the top 30 of 29-05-06 on KSE that are audited by KPMG
1)OGDCL
2)PTCL
3)DGK Cement
4)FFBL
5)Union Bank
6)Fauji cement
7)sui northern
8)Pakistan Cement
9)Faysal bank
10)MCB
11)National Bank of Pakistan
12)Sui Southern
13)Pakistan PTA
14)PICIC Commercial Bank
15)PICIC GrowthXD
And there are many other well reputed companies i.e. FFC, Shell, siemens, Engro chemicals and almost all the oil and gas sector of Islamabad which are not in the top 30 KSE for the day audited by KPMG.
And also have a look at Islamabad stock exchage. There are three top stocks of which two i.e OGDCL and PTCL are with KPMG and the third one is with FRSH.
u can visit the website of KSE and ISE for reference.
and stop thrashing the facts which doesnt match with ur ideas.
and get up from ur fast sleep. Open the door and look out its a day.
bye
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
dear i think OGDCL is the clint Of Syed Husaun zafar NAveed and co.
and MCB audit is conducted by Riaz And Co. islamabad
wat u think abt your statement now
<br />Well there is one and Mr. Pracs it seams as if after wandering around in 5 firms and getting nothing u have started a net cafe and u have nothing else to do than to oppose ali. Y do u do like that.
If u want to take a look at the facts, as u were asking for them
first have a look at the companies out of the top 30 of 29-05-06 on KSE that are audited by KPMG
1)OGDCL
2)PTCL
3)DGK Cement
4)FFBL
5)Union Bank
6)Fauji cement
7)sui northern
8)Pakistan Cement
9)Faysal bank
10)MCB
11)National Bank of Pakistan
12)Sui Southern
13)Pakistan PTA
14)PICIC Commercial Bank
15)PICIC GrowthXD
And there are many other well reputed companies i.e. FFC, Shell, siemens, Engro chemicals and almost all the oil and gas sector of Islamabad which are not in the top 30 KSE for the day audited by KPMG.
And also have a look at Islamabad stock exchage. There are three top stocks of which two i.e OGDCL and PTCL are with KPMG and the third one is with FRSH.
u can visit the website of KSE and ISE for reference.
and stop thrashing the facts which doesnt match with ur ideas.
and get up from ur fast sleep. Open the door and look out its a day.
bye
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
dear i think OGDCL is the clint Of Syed Husaun zafar NAveed and co.
and MCB audit is conducted by Riaz And Co. islamabad
wat u think abt your statement now
04-13-2007, 10:42 PM
<font color="blue"></font id="blue"><font size="5"></font id="size5"><font face="Century Gothic">Well buddy! this is not correct. OGDCL is jointly audited by Deloitte M. Yousuf Adil Saleem & Co., & KPMG Taseer Hadi and Co.,
To dispel your suspicions just follow the link
http//www.ogdcl.com/publications/Annual%20Report%2006/ogdcl%20accounts/auditors%20rept%20to%20members.pdf
S. Zafar Shah Naveed & Co. was only involved in providing some consulting services to OGDCL.
_____________________________________________________________________
O Lord! Increase me in knowledge, Ameen!</font id="Century Gothic">
To dispel your suspicions just follow the link
http//www.ogdcl.com/publications/Annual%20Report%2006/ogdcl%20accounts/auditors%20rept%20to%20members.pdf
S. Zafar Shah Naveed & Co. was only involved in providing some consulting services to OGDCL.
_____________________________________________________________________
O Lord! Increase me in knowledge, Ameen!</font id="Century Gothic">
04-14-2007, 08:51 PM
MCB is joint audit of KTH and RIAZ AHMAD.
Regards,
Kamran.
Regards,
Kamran.
04-16-2007, 02:57 PM
I think its better to reply for the request rather than lengthy unwanted discussions.
04-18-2007, 07:08 PM
In my views, overall ranking of top seven (7) CA firms (in Pakistan) is as follows;
1 -| Alexander Fletcher Ferguson (AFF) & Co. [A member firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC)];
-0-| PRICE -------- Samuel Price (1849)
-0-| WATERHOUSE --- Edwin Waterhouse (1874)
-0-| COOPERS ------ William Coopers (1854)
2 -| KPMG Taseer Hadi (KPMG-TH) & Co. [A member firm of Klynveld Peat Marwick Goerdeler (KPMG) International];
3 -| Ford Rhodes Sidat Hyder (FRSH) & Co. [A member firm of Ernst & Young (E&Y) International];
4 -| Deloitte M. Yousuf Adil Saleem & Co. (MYASCO) [A member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu];
5 -| Anjum Asim Shahid Rehman (AASR) [A member firm of Grant Thornton (GT) International];
6 -| Riaz Ahmad & Co. (RACO) [A member firm of SA Internation Association of Firms];
7 -| BDO Ebrahim & Co. [A member firm of BDO International]
1 -| Alexander Fletcher Ferguson (AFF) & Co. [A member firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC)];
-0-| PRICE -------- Samuel Price (1849)
-0-| WATERHOUSE --- Edwin Waterhouse (1874)
-0-| COOPERS ------ William Coopers (1854)
2 -| KPMG Taseer Hadi (KPMG-TH) & Co. [A member firm of Klynveld Peat Marwick Goerdeler (KPMG) International];
3 -| Ford Rhodes Sidat Hyder (FRSH) & Co. [A member firm of Ernst & Young (E&Y) International];
4 -| Deloitte M. Yousuf Adil Saleem & Co. (MYASCO) [A member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu];
5 -| Anjum Asim Shahid Rehman (AASR) [A member firm of Grant Thornton (GT) International];
6 -| Riaz Ahmad & Co. (RACO) [A member firm of SA Internation Association of Firms];
7 -| BDO Ebrahim & Co. [A member firm of BDO International]
04-25-2007, 03:46 AM
What's the basis of your ranking? Seems International association
04-27-2007, 01:19 AM
If the basis is international association then RACO should come even after BDO...otherwise you have to promote it a bit upwards in the ranking