11-24-2007, 09:50 PM
Karmran sb so you want to continue your tradition. I mean you are never unwilling to submit to any other's opinion. It might be only due to two reasons. Either you are perfect or you are stubborn, there might not be any third case. At the same time you are generous enough to make me feel happier by unconditionally accepting my point.
One thing which our thread or even discussions in normal lives prove that we are followers of our beliefs and not of the facts (logic I don't know due to what reasons but is not allowed here). How true as somebody said "opinions are ultimately determined by feelings and not by intellect". Being rational I often argue is something very difficult, and my point is proved to me at various occasions. I used to think that our aim should be to lessen our bias, but that too, as I have concluded, is not possible. At the same time one's ability for being rational is considered as intellect. By this definition emotional people like me (perhaps not only me) can't be considered intelligent. At various occasions I have mentioned at this forum that we have our ends in our minds (determined by our feelings) and we let our intellect to work for us to derive logics, oh sorry I mean facts, which will help us to prove our points. We let our intellect to work for our feelings. I will quote somebody else "those who are not ready to change their opinions love themselves more than the truth", I think we all prefer ourselves on the truth. Having said all this I will require you to tell me if these are the circumstances then what is the use of getting into any debate or discussion. Perhaps it is to satisfy our need to express ourselves.
You have not left me with much reasons to continue here. So far I have not been able to make you agree that some difference exist between cricket and WWE. At least even if we agree both are pre-planned, in the later case it is declared I mean the officials and the viewers agree on this, and in the previous case (cricket and other sports) at least it is pretended by the officials and players that things are genuine. I wonder if you won't agree to me on this point. If you don't its fine but if you do all of your earlier efforts for comparison between cricket and WWE loose weightage if they had any. I will say you are among very few who think that people take WWE as a genuine sport.
Coming to the other point, I still am not able to conclude your point that why people don't want to play with us. This is for security reasons or this is for the deeds of our officials. I think that there is a slight change in your point regarding this. You have said that teams don't want to play with us due to security reasons and its the failure of our officials (or they are intentionally doing this) that they have been unable to prove to the world that we not unsafer than other venues. I thought I gave same figures that things are not as drastic as you considered, it seems that the same have been overseen by you. Pakistan is not playing very less matches as compared to other teams. There had been not a single incident, or the facts never portrayed it like this when Pakistan had to beg others to play with them and resultantly they have to let other win. This point was the beginning of this discussion, however, you have completely failed to say anything in its support. I earlier mentioned that we played 18 test last year and we have played a lot of cricket this year. I can only conclude that you have been miss informed. You seem to be defending some facts that do not exist at all.
Pakistan is a safe place or not as compared to other countries is not the core of this debate. I won't take about the reasons, but at least these are not related with cricket, Pakistan has developed the image of being quite an unsafe place. Please ask from Pakistanis living abroad, what the think. I know the reality is different. I think Pakistan comes second in the race of these suicidal attacks, two in Rawalpindi today's figure, so why not foreigner will consider Pakistan a dangerous place. What do you think about Iraq or Afghanistan? Even if you say that its the failure of our diplomats, cricket is by no means involved.
The last point of your post, I am very glad that at least you have come with some argument. And I have to agree in the light of examples quoted by you that there might be cases when people with full stomachs may endanger their life for lust. This means at least at one point I have changed my opinion when provided with some plausible argument.
One thing which our thread or even discussions in normal lives prove that we are followers of our beliefs and not of the facts (logic I don't know due to what reasons but is not allowed here). How true as somebody said "opinions are ultimately determined by feelings and not by intellect". Being rational I often argue is something very difficult, and my point is proved to me at various occasions. I used to think that our aim should be to lessen our bias, but that too, as I have concluded, is not possible. At the same time one's ability for being rational is considered as intellect. By this definition emotional people like me (perhaps not only me) can't be considered intelligent. At various occasions I have mentioned at this forum that we have our ends in our minds (determined by our feelings) and we let our intellect to work for us to derive logics, oh sorry I mean facts, which will help us to prove our points. We let our intellect to work for our feelings. I will quote somebody else "those who are not ready to change their opinions love themselves more than the truth", I think we all prefer ourselves on the truth. Having said all this I will require you to tell me if these are the circumstances then what is the use of getting into any debate or discussion. Perhaps it is to satisfy our need to express ourselves.
You have not left me with much reasons to continue here. So far I have not been able to make you agree that some difference exist between cricket and WWE. At least even if we agree both are pre-planned, in the later case it is declared I mean the officials and the viewers agree on this, and in the previous case (cricket and other sports) at least it is pretended by the officials and players that things are genuine. I wonder if you won't agree to me on this point. If you don't its fine but if you do all of your earlier efforts for comparison between cricket and WWE loose weightage if they had any. I will say you are among very few who think that people take WWE as a genuine sport.
Coming to the other point, I still am not able to conclude your point that why people don't want to play with us. This is for security reasons or this is for the deeds of our officials. I think that there is a slight change in your point regarding this. You have said that teams don't want to play with us due to security reasons and its the failure of our officials (or they are intentionally doing this) that they have been unable to prove to the world that we not unsafer than other venues. I thought I gave same figures that things are not as drastic as you considered, it seems that the same have been overseen by you. Pakistan is not playing very less matches as compared to other teams. There had been not a single incident, or the facts never portrayed it like this when Pakistan had to beg others to play with them and resultantly they have to let other win. This point was the beginning of this discussion, however, you have completely failed to say anything in its support. I earlier mentioned that we played 18 test last year and we have played a lot of cricket this year. I can only conclude that you have been miss informed. You seem to be defending some facts that do not exist at all.
Pakistan is a safe place or not as compared to other countries is not the core of this debate. I won't take about the reasons, but at least these are not related with cricket, Pakistan has developed the image of being quite an unsafe place. Please ask from Pakistanis living abroad, what the think. I know the reality is different. I think Pakistan comes second in the race of these suicidal attacks, two in Rawalpindi today's figure, so why not foreigner will consider Pakistan a dangerous place. What do you think about Iraq or Afghanistan? Even if you say that its the failure of our diplomats, cricket is by no means involved.
The last point of your post, I am very glad that at least you have come with some argument. And I have to agree in the light of examples quoted by you that there might be cases when people with full stomachs may endanger their life for lust. This means at least at one point I have changed my opinion when provided with some plausible argument.
