11-14-2007, 05:50 PM
Dears,
I feel Astute has some information through some source at ISI or Jamaat Islami becoz just one sided view of a hindu army man cannot make him to write above post. He may not be willing to disclose his source. I agree that we should not make detailed discussion if we feel not disclosing the source due to limitations.
However, sometimes we do it spontaneously as it pinhcs inside if we know something odd. I know proving the big games and frauds has always remained an extremely difficult task. I can quote hundred examples where people at large knew that something odd did exist in some affair but no body was able to prove it and get the righteous action for remedies. In our society it is not a big deal at all. Even other countries and social set-ups do it. So many NOORA KUSHTIes are being fought and so much is done only to watch personal interests.
As far as shaking of taboos is concerned, we must not forget that at a specific moment, we muslims created similarities between Salah-ud-Din Ayubi and Saddam Hussian. So manys of us named their sons on the name of Saddam Hussian. But eventually things proved to the contrary and his every act gave a witness of his personal interest and lust to remain in power against his opponents doing every thing possible for him including but not limited to murder of lacs of Iraqians. Public was punished for one man's character. This has so many times happened.
Allama Iqbal said;
"Hai Darwaishee Bhi Ayyaari....Hai Sultani Bhi Ayyaari..."
Now applying human mind, I personally feel that Astute's statement is partly correct and for rest of the statement I cannot blame him to be untrue. It would not be hiting any one if i disclose that I had been an active member of Islami Jamiat Talba during some of my college years.
Jamaat Islami has ever been working for ISI becoz both were at Kahmir fighting against india. It is not a sin to work with our army for protecting the political and regional causes of our countary. Diplomatically speaking, it is what so many countries typically do. Governments and agencies have developed people and use people for their benefits and purposes. Whether or not JI is taking some monys from ISI for the srevices, is not known to me. I also doubt about whether or not they kidnapp the people. But I know they have training campuses and have greatest linkage with ISI.
One thing we had never thought in individul capacity as citizen of Pakistan. So manys of us talk against JAMHOORIYAT or DEMOCRACY. But whenever the issue of Kashmir is discussed we use the name of Democratic rights. Mr. ISRAR in his above post wrote
"......................
Agar un ko unka 'jamhori haq' nahi milraha to un ke leye ap ka kia mashwara hai?
"..............................
Here I dont know what the comments Israr has about Jamhooriyet. I just reminded it.
My question is why we feel that our fight at Kashmir is a valid act at our behalf. Can we answer this question. You know I am habitual of talking about TABOOS. I explain it as a dialogue i.e. some questions and some confused answers embedded in questions
Do we feel it is JEHAD what we are doing at Kahsmir?
How can we say it is Jehad?
Becoz muslims are being killed at Kahsmir and they need our help?
Why muslims are being killed at Kashmir only?
What is driving force behind such killing or offence at Kashmir by indians?
Why not muslims killed in else where of India?
No muslims are also killed in other parts of India like Ilah-Abad and Gujrat.
Ok, then why we never tried to put in Jehadi efforts at Gujrat and Ilahabad where thousands of muslims were fired out?
Why only our concentration is on Kashmir?
Is there no cruality with muslims in our own country or else where in the world?
Yes it is.
Then why we dont start Jehad every where?
Jehadies dont accept democracy, then why they want democratic rights of Kashmiries?
Do jehadies believe in Red-Culf award? or division made by Franggies and agreed with Mr. Jinnah?
They were in fact not standing behind Mr. Jinnah when this all division of sub-continent was decided?
No, they fight in Kahsmir only for Kashmiries becoz Kashmiries are being killed.
Why not they doing it in elsewhere at india with same intensity?
Do we accept the same which was done by India in 1971 when our army was killing Bangaalies at Bangla Desh? Do we accept the support of indians to Mukthi Bahni logical?
Is it our responsibility to make independent countries of muslims every where in the world fighting against the non-muslim countries having muslim population?
Would it not be an endeavor to call an action against muslims inhabitants from such countaries indirectly by our own hands?
Would it be a gud gesture if some of us would ask Pakistani Govt to give them a separate country?
And, yes as we expect, if Pakistani Govt would be against such demand, should india come to rescue such party or group in Pakistan?
Does in the opinion of Jehadies Islam gives a concept of boundries and countary for muslims in pure islamic perspective of these jehadies?
So dears, this list of dialogue will be never ending. In fact fighting at Kashmir by Pakistani agencies and groups at the highest level (which i shud say macro level) is not for the sake of Jehad only. There are so many regional, political, scarce resources and defence purposes of such fight. I mean to say that it was and is not in FIKAR and GHAM of Kashmiries. We and China both have our interests in it and we are watching our own interests. It is a ploitical game and not religious act. Yes, watching our interests by instituting so many way outs and methodologies is not incorrect. Even in some peoples' view using name of Islam in it is also not incorrect indirectly. But yaad rakho kisi ko kisi kahsmiri ka gham nahi khaaey jaa raha. Believe me. Neither it was hurting Ayub nor Bhutto nor Zia nor Nawaz and nor this Musharraf.
We never felt a pain for undue killing of innocent Pakistani. We never do it. Hamaarey Kaan par joon nahi reengti. Rather so manys of us appreciate such killings and bomb explosions and create reasons for justifying BAROOD and BLOOD even at Pakistan. Ham ko kiya dukh ho gaa kisi Kshmiri ya Gujrati ka. This whole is a darama.
To this fact, I suppose the things written by Astute are not materially wrong.
Best regards,
Kamran.
I feel Astute has some information through some source at ISI or Jamaat Islami becoz just one sided view of a hindu army man cannot make him to write above post. He may not be willing to disclose his source. I agree that we should not make detailed discussion if we feel not disclosing the source due to limitations.
However, sometimes we do it spontaneously as it pinhcs inside if we know something odd. I know proving the big games and frauds has always remained an extremely difficult task. I can quote hundred examples where people at large knew that something odd did exist in some affair but no body was able to prove it and get the righteous action for remedies. In our society it is not a big deal at all. Even other countries and social set-ups do it. So many NOORA KUSHTIes are being fought and so much is done only to watch personal interests.
As far as shaking of taboos is concerned, we must not forget that at a specific moment, we muslims created similarities between Salah-ud-Din Ayubi and Saddam Hussian. So manys of us named their sons on the name of Saddam Hussian. But eventually things proved to the contrary and his every act gave a witness of his personal interest and lust to remain in power against his opponents doing every thing possible for him including but not limited to murder of lacs of Iraqians. Public was punished for one man's character. This has so many times happened.
Allama Iqbal said;
"Hai Darwaishee Bhi Ayyaari....Hai Sultani Bhi Ayyaari..."
Now applying human mind, I personally feel that Astute's statement is partly correct and for rest of the statement I cannot blame him to be untrue. It would not be hiting any one if i disclose that I had been an active member of Islami Jamiat Talba during some of my college years.
Jamaat Islami has ever been working for ISI becoz both were at Kahmir fighting against india. It is not a sin to work with our army for protecting the political and regional causes of our countary. Diplomatically speaking, it is what so many countries typically do. Governments and agencies have developed people and use people for their benefits and purposes. Whether or not JI is taking some monys from ISI for the srevices, is not known to me. I also doubt about whether or not they kidnapp the people. But I know they have training campuses and have greatest linkage with ISI.
One thing we had never thought in individul capacity as citizen of Pakistan. So manys of us talk against JAMHOORIYAT or DEMOCRACY. But whenever the issue of Kashmir is discussed we use the name of Democratic rights. Mr. ISRAR in his above post wrote
"......................
Agar un ko unka 'jamhori haq' nahi milraha to un ke leye ap ka kia mashwara hai?
"..............................
Here I dont know what the comments Israr has about Jamhooriyet. I just reminded it.
My question is why we feel that our fight at Kashmir is a valid act at our behalf. Can we answer this question. You know I am habitual of talking about TABOOS. I explain it as a dialogue i.e. some questions and some confused answers embedded in questions
Do we feel it is JEHAD what we are doing at Kahsmir?
How can we say it is Jehad?
Becoz muslims are being killed at Kahsmir and they need our help?
Why muslims are being killed at Kashmir only?
What is driving force behind such killing or offence at Kashmir by indians?
Why not muslims killed in else where of India?
No muslims are also killed in other parts of India like Ilah-Abad and Gujrat.
Ok, then why we never tried to put in Jehadi efforts at Gujrat and Ilahabad where thousands of muslims were fired out?
Why only our concentration is on Kashmir?
Is there no cruality with muslims in our own country or else where in the world?
Yes it is.
Then why we dont start Jehad every where?
Jehadies dont accept democracy, then why they want democratic rights of Kashmiries?
Do jehadies believe in Red-Culf award? or division made by Franggies and agreed with Mr. Jinnah?
They were in fact not standing behind Mr. Jinnah when this all division of sub-continent was decided?
No, they fight in Kahsmir only for Kashmiries becoz Kashmiries are being killed.
Why not they doing it in elsewhere at india with same intensity?
Do we accept the same which was done by India in 1971 when our army was killing Bangaalies at Bangla Desh? Do we accept the support of indians to Mukthi Bahni logical?
Is it our responsibility to make independent countries of muslims every where in the world fighting against the non-muslim countries having muslim population?
Would it not be an endeavor to call an action against muslims inhabitants from such countaries indirectly by our own hands?
Would it be a gud gesture if some of us would ask Pakistani Govt to give them a separate country?
And, yes as we expect, if Pakistani Govt would be against such demand, should india come to rescue such party or group in Pakistan?
Does in the opinion of Jehadies Islam gives a concept of boundries and countary for muslims in pure islamic perspective of these jehadies?
So dears, this list of dialogue will be never ending. In fact fighting at Kashmir by Pakistani agencies and groups at the highest level (which i shud say macro level) is not for the sake of Jehad only. There are so many regional, political, scarce resources and defence purposes of such fight. I mean to say that it was and is not in FIKAR and GHAM of Kashmiries. We and China both have our interests in it and we are watching our own interests. It is a ploitical game and not religious act. Yes, watching our interests by instituting so many way outs and methodologies is not incorrect. Even in some peoples' view using name of Islam in it is also not incorrect indirectly. But yaad rakho kisi ko kisi kahsmiri ka gham nahi khaaey jaa raha. Believe me. Neither it was hurting Ayub nor Bhutto nor Zia nor Nawaz and nor this Musharraf.
We never felt a pain for undue killing of innocent Pakistani. We never do it. Hamaarey Kaan par joon nahi reengti. Rather so manys of us appreciate such killings and bomb explosions and create reasons for justifying BAROOD and BLOOD even at Pakistan. Ham ko kiya dukh ho gaa kisi Kshmiri ya Gujrati ka. This whole is a darama.
To this fact, I suppose the things written by Astute are not materially wrong.
Best regards,
Kamran.