02-25-2009, 06:15 PM
Dear Mr. Pracha,
I can understand what you have mentioned. However, there are certain things to add on.
The stipend rate for all ICAP students (at all entry streams and part qualification levels) is now more than the minimum wages stipulated in law. However, personally I believe that the stipend paid to students (at least in Pakistan) must not be considered as salary. If we feel it is salary then in some cases it must be beyond the 5 digit figures which of course cannot happen. In such cases anything below that figure may be considered a professional disgrace if we take the stipends in the meaning of salary. I know so many people living out cannot understand this difference.
For ACCAs, the stipend rates are settled by ACCA chapter on firm to firm basis, and if any firm is paying lesser in whatever category it is, this would be the fault of ACCA. If some body says that ACCA chapter does not have a similar influence on firms like what ICAP has, then it should be understood that such dissimilarity is natural and may be witnessed all around the globe in such situations. If it is a disgrace for ACCAs, (which in my view is not), be sure, this is done by ACCA chapter. I said things get reacted in response to how these have been acted upon. ACCA had never been fair with ICAP and as a matter of fact it does not harm the ICAP members. That's why you don't witness ICAP members complaining for it. This is a point to be understood. It is of vital importance. That's why I quoted the example of Hudaibia Pact. It is in fact an issue for poor ACCAs obliged to stay at Pakistan. The ones who leave may have a better deal in those 80 countries.
The point clarified by you regarding how the students feel during currency of their studies and training is a real picture of the situation. I wonder why it is indigestible for our fellows like Rafay. We know even in families the parents sometime become harsher with their kids to which kids never like and they protest against it, normally sons have lesser understanding/intimacy with fathers and more with mothers for the similar reasons (a famous Pakistani writer Mamtaz Mufti has explained this issue in a great deal in one of his books), in schools and colleges no one likes the hard nut teacher regardless of however efficient he is, in army trainings people even cry for the attitude of their trainers, in sports the disciplined coaches are rarely liked by the players (one can watch Chak Dey India); and this happens invariably in all cases without considering that the ultimate benefit is going to the so-called victims. Similarly, during the phase of studies and training people speak against ICAP, but eventually when they qualify, their views transform to those which this forum witnesses from Pracs and Kamran. This has to be understood. If one fails to grasp this idea, I don't have to argue with him.
As far as the matter of salaries for fresh ACCAs at UK is concerned, I may be totally wrong in quoting such figure of 18K pounds per annum since I am not at U.K. However, this is the feed back of some people known to me who have departed Pakistan recently for UK on the basis of their ACCA. One of extremely pro-ACCA member of this forum, in his post at another thread, confirmed this 18K figure at his own. I will search it and post the link for your review. Still, I feel your observation must be valid. I have already excluded UK and UAE from 80 countries being quoted by our fellows, although I am of the view that there are least opportunities at the moment.
Here I see some members overwhelmingly participate, respond and comment on the one sided prejudiced views of a specific class of ACCAs (I don't know what induces them to do it in that fashion) but whenever a reply or clarification is given by some body else to correct the things on record they declare it "useless ACCA v/s CA debate" and try to dilute the matter and get it escaped. I wonder what the dual policy they have and why they are feared of the issues getting explained. When some one will bring into question ICAP or CAs or local firms, the matter will definitely lead towards making the things clearer in the context of localized legislative framework and the facts on ground. Why it creates hitch to the ones who just want to endorse a baseless one sided view. No body can understand I guess.
Regards,
KAMRAN.